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G-Men: P-L-E-A-S-E don't pull a "Browns"-type move ..

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WTF?!

 

Speaking at the NFL Combine, Giants coach Pat Shurmur said he believes Eli Manning has multiple year left as a quality starter.

Eli's yards-per-attempt average has declined in four straight years -- his 6.1 YPA mark from 2017 was Manning's lowest since his 2004 rookie year -- but both Shurmur and new GM Dave Gettleman have steadfastly supported Eli as their starter going forward. There are growing indications the Giants will not draft a quarterback at No. 2 overall, instead opting for Penn State RB Saquon Barkley or Notre Dame OL Quenton Nelson.

 

The O-N-L-Y way that makes sense is if they don't love the QBs. But, everything that I've read is how "good" the top 4 or 5 guys are..

 

So, my NY Giants - please don't think Eli is a Pro Bowl type QB (he has NOT been for 6 years), and rely on him for the next few seasons. :nono:

 

Do N-O-T be "the next Cleveland Browns," and blow a Top-2 pick by "being smart" .. and then perpetually drafting in the Top-5 until you get the QB position figured out!! :Mr-T:

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I don't know the Giants' team make up, but adding Barkley plus the emergence of Engram, and a healthy Beckham could make for an extremely prolific offense. If their defense is any good, it'll be better just because they're not on the field as much.

 

If they feel that Barkley gives them a chance to win a Super Bowl in the next 2 years, I think they should do it. I also think there's a legit chance that one of these QB's falls to them in the 2nd round. There's also the ability to sign a guy like McCarron, Bridgewater, or even Glennon to get a guage on for Eli's successor. All 3 of these guys played well (not great), in NFL games - there isn't a single player in the draft that has that on their resume.

 

I don't think it would as bad a decision as you're making it out to be.

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I don't know the Giants' team make up, but adding Barkley plus the emergence of Engram, and a healthy Beckham could make for an extremely prolific offense. If their defense is any good, it'll be better just because they're not on the field as much.

 

If they feel that Barkley gives them a chance to win a Super Bowl in the next 2 years, I think they should do it. I also think there's a legit chance that one of these QB's falls to them in the 2nd round. There's also the ability to sign a guy like McCarron, Bridgewater, or even Glennon to get a guage on for Eli's successor. All 3 of these guys played well (not great), in NFL games - there isn't a single player in the draft that has that on their resume.

 

I don't think it would as bad a decision as you're making it out to be.

Good luck with that crap oline.

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Would agree, they need Oline help

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If they draft a QB or a RB the team and dont address the line issues, the offense will still suck because the line is terrible.

 

a terrible line generally means the QB and RB are less productive.

 

it is possible that Eli is still a very good QB, but not behind the line in its current state.

 

If they wanna keep Eli at QB they NEED to get one of the O linemen they need. That being said, it does not make sense to draft an O lineman at #2 overall. So maybe they do draft the best player available and trade an asset along with their second round pick to get back into round 1. At that point it makes far more sense to grab someone for the O line.

 

Then if they sign a reasonable Free Agent, maybe the team can turn things around.

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They do need Oline help, but if Barkely is there I'm drafting him.

 

Amd looking at Oline later.

 

But they do need a rb, badly.

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Giants may not get a pick this high for years - they would be insane to draft anything other than a QB. If there were a stud pass rusher or CB available maybe I could see it but there isnt.

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They do need Oline help, but if Barkely is there I'm drafting him.

 

Amd looking at Oline later.

 

But they do need a rb, badly.

That is also an area of need. I cannot deny that.

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Giants may not get a pick this high for years - they would be insane to draft anything other than a QB. If there were a stud pass rusher or CB available maybe I could see it but there isnt.

dude, I truly think it will take at least 2 years for the Giants to right the ship here. but yeah, I can see why they would be tempted to grab a QB here.

