Dirty hits by Clark and Nakamura

[Durtee 0]

If the rules must be explained to you then they must, but no one can help it if you don't already know them.

 

Holmes: Holmes "caught" the ball in the air while in engaged with a defender. That contact meant that he had to come down with control of the ball and make a football move before he lost control. He did not therefore it was an incomplete pass.

 

McGahee: McGahee caught the ball while in open space (no defender contact) and then made a step (a football move) before he was hit by the defender and lost control of the ball.

 

It's really not that hard to grasp...for most.

Absent any "blind agenda" it's pretty cut and dry rulebook stuff. I knew Holmes' catch was no TD just as I knew McGahee's was a catch and fumble. But then, I'm objective and don't fall pray to seeing what I want to see, one way or the other.

 

you lost me at "I'm objective". I am assuming that you still have not watched the video. I noticed that you have still failed to explain exactly what reasoning I would have for being bias. Also, I understand the rules completely.. again you missed my point about the irregularity and technicality of the rules. Maybe you are not reading my posts? I guess no matter how many examples or scenarios I give you, you will never understand the point that I am making about some rules being too technical. I now notice that it is probably going to take at the very minimum construction paper and crayons to get you to understand, but unfortunately I have to work in the morning so peace out!

[lambert58 56]

You fockers argue all you want. I am just trying to figure out if Dan Rooney will wear 5 rings on one hand and 1 ring on the other or should he go with the 3 and 3 look. I personally think 4 on one and 2 on the other hand would be greta....

 

 

What were you talking about again?

[jgcrawfish 232]

hey tj and durtee, you know what happens when you stand up straight to tackle a 232 lb RB, you end up a highlight of a 232 lb RB running over you. Willis has 25+ lbs on Clark and both lowered the head, the problem was that clark lowered his head and lined up the right shoulder, and willis lowered his and lined up his left shoulder, which left both of their heads on the same side and both guys running nearly full steam. brutal yes, illegal hell no.

 

edit: and in fact, you whiny little biotches, pause that video at 11 seconds (of 26) and you'll see side of helmet to side of helmet and shoulder to shoulder. focking shut up.

[jgcrawfish 232]

You fockers argue all you want. I am just trying to figure out if Dan Rooney will wear 5 rings on one hand and 1 ring on the other or should he go with the 3 and 3 look. I personally think 4 on one and 2 on the other hand would be greta....

 

 

What were you talking about again?

 

5 on one hand and one for the other middle finger baby!!!

 

[DaveJ 0]

Wasn't a leading with his head... he obviously turned to get his shoulder into it. He got hit on the SIDE of his head from McGahee going straight in. Brutal and violent hit to say the least, but its not like it was a Jack Tatum spear TJ.. I KNOW you are familiar with that.

 

I suppose he could have turned around, and led with his should blades.

[Me_2006 14]

You really think he meant to lower his head and try to hurt McGahee in a game the Steelers were in control of? It's not like they took out AD on the opening drive or something. Just a freak play.

[Bill E. 666]

After watching the video you can see Clark on course to lead with his shoulder. McGahee was the last one to alter his course by turning his head slightly. It was an unfortunate collision. Seeing a player carted off the field took a lot of fun out of the victory for everyone, but it was not a dirty hit.

 

You did not see any celebration on the Steelers sideline after the hit. I doubt any Steelers player will celebrate the hit on a radio show or talk about a bounty on Mcgahee. Most players in the league have more class than that.

[Bill E. 666]

I noticed that you have still failed to explain exactly what reasoning I would have for being bias.....

 

God I hate the Steelers and their 50 Cent coach....

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Sweed's hit was legal. Clark's hit was legal. That was what we call a "physical" game. Both teams were hitting and that is why I like watching that type of game vs. the Cards/Iggles game.

 

Steelers won that game because they played better on defense, but because Roethlisberger managed the game much better than Flacco did. That play to Holmes showed that there was probably no way that you were going to stop the Steelers. It looked like Ben had a horseshoe up his ass in making that throw.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

You fockers argue all you want. I am just trying to figure out if Dan Rooney will wear 5 rings on one hand and 1 ring on the other or should he go with the 3 and 3 look. I personally think 4 on one and 2 on the other hand would be greta....

 

3 & 3. 1 on each middle finger and the rest; who cares.......

