NFL Mock Draft - Commentary Thread

[yostevo 0]

oh definately. I wouldn't argue that most often they come from the first few rounds. Altho oddly enough I was looking at first round alone VS all other rounds so im more interested in that 16 of 34 you mentioned.

 

yeah those QB numbers are about what I expected as well..

 

so idk how to explain it... i guess probably that there are ONLY 32 starting QB's in the league where as even though only 34 defenders made the pro bowl there are tons and tons of impact starting defenders in the league. Some may have just missed out on the pro bowl themselves.

 

kind of hard to simply compare pro bowl defenders with starting QB's. A better comparison would be starting QB's and starting defenders by %'s.

 

(not asking you to undertake that )

 

No thanks.

 

Actually I wasn't trying to compare pro bowl defenders to QBs. I wanted to show evidence suggesting that most pro bowl defenders are taken early and not necessarily system players from outta nowhere. That's all.

 

I showed the QB stat just to reiterate that almost half of the starting QBs in league were not even picked in the first three rounds of a draft. If anything, they tend to come from outta nowhere moreso than the defensive players as you suggested IMO.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

No thanks.

 

Actually I wasn't trying to compare pro bowl defenders to QBs. I wanted to show evidence suggesting that most pro bowl defenders are taken early and not necessarily system players from outta nowhere. That's all.

 

I showed the QB stat just to reiterate that almost half of the starting QBs in league were not even picked in the first three rounds of a draft. If anything, they tend to come from outta nowhere moreso than the defensive players as you suggested IMO.

 

right, but thats where comparing pro bowlers to simple starters is flawed IMO. comparing 2008's cream of the crop defenders with just starting QB's I think skews the argument in favor of QB's.

 

When you take into account a larger sample of starting defenders (because alot more than just the pro bowlers have an impact) I think you'll see more of what I was getting at.

 

edit: just a quick glance.. only looking at pro bowlers leaves out guys like Bart Scott (undrafted) and Adalius Thomas (6th round) who are impactful defenders and coincidentally come from one of the two systems I named when suggesting systems produce defenders.

A quick glance at those two systems shows guys like Jarret Johnson of Baltimore (4th round) and Larry Foote of Pitt (4th). Also out of the Steelers system was Clark Haggans (5th).... even Joey Porter was only a 3rd rounder.

[yostevo 0]

right, but thats where comparing pro bowlers to simple starters is flawed IMO. comparing 2008's cream of the crop defenders with just starting QB's I think skews the argument in favor of QB's.

 

When you take into account a larger sample of starting defenders (because alot more than just the pro bowlers have an impact) I think you'll see more of what I was getting at.

 

edit: just a quick glance.. only looking at pro bowlers leaves out guys like Bart Scott (undrafted) and Adalius Thomas (6th round) who are impactful defenders and coincidentally come from one of the two systems I named when suggesting systems produce defenders.

A quick glance at those two systems shows guys like Jarret Johnson of Baltimore (4th round) and Larry Foote of Pitt (4th). Also out of the Steelers system was Clark Haggans (5th).... even Joey Porter was only a 3rd rounder.

 

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I guess you could comb through the latter round QBs and scrape together a list of former pro bowlers or on the cusp pro bowlers that are impact QBs as well but your points are very valid.

[ArnieBragg 1]

I like the Oher pick. Everyone's concerns over his ability to learn are bogus IMO.

 

The Redskins have plenty of needs - OT, LB, DT. Little Danny and Vinny C. shouldn't be able to screw it up too much

 

My hope is one of those OT drop and Oher would be fantastic

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Name a few more.

 

Also

 

Seymour as a prospect >>>> Jackson as a prospect.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you said a 3-4 DE this high would be crazy. I named Seymour being picked 6th overall. So your comeback is name a few more?

