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Cruzer

**Golf Talk** thread

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Congrats on the great week. But I have to call you out on using the word "great" to describe Richard Matvichuk. I am sure he's cool as hell and all that, but the dude averaged maybe 3 goals and 15 points a year in his career. Servicable is probably more like it. That being said, hockey players generally speaking can hit the fock out of a golf ball.

 

When the Stars won the Cup, he was one half of our top defensive line. Hatcher and Matvichuk when we needed to shut someone down. Zubov and Sydor when we needed a goal.

 

Being a top player on a title team = local greatness. :thumbsup:

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Ryder Cup week as well :headbanger:

 

Prolly my favorite golf week of the year outside of the Masters :thumbsup:

 

Just hope they have better outfits this time around.

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Prolly not so much up north, but here in the south golf season never really actually ends - played 27 both last Sat. & Sun........Anyways, with the new year underway - anyone going with any new sticks or anything? Besides falcon of course.

 

I'm rolling with 2 new Adams A12 hybrids - a 4 & 3. Also rolling with new wedges - loving the hell out of my new Cleveland 588 58 degree. Stickig with the same ball - Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

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Prolly not so much up north, but here in the south golf season never really actually ends - played 27 both last Sat. & Sun........Anyways, with the new year underway - anyone going with any new sticks or anything? Besides falcon of course.

 

I'm rolling with 2 new Adams A12 hybrids - a 4 & 3. Also rolling with new wedges - loving the hell out of my new Cleveland 588 58 degree. Stickig with the same ball - Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

I love playing the yellow balls! I used to get ragged on, but not anymore. Nice walking up to a green and knowing exactly which ball is yours. I also can see it better in the air, and my eyes need all the help they can get these days. I also play the Adams hybrids, really like them.

 

I am finally trying to address my pathetic short game and taking "Ben Hogan's Short Game Simplified" book to heart, as my son gave it to me as a Christmas present because he got tired of hearing me ###### about my short game all the time. All ready seeing some positive results. It really sucks being a pretty decent ball striker and screwing up big time every time I miss a green.

 

I always get fired up for golf this time of year through the Masters...I am hoping to drop my handicap a few strokes and keep going strong all year this year. I have a feeling that if I realize short game success I will stay enthusiastic. I know it will lead to an immediate drop in my handicap.

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I love playing the yellow balls! I used to get ragged on, but not anymore. Nice walking up to a green and knowing exactly which ball is yours. I also can see it better in the air, and my eyes need all the help they can get these days.

Omg, they are so easy to see like you say - both in the air and on the ground. Tell you another added bonus of the Z-Star - it is every bit as soft and spins as much as the regular Pro-V1, but it's also so much more durable. I can literally play 3 rounds with one with no problems at all.

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Prolly not so much up north, but here in the south golf season never really actually ends - played 27 both last Sat. & Sun........Anyways, with the new year underway - anyone going with any new sticks or anything? Besides falcon of course.

 

I'm rolling with 2 new Adams A12 hybrids - a 4 & 3. Also rolling with new wedges - loving the hell out of my new Cleveland 588 58 degree. Stickig with the same ball - Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

 

I hadn't played in about 6 weeks. Got the new sticks and went out last week and put up a disaster round. Could barely make contact with the ball.

 

What did people do before smart phones? I spent the past few days video taping my swing and doing research. My backswing had gotten so flat that I was coming into the ball way too shallow. Often times leading to the extremely rare "shallow fat" shot. And when I did hit the ball clean I was hitting a push.

 

So now I'm working hard to keep the club out in front of me on the backswing, and I'm trying to feel like I am swinging out to in. Granted, even when exaggerating this, looking at the video I'm still dropping a bit below the line and swinging in to out. But not neary as insanely as I was.

 

The tips I have found say the problem I am having is more common to better players. So that's an ego kiss. But it's extremely encouraging when you can diagnose a problem with your own eyes, find the exact issue being diagnosed by Hank Haney in a video lesson online, and come up with a fix. It's got me excited to get back out there this weekend, whereas I walked off the course last weekend thinking I sucked, my new clubs were bunk, and that I didn't even really want to play again anytime soon.

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I hadn't played in about 6 weeks. Got the new sticks and went out last week and put up a disaster round. Could barely make contact with the ball.