[RoadLizard 73]

You're right. Let's just encourage guys to knock their opponents senseless, then we can watch 6 hour games while they cart one guy after another off the field, and enjoy a playoff season of just whoever is left with their brains unscrambled. Who needs form tackles, it's all fun and games until one of the defenders destroys his own spine doing it. Player safety, who needs it!

 

Best post evah. 100% agree. Steelers games are already focking horrible to sit through so when you add cart-offs to the mix you have the most excruciatingly boring football ever prsented to human beings. Just awful.

[Dan 59]

Totally dirty. Clark is a dirty player. He was dirty when he was a Redskin and he's dirty now. That was a spear. No question.

 

You're apparently blind. I'm sorry for your condition.

[RoadLizard 73]

Sweed's hit was legal. Clark's hit was legal. That was what we call a "physical" game. Both teams were hitting and that is why I like watching that type of game vs. the Cards/Iggles game.

 

Well, you are about the only person that would prefer to watch punting and players being carted off the field as opposed to exciting football that the Cards and Eagles played. Ya know, POINTS being focking scored? 1st downs being achieved? Flow to the game instead of punt after punt, after commercial break, after timeout, after cart-off, after cart-off.

 

Why not just watch soccer? There is NO scoring or progress in that game either.... great for insomnia.

[Dan 59]

I'm blind? Maybe you should wipe the man juice off your homer goggles.

 

Sure. No problem. But when you suggest that it was "clearly a spear," you display that you did not see the play, because Clark clearly turned his body to lead with the shoulder. The contact between helmets struck the side of Ryan Clark's helmt, not the crown, where a spear connects.

 

You don't like Clark, obviously, and pre-disposed to looking for something dirty from him, and your comment made it obvious. So, if you're not blind, you're deliberate and baiting. You choose.

[redtodd 7]

It looked to me like he led with his shoulder, but the helmet to helmet contact was incidental.

 

I've never been a fan of McGahee, but it was scary to see him on the field so long. Hopefully he is OK.

[hines86rules 0]

Well, you are about the only person that would prefer to watch punting and players being carted off the field as opposed to exciting football that the Cards and Eagles played. Ya know, POINTS being focking scored? 1st downs being achieved? Flow to the game instead of punt after punt, after commercial break, after timeout, after cart-off, after cart-off.

 

Why not just watch soccer? There is NO scoring or progress in that game either.... great for insomnia.

Go play Madden.

[Dan 59]

I don't dislike Clark but I'm very familiar with his style of play.

 

Also, how do you lead with your shoulder but your helmet makes contact a good half second before your shoulder touches anything?

 

Did you watch the play, surfer? Really? The head sticks out over one's shoulders, so contact with that part of the body is normal when going forward. Why are you not on McGahee for lowering his head and shoulders to plow through Clark.

 

The helmets collided; that doesn't make it illegal, it means they collided. It's not like a kiss, where they can slide their heads to either side of one another. "A good half-second?" I think you're reaching, or you're timing off the slow-mo. Really, now, come on. That play was so fast on the collision, you could not possibly be sitting measuring the time. That's disingenuous and grasping.

 

Incidentally, Willie Parker was hit helmet-to-helmet earlier in the game by Bart Scott. Great hit, but not as jarring because they weren't both going full speed. And that one was with the crown of the helmet - still not illegal. The "dirtiest" hit came from a Ravens player ploughing into Roehtlisberger's back well after the ball was thrown. But let's not talk about that, because no one got taken off on a stretcher.

 

 

Folks really need to stop thinking that there is a dirty hit because someone got hurt. The angle hits just wrong, and any of these guys can seriously injured. Part of the risk in that game, isn't it?

[Dan 59]

Ok and you are going to call me blind? McGahee was lowering his head to plow into Clark??? It's called bracing for a hit. CLARK WAS HEAD HUNTING. There is no doubt in my mind that he was aiming for McGahee head. NONE.

 

Then I honestly believe that is what you wanted to see. McGahee may been bracing, I can see that interpretation, but he did lower his head, and that was part of the reason for that contact. I'm not sure what you expected Clark to do beyond what he did. Was he going for a big hit? Oh, heavens yes. Both of these teams were . . . all game long. But headhunting? We're just to disagree there. There is nothing to support it, unless you bring preconception. His own maneuvering, as well as where the game was at, the fact that he nearly knocked himself unconscious . . . nothing supports it.