 

Seymour may have been > Jackson as a prospect, but this isn't exactly the strongest draft either. We've been talking about guys like Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin.....how do they stack up to DE's taken in past drafts? It speaks to the weakness of the draft as a whole probably since we're considering tweeners like this in the top ten. At the very least, Tyson Jackson stands apart from the rest because his God given size makes him a better fit for DE. And he had a pretty good college career at one of the best football schools in the country, playing the best football competition in the country most Saturdays.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you said a 3-4 DE this high would be crazy. I named Seymour being picked 6th overall. So your comeback is name a few more?

 

Seymour may have been > Jackson as a prospect, but this isn't exactly the strongest draft either. We've been talking about guys like Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin.....how do they stack up to DE's taken in past drafts? It speaks to the weakness of the draft as a whole probably since we're considering tweeners like this in the top ten. At the very least, Tyson Jackson stands apart from the rest because his God given size makes him a better fit for DE. And he had a pretty good college career at one of the best football schools in the country, playing the best football competition in the country most Saturdays.

 

 

3-4 defensive ends deserve as much consideration in the first half of round 1 as anyone if a team is trying to build a 3-4 and the player in question is good enough... The Broncos, Packers and Chiefs are all swithcing to a 3-4 this season and I really don't expect Jackson to go any later than 18th to Denver.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you said a 3-4 DE this high would be crazy. I named Seymour being picked 6th overall. So your comeback is name a few more?

 

Seymour may have been > Jackson as a prospect, but this isn't exactly the strongest draft either. We've been talking about guys like Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin.....how do they stack up to DE's taken in past drafts? It speaks to the weakness of the draft as a whole probably since we're considering tweeners like this in the top ten. At the very least, Tyson Jackson stands apart from the rest because his God given size makes him a better fit for DE. And he had a pretty good college career at one of the best football schools in the country, playing the best football competition in the country most Saturdays.

 

 

Yea I said it would be a crazy reach based on 2 things. Jackson's ability along with the position he plays. Seymour is a reach for his position but based on his talent it made him worth it. He was a staple to championship defenses.

 

At this point as a Packers fan, I would absolutly hate Tyson Jackson at 9. He doesn't help the pass rush, and DE is on of the more plentaful positions they have. Cullen Jenkins, Jolly, Harrell (he will play both NT and DE if healthy) and Kampan can always be used here if needed. At NT they basically have Pickett. At OLB they have Kampman (who is a ? at that position) Poppinga? J. Thompson? Really who is going to rush the passer?

 

Tyson Jackson is a solid fit in a 3-4, I would like the pick if they move down. But at 9 it is a reach. In no mock have I ever seen him go before Denver.

 

So yea I guess I will ask you to name more. A kicker is a reach in the 1st round, but I would ask you to name more than Sebatian. Just because the big Polish man was picked in the 1st round doesn't mean that position isn't a reach.

 

Inside the first 10 picks you want a real impact player. If Jackson had Seymour's skills it would be different. E. Brown and Maybin do not have to match up too other DEs in past drafts because they wouldn't play DE for the Packers. I think they stack up quite well as OLB. I think Everette Brown can be a 4-3 DE in certain situations (like the Bills). Both did play 4-3 DE in college.

 

Both can be much bigger impact players than Tyson Jackson. It is just my opinion that Jackson is a reach inside the top 10, even more so to the Packers, who NEED pass rush, and have 2 extemley talented players to choose from to fill a OLB need in their new 3-4 scheme.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

is this thing dead or what?

[throttlers 0]

Maybe it's just slowed down because of the holiday weekend.

[throttlers 0]

I'm thinking Cushing makes the most sense for the Texans here. How long do we wait for him to pick?

 

As a side note, I don't think there is any way Moreno lasts this long in the real draft. He's gonna be a top 10 pick and possibly top 5.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I'm thinking Cushing makes the most sense for the Texans here. How long do we wait for him to pick?

 

As a side note, I don't think there is any way Moreno lasts this long in the real draft. He's gonna be a top 10 pick and possibly top 5.

I think that we figured that this would be picked up again on Monday.

