++ UPDATE: AP requests a trade to the Cowboys - Reinstated

[ralphster 274]

if AP stays in MIN, he is guaranteed $45M over the next 3 years.

 

forget sports contracts for a moment, and think of that money as personal income. do you know of any human being who would pay twenty-five million dollars out of pocket to work in a different place?

 

NO ONE would take a $25 mil pay cut. no one. But you're dead wrong bud. The Vikes have already paid the entire $36M that was guaranteed with his last contract. There is significant benefit to MIN in trading him, and their steadfast denial of any deal to date is a giveaway that they'll move him. If they cut or trade him the dead money hit for 2015 is a paltry $2.65M! Zero dead $ in 2016/17. They aren't hamstrung with the deal, AP is hamstrung. Vikes are fronting that they could keep him at his $12.5M salary only to drive up his value imo.

 

Lots of teams are in win now windows. Don't doubt that Zona, Dallas and plenty of other teams have been waiting this all out. MIN can't keep him without huge discord in their fan base and they both need a new start. AP's stuck trying to figure out how to maximize has value at his age and the teams are going to lowball him citing the 'disastrous PR hit' they'll 'have to take' to bring him on. So he'll play out a one year deal for chump change and then look to get paid next year. WHEN he gets on the field I think he'll tear the daylights out of everything in front of him, because he's really motivated to produce and 'secure' his legacy.

[sirensong 111]

just checked, and you're right. my mistake on the contract.

 

barring a radical move though, DAL just doesn't have the cap space. cutting carr wouldn't do it, and restructuring smith is the ace in the hole for getting dez on long term.

 

but still, crow eaten.

[Flyfreak 84]

According to Bleacher Report's Jason Cole, Adrian Peterson's "dream scenario" is he's traded to the Cowboys.

The Cowboys have long been linked to "All Day." They'd have to get creative with the salary cap to pull it off, but one way to make it work is to make CB Brandon Carr a post-June 1 cut and do the deal later this summer when the money becomes available. Cole also mentions the Colts and Cardinals as possible Peterson suitors. We don't see the fit in Indianapolis with Frank Gore now there, but Arizona has been right there with Dallas as the most likely landing spot for A.D.

Source: Bleacher Report

[weepaws 2,457]

Personally I would like to see Peterson with Zona , i think the Cowboys fans that rather wait and try to win later don't deserve that type of player . No need to win now wait is much better

[Cruzer 1,992]

Personally I would like to see Peterson with Zona , i think the Cowboys fans that rather wait and try to win later don't deserve that type of player . No need to win now wait is much better

This is an incredibly ignorant statement - I don't know of any this applies to.

 

Still waiting for the example of a super star rb, or any other non franchise qb, being traded for and putting a team over the top and into the promise land. Anyone?

[sirensong 111]

Personally I would like to see Peterson with Zona , i think the Cowboys fans that rather wait and try to win later don't deserve that type of player . No need to win now wait is much better

 

we've spent the last 15 years in the "win now--one player away" acquisition mode, and we've watched it never work. joey galloway, marco rivera, mike vanderjagt, roy williams (WR), ken hamlin, taking a swing at nnamdi, carr...i know i'm forgetting a few.

 

anyway, garrett/mcclay/SJ have slowly been putting together a solid team, rather than a couple of stars surrounded by bums. at worst, DAL will fail in a new and interesting way, instead of the old and boring way.

[cbfalcon 824]

I guess that's where I'm much different. I personally like option B for you guy's. By a landslide even!

 

Your giving a whole lot of credit for a rookie back plugging right in and being just as good as Murray or maybe even better. Yet, no credit for say a top tier CB or something you draft on Def to also plug right in? I undestand the differances of RB being easier, but at some point you need to get young stud rookie Def players also. The odds might not be as good, but it's even more important that you get it.

 

But, also to me you really have to consider the dynamics AP would bring who would lead your entire team and also keeps oposing offense's of the field.

 

I guess I also really like the idea of spending my first 2 or more picks on Def rather then a RB. Rebuilding the def in the draft concept.

 

Also, when is the last time a 1-3 year Rookie RB won or even was in a SB?

Lets flip the script on the poster who was saying when was the last time a league leading rushing went to the SB?

Because I also do agee with you that Romo is in that 1-3 year window.

I mistyped. I like option B. I think Dallas should make a move for Peterson.

[cbfalcon 824]

I'm not in the "Dallas is one player away" camp. I'm just in the "get better" camp.

 

Obviously Peterson makes the offense better for a couple years. But almost more importantly, acquiring him frees Dallas up to acquire another starting level defensive player in the draft.

 

Basically, the defense needs to get better if Dallas wants to compete. And at this point, that improvement needs to come from the draft. I don't want Dallas pass on one of those opportunities to improve the defense because they had to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round.

[weepaws 2,457]

we've spent the last 15 years in the "win now--one player away" acquisition mode, and we've watched it never work. joey galloway, marco rivera, mike vanderjagt, roy williams (WR), ken hamlin, taking a swing at nnamdi, carr...i know i'm forgetting a few.

 

anyway, garrett/mcclay/SJ have slowly been putting together a solid team, rather than a couple of stars surrounded by bums. at worst, DAL will fail in a new and interesting way, instead of the old and boring way.

Yea I agree with a lot of you type , but in a very quick second this solid team can go backwards real fast , any team in the NFL can . Playing time in the NFL can be very short and winning today is the way in this game no question .

[Hawkfin 32]

I'm not in the "Dallas is one player away" camp. I'm just in the "get better" camp.

 

Obviously Peterson makes the offense better for a couple years. But almost more importantly, acquiring him frees Dallas up to acquire another starting level defensive player in the draft.

 

Basically, the defense needs to get better if Dallas wants to compete. And at this point, that improvement needs to come from the draft. I don't want Dallas pass on one of those opportunities to improve the defense because they had to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round.

- To me this makes a ton of sense. You are the first Dallas fan (I assume you are anyway) that sees this point I think.