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dude, I truly think it will take at least 2 years for the Giants to right the ship here. but yeah, I can see why they would be tempted to grab a QB here.

Giants will be mediocre for years to come if they don't cut ties with manning now. And that is fine with me.

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dude, I truly think it will take at least 2 years for the Giants to right the ship here. but yeah, I can see why they would be tempted to grab a QB here.

Manning is old and broken down and the Giants are picking higher than they have in many years. There are supposedly several quality QB prospects at the top of this draft and NY has a chance to draft one without having to trade up. They can also start the season with Eli as the starter and let the rookie learn from the bench until later in the year.

 

I will be shocked if the Giants pass on QB for any position but especially if they draft Barkley. That would be very dumb.

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I think a lot of you guys are overreacting to recency bias. For much of his career, Eli has been a "decent" QB. With enough talent around him, they can win a Super Bowl, we've seen that, twice.

 

In the first four games last year, where Beckham played, the Giants scored over 21 points in 3 of them. The reason they lost them is because the defense gave up over 24 points in each of them. The cause of that was a lack of a running game. The Giants, I'm sure have issues, just like every other team. The rest of the season, they struggled across the board because they then no longer had receiving weapons. Heck, look at that the season Rodgers and the Packers have. When you have no running game and a defense ranked in the bottom third of the league, you're going to struggle. The only reason the Packers didn't have less wins is because they're receivers didn't blow chunks... they were just 'not very good'.

 

The Giants will solve part of their problem by doing nothing, in the health of Beckham. As I noted before, they're in the top half of the league in run blocking and top 10 in pass blocking, so I don't believe the offensive line isn't their biggest problem. Even if it is, there are multiple OLine free agents that are available and could help, if the Giants feel that's their biggest problem and they're likely to get better results in free agency than they are in the draft. The other problem, which is very easy to solve, is to draft Barkley.

 

So, sign 1 or 2 offensive linemen in free agency, draft Barkley, and a healthy Beckham and you have a championship contending offense.

 

The rest of the draft they can address OLine depth, WR depth, and defensive players. They can also sign a guy like Glennon, Bridgewater (if available), or McCarron to a 3-year deal. I also think one of the other 4 rookie QB's, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen, or Rudolph, will fall to them at pick #34.

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I think a lot of you guys are overreacting to recency bias. For much of his career, Eli has been a "decent" QB. With enough talent around him, they can win a Super Bowl, we've seen that, twice.

 

In the first four games last year, where Beckham played, the Giants scored over 21 points in 3 of them. The reason they lost them is because the defense gave up over 24 points in each of them. The cause of that was a lack of a running game. The Giants, I'm sure have issues, just like every other team. The rest of the season, they struggled across the board because they then no longer had receiving weapons. Heck, look at that the season Rodgers and the Packers have. When you have no running game and a defense ranked in the bottom third of the league, you're going to struggle. The only reason the Packers didn't have less wins is because they're receivers didn't blow chunks... they were just 'not very good'.

 

The Giants will solve part of their problem by doing nothing, in the health of Beckham. As I noted before, they're in the top half of the league in run blocking and top 10 in pass blocking, so I don't believe the offensive line isn't their biggest problem. Even if it is, there are multiple OLine free agents that are available and could help, if the Giants feel that's their biggest problem and they're likely to get better results in free agency than they are in the draft. The other problem, which is very easy to solve, is to draft Barkley.

 

So, sign 1 or 2 offensive linemen in free agency, draft Barkley, and a healthy Beckham and you have a championship contending offense.

 

The rest of the draft they can address OLine depth, WR depth, and defensive players. They can also sign a guy like Glennon, Bridgewater (if available), or McCarron to a 3-year deal. I also think one of the other 4 rookie QB's, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen, or Rudolph, will fall to them at pick #34.

How many games will Beckham start this year? Manning is now way below average. They need a QB and a whole lot more. This year it will be amazing if they win any games in their own division.