 

Cushing is a possibility here.

 

Moreno is not a top 10 (or 5) player. He might be in the top 15.

[Super Cubs 132]

I'm courious to see which way hellothere goes with the Texans pick. Looks like some of you are thinking Cushings, but they could go with Clay Matthews. Uncle Bruce Matthews is a O-Line coach for the Texans. I think either are good pick because we need a OLB. The problem is the Texans have been addressing the LB posistion with the signing of June and a few others. Then on the other hand we still don't know if Dunta Robinson is 100% or if they will be able to come to terms on a long term deal. Vantae Davis might be a good pick here as well. If he's not to big of a head case. IMO we can't go wrong with a OLB or corner. I was hoping Malcom Jenkins would slip past NO.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

I'm thinking Cushing makes the most sense for the Texans here. How long do we wait for him to pick?

 

As a side note, I don't think there is any way Moreno lasts this long in the real draft. He's gonna be a top 10 pick and possibly top 5.

 

to who?

 

I think the reality is not too many teams have pressing needs at RB.

 

Lions? maybe but at 1 overall?

Rams? no

Chiefs? no

Bengals, Seahwaks, Browns sure but will they really pass on the Raji's, Orakpo's and Monroe's of the draft?

Raiders? no

Jags? no

Packers? they don't think so

49ers? no

Bills? no

Broncos? I doubt it

Redskins? no

Saints? don't think they are fine with Bush and Pierre Thomas?

Texans? maybe if they want someone to split time

Chargers? nah kept Sproles and LT

Jets? Its a possibility but already have TJ and Washington

 

After that theres a bunch of teams that could pick one up based on need or luxury like the Eagles

but the Vikings, Pats, Falcons and Dolphins surely wont. Neither will the Giants Titans or Steelers.

[kutulu 1,545]

Maybe it's just slowed down because of the holiday weekend.

 

I was away for the weekend...we can put in a clock come Monday.

[throttlers 0]

to who?

 

I think the reality is not too many teams have pressing needs at RB.

 

Lions? maybe but at 1 overall?

Rams? no

Chiefs? no

Bengals, Seahwaks, Browns sure but will they really pass on the Raji's, Orakpo's and Monroe's of the draft?

Raiders? no

Jags? no

Packers? they don't think so

49ers? no

Bills? no

Broncos? I doubt it

Redskins? no

Saints? don't think they are fine with Bush and Pierre Thomas?

Texans? maybe if they want someone to split time

Chargers? nah kept Sproles and LT

Jets? Its a possibility but already have TJ and Washington

 

After that theres a bunch of teams that could pick one up based on need or luxury like the Eagles

but the Vikings, Pats, Falcons and Dolphins surely wont. Neither will the Giants Titans or Steelers.

 

 

A lot of teams draft best player and not positional need. Then there is always a chance a team moves up to get him. Even if no one moves up, I could see a few teams taking him in the top 10.

 

Lions and Rams - probably not

Chiefs - I wouldn't rule it out completely

Bengals - Very good possability. The word is he is high on their board. He worked out for them about a week ago.

Seahawks - very strong possability

Browns - another good possability but I think he's gone by now

Raiders - Who knows what this screwy organization will do

Jags - Probably not, but they did lose Fred Taylor and you need more than 1 good back these days.

Packers - Nah

49ers - New coaches like to bring in ther own impact players.

 

After the top 10

Bills - Probably not, but with Lynch's off-field issues they might want to bring in some competition.

Broncos - Again, a new coach and no sure fire starter at RB.

Redskins - The Redskins aren't know for planning ahead, but Portis is 28 and hasn't ben exactly thrilled with the team.

 

 

Moreno is an immediate impact player even if he is splitting time. I think the Bengals, Seahawks or Browns will take him or someone moves up.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

I'm thinking Cushing makes the most sense for the Texans here. How long do we wait for him to pick?