 

Also, it's awhile ago but to answer Cruzers question: How about M. Faulk? Rams went out and got him and then they won the SB soon after.

 

I'd say Hawks trading for M. Lynch for a 4th rounder turned the entire team around very quickly. The Def was very young at the time. He's been our cornerstone piece ever since.

 

Didn't NE get C. Dillon when they made their run? I also have to agree Revis put them over the top this year. I think he was huge for them personally.

 

I don't think you can label 1 guy as a missing piece that put them over the top though. It's usually a combo of moves, drafts, rebuild with quality, franchise QB, and the full package to get a SB victory. Plus a little luck too.

 

AP should not be considered as a 1 piece wonder to guarantee you a SB. It's just a move to help the cause with Romo's 1-3 year window and before the line gets picked apart looking for money. AP is also an upgrade over Murray who took you pretty far last year. Also, you can spend all your draft capial on Def to improve that aspect. All this would tie together nicely for a SB run and for Romo's last hurrah.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Also, it's awhile ago but to answer Cruzers question: How about M. Faulk? Rams went out and got him and then they won the SB soon after.

Faulk is a pretty good name to bring up. He is a bit of a tweener though... Yes - his arrival did mark the beginning of the Rams' run. However, if you remember, K. Warner also arrived there at the same time. In fact Warner signed wit the Rams in '98, but didn't actually start until '99 (faulk's 1st year there) - and even then it was bcoz T. Green tore his ACL... Before that - the Rams had experienced 9 straight losing seasons, had been 14 years since their last division title. So it's iffy - I'd be hesitant to say Faulk "put the Rams over the top" of anything. They were so far removed from the top it wasn't even in view. That just happened to be a perfect marriage (faulk/warner) in a fortunate time that it all merged at once.

 

We are talking about a team that is "one player away" from SB parties. We are talking about a team that is already a power and right on the edge of making the jump - the Rams were hardly it.

[Cruzer 1,992]

we've spent the last 15 years in the "win now--one player away" acquisition mode, and we've watched it never work. joey galloway, roy williams (WR)

Galloway and Williams were the 2 worst trades in the history of this franchise. Absolute killers that were spawned out of short sightedness, itchy trigger fingers and ignorance. Galloway cost us 2 1st rounders, Wiliams a 1st, 3rd and 6th rounder.

 

It's a shame, or strange coincidence, that 30 of the 32 teams in the NFL didn't value D. Murray as much as some of the folks around here do. If some of these guys were GMs Murray would of hade 15 offers upwards of $12m a year. Instead he got 2 offers - and one was from his former team. So take solace song, we are not alone, 30 NFL GMs thought paying Murray that kind of money was a foolish idea too.

[weepaws 2,457]

Agree,with them 30 other GM

[Hawkfin 32]

Galloway and Williams were the 2 worst trades in the history of this franchise. Absolute killers that were spawned out of short sightedness, itchy trigger fingers and ignorance. Galloway cost us 2 1st rounders, Wiliams a 1st, 3rd and 6th rounders.

 

It's a shame, or strange coincidence, that 30 of the 32 teams in the NFL didn't value D. Murray as much as some of the folks around here do. If some of these guys were GMs Murray would of hade 15 offers upwards of $12m a year. Instead he got 2 offers - and one was from his former team. So take solace song, we are not alone, 30 NFL GMs thought paying Murray that kind of money was a foolish idea too.

I think most of us just see Murray as a very high quality player. Somebody not as easy to replace as you seem to think it will be.

I never said it was a bad move to let him go though. He is often injured and always has been dating back to college days. However, he's also no McFadden and can give you 12-14 quality starts usually and a "pounder that finds the endzone."

 

AP however is a different conversation altogether. This is what I've been putting my stamp on. He's an upgrade over Murray clearly. What could he do with Dallas and that line is unthinkable and makes for a true run deep into the postseason. Hell, he lead Minn into the playoff's almost by himself and easily no Romo/Bryant.

 

It could be an amazing mix and really something you guy's should explore. I'm sure you could do a new contract that makes it work for both party's. Something that won't kill Dallas growth for the long term rebuild, but give them a 1-3 year window to nail a SB.

 

Being a Hawks fan, I actually hope you don't get him. Like somebody else said, I'm not sure you deserve him now anyway.

[weepaws 2,457]

I think most of us just see Murray as a very high quality player. Somebody not as easy to replace as you seem to think it will be.

I never said it was a bad move to let him go though. He is often injured and always has been dating back to college days. However, he's also no McFadden and can give you 12-14 quality starts usually and a "pounder that finds the endzone."

 

AP however is a different conversation altogether. This is what I've been putting my stamp on. He's an upgrade over Murray clearly. What could he do with Dallas and that line is unthinkable and makes for a true run deep into the postseason. Hell, he lead Minn into the playoff's almost by himself and easily no Romo/Bryant.

It could be an amazing mix and really something you guy's should explore. I'm sure you could do a new contract that makes it work for both party's. Something that won't kill Dallas growth for the long term rebuild, but give them a 1-3 year window to nail a SB.

 

Being a Hawks fan, I actually hope you don't get him. Like somebody else said, I'm not sure you deserve him now anyway.

Amen brother this post is perfect . Great post .

[Cruzer 1,992]

Hawkfin, on 07 Apr 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

AP however is a different conversation altogether. This is what I've been putting my stamp on. He's an upgrade over Murray clearly. What could he do with Dallas and that line is unthinkable and makes for a true run deep into the postseason. Hell, he lead Minn into the playoff's almost by himself and easily no Romo/Bryant.

 

Being a Hawks fan, I actually hope you don't get him. Like somebody else said, I'm not sure you deserve him now anyway.

There are 2 positions you consider making the kind of trade for. One is franchise Qb - no questions, you do it - see P. Manning. The other is pass rushing end. Those are the 2 most valuable players on the field - those 2 affect the game like none other, those 2 are non-replaceable. Running back is not one of them, running back is replaceable.

