G-Men: P-L-E-A-S-E don't pull a "Browns"-type move ..

[seafoam1 1,878]

Who shouid they have picked?

If they liked any QB then a QB. Otherwise Chubb or trade back. Many would have given them more value than an RB.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

If they liked any QB then a QB. Otherwise Chubb or trade back. Many would have given them more value than an RB.

No, the question is who? The Giants don't get to play that game. They have to pick an actual player. Seeing as you know so much, it shouldn't be so difficult to say what QB they shouid have picked.

[seafoam1 1,878]

No, the question is who? The Giants don't get to play that game. They have to pick an actual player. Seeing as you know so much, it shouldn't be so difficult to say what QB they shouid have picked.

The giants did get to play that game. And they chose an RB. Worst decision they could make. Chubb or Nelson or Allen or Darnold would have been better. Or a trade down as that was an option. Not picking a player. Are you just off?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

The giants did get to play that game. And they chose an RB. Worst decision they could make.

So you don't want to sack up and say who they shouid have picked. Dismissed

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

Are you ok? "Sack up"?

You've been dismissed child. Pick a player or shut it.

[seafoam1 1,878]

So you don't want to sack up and say who they shouid have picked. Dismissed

How ironic, a french medievil poet wannabe is talking about having a sack. Hahahaa.

[seafoam1 1,878]

The giants did get to play that game. And they chose an RB. Worst decision they could make. Chubb or Nelson or Allen or Darnold would have been better. Or a trade down as that was an option. Are you just off?

[shutdown 40]

I thought they should have gone QB. I think Eli is done and is definitely done within the next 2 years. A potential replacement was right there for them. The only logical reason to not take a QB is if you think you can win a superbowl in the next 2 years. Maybe I'm missing it, but I'm not sure I see that on the roster. Still some OL holes and a lot of defensive holes to fill as well.

 

The problem with drafting RB there is that you are paying a premium for a position that should be a value. I heard someone on ESPN say he immediately becomes the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL before even taking a snap. Because the QB position is such a premium in the NFL, the 4 year deal + option year is a steal for a QB, even when they are picked that high. When it comes to cap strategy RB is a position where you can find value later in the draft. The redskins got Guice for a 2nd round contract. The Broncos get Freeman for a 3rd. Obviously these guys didn't have Barkley's talent, but I'm not sure the gap is as substantial as the contract is going to be.

 

 

 

We'll see how it plays out for the Giants because there isn't much as far as QB goes in next years draft at the moment and if they get a title with Barkley and Eli it's clearly the right move, but if they don't it could really hurt them if they can't find a quality replacement for Eli.

[seafoam1 1,878]

I thought they should have gone QB. I think Eli is done and is definitely done within the next 2 years. A potential replacement was right there for them. The only logical reason to not take a QB is if you think you can win a superbowl in the next 2 years. Maybe I'm missing it, but I'm not sure I see that on the roster. Still some OL holes and a lot of defensive holes to fill as well.

 

 

And when they finally do draft a QB, Eli won't be hanging around to help teach the guy the ropes. They would probably have to start the guy day 1. Unless they are keeping an eye on a free agent or two.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

I thought they should have gone QB. I think Eli is done and is definitely done within the next 2 years. A potential replacement was right there for them. The only logical reason to not take a QB is if you think you can win a superbowl in the next 2 years. Maybe I'm missing it, but I'm not sure I see that on the roster. Still some OL holes and a lot of defensive holes to fill as well.

 

The problem with drafting RB there is that you are paying a premium for a position that should be a value. I heard someone on ESPN say he immediately becomes the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL before even taking a snap. Because the QB position is such a premium in the NFL, the 4 year deal + option year is a steal for a QB, even when they are picked that high. When it comes to cap strategy RB is a position where you can find value later in the draft. The redskins got Guice for a 2nd round contract. The Broncos get Freeman for a 3rd. Obviously these guys didn't have Barkley's talent, but I'm not sure the gap is as substantial as the contract is going to be.

 

 

 

We'll see how it plays out for the Giants because there isn't much as far as QB goes in next years draft at the moment and if they get a title with Barkley and Eli it's clearly the right move, but if they don't it could really hurt them if they can't find a quality replacement for Eli.

While I can appreciate your analysis, and it's a good one, it would hold up better if you named the QB the Giants shouid have drafted.

[MDC 5,877]

The giants did get to play that game. And they chose an RB. Worst decision they could make. Chubb or Nelson or Allen or Darnold would have been better. Or a trade down as that was an option. Not picking a player. Are you just off?