 

As a side note, I don't think there is any way Moreno lasts this long in the real draft. He's gonna be a top 10 pick and possibly top 5.

 

That is crazy.

[throttlers 0]

That is crazy.

 

What's crazy about it?

[yostevo 0]

That is crazy.

 

I don't think it's "crazy" but it's probably not likely. RBs are just too valuable in today's game to have the #1 RB on the board fall that far.

 

Funnier things have happened on draft day though that's why it's an interesting drama to watch.

[throttlers 0]

RBs are just too valuable in today's game to have the #1 RB on the board fall that far.

 

Exactly

[listen2me 23 1,541]

What's crazy about it?

 

If he sneaks into teh top 10 it would be mind blowing. You say maybe top 5....and that is just crazy. Which mock have you seen him go that high? Have any guys like Mayock and Kiper had him going that high? Has there even been a buzz to shoot him up that far?

 

AP went #7 and was a dynamic RB. Moreno's grade isn't nearly that high. No one considers him a top prospect.

 

Anything could happen, but from all info that we the "watchers" can find, none of it points to him being a top 10 pick, let alone top 5.

 

Just curious to where you get this from? Unless it is just an opinion. Maybe you are just a Georgia homer.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

I don't think it's "crazy" but it's probably not likely. RBs are just too valuable in today's game to have the #1 RB on the board fall that far.

 

Funnier things have happened on draft day though that's why it's an interesting drama to watch.

 

Sure it can happen. But he isn't an elite prospect at this point and there is no real place for him in the top 10. RBs aren't that valuable at all, with a good line any RB can do well. Moreno just isn't a top 10 prospect. Everyone on this board has no clue what will happen, but from everything we can gather there is nothing that points to him being a top 10 player.

 

The crazy part is on the top 5. I would bet my house on that. He isn't even the consensus top RB is a weak RB class.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Exactly

 

How are that that valuable when you have more and more teams using 2 RBs? You don't take a guy in the top 10 that is going to split carries. They are valuable when you talk about AP and guys that can carry an offense. Moreno isn't that guy at all.

 

I'm just curious to where you get this from. Or where you have heard him maybe going in the top 10? I have never heard nor saw him going top 10 all offseason.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, you said a 3-4 DE this high would be crazy. I named Seymour being picked 6th overall. So your comeback is name a few more?

 

Seymour may have been > Jackson as a prospect, but this isn't exactly the strongest draft either. We've been talking about guys like Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin.....how do they stack up to DE's taken in past drafts? It speaks to the weakness of the draft as a whole probably since we're considering tweeners like this in the top ten. At the very least, Tyson Jackson stands apart from the rest because his God given size makes him a better fit for DE. And he had a pretty good college career at one of the best football schools in the country, playing the best football competition in the country most Saturdays.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhNA...o&type=lgns

 

This link is in my favor with where they rank Jackson. I just came across it. I am not saying this is the tell all. But it just shows you that Jackson isn't even the consensus best 5 Tech DE.

 

I think there is more possibility of him going top 10 than Moreno, but I would hate the Packers to reach on him while bringing in no real pass rush.

[yostevo 0]

How are that that valuable when you have more and more teams using 2 RBs? You don't take a guy in the top 10 that is going to split carries. They are valuable when you talk about AP and guys that can carry an offense. Moreno isn't that guy at all.

 

I'm just curious to where you get this from. Or where you have heard him maybe going in the top 10? I have never heard nor saw him going top 10 all offseason.

The RBs as a whole are the running game which makes each component a necessity. I.E Reggie Bush. By himself, their running game is not going to flourish so that component back can be just as valuable if not more.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

The RBs as a whole are the running game which makes each component a necessity. I.E Reggie Bush. By himself, their running game is not going to flourish so that component back can be just as valuable if not more.

I think that the dynamics have changed and teams are going more with RBBC than having a premier back carrying the full load.

 

Moreno is not a franchise RB. Sorry, but he isn't. Too many questions. Wells is as highly touted, if not moreso, and is often ranked higher than Moreno, who is looking like a top 20 player, but not a top 10.