[Dan 59]

Oh, and this, surfer . . . blind seems harsh, but it was specifically pointed at your reference to the play as a "spear." It was clearly not a spear, whatever else you want to reference it as.

[Dan 59]

Ok, homer. Enjoy your win.

 

Thanks. I will.

[Melissa Stark 1]

Did Steelers have a bounty out on McGahee

 

I'm sure we won't hear that come out, like after Mendenhall went out during the ravens game.

 

The hit looked clean, Clark clearly turned to lead with his shoulder, unfortunately, they hit head on.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Ok, homer. Enjoy your win.

 

Okay, enjoy your meds. Tell nurse Rachet the Steelers said 'hey'.

[Durtee 0]

 

so that makes me a Ravens fan? Or a McGahee fan?

[Durtee 0]

For the record, I did not say that Clark meant to hurt McGahee or that the play was intentionally dirty. I never said that the Steelers would have lost if the play was called a penalty, I never even said that the hit was illegal. All that I said is that it was unnecessary and borderline dirty. He was trying to make a highlight hit and he put a guy on a stretcher. I don't want to hear any nonsense like "this is football, not soccer", that was not a normal football tackle, the helmet to helmet may have been unintentional, but it was unnecessary. Not sure what else can be said, that's the way that I see it, but I am sure if I was a life long die hard Steelers fan, I might see it differently.

[FeelingMN 273]

Not a dirty hit. If it was, I'd think Ray or Reed or someone would have flared up about the hit. Are there two teams that dislike each other as much as Ravens/Steelers?

 

A dirty hit in the biggest game of the year, at the most crucial point in the game, involving two heated rivals should have ignited some tempers.

 

It didn't.

 

By the way, there's a reason why half these guys won't be able to walk in about 20 years. It's a brutal friggin' game. But they all sign up to play it and understand the risks involved.

 

It was a brutual/maybe even a dumb hit. But it wasn't dirty.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

I will. Even though I have no focking idea what you're talking about.

 

Damn, you must have visited ol' Sparky for the electro-shock treatment then. The woman you take on is going to light up

like a pinball machine and payoff is silver dollars.

 

If you still can't catch the reference, someone will help you out.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Does it involve an old unfunny TV show that has nothing to do with anything in this thread?

 

No, the book/movie 'One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest'. As far as having anything to do with this thread, well there are some medically induced diatribes here so........yeah it's relevant.

[parrot 789]

Who wants a bet Clark gets fined or not?

 

He didn't get fined on the Welker hit so there's no way he should get fined on this one. At least McGahee had the ball.

[parrot 789]

The Welker hit was hard but not helmet to helmet. Not really the same at all.

 

Welker was much more defenseless though. As others have said, the hit ended up helmet to helmet but Clark didn't really lead with his helmet. I don't see this one drawing a fine.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Well, you are about the only person that would prefer to watch punting and players being carted off the field as opposed to exciting football that the Cards and Eagles played. Ya know, POINTS being focking scored? 1st downs being achieved? Flow to the game instead of punt after punt, after commercial break, after timeout, after cart-off, after cart-off.

 

Why not just watch soccer? There is NO scoring or progress in that game either.... great for insomnia.

 

There was scoring, there was hitting, and it was a hard fought game. This is football. If you want a lot of scoring with no contact, then I hear ballet is nice.

[KSB2424 3,082]

Clark is a dirty player. He head hunts constantly. I hate the guy.

 

With that said, I think the hit on Willis was legal.

[Franknbeans 46]

Ok, homer. Enjoy your win.

and enjoy the Steelers sixth Superbowl title

 

[Skinny_Bastard 154]

I didn't care who won the Ravens/Steelers game, but that just digusted me.

 

I don't care what Phil Simms says, that is not a legal hit. That is unnecessary roughness all the way. Simms is an idiot, announcers will go along with anything that is ruled on the field and find a way to justify it.

 

We see it all the time. Guys get hit helmet to helmet and they don't call it on the field. It's only later in the week when the fine is handed down that anything is done. That's why players will continue to spear opponents with no regard for player safety, because they might get fined but they aren't going to lose 15 yards and their coaches will be happy. In this case, McGahee fumbled because he was probably unconscious before he hit the ground. They call that correctly, they keep the ball and 15 yards, they have a chance. Instead Pitt gets it back with 2:30 left, game over, and who knows when McGahee will be ok.

