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Mmmmm...beer's Low Carb Trial

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It was your last sentence:

Nobody is lumping processed carbohydrates with animal fats, nor has anyone commented on their relative contribution to CV risk. HTH.

Your doctor friend lumped them together in one of the videos you linked, or maybe the text. And I commented on their relative contribution.

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Your doctor friend lumped them together in one of the videos you linked, or maybe the text. And I commented on their relative contribution.

My point remains: nobody thinks refined carbohydrates are healthy. But some think unlimited fat and protein, regardless of the source, is OK. The same people who demonize carbohydrates, especially grains. You seem to fall in the latter group.

 

The goal isnt to define the least healthy diet. :dunno:

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What happened? Seemed like you were doing pretty well. Does this end the trial?

 

Don't be discouraged; you didn't gain weight overnight, so you shouldn't expect to lose it rapidly.

Naw... I'm just focking with you guys... down - 23 lbs thus far... plateaued for about 3 weeks at 235... finally yesterday showing some movement on the scale again.... 234...

 

Back to my pre-surgery weights in the gym.. feeling really good about that.

 

Still eating a "dirty" keto... feeling good. Triglycerides dropped about -100 from 195 --> 95 in the last 3 months. Bloodwork looks good... just plugging along.

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some think unlimited fat and protein

Nobody thinks that Doc... I'm a member of several keto chats... sure you have your set macros... but thats coupled with caloric intake limits.

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Nobody thinks that Doc... I'm a member of several keto chats... sure you have your set macros... but thats coupled with caloric intake limits.

:thumbsup:

 

All true.

 

I'm boring, it's salad and grilled chicken for me, full fat dressing :) basically every lunch. Mix it up for dinner, plenty of veggies, plenty of dietary fiber.

 

Quit eating all those garbage carbs, so much junk packaged to look healthy.

 

A lot of guys fall for that, nutri-grain bars and trash like that.

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My point remains: nobody thinks refined carbohydrates are healthy. But some think unlimited fat and protein, regardless of the source, is OK. The same people who demonize carbohydrates, especially grains. You seem to fall in the latter group.

 

The goal isnt to define the least healthy diet. :dunno:

Sorry but you are wrong. You are the exception with your diet; the vast majority of Americans think low fat options like skim milk and low fat salad dressing are healthy. They aren't, they infuse sugar to make up the lack of taste from removing the fat, and they are less healthy than their real food counterparts.

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Nobody thinks that Doc... I'm a member of several keto chats... sure you have your set macros... but thats coupled with caloric intake limits.

What types of fats and proteins do you avoid? What limits do you place on fat/protein intake?

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:thumbsup:

All true.

I'm boring, it's salad and grilled chicken for me, full fat dressing :) basically every lunch. Mix it up for dinner, plenty of veggies, plenty of dietary fiber.

Quit eating all those garbage carbs, so much junk packaged to look healthy.

A lot of guys fall for that, nutri-grain bars and trash like that.

Ugh. Nobody is advocating processed sh!t like nutrigrain bars either.

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Sorry but you are wrong. You are the exception with your diet; the vast majority of Americans think low fat options like skim milk and low fat salad dressing are healthy. They aren't, they infuse sugar to make up the lack of taste from removing the fat, and they are less healthy than their real food counterparts.

While I agree there is a lot of ignorance regarding low-fat options, there is just as much amongst the low carbohydrate crowd. Lard isn’t good for you, nor is a meat heavy diet or supplemental protein.

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Sorry but you are wrong. You are the exception with your diet; the vast majority of Americans think low fat options like skim milk and low fat salad dressing are healthy. They aren't, they infuse sugar to make up the lack of taste from removing the fat, and they are less healthy than their real food counterparts.

Ill try asking another way: what grains do you advocate in a healthy diet?