I could literally go longer w/out sex and beer than I could playing - no way I could make it 6 weeks..... But stick with it - new clubs are not what usually takes time to adjust to, it's the new shafts. Once you get the kick points in line with your body/swing - the club heads will start to do their magic.

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I love playing the yellow balls! I used to get ragged on, but not anymore. Nice walking up to a green and knowing exactly which ball is yours. I also can see it better in the air, and my eyes need all the help they can get these days. I also play the Adams hybrids, really like them.

 

I am finally trying to address my pathetic short game and taking "Ben Hogan's Short Game Simplified" book to heart, as my son gave it to me as a Christmas present because he got tired of hearing me ###### about my short game all the time. All ready seeing some positive results. It really sucks being a pretty decent ball striker and screwing up big time every time I miss a green.

 

I always get fired up for golf this time of year through the Masters...I am hoping to drop my handicap a few strokes and keep going strong all year this year. I have a feeling that if I realize short game success I will stay enthusiastic. I know it will lead to an immediate drop in my handicap.

NXT Tour S come in Yellow... usually go with them or the bridgestone B330 RX...

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NXT Tour S come in Yellow..

A really good ball, played it for about a month when they came out. This thing really flies and runs out a mile, but it ended up being a a bit too hard and lacked the spin I wanted around the greens. For the money though, hard to beat.

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I hadn't played in about 6 weeks. Got the new sticks and went out last week and put up a disaster round. Could barely make contact with the ball.

 

What did people do before smart phones? I spent the past few days video taping my swing and doing research. My backswing had gotten so flat that I was coming into the ball way too shall. Often times leading to the extremely rare "shallow fat" shot. And when I did hit the ball clean I was hitting a push.

 

So now I'm working hard to keep the club out in front of me on the backswing, and I'm trying to feel like I am swinging out to in. Granted, even when exaggerating this, looking at the video I'm still dropping a bit below the line and swinging in to out. But not neary as insanely as I was.

 

The tips I have found say the problem I am having is more common to better players. So that's an ego kiss. But it's extremely encouraging when you can diagnose a problem with your own eyes, find the exact issue being diagnosed by Hank Haney in a video lesson online, and come up with a fix. It's got me excited to get back out there this weekend, whereas I walked off the course last weekend thinking I sucked, my new clubs were bunk, and that I didn't even really want to play again anytime soon.

assuming you are right handed....

 

when we put our right hand onto the club, it is lower than our left, which automatically opens our shoulders and the shoulder line points to the left. it's anatomy. if we don't adjust our shoulder line back to square intentionally, the club during the backswing doesn't go up, back and in simultaneously...it goes up back and outside the target line. the path now doesn't come from the inside to strike the inside back quadrant of the ball. instead it hits the center of the back of the ball or outside of it, which can only cause a fade, push or slice and generally reduces the length of the shot by a rather high percentage. the proper path of the club is slightly inside back and up simultaneously on the backswing which it does automatically if the shoulders are square, down to the ball, then back inside and up to the left...as if throwing a sidearm throw skipping a rock on water, not an underhand throw. as the rock leaves your hand, your right wrist moves to the left and up around to the finish.

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Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

i'm gonna try this ball, though "golf in the kingdom" had specific instruction about yellow balls.

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Prolly not so much up north, but here in the south golf season never really actually ends - played 27 both last Sat. & Sun........Anyways, with the new year underway - anyone going with any new sticks or anything? Besides falcon of course.

 

I'm rolling with 2 new Adams A12 hybrids - a 4 & 3. Also rolling with new wedges - loving the hell out of my new Cleveland 588 58 degree. Stickig with the same ball - Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

 

I am sort of glad Northerns have an off season. Makes the season all that more anticipated and enjoyed. Going on a golf trip in a bout a month and always get pretty amped that time of the year.

 

Although I did get out for 9 holes when the course was closed at the start of December, which is pretty rare.

 

Nothing new in the bag yet. Got a new pair of footjoy icons at a hell of a price at the end of last year, have yet to break them in. Probably in market for a new Driver since mine is getting lapped in technology. When I put a good swing on it, it goes fine. But the miss hits lack compared to newer models. I've had titleist 762s and vokeys for a while, but they are holding up fine. Usually get a new vokey once every other year, the local pro stocked up on the square grooves before they went off the market.