Although I agree that the Giants should have taken a QB, and I would have gone Darnold, this is pretty rich coming from a fan of the team that traded multiple draft picks to move up one spot to draft Trubusty.

[weepaws 2,452]

All this talk about how the Gmen should have gone with a A.B., phooey talk.

 

They took the right guy.

 

They can pick up a Qb in next year draft, one never knows how things will play out.

 

I mean wasn’t Brady a six round pick, I be darn he’s been pretty good Amen?

[shutdown 40]

All this talk about how the Gmen should have gone with a A.B., phooey talk.

 

They took the right guy.

 

They can pick up a Qb in next year draft, one never knows how things will play out.

 

I mean wasn’t Brady a six round pick, I be darn he’s been pretty good Amen?

Citing the exception to the rule only helps prove the rule. If you count the 4 QB's drafted in the first round as NFL starters, only 6 teams will have a staring QB's that didn't come from pick 36 (2.04) or higher. The rule is that NFL most starters come in the first round. So while they might get lucky with the kid from Richmond or one of the guys on their roster, odds are they won't.

 

I know we'll have to disagree on the Barkley pick, we've discussed it already. It may prove to be the right pick but I think that from a cap standpoint and from the failure to address their near term QB need standpoint it was the wrong pick. If they win a superbowl with Barkly and Eli I'll come back and admit i was wrong, but if they spend the next several years in QB purgatory because Eli is washed up and they don't have the same QB options in this draft available to them in the near future, then it will prove to be the wrong pick.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Like I've said to a few - NY got a fabulous player, nobody will argue that....... But of all the possible scenarios, Barkley was the best possible pick for opponents of the Giants... Would have been much worse had they: 1) moved down, picked up extra picks and still got Barkley 2) picked Chubb 3) the worst of the worst, had they taken a QB and found a Wentz type franchise superstar.

 

Past 10 SB winners/RB/ Draft position/SB stats

 

1. PHI: LeGarrette Blount / Undrafted / 14 carries for 90 yards, 1 td..... Want to say Jay Ajayi? Ok - he was a 5th rounder.

2. NE: LeGarrett Blount/ Undrafted / 11 for 31, 0 tds.

3. DEN: CJ Anderson / Undrafted / 12 for 90, 1 td.

4. NE: LeGarrett Blount / Undrafted / 14 for 40, 0 td.

5. SEA: Marshawn Lynch / 1st round, 12th pick / 15 for 39, 1 td.

6. BALT: Ray Rice / 2nd round / 20 for 59, 0 td.

7. NYG: Ahmad Bradshaw / 7th round / 17 for 72, 1 td.

8. GB: James Stark / 6th round / 11 for 52, 0 td.

9. NO: R. Bush / 1st round, 2nd pick / 9 total touches for 63 yards, 0 tds.

10. PITT: Willie Parker / Undrafted / 19 for 53, 0 tds.

 

Does anyone really count R. Bush? He was hardly the most used RB on his own team... So how far back do you have to go to find a RB taken in the top 3 of a draft that was a major force in them winning a SB - Tony Dorsett and 1977? ..........There's always an exception to the rule, and NY could very well be it this year. But the fact remains that they went 18 years between SB wins - which coincidentally coincided (and ended) with them finally landing a top 2 pick - a franchise QB named Eli Manning.

 

You can find RBs, and history says it doesn't pay to take them with top 10 picks.

[weepaws 2,452]

Citing the exception to the rule only helps prove the rule. If you count the 4 QB's drafted in the first round as NFL starters, only 6 teams will have a staring QB's that didn't come from pick 36 (2.04) or higher. The rule is that NFL most starters come in the first round. So while they might get lucky with the kid from Richmond or one of the guys on their roster, odds are they won't.

 

I know we'll have to disagree on the Barkley pick, we've discussed it already. It may prove to be the right pick but I think that from a cap standpoint and from the failure to address their near term QB need standpoint it was the wrong pick. If they win a superbowl with Barkly and Eli I'll come back and admit i was wrong, but if they spend the next several years in QB purgatory because Eli is washed up and they don't have the same QB options in this draft available to them in the near future, then it will prove to be the wrong pick.

Great reply and th aka for it.

 

Yeah we disagree today about the Barkely pick, but the one of us will be right.

 

About the Brady statement, more of just a playful reminder that one never knows.

 

Thank.

