17 replies to this topic

[steel827]

I read where McFadden is struggling with the Raiders new run zone blocking. It has strangled CJIII. Who runs this successfully and what exactly is it?

Just my two pennies

[SaintsInDome2006]

I read where McFadden is struggling with the Raiders new run zone blocking. It has strangled CJIII. Who runs this successfully and what exactly is it?

Just my two pennies

I saw the same thing and this is teh ultimate if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Bruce Benedict]

The biggest challenges in a zone blocking scheme ought to be for the linemen, whose tasks become much more precise and athletic than in man blocking schemes.

The "challenges" a RB faces, relative to a traditional man blocking offense, lie mostly in the fact that he has to know the playbook rather than doing read-react-and-scamper type running. He needs to know where the linemen are going to be heading, needs to know when to cut, and needs to hit the hole that he hopes is there and explode through it. Because if he doesn't see it happening there and tries to reverse field and juke around Barry Sanders style, he can be in for a world of hurt. This is because linemen vacate entire zones of the defensive front to create a favorable matchup in exactly one zone of attack. The upshot is that if a RB piddles around somewhere OTHER than where the ZBS is aiming him, there can easily be four or five defenders ready to swamp him, completely unblocked.

Because of all this, zone blocking attacks can fail on two fronts.

1) If the RB is lazy, stubborn, and/or stupid. If a RB doesn't know what he has to do in each play, know it COLD, and perform it exactly, he'll probably get killed more often than not. This isn't an offense for freelancers. You have to hit a particular spot, at a particular time, and you have to hit it hard. All your protectors are going to be in that spot, so if you're somewhere else, OR there at the wrong moment, you're effed.

2) If the linemen aren't athletic enough to get to their zones of attack fast enough for the play to develop, the RB has nothing but an overmatched front line with no holes. This happens because a slow (or clueless) lineman has vacated his initial spot, has yet to arrive where he needs to be at the NEW point of attack, and as a result is blocking absolutely nobody when the play is supposed to be developing. Again, this spells doom for the RB, because he's essentially facing defenses that have more defenders than blockers at the point of attack every play.

I haven't watched enough of either team to know where these things stand w/r/t Tennesee and Oakland this year, but from years of exposure to both CJ and DMC, my educated guess is that Johnson doesn't have a focking clue what he's doing, and McFadden is getting killed because his blockers aren't up to the task.

[stonewall]

Pretty good analysis on this topic, specifically concerning McFadden here:


http://sports.espn.g...hardcount120921

[Bruce Benedict]

Actually, I'm changing my answer. Just going with no, it doesn't work.

[BufordT]

Just about every scheme works.....if you have good enough players. HTH

[Busted by the Feds]

Just about every scheme works.....if you have good enough players. HTH

Bingo !

[steel827]

The biggest challenges in a zone blocking scheme ought to be for the linemen, whose tasks become much more precise and athletic than in man blocking schemes.

The "challenges" a RB faces, relative to a traditional man blocking offense, lie mostly in the fact that he has to know the playbook rather than doing read-react-and-scamper type running. He needs to know where the linemen are going to be heading, needs to know when to cut, and needs to hit the hole that he hopes is there and explode through it. Because if he doesn't see it happening there and tries to reverse field and juke around Barry Sanders style, he can be in for a world of hurt. This is because linemen vacate entire zones of the defensive front to create a favorable matchup in exactly one zone of attack. The upshot is that if a RB piddles around somewhere OTHER than where the ZBS is aiming him, there can easily be four or five defenders ready to swamp him, completely unblocked.

Because of all this, zone blocking attacks can fail on two fronts.

1) If the RB is lazy, stubborn, and/or stupid. If a RB doesn't know what he has to do in each play, know it COLD, and perform it exactly, he'll probably get killed more often than not. This isn't an offense for freelancers. You have to hit a particular spot, at a particular time, and you have to hit it hard. All your protectors are going to be in that spot, so if you're somewhere else, OR there at the wrong moment, you're effed.