[Hawkfin 32]

There are 2 positions you consider making the kind of trade for. One is franchise Qb - no questions, you do it - see P. Manning. The other is pass rushing end. Those are the 2 most valuable players on the field - those 2 affect the game like none other, those 2 are non-replaceable. Running back is not one of them, running back is replaceable.

Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

That's your view. I don't agree with it.

 

Seattle did it with Harvin. And sure, it didn't work out but we did win the SB that year. And he did have a huge kick return to take over the game and some very nice big time runs.

Now we come back and do it again with Jimmy Graham. Teams can get out of contracts without killing themselves.

 

NE did it with Revis... Miami is putting thier eggs in the basket now... Teams do it all the time. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. But, they all do it.

I personally think it's Dallas time to make one last move before looking for a new franchise QB.

 

If you think Dallas is SO FAR away then sure, this move is stupid. But, from what I saw last year I think they are close. The moves they already made on Def will help, plus if they can solidify some Def problems with using early picks on Def then that would be great now and into the future.

Then you also upgrade RB with AP.

 

I just don't understand your view. You act like Dallas is in transition and needs much more rebuild. It's not Jax adding AP. Dallas can clearly make a run. That's all you can ask for.

 

Your going the wrong way with McFadden and taking a step back. Your also not drafting for Def if you add a rookie RB early. And like you said, if RB's are so unimportant with a short lifespan then why draft one in the first few rounds? That would be a waist right.

Yet, if you don't take a top tier rookie, then your really waisting another year for Romo with the big downgrade at RB that helped him succeed last year.

 

AP is also like a P. Manning. He's that kind of impact player. And even P. Manning has not given Denver a SB. BUT, they are now in the running each and every year, which is what you want. AP would do that for Dallas.

To each is own.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Hawkfin, on 07 Apr 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Seattle did it with Harvin. And sure, it didn't work out but we did win the SB that year. And he did have a huge kick return to take over the game and some very nice big time runs.

Now we come back and do it again with Jimmy Graham. Teams can get out of contracts without killing themselves.

I appreciate you trying to equate Seattle to all of this, but the Hawks just aren't the right example to use. You guys have the best defense in the league, bar none. Harvin was a piece, not the piece - the defense won you that SB... If you have the best defense in the league you can win SBs (see Tampa, Baltimore, Chicago) and when you have the best Qb in the history of the game you can win SBs (see NE). Super star Rbs are nice, but not necessary to win them. In fact, as I have proven - it's rare they actually win a title - none in recent times.

 

Quote

NE did it with Revis... Miami is putting thier eggs in the basket now... Teams do it all the time. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. But, they all do it.

I personally think it's Dallas time to make one last move before looking for a new franchise QB.

I still don't believe Revis put the Pats over the top of anything - that machine was winning titles w/out him and more than likely would have done so again anyways.... Still waiting for an example of a team near the crest trading for a singular player, that wasn't a qb, and have it worked out putting them over the top and into a SB parade.

 

Quote

I just don't understand your view. You act like Dallas is in transition and needs much more rebuild. It's not Jax adding AP. Dallas can clearly make a run. That's all you can ask for.

Quite the contrary, I think we are close. I also don't see the cliff falling drop off everyone else sees with Murray gone. Murray was good, but the line was better. Like I said, even Joseph Randle ran for 7 ypc behind it.... My view is trading for a singular player, at an interchangeable position, never ever works. What it does is drain valuable resources, cap space and needed draft picks... We had the league's leading rusher last year - how'd we do? We didn't get it done and we lost to a 1 legged Aaron Rodgers bcoz we could not get him off the field on 3rd down. We lost bcoz we have zero pass rush, we lost bcoz we can't make teams punt. Murray, AP nor Football Jesus is going to change that. The running game will be fine. IF we really want to make the jump - we have to make the other side of the ball a difference maker. Last year it wasn't - and running back had nothing to do with it.

 

Quote

AP is also like a P. Manning. He's that kind of impact player.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true - it's a myth.

 

AP has actually played 7 years for Minny - how many years did he get them to the playoffs? The answer is 3 - and he only has 1 playoff win.

 

P. Manning actually played 13 years for Indy - how many years did he get them to the playoffs? The answer is 11 - and I really didn't feel like adding up all the playoff wins, but there are many - including a SB title.. Then he landed in Denver and immediately picked up where he left off - playoff wins out the booty and even a SB appearance.

 

If you response to this is that AP can't do it alone and that he has had a bad defense this or bad whatever that - then you are only supporting my argument further. If AP were the impact player Manning is - it doesn't matter what he has around him, those special kind of players are such difference/impact players that they change a franchise. Manning was drafted by the worse team in the league in Indy - immediately got them into the playoffs and kept them there. Manning lands in Denver, bingo - same thing.... AP has been in Minny for 7 years now - nothing even remotely close to this.

 

AP is a great Rb - AP is not an impact, difference maker to put you over the top.

[Hawkfin 32]

I appreciate you trying to equate Seattle to all of this, but the Hawks just aren't the right example to use. You guys have the best defense in the league, bar none. Harvin was a piece, not the piece - the defense won you that SB... If you have the best defense in the league you can win SBs (see Tampa, Baltimore, Chicago) and when you have the best Qb in the history of the game you can win SBs (see NE). Super star Rbs are nice, but not necessary to win them. In fact, as I have proven - it's rare they actually win a title - none in recent times.

 

I still don't believe Revis put the Pats over the top of anything - that machine was winning titles w/out him and more than likely would have done so again anyways.... Still waiting for an example of a team near the crest trading for a singular player, that wasn't a qb, and have it worked out putting them over the top and into a SB parade.