[shutdown 40]

While I can appreciate your analysis, and it's a good one, it would hold up better if you named the QB the Giants shouid have drafted.

They should have taken the one they valued the most. They have guys that do that for a living, I'm just an armchair idiot that watches too much football.

 

That being said, of the 3 they had to choose from I'd have taken Rosen. I know he's got some coachability issues but honestly his UCLA coach was a moron so I blame Mora more for those issues than I do Rosen. The problem Rosen has is working from an "unclean" pocket and that certainly could be an issue in the NFL.

 

Allen's game reminds me, to a degree of Osweiler. I'm not sure he can improve the accuracy enough and there aren't many teams that run offenses from the 1970's anymore where you take a ton of deep shots. Most offenses are built around a short passing game and if he can't hit 60% of his throws it's going to be tough to design any offense for him.

 

As for Darnold I just don't see the confidence and leadership in pressure situations that I'd like to see. He reminds me a bit of Mark Sanchez. Someone who could potentially lose confidence over time if things don't break well for him.

[weepaws 2,452]

Like I've said to a few - NY got a fabulous player, nobody will argue that....... But of all the possible scenarios, Barkley was the best possible pick for opponents of the Giants... Would have been much worse had they: 1) moved down, picked up picks and still got Barkley 2) picked Chubb 3) the worst of the worst, had they taken a QB and found a Wentz type franchise superstar.

 

Past 10 SB winners/RB/ Draft position/SB stats

 

1. PHI: LeGarrette Blount / Undrafted / 14 carries for 90 yards, 1 td..... Want to say Jay Ajayi? Ok - he was a 5th rounder.

2. NE: LeGarrett Blount/ Undrafted / 11 for 31, 0 tds.

3. DENr: CJ Anderson / Undrafted / 12 for 90, 1 td.

4. NE: LeGarrett Blount / Undrafted / 14 for 40, 0 td.

5. SEA: Marshawn Lynch / 1st round, 12th pick / 15 for 39, 1 td.

6. BALT: Ray Rice / 2nd round / 20 for 59, 0 td.

7. NYG: Ahmad Bradshaw / 7th round / 17 for 72, 1 td.

8. GB: James Stark / 6th round / 11 for 52, 0 td.

9. NO: R. Bush / 1st round, 2nd pick / 9 total touches for 63 yards, 0 tds.

10. PITT: Willie Parker / Undrafted / 19 for 53, 0 tds.

 

Does anyone really count R. Bush? He was hardly the most used RB on his own team... So how far back do you have to go to find a RB taken in the top 3 of a draft that was a major force in them winning a SB - Tony Dorsett and 1977? ..........There's always an exception to the rule, and NY could very well be it this year. But the fact remains that they went 18 years between SB wins - which coincidentally coincided (and ended) with them finally landing a top 2 pick - a franchise QB named Eli Manning.

 

You can find RBs, and history says it doesn't pay to take them with top 10 picks.

 

Maybe not a major force, but do the Gmen need a major force.

 

They have playmakers and now they have added a new dimension.

 

So are saying that the Cowboys won’t win a Super Bowl because of the Zeke.

 

I think he will be that major reason why, what so you?

[seafoam1 1,878]

Like I've said to a few - NY got a fabulous player, nobody will argue that....... But of all the possible scenarios, Barkley was the best possible pick for opponents of the Giants... Would have been much worse had they: 1) moved down, picked up picks and still got Barkley 2) picked Chubb 3) the worst of the worst, had they taken a QB and found a Wentz type franchise superstar.

 

Past 10 SB winners/RB/ Draft position/SB stats

 

1. PHI: LeGarrette Blount / Undrafted / 14 carries for 90 yards, 1 td..... Want to say Jay Ajayi? Ok - he was a 5th rounder.

2. NE: LeGarrett Blount/ Undrafted / 11 for 31, 0 tds.

3. DENr: CJ Anderson / Undrafted / 12 for 90, 1 td.

4. NE: LeGarrett Blount / Undrafted / 14 for 40, 0 td.

5. SEA: Marshawn Lynch / 1st round, 12th pick / 15 for 39, 1 td.

6. BALT: Ray Rice / 2nd round / 20 for 59, 0 td.

7. NYG: Ahmad Bradshaw / 7th round / 17 for 72, 1 td.

8. GB: James Stark / 6th round / 11 for 52, 0 td.

9. NO: R. Bush / 1st round, 2nd pick / 9 total touches for 63 yards, 0 tds.

10. PITT: Willie Parker / Undrafted / 19 for 53, 0 tds.

 

Does anyone really count R. Bush? He was hardly the most used RB on his own team... So how far back do you have to go to find a RB taken in the top 3 of a draft that was a major force in them winning a SB - Tony Dorsett and 1977? ..........There's always an exception to the rule, and NY could very well be it this year. But the fact remains that they went 18 years between SB wins - which coincidentally coincided (and ended) with them finally landing a top 2 pick - a franchise QB named Eli Manning.