 

What is your early guess at their win total against their division? Of course it's just early speculation.

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Oline or Barkely should be the pick.

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How many games will Beckham start this year? Manning is now way below average. They need a QB and a whole lot more. This year it will be amazing if they win any games in their own division.

 

What is your early guess at their win total against their division? Of course it's just early speculation.

 

Why would I not think Beckham would play the whole year? His rookie year, he didn't start playing until Week 5. Since then, he played 47 of the teams next 48 games until a season ending injury,

 

Manning last year was no different than his career average. He completed 61% of his passes, 3.3 TD%, 2.3 Int%, 6.1 ypa, and a 80.4 passer rating last year. His career average is 60% comp, 4.6 TD%, 3.1 Int%, 7.1 ypa. and 83.5 passer rating. His comp % was up and his Int% was down... both improvements over the career average. The passer rating was down along with the TD% and ypa, but that can easily be improved by having Beckham the whole year. We saw that in 2016 when Eli completed 63% of his passes, had a 4.3 TD%, 2.7 Int%, 6.7 ypa, and a 86.0 passer rating... and the team won 11 games. Eli is no stud, never was, but he was always - and still is - pretty decent.

 

There is a surplus in QB's this season, the first time I can ever remember. There are free agents like Bridgewater, McCarron, and possibly guys like Glennon and Taylor, who've all played in the NFL and have potential. There's also 6 first/second round QB's coming out in the draft. There aren't 10 teams who need a QB. They will most likely be able to draft a guy like Mason Rudolph, who could sit and learn from Eli over the next 2 years, in the second round.

 

I see no reason why the addition of Barkley wouldn't yield them a winning record in their division next year. Split with the Eagles and Cowboys... sweep the Redskins perhaps.

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What about Davis Webb??

 

Also, with running back being so unimportant to actual NFL success (see the two super bowl teams), why should the Giants waste a high pick on a running back?

 

Considering how often teams butcher their first round picks, I would try to trade back for more picks, unless a slam dunk player is available at an important position

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Trading down isn't a bad move.

 

Good point.

 

I would rather have Eli and Barkley and Beckham.

 

Over rookie QB and Gallman and Beckham.

 

If your playing to win now I would go option one.

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Trading down is always the best option in my opinion, it's just a matter of value. Simply, is there a offer out there better than taking one of the players available? I don't assume teams get viable trade offers very often. I'm sure it happens, but I think it's rare... hence why you only see a small handful of trades in the early rounds.

 

If the Giants have to pick, I think the one that best serves their future is Barkley. Barkley and Elliot are the two best RB's most of us have ever seen come out of college. I'm 43 and I know I've never seen RB's this good. To pass on a player like that, the offer better be great.

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Lol ask the Cowboys and Zona the true importance of a stud rb.

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Lol ask the Cowboys and Zona the true importance of a stud rb.

 

Why not ask the Rams, Ravens, or Seattle? Or is it because they won a Super Bowl with a stub RB against your agenda... so it doesn't count? The Rams won with Faulk. The Ravens had Jamal Lewis and Ray Rice (both studs in that time frame), when they won their Super Bowl with dogs like Dilfer and Flacco? I believe Seattle won with Lynch, did they not?

 

Championships are generally won by great defenses. It helps to have a great QB as they make a huge impact on the defense being able to do what they do best. But as we've seen in the past, ie Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Peyton (circa 2016), and Newton, you don't need a great QB to get to the Super Bowl. A "good" one can do the trick, if you have a great defense. It's best if you have a good RB to go with it. Coaching is also important. There's no one simple answer/solution, so it's best to get elite talent when it comes along. Barkely is an elite talent.

 

Now of course, as I read the other threads and I see that Beckham wants $20M+ per season, then the Giants may just say, 'screw this, let's start over'. If they do, then drafting a QB at #2 is the best course of action.

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Lol ask the Cowboys and Zona the true importance of a stud rb.