 

Quite the contrary, I think we are close. I also don't see the cliff falling drop off everyone else sees with Murray gone. Murray was good, but the line was better. Like I said, even Joseph Randle ran for 7 ypc behind it.... My view is trading for a singular player, at an interchangeable position, never ever works. What it does is drain valuable resources, cap space and needed draft picks... We had the league's leading rusher last year - how'd we do? We didn't get it done and we lost to a 1 legged Aaron Rodgers bcoz we could not get him off the field on 3rd down. We lost bcoz we have zero pass rush, we lost bcoz we can't make teams punt. Murray, AP nor Football Jesus is going to change that. The running game will be fine. IF we really want to make the jump - we have to make the other side of the ball a difference maker. Last year it wasn't - and running back had nothing to do with it.

 

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true - it's a myth.

 

AP has actually played 7 years for Minny - how many years did he get them to the playoffs? The answer is 3 - and he only has 1 playoff win.

 

P. Manning actually played 13 years for Indy - how many years did he get them to the playoffs? The answer is 11 - and I really didn't feel like adding up all the playoff wins, but there are many - including a SB title.. Then he landed in Denver and immediately picked up where he left off - playoff wins out the booty and even a SB appearance.

 

If you response to this is that AP can't do it alone and that he has had a bad defense this or bad whatever that - then you are only supporting my argument further. If AP were the impact player Manning is - it doesn't matter what he has around him, those special kind of players are such difference/impact players that they change a franchise. Manning was drafted by the worse team in the league in Indy - immediately got them into the playoffs and kept them there. Manning lands in Denver, bingo - same thing.... AP has been in Minny for 7 years now - nothing even remotely close to this.

 

AP is a great Rb - AP is not an impact, difference maker to put you over the top.

Hmmmm, lots of good points and things I'd like to counter about. But, I'll leave most the unrelated stuff out of it such as Seattle/Revis.

 

I just find it funny how you try and put everything on 1 player. You really think it's all P. Manning for example? It's a team game. That concept does not apply for any one player in this league. You are not going to win anything if you don't have a team around them and talent across the board at lots of key positions. Your picking out a tiny peace of SB winners and running with it. The SB winners played the best as a TEAM.

 

Manning does in fact get surrounded by lots of talent because they know with a Manning they are close to achieving thier goal. So they surround him with talent such as good WR's, TE's. Denver has repeatley tried to spend money on old veteran Def. and corners to make runs. Manning demands they get him talent. Both Denver and the Colts have had amazing WR talent for him.

 

Your right, I'm going to say Minn. has never had any such talent around. You can't deny the garbage he's had to play with at QB, etc.

AP has had very little quality talent around him so to me you prove my point that despite that, he's carried them to the playoff's in 3 of 7 years. You have to have a QB that's capable or your not going to win. AP has not had it.

With Romo he would have it and Romo could lean on him. That's the team concept of winning.

 

I don't know how you know "who" can put you over the top? AP has not played with the likes of Romo and Dez. And they have not played with him.

If you think any scrub can replace a RB or Murray, I think your fooling yourself and in for a big let down next year.

 

Also, the point you keep making about great Def's is ALL the more reason to draft a ton of DEF instead of waisting it on a rookie runner. Draft that Def that Seattle has and pick up that Lynch that we have. Your QB needs the help! You don't have a Brady or Manning.

[Flyfreak 84]

I appreciate you trying to equate Seattle to all of this, but the Hawks just aren't the right example to use. You guys have the best defense in the league, bar none. Harvin was a piece, not the piece - the defense won you that SB... If you have the best defense in the league you can win SBs (see Tampa, Baltimore, Chicago) and when you have the best Qb in the history of the game you can win SBs (see NE). Super star Rbs are nice, but not necessary to win them. In fact, as I have proven - it's rare they actually win a title - none in recent times.

i love this story, could you please tell it to me again?

[cbfalcon 824]

There are 2 positions you consider making the kind of trade for. One is franchise Qb - no questions, you do it - see P. Manning. The other is pass rushing end. Those are the 2 most valuable players on the field - those 2 affect the game like none other, those 2 are non-replaceable. Running back is not one of them, running back is replaceable.

 

I would like to clarify my stance.

 

I want Dallas to pursue AP. But not in a Joey Galloway-Roy Williams type of trade. I'm not giving up two 1st rounders for any RB, let alone a 30 year old. Really, I don't want to give up any 2nd or 3rd rounders either. But if he is released, I want to pay him for 3 years. And if we have to pay a price similar to the trade for Lynch (4th rounder), then I'll do it. The Vikings may be thrilled to get a 4th or so for him to get out of paying him that money to be unhappy.

[Hawkfin 32]

 

I would like to clarify my stance.

 

I want Dallas to pursue AP. But not in a Joey Galloway-Roy Williams type of trade. I'm not giving up two 1st rounders for any RB, let alone a 30 year old. Really, I don't want to give up any 2nd or 3rd rounders either. But if he is released, I want to pay him for 3 years. And if we have to pay a price similar to the trade for Lynch (4th rounder), then I'll do it. The Vikings may be thrilled to get a 4th or so for him to get out of paying him that money to be unhappy.

I would agree with that for sure... 3rd rounder would be the highest I would give considering he's a 30 year old back with off field issues.

 

I personally was assuming he's released or minimal compensation just to have Minn. ditch him. (Say a 4th or 5th rounder - like the Lynch or B. Marshall deals)

 

That would change everything if your talking about having to give up a 1st or 2nd round draft pick.

[sirensong 111]

- To me this makes a ton of sense. You are the first Dallas fan (I assume you are anyway) that sees this point I think.

Also, it's awhile ago but to answer Cruzers question: How about M. Faulk? Rams went out and got him and then they won the SB soon after.

 

I'd say Hawks trading for M. Lynch for a 4th rounder turned the entire team around very quickly. The Def was very young at the time. He's been our cornerstone piece ever since.

 

 

both of these examples prove the point cruzer and i have been making. the rams were 6th in total defense when they won the SB, giving up only 15.1 ppg. the next season they regressed on defense, and barely made the playoffs despite breaking the league record for offensive production. in 2001, the defense was back to elite status, and the rams were back in the SB.