 

Golf :overhead:

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I don't get caught up in golf balls really. I'm young so seeing the balls isn't really an issue. I do tend to play a yellow ball in the fall or early spring though. When balls plug or get lost in leaves.

 

I use Pro Vs when I'm playing decently serious. So I guess I care about the ball. But it is more of a comfort thing. But to me a softer high end ball is a soft high end ball. A mid-ranged semi soft semi distant ball is the same whether it be a regular NXT or mid level priced Srixon, A top rock is a top rock no matter if its a pinnacle or top flite.

 

I've shot some of my best rounds with old beat up Pro Vs that I find in the bottom of my bag from 3 years ago.

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I did buy a new Titleist 910F 3-wood, had to spend some pro shop credit before the end of last calendar year. I've hit it a few rounds, but prolly not going to keep it. I acually hit my 2005 904F Titleist 3-wood way better still....... Good example of newer not always being better.

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I did buy a new Titleist 910F 3-wood, had to spend some pro shop credit before the end of last calendar year. I've hit it a few rounds, but prolly not going to keep it. I acually hit my 2005 904F Titleist 3-wood way better still....... Good example of newer not always being better.

I'm keeping my Hogan Apex Pro irons forever.... or at least until im good enough to play straight blades...

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I don't get caught up in golf balls really. I'm young so seeing the balls isn't really an issue. I do tend to play a yellow ball in the fall or early spring though. When balls plug or get lost in leaves.

 

I use Pro Vs when I'm playing decently serious. So I guess I care about the ball. But it is more of a comfort thing. But to me a softer high end ball is a soft high end ball. A mid-ranged semi soft semi distant ball is the same whether it be a regular NXT or mid level priced Srixon, A top rock is a top rock no matter if its a pinnacle or top flite.

 

I've shot some of my best rounds with old beat up Pro Vs that I find in the bottom of my bag from 3 years ago.

They've made some huge headway in the mid tier ball technology... I really only care about softness and you can get that out of the NXT tours, B300RX and Srixons....

 

Best low end ball i've found is the noodle... Noodle made St Pattys day balls that i wish i stocked up more on when they came out...

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I'm keeping my Hogan Apex Pro irons forever.... or at least until im good enough to play straight blades...

Ever considered mixing a set up? I have a couple buddies that play blade wedge - 7 iron, then a form of cavity back on the 6 iron up. I thought about it at one time, till I found a small sized cavity back that played similar to a blade.

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Ever considered mixing a set up? I have a couple buddies that play blade wedge - 7 iron, then a form of cavity back on the 6 iron up. I thought about it at one time, till I found a small sized cavity back that played similar to a blade.

Thats what the Apex Edge Pros are.... They are basically blades on the short irons, and get more of a cavityback on the 3,4,5,6....Forged... love em... Don't make them anymore as Hogan got bought by TopFlight, then Callaway, then discontinued.... way ahead of their time.

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I'm keeping my Hogan Apex Pro irons forever.... or at least until im good enough to play straight blades...

i have an old set of Apex Edge boxed up waiting for my son to grow taller. i replaced them with TM R7 tp's about 5 seasons ago just cause i wanted something new. what i found was the hogan apex irons are just as good, if not better than any new iron on the market, even if they are bit more shut than the r7s. if someone wanted some good "almost blades", these are the ones to have...and they can be had for cheap used.

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i have an old set of Apex Edge boxed up waiting for my son to grow taller. i replaced them with TM R7 tp's about 5 seasons ago just cause i wanted something new. what i found was the hogan apex irons are just as good, if not better than any new iron on the market, even if they are bit more shut than the r7s. if someone wanted some good "almost blades", these are the ones to have...and they can be had for cheap used.

:thumbsup:

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Thats what the Apex Edge Pros are.... They are basically blades on the short irons, and get more of a cavityback on the 3,4,5,6....Forged... love em... Don't make them anymore as Hogan got bought by TopFlight, then Callaway, then discontinued.... way ahead of their time.

Oh that's right - yea, been a while since I have seen them. They should bring that line and technology back - least someone should.

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I did buy a new Titleist 910F 3-wood, had to spend some pro shop credit before the end of last calendar year. I've hit it a few rounds, but prolly not going to keep it. I acually hit my 2005 904F Titleist 3-wood way better still....... Good example of newer not always being better.