2) If the linemen aren't athletic enough to get to their zones of attack fast enough for the play to develop, the RB has nothing but an overmatched front line with no holes. This happens because a slow (or clueless) lineman has vacated his initial spot, has yet to arrive where he needs to be at the NEW point of attack, and as a result is blocking absolutely nobody when the play is supposed to be developing. Again, this spells doom for the RB, because he's essentially facing defenses that have more defenders than blockers at the point of attack every play.

I haven't watched enough of either team to know where these things stand w/r/t Tennesee and Oakland this year, but from years of exposure to both CJ and DMC, my educated guess is that Johnson doesn't have a focking clue what he's doing, and McFadden is getting killed because his blockers aren't up to the task.

Very well explained. I find it interesting that the Titans spend all that money on CJIII to become their franchise player and stubbornly put in a scheme that doesn't work. When you have a high level unique talent like McFadden and CJIII I would think you would put in a plan for success. Clearly in Tennessee it is not working and it is not looking good in Oakland.

Just my two pennies

[kriegz]

The zone scheme is getting crucified all over by fantasy owners this week....but look at Arian Foster and Marshawn Lynch who have excelled in this scheme....it is all situational....don't blame the scheme blame the team....i think the o-line in Oakland could use more time to adjust back to the scheme, and chris johnson is not made for zone blocking

[TD Ryan2]

DEN made it work and it's a copycat league - for years we watched DEN run behind an athletic (chop blocking?) line and Shanahan/Kubiak could plug in any RB and have success.
Obviously not every running back is cut out for the scheme and the supertalented ones may even be limited by it

[Serpent]

DEN made it work and it's a copycat league - for years we watched DEN run behind an athletic (chop blocking?) line and Shanahan/Kubiak could plug in any RB and have success.
Obviously not every running back is cut out for the scheme and the supertalented ones may even be limited by it

Yeah, the scheme works, it's been proven to work. But maybe only two teams can actually execute it (I believe Houston uses it under Kubiak and obviously they're wildly successful with it as well).

I guess the other coaches haven't figured out how to copy it.

Oh and a bit of a tangent, I always thought "copycat league" as some sort of negative or criticism was hilarious. In what field or profession don't people copy what works and try to further innovate it? If people didn't copy what works we wouldn't even have professions at all or fields of business or sports etc. There wouldn't be coaches, nobody would build on anything, and we'd still be banging rocks together and living in caves. I just don't get pointing that out. It's like saying water is wet, I mean, duh.

[RSersen]

Yeah, the scheme works, it's been proven to work. But maybe only two teams can actually execute it (I believe Houston uses it under Kubiak and obviously they're wildly successful with it as well).

I believe the Ravens also began zone blocking a couple seasons ago, and it doesn't seem to have negatively impacted Rice. The Steelers also made the switch, and their run game blows. It's all about personnel on the line and in the backfield.

[Reality]

Just about every scheme works.....if you have good enough players. HTH

Bingo

[Joey Gladstone]

It's been working for Lynch.

Just depends on the line, the back and the O-line coach.

[dolphin-g]

Miami is using it this year and its not hurting Reggie.

[Joey Gladstone]

If you have a back that dances at the line it won't work at all. One cut and and hit the gap. Lynch was sucking last year until Cable talked some sense into him.

[Ray_T]

i guess that's all fine and good, but the run game was good. one of the best in the league. why would you mess with it?

If the line was terrible, that's when you look to change things up.

I find this to be..... kinda crazy.

[KryptonKnights]

Denver used it to make Davis a star and when he couldn't go they just plugged in another RB and watched them put up league leading rushing totals. I think in the zone blocking scheme the success or failure lies more in the lineman you have on your team. Are they capable of running the scheme? If they are effective you can make a good back look great and make a great back pretty much unstoppable.