 

lynch is the same story. in 2011, the defense ranked 9th, and the team went 7-9. the following year, the defense improved to 4th, and the team went to the divisional playoffs. since then, SEA has had the most dominant defense in the NFL.

 

these cases are excellent evidence that an elite RB without a quality defense isn't really competitive when it counts.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Hawkfin, on 07 Apr 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

I just find it funny how you try and put everything on 1 player. You really think it's all P. Manning for example? It's a team game. That concept does not apply for any one player in this league. You are not going to win anything if you don't have a team around them and talent across the board at lots of key positions. Your picking out a tiny peace of SB winners and running with it. The SB winners played the best as a TEAM.

I agree.. I'm not sure if you're meaning to, but you're supporting my point here. It's a team - no singular Rb is going to make the monumental difference that's worth what it would cost - unless it's a franchise Qb. Like I said Manning landing on terrible teams and instantly had them winning. AP isn't that kind of player - which is what I was trying to point out. For some reason you want to think AP and Manning are the same kind of player, you said so - but they aren't.

 

Manning does in fact get surrounded by lots of talent because they know with a Manning they are close to achieving thier goal. So they surround him with talent such as good WR's, TE's. Denver has repeatley tried to spend money on old veteran Def. and corners to make runs. Manning demands they get him talent. Both Denver and the Colts have had amazing WR talent for him.

Manning makes all those around him better - AP doesn't, least he certainly hasn't proven it yet. Indy was dead last before Manning got there. He shows up, bam - instantly in the playoffs. Manning leaves - they go back to the worse team in the league. Did the surrounding talent get neck injuries too? No - it was Manning. And again, AP isn't that kind of player - thus not worth the investment. Those resources are more suited for bettering the entire team.

 

I don't know how you know "who" can put you over the top? AP has not played with the likes of Romo and Dez. And they have not played with him.

If you're under the illusion that I don't think AP would be great here, you're wrong - he'd obviously be awesome. But he isn't worth crippling your ability to better the team elsewhere. His impact isn't so much that it makes you a SB team. What it does is make you a fantasy football super star, not much else.

 

If you think any scrub can replace a RB or Murray, I think your fooling yourself and in for a big let down next year.

I think you, as well as many others here, are the ones fooling yourselves. I'm not sure how many Cowboys games you watch or if you get your info from the ESPN clips and Monday box scores - but I watch them all, over and over in many cases. You are going to be in for a surprise when you figure out that wasn't the 2nd coming of Eric Dickerson after all and that indeed the line, plus Romo, plus Dez plenty enough to keep this train moving w/out hitting the panic button.. Murray was here for 3 years prior to last year, did he all of the sudden pick up a book on how to run? Did he get a tip off the internet on how to be a star rb? Or was it his surroundings that made it possible for it all to click? I'll bank on the later, so did 30 GMs across the league who didn't come running with checkbooks to sign him.

[sirensong 111]

 

I personally think it's Dallas time to make one last move before looking for a new franchise QB.

 

 

it's funny how things change. remember, this is almost exactly the same bunch of guys who everyone said was junk two years ago. the only offensive addition last season was martin. and the defense actually lost talent from the absolutely awful 2013 unit. now people seem to think that those same rented mules are the perfect recipe for success, but idiot jerry is keeping them there stallions out of the big rodeo.

 

kind of a weird claim, right?

 

the funny part is that, to a degree, i agree with you. as i posted earlier, the big tragedy for DAL would be to build a team for 4 years from now, when romo will probably be in a wheelchair. but offense has never been the problem for DAL. the offense has always been competitive--it's the defense that has consistently prevented success.

 

so if DAL is going to make one last big move, it needs to be on the defensive side of the football. i feel dirty for saying this, but suh would be a better acquisition than AP. revis would be a better idea. i'd much rather have ware back on reduced snaps. those guys would address the problem, and make the team more competitive in january. those are the guys who would be dealing with rodgers and lynch.

 

the problem is defense. if DAL can't put up a top-10 defense, they will not even make the SB. and drafting out of 27, rookie defenders aren't going to get them there.

[ralphster 274]

Were I Dallas I'd give up a 2015 first for AP and next year's 3rd with the following conditions:

 

1. IF AP plays all 16 games and rushes for 1500 or more yards = 2016 2nd instead of 2016 3rd

 

2. IF AP plays less than 14 games = 2016 4th instead of 2016 3rd AND Minny has to throw in a 2016 5th.

 

That's a hot deal for both teams and it needs to happen...

 

edit: Vikes need a year or two to build around teddy anyway, this is a perfect bridge trade. MIN could likely also net some fringe OL or DB as a throw in.

[sirensong 111]

if AP would play for $5M, i would go for that.

[Hawkfin 32]

 

both of these examples prove the point cruzer and i have been making. the rams were 6th in total defense when they won the SB, giving up only 15.1 ppg. the next season they regressed on defense, and barely made the playoffs despite breaking the league record for offensive production. in 2001, the defense was back to elite status, and the rams were back in the SB.

 

lynch is the same story. in 2011, the defense ranked 9th, and the team went 7-9. the following year, the defense improved to 4th, and the team went to the divisional playoffs. since then, SEA has had the most dominant defense in the NFL.

 

these cases are excellent evidence that an elite RB without a quality defense isn't really competitive when it counts.

Again,

You guy's keep ignoring the point that by NOT drafting a rookie RB that you can further rebuild your Def up. AP would just be a piece to the overall puzzle.

Plus you have added some Def as it is.

 

Your also ignoring 2 facts.

-Even though those Def improved and led them to the SB. They STILL had the big time RB in place. Without that pieace, then the Def would be on the field more. If they lacked on offense and didn't sustain drives, then that's more overall added pressure on the Def to perform. More closer games, which leads to a few more losses, which leads to not getting home field advantage, which can lead to not winning a SB. Like I said it is a team game, and the SB winners usually do have a good def in place, but they also had a RB that got it done. You still ignore the fact that they did have the RB too. Not just a Romo.