[Super Cubs 132]

The RBs as a whole are the running game which makes each component a necessity. I.E Reggie Bush. By himself, their running game is not going to flourish so that component back can be just as valuable if not more.

I understand what your saying, but If your going to a 2 RB system I don't think you would want to send the money to take a RB early. Remember this is the NFL not fantasy football you don't have to get a RB in the 1st round.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

The fact that its a "weaker" RB class, along with the lack of need for RB's at the right spots leads me to believe he could easily fall out of the top 20. I actually have Wells going higher in my mock.

 

I honestly think the teams that might want a RB have bigger holes to fill that are also better filled where they happen to draft.

 

A trade up is always possible and that would make this whole debate a moot point but if each team keeps their picks I only see 2-3 chances for one of the back to go in the top 15.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhNA...o&type=lgns

 

This link is in my favor with where they rank Jackson. I just came across it. I am not saying this is the tell all. But it just shows you that Jackson isn't even the consensus best 5 Tech DE.

 

I think there is more possibility of him going top 10 than Moreno, but I would hate the Packers to reach on him while bringing in no real pass rush.

 

wait wait you post 1 analysis and because of that he isn't the consensus top 5 technique? consensus is simply a majority opinion. It isn't broken by 1 case.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhNA...o&type=lgns

 

This link is in my favor with where they rank Jackson. I just came across it. I am not saying this is the tell all. But it just shows you that Jackson isn't even the consensus best 5 Tech DE.

 

I think there is more possibility of him going top 10 than Moreno, but I would hate the Packers to reach on him while bringing in no real pass rush.

 

Rick Gosselin's first mock of the year has Green Bay taking Jackson 9th overall. There are a lot of different opinions. Is the writer of the article you linked as highly regarded as Gosselin?

[listen2me 23 1,541]

wait wait you post 1 analysis and because of that he isn't the consensus top 5 technique? consensus is simply a majority opinion. It isn't broken by 1 case.

 

It isn't broken. But he offered 1 instance of a 3-4 DE being picked high with Seymour (there are most likely a couple more) If Jackson is to be a value in the top 10 he better be "the stud"at 3-4 DE. He very well may have the majority of people saying he is the best 3-4 DE, but that doesn't make him a dynamic player. His upside is minimal, he is what he is. A solid player. Can fit in at 3-4 end, but not in any way a game changer, and certainly not the pass rusher Seymour is/was. The Packers #1 concern is pass rush.

 

I see in no way why it would be wise to take Jackson in the top 10. I am not saying someone can't have a different opinion. But to me 3-4 End isn't a position that is drafted high, and Jackson doesn't present any great "can't miss" skills that would make him be value inside the top 10.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Rick Gosselin's first mock of the year has Green Bay taking Jackson 9th overall. There are a lot of different opinions. Is the writer of the article you linked as highly regarded as Gosselin?

 

I don't know?

 

It was just a point made to show that Jackson isn't an elite prospect. And some (maybe few) do not think he is the best at his position.

 

I would just be very disappointed with Jackson as the Packers 1st round pick at #9. But that is just my opinion, I have stated my reasons.

[yostevo 0]

I think that the dynamics have changed and teams are going more with RBBC than having a premier back carrying the full load.

 

Moreno is not a franchise RB. Sorry, but he isn't. Too many questions. Wells is as highly touted, if not moreso, and is often ranked higher than Moreno, who is looking like a top 20 player, but not a top 10.

 

I'm not saying he is, and yes it's very obvious that most teams are going to a RBBC. I don't think it necessarily lessens the needs for RBs though. In fact, RBs could be in more demand now because of the RBBC philosophy.

 

I'm not trying to argue that he'll be a top 15 pick. Alls I'm trying to say is that even in a weak RB year, the position is still important enough to teams that 2nd tiered talents such as Moreno could still go fairly early in a draft.