 

You can find RBs, and history says it doesn't pay to take them with top 10 picks.

 

 

Don't tell giant or barkley fans know this . They will freak out on you.

[Cruzer 1,992]

So are saying that the Cowboys won’t win a Super Bowl because of the Zeke.

 

I think he will be that major reason why, what so you?

There are pages and pages of my opposition to the Zeke pick.. That disgust launched as soon as they selected him - it's not new.

 

Taking a RB with the 4th pick is one of many reasons this Cowboys team won't win shiit for a while... Especially with Red and Linehan here.

[weepaws 2,452]

There are pages and pages of my opposition to the Zeke pick.. That disgusts launched as soon as they selected him - it's not new.

 

Taking a RB with the 4th pick is one of many reasons this Cowboys team won't win shiit for a while... Especially with Red and Linehan here.

Will again I ask, if the Cowboys were to win the Super Bowl do you think the Zeke would have a major roll in that taken place?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

There is a change happening in the NFL, some of you aren't seeing it. Passing games have evolved and the emphasis on stopping them has left teams vulnerable to dump offs and the running game. You will see RB's getting drafted higher in the next few years, emphasis on the multi purpose back. Having a back that runs and one that catches has seen it's better days, TMI for the defense.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Will again I ask, if the Cowboys were to win the Super Bowl do you think the Zeke would have a major roll in that taken place?

Major, like Tom Brady major? No - absolutely not.

 

Why? Bcoz until a RB taken with a top 4 pick, steps up and carries his team to a SB title - I won't believe it. Like I said, Tony Dorsett was the last, some 40 something years ago.... Now if you want to talk about a Marshawn Lynch type role, then sure - Zeke could be that to a SB winning team......... But until further notice - Defenses, QBs and HCs win SBs.

[Cruzer 1,992]

There is a change happening in the NFL, some of you aren't seeing it. Passing games have evolved and the emphasis on stopping them has left teams vulnerable to dump offs and the running game. You will see RB's getting drafted higher in the next few years, emphasis on the multi purpose back. Having a back that runs and one that catches has seen it's better days, TMI for the defense.

Given the average shelf life of NFL Rbs - I'm not sure I buy into this yet... Will we see RBs taken in the 1st? Sure, of course.. But 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall? I'm skeptical.

 

Not until somebody becomes the exception and actually pulls it off with a SB win.

[seafoam1 1,878]

There is a change happening in the NFL, some of you aren't seeing it. Passing games have evolved and the emphasis on stopping them has left teams vulnerable to dump offs and the running game. You will see RB's getting drafted higher in the next few years, emphasis on the multi purpose back. Having a back that runs and one that catches has seen it's better days, TMI for the defense.

I can see that. Given the ratio of QBs taken in the first 10 picks to the number of RBs taken in the first 10 picks this year. And oh my God, all of these teams in the NFL are going with a single 3 down back in their offense instead of RBBC!! Brilliant observation on the RB trends.

 

Seriously, the trend is tight ends and teams putting WRs into the backfield and having more 3rd down backs than ever and RBBC happening more than ever. Even fantasy football players know this more than the average NFL fans.

 

Nobody is drafting RBs higher than QBs or DEs or CBs or OLs unless they are set on oline and dline (except for the giants that is). It is a luxury item. The Cowboys were semi-smart with Elliott because they had a good o-line already. Although, how has that worked out so far for them? They almost made the SB how many times with him on the team?

 

Not too many teams with good olines draft that early anyway. Giants blew it.

[redsrback 30]

Major, like Tom Brady major? No - absolutely not.

 

Why? Bcoz until a RB taken with a top 4 pick, steps ups and carries his team to a SB title - I won't believe it. Like I said, Tony Dorsett was the last, some 40 something years ago.... Now if you want to talk about a Marshawn Lynch type role, then sure - Zeke could be that to a SB winning team......... But until further notice - Defenses, QBs and HCs win SBs.