 

 

What degree? I have that club in a strong 13 degree with a stiff shaft. Used to be able to hit it a mile off the tee but am having trouble with it now. All my shafts are stiff and I am beginning to believe that I need regular shafts on all of my clubs.

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I hadn't played in about 6 weeks. Got the new sticks and went out last week and put up a disaster round. Could barely make contact with the ball.

 

What did people do before smart phones? I spent the past few days video taping my swing and doing research. My backswing had gotten so flat that I was coming into the ball way too shallow. Often times leading to the extremely rare "shallow fat" shot. And when I did hit the ball clean I was hitting a push.

 

So now I'm working hard to keep the club out in front of me on the backswing, and I'm trying to feel like I am swinging out to in. Granted, even when exaggerating this, looking at the video I'm still dropping a bit below the line and swinging in to out. But not neary as insanely as I was.

 

The tips I have found say the problem I am having is more common to better players. So that's an ego kiss. But it's extremely encouraging when you can diagnose a problem with your own eyes, find the exact issue being diagnosed by Hank Haney in a video lesson online, and come up with a fix. It's got me excited to get back out there this weekend, whereas I walked off the course last weekend thinking I sucked, my new clubs were bunk, and that I didn't even really want to play again anytime soon.

 

 

ever watch the first haney project with barkley? there is a drill he has charles do that is really great for grooving your swing to eliminate coming inside out or over the top. as charles takes his backswing, hank uses I believe the grip end of another club to "pull" charles' club out and away from his body so charles could feel the idea of taking the club away "out" and letting the downswing fall back "in". obviously you dont even need someone helping you with this you can just make a conscious effort at the range to make a bunch of shots in a row feeling like you're looping your swing... you can even think jim furyk.

 

also i started posting without readin your entire post and i see you did watch something from haney. not sure if it was a similar fix.

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what's the last "training" tool or vid you've purchased?

 

last and best training tool i ever got was the medicus driver. i'm sure everyone has heard of it, it's the club with the hinge in it that collapses for numerous swing flaws and you can hit real balls with it. long ago, the head pro i worked under had the iron version and i remember using his.

 

if i'm spraying the ball all over the place off the tee, all I have to do is take several slowed down swings with the medicus driver and i'll be hitting the ball much straighter. I try to swing it a bit before every round. Basically, it forces you to concentrate on starting your back swing off low and slow. It will also tell you if your swing plane is way off or if you have too much wrist action.

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Prolly not so much up north, but here in the south golf season never really actually ends - played 27 both last Sat. & Sun........Anyways, with the new year underway - anyone going with any new sticks or anything? Besides falcon of course.

 

I'm rolling with 2 new Adams A12 hybrids - a 4 & 3. Also rolling with new wedges - loving the hell out of my new Cleveland 588 58 degree. Stickig with the same ball - Srixon Z-Star yellow is freaking awesome.

 

Going into season 2 with my Rocketballz Driver. 9.5 tour Stiff.

Season 3 with my Callaway xforged 2009 irons.

 

only new club in the bag will be a Cleveland CG16 52* wedge i received from my father for xmas.

 

we should have a "whats in the bag" geek edition thread :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8w0A9tg450

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what's the last "training" tool or vid you've purchased?

Bought an overpriced callaway putting matt with a crescent type hole you can stick that is slightly smaller than a regulation cup.

 

Also bought the iPing thing for my iPhone that measures putter club face angle and tempo, it's a bit of a gimmick but gets you thinking about good tempo.

 

Bought the mat because I wanted to establish a neutral squared off putting stance for short putts, which it is helpful for. Funny when I got to a course and had a longer than 8' putt and barely got it halfway there...lol...the muscle memory was strong

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If you walk I'd recommend the clicgear 3.0. Awesome way to walk the course. My bag weighs a ton and I hate carrying so I splurged. Go ahead let me have it. I also bought the beer can cooler than hangs off of it. I considered buying the attachable seat but I had to draw the line somewhere :):

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what's the last "training" tool or vid you've purchased?

 

Maybe because I worked in a pro shop for much of my youth I am bias. But most all of that stuff is junk. There are some good books that explain a lot of things well. But as far as the gadgets it is all crap. I would rather invest in lessons than gimmick tools.