 

-Point 2 is that you guys act like your taking last years team and say: Hey we need to improve the Def. Our offense was fine. YOU ARE NOT THE SAME OFFENSE. You have lost Murray. He helped carry Romo last year. My point is that you lost on Offense, and this hit will also take a dirrect hit into your Def.

AP not only "maintains what you had last year", but also probably gives you more.

 

Also, Murray has always been good for Dallas. He didn't lead the league like last year (Due to the improved Oline and committment to run and contract year), but he has always been near the top of RB's and proven to be a workhorse. He was also improving almost each year. He was hitting his prime it looked like to me. Of course the line helped too.

He also always got hurt for about 1-4 games and it led to him not reaching his full potential. It hurt the team when he was out those years. (i.e. my point)

This is where AP becomes a bigger assest along with being a better overall runner.

 

I think you guy's don't realize that another year of heavy RB production like what you did last year, with a little bit improved Def (Like you added plus draft) then you might win a few more games. This might give you a #1 or #2 seed , unlike what you didn't get last year. This in turn gives you one less game and home field. That with AP could easily lead you to a SB.

 

As it sits right now in my perspective: Romo is forced to do to much without a workhorse back, forces it to Dez, Def is on the field more and looks worse, closer games with a few more loses. You might be lucky to even win the Div. now, and I definatley don't see you guy's having the power to get the #1 or #2 seed that is so important in winning a SB.

[Hawkfin 32]

I think I'm understanding now that you guy's don't feel your team is very close. You guy's sound like your Def is MILES away from being any good, and Dallas is not close enough for a single guy to help it no matter what.

 

That's a rebuilding stage. I personally don't see Dallas in this situation. If so, you had better start drafting a QB of the future.

 

I think you were very close last year. You came up to Seattle and pounded us for a win that is very hard to come by. Had you guy's got home field advantage you could be singing a different toon and might have been on the verge of a SB and close to the ultimate goal.

 

You label the one game (vs GB) as the overall problem & def problem, but GB was all over us too. They are a good team and made a big time run at it.

You still almost took that game (at GB)

 

Now plug in AP over Murray (Along with the Def upgrade and a few draft picks) - I say your real close. Get that homefield advantage then even closer.

 

The Def could lose the SB for you, but getting their is half the battle and could be done with a team like you had last year. You needed to stay with it though and continoue to improve on what you did last year. (That means find a few Def prospects, NOT lose your RB and focal point)

[Hawkfin 32]

Were I Dallas I'd give up a 2015 first for AP and next year's 3rd with the following conditions:

 

1. IF AP plays all 16 games and rushes for 1500 or more yards = 2016 2nd instead of 2016 3rd

 

2. IF AP plays less than 14 games = 2016 4th instead of 2016 3rd AND Minny has to throw in a 2016 5th.

 

That's a hot deal for both teams and it needs to happen...

 

edit: Vikes need a year or two to build around teddy anyway, this is a perfect bridge trade. MIN could likely also net some fringe OL or DB as a throw in.

That seems like a hefty price.... I understand AP should garner a 1st rounder plus, but in that case Dallas would have been better off to just sign Murray and keep it's picks.

OR just draft a rookie RB in the 1st since they are in a good position to draft one of the top ones. (Probably what they will do)

 

I personally don't think they need to give a 1st or 2nd to get AP though. AP is making it hard for Minn to even keep him. It will probably come to a point where they just need to remove themselves from him for anything they can get. Also, if it saves them money then that would be another reason to unload him for a good price. Heck, they may release him outright.

 

Marshall only went for a 5th rounder this year. AP has huge offfield hurtles and is 30 playing RB.

 

I personally would give up a 3rd for him. But, I think they could get creative and do something like a 4th or 5th this year and a moving pick next year based on incentives, and provided he reworks his contract/paycut.

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

Were I Dallas I'd give up a 2015 first for AP and next year's 3rd with the following conditions:

 

1. IF AP plays all 16 games and rushes for 1500 or more yards = 2016 2nd instead of 2016 3rd

 

2. IF AP plays less than 14 games = 2016 4th instead of 2016 3rd AND Minny has to throw in a 2016 5th.

 

That's a hot deal for both teams and it needs to happen...

With all due courtesy, is a horrible idea - totally insane.... A franchise's most valuable asset is draft picks, especially 1st round picks - you don't go giving those away for 30 year old rbs. You also don't give away your most valuable asset to build on a strength - and offense is the strength of this team, Murray or not.

 

The current front office's history with dealing away 1st round picks is atrocious, beyond atrocious - like throwing a body into a wood chipper atrocious. I'd be extremely pissed if they pulled some kind of stunt like this.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Hawkfin, on 07 Apr 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Your going the wrong way with McFadden and taking a step back. Your also not drafting for Def if you add a rookie RB early. And like you said, if RB's are so unimportant with a short lifespan then why draft one in the first few rounds? That would be a waist right.

Yet, if you don't take a top tier rookie, then your really waisting another year for Romo with the big downgrade at RB that helped him succeed last year.

Meant to address this earlier.

 

Maybe DMC is a step back, maybe he's not. He's bigger than Murray, he's faster than Murray, he's the same age as Murray, he's same the same history with injury as Murray. The only difference is DMC has always played behind some of the worse offensive lines in football, played behind some average to bad to really bad qbs - and behind a team who often the leading pass catcher was a TE. Murray - well you know what he played behind and with whom he was playing with. It's a gamble, agreed - I'm willing to roll the dice on it. For all we know he may be better - why not, till last year most never heard of Demarco Murray, and he had been on the team for 3 years already.

 

As far as taking a RB in the 1st round. It's not a wasted pick, even given the fact our line is the best in football. And the reason it's not a waste is bcoz it's a value pick - and "value" is one of the building blocks of an football team.... A Rb is never going to be as young, fast and cheap as he is as a rookie. It is a franchise's best opportunity to get top dollar talent and basement prices - and you get them locked in for 3 to 4 years to boot. That's value - and that's never a bad investment.