[yostevo 0]

I understand what your saying, but If your going to a 2 RB system I don't think you would want to send the money to take a RB early. Remember this is the NFL not fantasy football you don't have to get a RB in the 1st round.

 

Thanks captain obvious.

 

As I mentioned, I'm not even saying that Moreno should go in the top 15, I'm saying he could due to the unpredicatability of the draft and RB being a priority position. That's all.

[kmbryant09 1]

Thanks captain obvious.

 

As I mentioned, I'm not even saying that Moreno should go in the top 15, I'm saying he could due to the unpredicatability of the draft and RB being a priority position. That's all.

 

Thats not really what it sounded like, IDK if it was u or someone else who ran down a list of teams and commented that the Bengals have Moreno ranked really high IF Moreno lasts that long...

 

Bottom line is teams are realizing that after the few elite RBs in the league (the AP's, MJDs, the LT of the past, etc.), especially in a RBBC, the talent becomes very steady. Meaning the difference between the 15th most talented RB and the 25th most talented RB is not game-changing. This is applied to the RBs coming out of college, most of these RBs aren't MUCH of an upgrade over the RBs that most teams already have, at least not as much as an update as say, one of the top Offensive Tackles, or LineBackers, or Cornerbacks in the draft.

 

Also, especially in this draft, there is no clear cut prospect among the RBs this year. Some like Moreno, some like Wells, some like McCoy, I personally like D. Brown. If a team passes on Moreno in the first round, they are likely to get a serviceable RB as late as round 3 or 4, giving them no need to reach for someone like Moreno.

[kmbryant09 1]

My bad YoStevo, I see the posts that I was referring to weren't from you, rather from that Throttlers guy...I apologize.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

It isn't broken. But he offered 1 instance of a 3-4 DE being picked high with Seymour (there are most likely a couple more) If Jackson is to be a value in the top 10 he better be "the stud"at 3-4 DE. He very well may have the majority of people saying he is the best 3-4 DE, but that doesn't make him a dynamic player. His upside is minimal, he is what he is. A solid player. Can fit in at 3-4 end, but not in any way a game changer, and certainly not the pass rusher Seymour is/was. The Packers #1 concern is pass rush.

 

I see in no way why it would be wise to take Jackson in the top 10. I am not saying someone can't have a different opinion. But to me 3-4 End isn't a position that is drafted high, and Jackson doesn't present any great "can't miss" skills that would make him be value inside the top 10.

 

i was simply wondering why you posted 1 opinion that he was not the top 3-4 end and proclaimed he was not the consensus best.. he clearly still is even if a few opinions go against that wisdom. Thats all.

 

I understand the rest of your argument and that you feel he isn't worth a pick that high, but don't try to claim he is not even the consensus best 5 technique in the draft just to enhance your point.

 

I don't know how I feel about Jackson going that high.. I think if a team evaluates him as the best 3-4 end and that is a need their team has, especially with many teams converting to the 3-4.. then he might just be worth that pick especially compared to other options. But i wont at all be surprised to see him slip and do agree with a number of your opinions.

[throttlers 0]

Well, I guess I'm just more of a believer of Moreno as an NFL talent than most of you. I think he is significantly better than the other RBs in this draft and is a better football player than some of the other projected picks. Is it possible he falls out of the top 20? Sure it is. Anything is possible. I think it's highly unlikely though.

[kutulu 1,545]

Sent hello an email yesterday. We'll give him till noon EST and then I'll ask for suggestions for Houston's pick.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Well, I guess I'm just more of a believer of Moreno as an NFL talent than most of you. I think he is significantly better than the other RBs in this draft and is a better football player than some of the other projected picks. Is it possible he falls out of the top 20? Sure it is. Anything is possible. I think it's highly unlikely though.

How is the weather in Athens these days, anyway?

[throttlers 0]

How is the weather in Athens these days, anyway?

 

Nope, I'm not a Georgia homer.