So happy u mentioned T.D., was convinced 40 some years ago was Robert Newhouse and Preston Pearson, looked it up and u were right, gawd I'm getting old. Side note, Zeke broke his rookie record for a 1,102 yards for a rookie in his 10th game.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

RBBC is happening less and less. The trend is the other way. If you're not seeing it I can't help it.

[weepaws 2,452]

Major, like Tom Brady major? No - absolutely not.

 

Why? Bcoz until a RB taken with a top 4 pick, steps up and carries his team to a SB title - I won't believe it. Like I said, Tony Dorsett was the last, some 40 something years ago.... Now if you want to talk about a Marshawn Lynch type role, then sure - Zeke could be that to a SB winning team......... But until further notice - Defenses, QBs and HCs win SBs.

Lol ok,thanks.

 

Looking at the Cowboys roster if the Zeke isn’t playing there not winning.

 

That’s major.

 

Thanks for the replay

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

2015 Cowboys- 4-12

2016 Cowboys 13-3 and HFA in playoffs.

I'd say drafting EE got them something.

[seafoam1 1,878]

2015 Cowboys- 4-12

2016 Cowboys 13-3 and HFA in playoffs.

I'd say drafting EE got them something.

So if elliott went to the Browns last year, they would have been 9-7 instead of 0-16?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

So if elliott went to the Browns last year, they would have been 9-7 instead of 0-16?

They would have been better. As a matter of fact, the Cowboys were very close to being 15-1. Barely lost to the Giants twice. And they lost on an all time throw by Rodgers in the playoffs. Lost Romo and still won 13 games. Big difference was EE.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Lol ok,thanks.

 

Looking at the Cowboys roster if the Zeke isn’t playing there not winning.

 

That’s major.

 

Thanks for the replay

What part of me saying Zeke was a bad pick is confusing?

 

I'll help you - the reason they don't win if Zeke isn't playing is bcoz they wasted a 4th overall pick on a RB... Elliot played in 4 of our 7 loses last year - explain that genius?

 

Like I said, I'm glad NY took Barkley at #2 - enjoy sitting at 4 SBs.

[Cruzer 1,992]

2015 Cowboys- 4-12

2016 Cowboys 13-3 and HFA in playoffs.

I'd say drafting EE got them something.

The 4-12 season the year before had just as much to do with it than EE.. He was here for 4 of our 7 loses last year - SB parade canceled.

[weepaws 2,452]

So if elliott went to the Browns last year, they would have been 9-7 instead of 0-16?

They would have double up their win total.

[weepaws 2,452]

What part of me saying Zeke was a bad pick is confusing?

 

I'll help you - the reason they don't win if Zeke isn't playing is bcoz they wasted a 4th overall pick on a RB... Elliot played in 4 of our 7 loses last year - explain that genius?

 

Like I said, I'm glad NY took Barkley at #2 - enjoy sitting at 4 SBs.

If they win the Super Bowl this season he the Zeke would be the major reason.

 

Thank you.

 

 

What part of that do you not understand?

 

I think anger management classes might help you.

 

Thanks for the chat.

[seafoam1 1,878]

They would have double up their win total.

Yep. 2x0 = 0. Correct. 0 wins if Clev. had elliott last year.

[weepaws 2,452]

Yep. 2x0 = 0. Correct. 0 wins if Clev. had elliott last year.

No double up = 0 wins = 2 wins.

 

Hang on jr I will teach you.

[seafoam1 1,878]

No double up = 0 wins = 2 wins.

 

Hang on jr I will teach you.

 

Ok. Teach me how doubling 0 is 2.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

The 4-12 season the year before had just as much to do with it than EE.. He was here for 4 of our 7 loses last year - SB parade canceled.

So you think the will he/ won't he be suspended saga had nothing to do with the poor team showing?

[seafoam1 1,878]

So you think the will he/ won't he be suspended saga had nothing to do with the poor team showing?

Boy, I wonder how anyone wins games without elliott.

[Fantasy Noob 10]

I thought they should have traded down if the option was available myself as I believe this team is multiple players away from a superbowl.

 

Having said that, Dave Gettleman did an amazing job in Carolina and I trust him more than most GM's. I'm still a little unclear on why he was fired to begin with. The story I heard was he angered the players by not giving Norman or Olsen big money contracts. Isnt that kind of a big part of being the GM so the players have a target that isn't the coach or owner?

 

I'm kind of suspicious after recent reports that maybe he walked in to find the Owner banging an intern?