[Hawkfin 32]

With all due courtesy, is a horrible idea - totally insane.... A franchise's most valuable asset is draft picks, especially 1st round picks - you don't go giving those away for 30 year old rbs. You also don't give away your most valuable asset to build on a strength - and offense is the strength of this team, Murray or not.

 

The current front office's history with dealing away 1st round picks is atrocious, beyond atrocious - like throwing a body into a wood chipper atrocious. I'd be extremely pissed if they pulled some kind of stunt like this.

While I agree with you, I will say this. Seattle would have done it.

 

If we didn't sign Lynch or couldn't get that done or he retired. There is no question in my mind that we might make a pitch to give our 1st rounder for AP.

Your not usually getting a "plug him in stud starter" with your first rounder, especially when it's a late pick that these two teams have.

 

If you noticed, that trade for Graham didn't happen until AFTER we resigned Lynch. I'm sure it would have crossed their minds to fill a huge gap of losing Lynch with the likes of AP.

 

Now, I know your going to say. Seattle is in a different situation. They have a Def. etc. etc.

That would just show me how little you respect your own "team" and it's def. I think you feel it needs a complete rebuild. Maybe your right, and if so AP is not a good fit. But, I'm not sure how they got to 11-5 with such a poor team and no credit given to Murray. It's all Romo and Oline huh?

Your closer then your giving credit for on Def. Just need a few holes plugged.

 

But, I agree with not giving up your 1st rounder for him. You can see the post I posted before this. I don't think you would have too.

Just saying it's not the end of the world either for a guy like AP. He's no Galloway.

[Cruzer 1,992]

While I agree with you, I will say this. Seattle would have done it.

 

If we didn't sign Lynch or couldn't get that done or he retired. There is no question in my mind that we might make a pitch to give our 1st rounder for AP.

Your not usually getting a "plug him in stud starter" with your first rounder, especially when it's a late pick that these two teams have.

 

If you noticed, that trade for Graham didn't happen until AFTER we resigned Lynch. I'm sure it would have crossed their minds to fill a huge gap of losing Lynch with the likes of AP.

 

Now, I know your going to say. Seattle is in a different situation. They have a Def. etc. etc.

That would just show me how little you respect your own "team" and it's def. I think you feel it needs a complete rebuild. Maybe your right, and if so AP is not a good fit. But, I'm not sure how they got to 11-5 with such a poor team and no credit given to Murray. It's all Romo and Oline huh?

Your closer then your giving credit for on Def. Just need a few holes plugged.

You're right, it's not the same. Give me Seattle's defense and I'll gladly consider making this deal. Until then - no.

 

I will again ask you - how much Cowboys football did you actually watch? We won a lot of games bcoz of our strength, the offense. But Murray wasn't the offense, he was a piece - a replaceable piece. You and many others seem to believe he's not - why I have no idea. Like I said, until last year, nobody ever heard of him and he'd been on the team for 3 years... Even with AP and even scoring the most points in the league - we don't beat the A. Rodgers of the world bcoz we can't stop them. And when you go giving away draft picks and sucking up cap space - you leave yourself in a bad spot to do anything about it.

[Hawkfin 32]

Meant to address this earlier.

 

Maybe DMC is a step back, maybe he's not. He's bigger than Murray, he's faster than Murray, he's same the same history with injury as Murray. The only difference is DMC has always played behind some of the worse offensive lines in football, played behind some average to bad to really bad qbs - and behind a team who often the leading pass catcher was a TE. Murray - well you know what he played behind and with who he was playing with. It's a gamble, agreed - I'm willing to roll the dice on it. For all we know he may be better - why not, till last year most never heard of Demarco Murray, and he had been on the team for 3 years already.

 

As far as taking a RB in the 1st round. It's not a wasted pick, even given the fact our line is the best in football. And the reason it's not a waste is bcoz it's a value pick - and "value" is one of the building blocks of an football team.... A Rb is never going to be as young, fast and cheap as he is as a rookie. It is a franchise's best opportunity to get top dollar talent and basement prices - and you get them locked in for 3 to 4 years to boot. That's value - and that's never a bad investment.

I'm not sure I said taking a RB in the 1st was a wasted pick. I actually think there is great value to where your picking that makes sense. That's probably what Dallas FO is thinking too. RB's fall deep into the first round our out of the first round all together, so the value where your picking makes sense. if the RB is worth it that is. I agree with you about money value too. But, that is the case for ANY rookie.

BUT, your harping on your Def in most every counter. And you keep saying how Def win championships and RB's don't really matter because of the Def.

You said Seattle is a non issue because of their Def. etc.

How do you expect to get younger & better on Def then? You need to not be picking RB's early, and pick Def often instead. Spend that important pick there I would think.

 

 

With regard to Mcfadden. Well, all i can say is wait and see my friend. Wait and see. The dude will be out by week 8 if you give him the kind of work load you gave Murray last year. I'm not going to say he won't be productive at times. He's always had some talent. But, he will for sure not stay healthy.

Other then last year where he only got like 140 attempts, he has not been healthy 1 YEAR. Going back to college, more of the same.

6+ seasons - Not 1 healthy year.

13,12,13,7,12,10 games played. Not only that, but that is based on roughly under 200 attempts and sometimes in the 100's.

For the last 3 years he's averaged under 3.3 yards. He showed his age last year if you watched him and he looked really old and slowing down.

 

This is McFaddens last attempt to stay in the league. If it fails, and I bet it does, then he will be gone. Maybe he's cheap, but that's not really the point here.

He will not hold up taking a pounding. He will not give you the power running game week to week.

 

This is a Jerry Jones move all the way. I think they have ties to the same College if I'm not mistaken. Sure, there's potential based off who he's played with and lack of talent around.

But come on, this is the exact point I said about AP. Who has AP played with? Just think how much better he would be then?