 

The pro I worked under extended a wedge 2 feet. The basis is to make sure your hands stay ahead of the ball. If you don't keep them ahead the back end with nail you in the side. It was pretty much the best "tool" I have seen and it was made by just extending a club with half of another shaft.

 

I find the Medicus goofy. Not everyone swings like that. It teaches you more bad habits than good. Everyone has a unique swing and that thing prevents you from finding it.

 

All of it is junk. That is why 90% of it is sold on TV.

 

The pro had a medicus iron in the back and it collected dust. He did have a yellow shafted weighted iron. 1 he cut down so he could swing indoors. And another full length one. I like swinging those before a round or just to keep all of your golf muscles sharp during the winter.

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ever watch the first haney project with barkley? there is a drill he has charles do that is really great for grooving your swing to eliminate coming inside out or over the top. as charles takes his backswing, hank uses I believe the grip end of another club to "pull" charles' club out and away from his body so charles could feel the idea of taking the club away "out" and letting the downswing fall back "in". obviously you dont even need someone helping you with this you can just make a conscious effort at the range to make a bunch of shots in a row feeling like you're looping your swing... you can even think jim furyk.

 

also i started posting without readin your entire post and i see you did watch something from haney. not sure if it was a similar fix.

 

http://youtu.be/kXmZTSyMtDo

 

The shallow fat shot Haney demonstrated is my problem to a tee. It's as though he was talking to me directly. It's a tricky problem only in that when I say I'm hitting the ball fat, all the normal fixes are the exact opposite of what I need to be doing, because all of the normal fixes are designed for someone that's too steep.

 

Just keeping my hands in front of me, and feeling like I'm trying to hit a fade. That's the feeling that I'm working on. I can already tell I'm getting way more clubhead speed on my swing, and I am making the proper contact with the ground. But this is in my living room, so we will see. With that too flat swing, the club simply felt stuck behind me. I'm beyond excited to get back out there.

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Maybe because I worked in a pro shop for much of my youth I am bias. But most all of that stuff is junk. There are some good books that explain a lot of things well. But as far as the gadgets it is all crap. I would rather invest in lessons than gimmick tools.

 

The pro I worked under extended a wedge 2 feet. The basis is to make sure your hands stay ahead of the ball. If you don't keep them ahead the back end with nail you in the side. It was pretty much the best "tool" I have seen and it was made by just extending a club with half of another shaft.

 

I find the Medicus goofy. Not everyone swings like that. It teaches you more bad habits than good. Everyone has a unique swing and that thing prevents you from finding it.

 

All of it is junk. That is why 90% of it is sold on TV.

 

The pro had a medicus iron in the back and it collected dust. He did have a yellow shafted weighted iron. 1 he cut down so he could swing indoors. And another full length one. I like swinging those before a round or just to keep all of your golf muscles sharp during the winter.

 

having worked in golf retail and asst. club pro, it's to each his own really. almost all of the "tools" out there serve some purpose but none are a true replacement for a good one on one lesson with a knowledgeable pro.

 

i would definitely disagree with your view on the medicus. a variety of "different" swings can use it. but it's going to point out flaws that no one should have in their swing. you really don't want a "unique" swing where you hinge your wrists on your takeaway for example or a swing that is completely off tempo... but i really only use mine for one purpose anyway. to get my driver swing back under control

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http://youtu.be/kXmZTSyMtDo

 

The shallow fat shot Haney demonstrated is my problem to a tee. It's as though he was talking to me directly. It's a tricky problem only in that when I say I'm hitting the ball fat, all the normal fixes are the exact opposite of what I need to be doing, because all of the normal fixes are designed for someone that's too steep.

 

Just keeping my hands in front of me, and feeling like I'm trying to hit a fade. That's the feeling that I'm working on. I can already tell I'm getting way more clubhead speed on my swing, and I am making the proper contact with the ground. But this is in my living room, so we will see. With that too flat swing, the club simply felt stuck behind me. I'm beyond excited to get back out there.

 

ah, i didn't read clearly. i thought you were taking it away super flat and then still coming over the top. different.

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What degree? I have that club in a strong 13 degree with a stiff shaft. Used to be able to hit it a mile off the tee but am having trouble with it now. All my shafts are stiff and I am beginning to believe that I need regular shafts on all of my clubs.