 

Pull your heads out of your ass and un-staple your flags from your pockets, ref.

 

You're an idiot.

Watch the replay again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1ssVchGUm0

 

Clark lead the hit with his shoulder pats. It was pretty clear. It was beyond legal.

[JetsFan28 0]

Without a doubt, a dirty hit.

[pittnthat 0]

Steeler fans, we should know by now that on message boards no one likes to give credit. There always has to be a reason that a team won and someone always gets cheated. Most fans just want to cause drama to why your team wins and they lose. Let's not get into pissing matches with trolls.

We are 1 win away from going from being tied for the best NFL franchise ever,to owning that title all by ourselves. Let's try to stay classy with the usual village crazies on fftoday. Here we go!

[bintine 0]

Clark was tired and didnt want to play anymore so he decided to go purposely for a full speed helemt to helmet hit and knock himself out. Grow up this is football and ACCIDENTAL helmet to helmet hits are going to happen.

[JetsFan28 0]

Steeler fans, we should know by now that on message boards no one likes to give credit. There always has to be a reason that a team won and someone always gets cheated. Most fans just want to cause drama to why your team wins and they lose. Let's not get into pissing matches with trolls.

We are 1 win away from going from being tied for the best NFL franchise ever,to owning that title all by ourselves. Let's try to stay classy with the usual village crazies on fftoday. Here we go!

Who got cheated? One of your players caused someone to get carted off on a stretcher cause of a dirty hit

[t.j 35]

You're an idiot.

Watch the replay again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1ssVchGUm0

 

Clark lead the hit with his shoulder pats. It was pretty clear. It was beyond legal.

 

You're wrong that he led the hit with his shoulder pads. Pause the video at 53 seconds, as close as you can before the hit. First contact is clealy between the crown of Clark's helmet, and McGahee's earhole. (http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t193/similar222/Clark_McGahee.png) The fact that shoulder-to-shoulder contact followed is entirely irrelevant, the damage had already been done.

 

Not all hits involving two helmets are the same. Contact with the defensive player's facemask is taught and acceptable. Contact with the crown of the helmet where the player launches himself is the big thing I have a problem with. People can complain about other types of hits if they like. This is the type of hit though that I think is particularly dangerous.

 

McGahee did lower his head, in an defensive and reactionary way. He caught the ball, looked at #57, turned, saw Clark, and reacted out of surprise. Don't watch it on slow-mo only, it happened very fast. He certainly was not trained to scrunch up like that. You're supposed to keep your neck straight or bent slightly back, the neck is most vulnerable when bent forward. Clark had the full force of his body going through his spine culminating with the crown of his helmet. That's why it's called spearing, because the body and head are in a straight line and moving straight ahead like a spear. McGahee's head was just out there with no momentum behind it. If he had not made this reactionary adjustment with his head, he might have been better off, but he still probably would have taken the crown of Clark's helmet on the chin, which is also very dangerous.

 

Do I think Clark intended to take McGahee out of the game? Certainly not. I believe 99% of players out there, including Clark probably, don't want to see anyone hurt. But as long as officials do not throw flags on these types of plays, and occassional fines are the only repercussion, players will continue to use the crown of the crown of their helmet as a weapon without regard for the safety of the opponent. You can call it an "accident" if you like, but it's a serious one that happens too often because players don't have enough incentive to make an effort to avoid it.

[t.j 35]

To those parroting Phil Simms' inadequate explanation that there is no specific rule for helmet to helmet contact other than for a QB or defenseless WR...

 

NFL Digest of Rules: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries

 

Summary of Penalties

15 Yards

Any player who uses the top of his helmet unnecessarily.

 

What else would this mean? Using the top of the helmet to cook eggs on a hot day?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

To those parroting Phil Simms' inadequate explanation that there is no specific rule for helmet to helmet contact other than for a QB or defenseless WR...

 

NFL Digest of Rules: http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries

What else would this mean? Using the top of the helmet to cook eggs on a hot day?

 

That is for spearing in which the guy is down on the ground.

 

Using the top of the helmet during the tackling of a ballcarrier is within the rules (i.e. not unnecessarily). That is what Simms and the referees are talking about.