 

I'm not sure who didn't know Murray?

He's been your bell cow for the past 4-5 years. He's proven he can carry a load of well over 200 attempts. He really proved himself last year with over 390 attempts and playing in all 16 games. The year before he nailed 14 games with over 200 attempts and lots of recieving too.

He's still a pretty young back when you think about it. He hit his prime and took his game to the next level and showed he can do it.

(McFadden has never showed he can be a bell cow)

Murray also ranged 4-5.0 per attempt on average every year, unlike many of McFaddens years.

 

I agree the injury history has a similar feel, but it's really not the same. Murray can be that workhorse and take a pounding for a good 14 games. He's proven now he can do heavy lifting and might continoue to take the next steps and really shine in Phily. By the time he reaches McFadden career years, I think he'll show more seasons of being that workhorse with mostly full seasons under his belt.

 

It appears like a risk worth taking with McFadden, but IMO it won't be the same nor will it work out. A rookie would be a better option and I bet beat him out. If not this year, then the next once McFadden gets hurt again.

 

In the mean time, and with all the waisted years, good luck finding a new Franchise QB as Romo will be about done and Oline picked over.

[Hawkfin 32]

You're right, it's not the same. Give me Seattle's defense and I'll gladly consider making this deal. Until then - no.

 

I will again ask you - how much Cowboys football did you actually watch? We won a lot of games bcoz of our strength, the offense. But Murray wasn't the offense, he was a piece - a replaceable piece. You and many others seem to believe he's not - why I have no idea. Like I said, until last year, nobody ever heard of him and he'd been on the team for 3 years... Even with AP and even scoring the most points in the league - we don't beat the A. Rodgers of the world bcoz we can't stop them. And when you go giving away draft picks and sucking up cap space - you leave yourself in a bad spot to do anything about it.

Your right in that I don't watch all Cowboys football. Mostly not all game long that is.

 

But, I will tell you that they always seem to be on primetime games. I also have the special channel setup that I can tune into games.

I'm heavy into watching as many teams as possible, looking at final scores and boxscores, as well as play by play for each series.

I play 1K fantasy football leagues. SO I'm into every team and what's going on as much as I can.

 

I agree - It's not the same as home town fans. And I've said, these are my views from the outside looking in. But, sometimes outsiders have a clear view too.

Maybe not either.

 

I agree, your def needs work. I agree about sucking cap space. But, I do think Dallas was close last year. I think Murray was a huge part to play in that because what you said is true, their offense carried them mostly. But, what I saw was Murray pounding folks and put Romo in great possition to succeed. When Romo pressed, I felt he struggled. And in past years when they were NOT giving Murray the rock and let Romo take over they were a .500 team and really struggled. Romo chocked the game away many times and caused the Def to be in far worse trouble.

 

We will see what happens. But, I think Murray is more important then you think. I will probably even go as far as saying he's more important then Dez. who was all but gone in the playoff's.

 

Again, if you want to fix that Def like Seattle then draft it. You could still fit AP in that mix though and improve on last year rather then taking a step backwards.

You can get a friendly contract that doesn't crush you long term. But, nothing can crush you long term if your drafting quality players that improve the Def.

Drafting a bust at RB in the first round could. Relying on Mcfadden can set you back. NOT drafting def will.

[ralphster 274]

With all due courtesy, is a horrible idea - totally insane.... A franchise's most valuable asset is draft picks, especially 1st round picks - you don't go giving those away for 30 year old rbs. You also don't give away your most valuable asset to build on a strength - and offense is the strength of this team, Murray or not.

 

The current front office's history with dealing away 1st round picks is atrocious, beyond atrocious - like throwing a body into a wood chipper atrocious. I'd be extremely pissed if they pulled some kind of stunt like this.

 

Reading it again I agree it's too much to give. I was probably taking it more from a FF trade perspective.

[sirensong 111]

Again,

You guy's keep ignoring the point that by NOT drafting a rookie RB that you can further rebuild your Def up. AP would just be a piece to the overall puzzle.

 

 

the issue is not draft picks--it's money. if we know for a fact that AP would play for $5M, most everyone would be on board. at $8M, things look a lot different, since it would need to be at least a 3-year contract for a 29 year old guy with a lot of wear.

[Hawkfin 32]

3 more million is a small price to pay I think for the potential he brings. It's not Murray for 8 mil, it's AP.

IMO probably a hall of famer who's still very hungry and down right mad. He'll be running angry.

That's if you can afford him that is, but I've seen reports on how it can be done.

 

I don't think most of you are on board regardless actually, and those same folks think your RB position is no big deal. Anybody can man it.

I don't think your going to like the results though. (Unless you find a stud Rookie that is - That's your hope at this point)

[sirensong 111]

I think I'm understanding now that you guy's don't feel your team is very close. You guy's sound like your Def is MILES away from being any good, and Dallas is not close enough for a single guy to help it no matter what.

 

That's a rebuilding stage. I personally don't see Dallas in this situation. If so, you had better start drafting a QB of the future.

 

 

i think most of us feel like last season represented drastic overachievement, rather than a reflection of team superiority. we see the exact same kinds of games that we saw during the 8-8 seasons, except that the breaks finally went DAL's way. DAL didn't come in and impose their will on a lot of teams--they fought and scratched, and managed to find a way to win. from the outside, DAL might look like a juggernaut. from the inside, fans see a vast array of weaknesses and problems.

 

and yes, the defense was miles away from being any good. this changed with two moves--getting hardy and keeping mcclain. these guys have a ripple effect, increasing the value of lawrence, crawford, and mincey, as well as putting lee in the best position to succeed. it also helps the secondary, which is mediocre at best.

 

i stand by my earlier post. without a top-10 defense, DAL is not going to make the SB. a high-end RB could help mask defensive inadequacies, but neither murray nor AP was going to magically make them a top-10 unit. acquiring elite talent on the defensive side of the football might. so the team made the proper money decision--hardy and mcclain over murray/AP.