Odd that neither of them were in the SB but two teams with RBBCs were.

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Odd that neither of them were in the SB but two teams with RBBCs were.

Right, but what might have been if DJ had stayed healthy and the Zeke didn't miss time.

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Why not ask the Rams, Ravens, or Seattle? Or is it because they won a Super Bowl with a stub RB against your agenda... so it doesn't count? The Rams won with Faulk. The Ravens had Jamal Lewis and Ray Rice (both studs in that time frame), when they won their Super Bowl with dogs like Dilfer and Flacco? I believe Seattle won with Lynch, did they not?

 

Championships are generally won by great defenses. It helps to have a great QB as they make a huge impact on the defense being able to do what they do best. But as we've seen in the past, ie Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Peyton (circa 2016), and Newton, you don't need a great QB to get to the Super Bowl. A "good" one can do the trick, if you have a great defense. It's best if you have a good RB to go with it. Coaching is also important. There's no one simple answer/solution, so it's best to get elite talent when it comes along. Barkely is an elite talent.

 

Now of course, as I read the other threads and I see that Beckham wants $20M+ per season, then the Giants may just say, 'screw this, let's start over'. If they do, then drafting a QB at #2 is the best course of action.

Making my point even better, thank you.

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Right, but what might have been if DJ had stayed healthy and the Zeke didn't miss time.

 

Arizona had other problems, but Dallas would have been a playoff team without a doubt.

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Arizona had other problems, but Dallas would have been a playoff team without a doubt.

No question.

 

But DJ might have helped masked some of those other problems.

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Clearly.

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First of all, don't believe anything a front-office guys says in the weeks and months leading up to the draft. If you start hearing rumors that a team is in love with this guy or that guy, chances are they have no intention of drafting him.

 

But for the sake of conversation, I'll say one thing, if they decide to pass on a QB AND Barkley then they should absolutely trade down since there is very little difference between a top 5 O-lineman and a top 10 O-lineman. In fact you could probably get just as good a player in the 10-15 range than you would with the 2nd overall pick.

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Trading down is always the best option in my opinion, it's just a matter of value. Simply, is there a offer out there better than taking one of the players available? I don't assume teams get viable trade offers very often. I'm sure it happens, but I think it's rare... hence why you only see a small handful of trades in the early rounds.

 

If the Giants have to pick, I think the one that best serves their future is Barkley. Barkley and Elliot are the two best RB's most of us have ever seen come out of college. I'm 43 and I know I've never seen RB's this good. To pass on a player like that, the offer better be great.

I think that is tough to say that they are the two best backs coming out of college we have ever seen.

 

But what about a couple of these guys that the whole nation thought were cant miss players from not too long back? You just have to remember the time when they came out and what people were saying.

 

 

Ron Dayne out of Wisconsin. 11th overall - this guy is the prime example of projecting college stats onto the pro level does not always work out. He was considered a lock RB at the time.

Lawrence Phillips - Hugely considered about as safe of a top 10 there was.

Ki-Jana Carter - First overall pick by the Bengals. Highly touted. Injured in preseason and never could come back so who knows?

Blair Thomas - 2nd overall pick by the Jets

Kevin Jones - first rounder to the Lions

Sammy Smith drafted 9th overall by the Dolphins to get them and Marino over the hump. Fizzled.

Trent Richardson - 2012 3rd overall and one of the biggest draft busts of this era

Knowshon Mareno - 12th overall 2009

Darren Mcfadden - 4th overall 2008

Reggie Bush - 2nd overall 2006

Cedric Benson who along with Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, JJ Arriington and Eric Shelton all went before Frank Gore.in 2005

Beanie Wells first round pick in 2011

William Green- 1st rounder to the Browns.

Blair Thomas 2nd overall pick by the Jets in 1990

 

Having a terrible year was the best thing for this team. Over the past 6 years they were 42 and 54 with one playoff appearance (a loss), and were swimming in mediocrity.