Mine is 15 degrees - but this particular line has the wrench tool that allows you to adjust the loft, lie, and face. I've tinkered around with it but I'm not exactly a big fan of all that kind of hardware on a club. Also this particular one is a Regular flex - but as with all club makers, their specs vary and range differently from others. What Aldila calls a stiff Graffalloy may call a regular. I tend to look more at the torque readings and base my needs off of that. I like my 3-woods to have around 3.5 degrees of torque - this one is way too whippy.

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ah, i didn't read clearly. i thought you were taking it away super flat and then still coming over the top. different.

 

No worries. Whose to say if I even explained it properly. But in short, I know the Barkley drill and the loop (I'm calling it a loop at least) Haney wanted him to create. When I made my leap from being a mid 90's golfer to a low 80's golfer, this was the drill I did in fact. But over the years I've taken it too far in that direction, and now I've almost got to try and create the exact opposite loop to get my swing back on plane.

 

That's the game though. At least for me as a non practicing very good weekend golfer. I make an adjustment and it works, but then I eventually find myself so hyper focused on that thought that I take it too far. Then I have to find away to pull back in the other direction.

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No worries. Whose to say if I even explained it properly. But in short, I know the Barkley drill and the loop (I'm calling it a loop at least) Haney wanted him to create. When I made my leap from being a mid 90's golfer to a low 80's golfer, this was the drill I did in fact. But over the years I've taken it too far in that direction, and now I've almost got to try and create the exact opposite loop to get my swing back on plane.

 

That's the game though. At least for me as a non practicing very good weekend golfer. I make an adjustment and it works, but then I eventually find myself so hyper focused on that thought that I take it too far. Then I have to find away to pull back in the other direction.

I can really relate to this. You think a small tweak did wonders, so do a bit more, then become obsessive over it, and then everything falls apart.

 

It is an amazing game, always something to work on.

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That's the game though. At least for me as a non practicing very good weekend golfer.

 

 

last season i got so much practice in. range time, chipping/bunker work, putting green. many early evenings between work and whatever else was planned for the night i tried to make pit stop at the range for 45 minutes.

 

my issues was not getting enough time to devote to actual rounds. think i played all of 5 rounds last year :(

 

definitely not going to be the case this season. 1 of my new years resolutions

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last season i got so much practice in. range time, chipping/bunker work, putting green. many early evenings between work and whatever else was planned for the night i tried to make pit stop at the range for 45 minutes.

 

my issues was not getting enough time to devote to actual rounds. think i played all of 5 rounds last year :(

 

definitely not going to be the case this season. 1 of my new years resolutions

 

I play roughly 35 rounds a year, and on average go to the range less than once per year.

 

Basically my practice consists of swinging a piece of PVC pipe at work, then sometimes at home videotaping my swing and looking at it. Swing changes are made while hitting air, then I simply hope they work on the course.

 

Yet tomorrow morning I fully expect to shoot a sub 85 round, and within a month I plan to put up something in the 70's. I'm feeling that good about my swing changes, despite having not hit a single ball yet. :thumbsup:

 

I fuccking love golf. If I spent as much time practicing as I did thinking about my swing, I would be a scratch player.

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I play roughly 35 rounds a year, and on average go to the range less than once per year.

 

Basically my practice consists of swinging a piece of PVC pipe at work, then sometimes at home videotaping my swing and looking at it. Swing changes are made while hitting air, then I simply hope they work on the course.

 

Yet tomorrow morning I fully expect to shoot a sub 85 round, and within a month I plan to put up something in the 70's. I'm feeling that good about my swing changes, despite having not hit a single ball yet. :thumbsup:

 

I fuccking love golf. If I spent as much time practicing as I did thinking about my swing, I would be a scratch player.

 

:thumbsup: . i used to be the same way. play was my practice. i would hit the range maybe 5 times and play 20+ (my rounds usually start in april and finish up in october with a scheduled round at thanksgiving time.

 

but despite barely playing last year, which i was not happy about, the work i put in practice wise had me feeling better than ever about my game and my swing... at least, better than I have since competitive high school days. feeling much better about my ability to work my irons, i usually dont have a problem hitting a fade when I want, drawing on command has always been tougher for me. I also hit a high ball and i was feeling so much better about my ability to keep my irons down when needed.

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