 

I'm not a Giants fan and hope they stay in mediocrity, but I think this is the best chance they have in a long time to start implementing some change at the most important position. Hell, maybe they take 2 QBs in this draft. Trade down and get a QB in the 2nd and one in the 5th or something.

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Didn't Barkley have 5 games this year against big ten teams where he had less than 100 yards from scrimmage in each of those games?

 

And what was his rank in the country for yards per carry? 70th?

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The Browns will take Barkley. It makes too much sense even for them to screw up. No matter what they get no worse than the 3rd best QB at 4, probably the second best.

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Regarding Barkley being a top pick, you see some really good players there and you also see some major busts. Reggie Bush was #2 overall, Ronnie Brown was #2, Benson was #4, McFadden was #4 overall and so on. RIchardson, Moreno, Cadilac WIlliams, Spiller, and Stewart all were pretty much busts. I would argue that 9 of the 16 underperformed their draft position or were a complete bust. More than 50%. Barkley is not truly a can't miss prospect, but recency bias and the news media make him out to be one.

 

I know it seems like everyone on the planet loves Barkley, but not everyone does. From CollegeFootballMetrics.com round table:

"We love salivating over his size, his otherworldly strength, and his game-breaking speed, but it hasn't translated well on the field. He's gym strong but not football strong, and he does so much dancing, bouncing, stopping, and lateral moving that he renders himself unable to transfer all that size and speed to power ala Todd Gurley. Looks like Tarzan, rushes like Jane. 230 pounds but stylistically and physically runs like he's 190. Basically Reggie Bush circa earlier years before figuring out how to run hard and between the tackles like a normal back."

 

"Cast aside Saquan's big runs for a moment and focus your attention on the other 95% of his attempts. When doing so, we see that that other 95% resulted in 2.1 YPC across 9 of 13 games last year, and it shows itself on tape. Truly generational caliber backs aren't that inconsistent (to put it nicely). Saquon is like a siren, drawing us in and mesmerizing us with some highlight reel runs and his impressive Olympian body, all while distracting us from what's occurring the majority of the time, and that's inefficiency. He's all athlete at the moment, essentially a neophyte as a running back.... and that gets slapped with the proverbial BOOM-BUST label for me."

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Let the Giants have Barkley. I hope Cleveland is smarter. I hope Cleveland gets back to being relevant and the Giants stay in the hell of mediocrity as I have posted earlier. Worst place to be in the NFL.

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Let the Giants have Barkley. I hope Cleveland is smarter. I hope Cleveland gets back to being relevant and the Giants stay in the hell of mediocrity as I have posted earlier. Worst place to be in the NFL.

Pats fan?

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Pats fan?

Bears actually. Since I got into fantasy football a long while back I have become a bit more into that than the actual team I root for in football. I still have the Blackhawks and Cubs to be a true fan of a team though.

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RB is a diminished position in terms of value. You can draft Derrius Guice who could be just as good as Barkley depending on where he goes in late first early second. If he doesnt fall that late then take nick Chubb in the same area. If you are giants you either go QB or OL or DE. The three positions that have way more value

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The Browns will take Barkley. It makes too much sense even for them to screw up. No matter what they get no worse than the 3rd best QB at 4, probably the second best.

At 4, maybe. No way they take him at 1. And there will be several really good backs available to CLE in the 2nd.

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RB is a diminished position in terms of value. You can draft Derrius Guice who could be just as good as Barkley depending on where he goes in late first early second. If he doesnt fall that late then take nick Chubb in the same area. If you are giants you either go QB or OL or DE. The three positions that have way more value

I agree. And if they don't love anyone at those three positions at #2 overall, then trade down for the best offer they can manage, because I think they could get a haul for the #2 with the QB hype this year.

 

I'm glad the Bears got Trubisky last year as I think he is better in the long run than any of the guys this year.

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