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What types of fats and proteins do you avoid? What limits do you place on fat/protein intake?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.kettleandfire.com/keto-diet-food-list/amp/?source=images

 

You limit fats, protien, and carbs to anpercentage of your caloric intake... my target caloric intake being a out 2100 calories a day

 

36% = 185g protein

60% = 145g fat

4% = 21g carbs (net, after fiber carbs removed)

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.kettleandfire.com/keto-diet-food-list/amp/?source=images

You limit fats, protien, and carbs to anpercentage of your caloric intake... my target caloric intake being a out 2100 calories a day

36% = 185g protein

60% = 145g fat

4% = 21g carbs (net, after fiber carbs removed)

OK. Are there any fats or proteins that you avoid?

 

ETA I just read the list in your link. My criticism of the diet remains. Its funny they include non-starchy vegetables with fats, even though they are primarily carbohydrates.

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OK. Are there any fats or proteins that you avoid?

 

ETA I just read the list in your link. My criticism of the diet remains. Its funny they include non-starchy vegetables with fats, even though they are primarily carbohydrates.

I think the premise here is they are very high in non-soliable? fiber that doesn't absorb... nobody is saying no veggies man. Thus you don't count those fiber man... they have minimal impact on your glycemic index.

 

Most of this is eating whole, organic, grass-fed etc non-processed foods... you stay away from dyes.. most syrups (corn, rice etc), box foods, fast food, sugar and all the sh!t that turns to sugar... etcm

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Why not just cut your calories down to a few hundred below maintenance? Counting calories is easier than counting carbs and it actually works.

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Why not just cut your calories down to a few hundred below maintenance? Counting calories is easier than counting carbs and it actually works.

Because cutting carbs works better.

 

Also, repeating an ignorant opinion doesn't make it any less ignorant.

 

HTH

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I think the premise here is they are very high in non-soliable? fiber that doesn't absorb... nobody is saying no veggies man. Thus you don't count those fiber man... they have minimal impact on your glycemic index.

Most of this is eating whole, organic, grass-fed etc non-processed foods... you stay away from dyes.. most syrups (corn, rice etc), box foods, fast food, sugar and all the sh!t that turns to sugar... etcm

Yeah, I’m on board with eating non-processed food, but just because something isn’t processed doesn’t mean it is healthy.

 

This site is a little sensational, but does a decent job summarizing some of the issues of low carbohydrates, focusing on the most famous iteration, the Atkins diet: http://atkinsexposed.org/index.html

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Yeah, I’m on board with eating non-processed food, but just because something isn’t processed doesn’t mean it is healthy.

 

This site is a little sensational, but does a decent job summarizing some of the issues of low carbohydrates, focusing on the most famous iteration, the Atkins diet: http://atkinsexposed.org/index.html

 

Atkins diet consists of eating a bunch of garbage.

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Atkins diet consists of eating a bunch of garbage.

Yeah.. its about the least nutrition adjusted of the bunch... other than carnivore, which isn't much different.

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Atkins diet consists of eating a bunch of garbage.

Yeah.. its about the least nutrition adjusted of the bunch... other than carnivore, which isn't much different.

Did you even look at the link? Many of the criticisms of Atkin's apply to any diet which promotes ketosis. The newer VLC diets are a little healthier, but excess animal protein and fat at the expense of healthy carbohydrates is going to bite you in the a$$ long term. The best data we have suggests ~30% increase in mortality when people adhere to the diets for 5+ years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3555979/pdf/pone.0055030.pdf

Fortunately, most people can't tolerate it that long, but why take the chance?

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It doesn't matter now... I gained it all back. :(

I only half followed keto last two weeks. Introduced some beer. Feared the worst.

Weigh in this morning only four gained back of the 16 lost.

 

Start again full swing Monday

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OK. Are there any fats or proteins that you avoid?

 

ETA I just read the list in your link. My criticism of the diet remains. Its funny they include non-starchy vegetables with fats, even though they are primarily carbohydrates.

 

Why do you object to his diet -- leafy greens, avocado, olives, nuts, fish, eggs -- it's basically a blue zone diet with slightly different ratios. :dunno:

 

I'm not a fan of grains in general. I eat legumes and high-fiber fruits, but don't find a lot of success with rice or bread so I mostly avoid them. I'll occasionally have bread at breakfast with eggs, or a sammich at lunch, generally sourdough. I had sushi with a customer today, I expect to be a few pounds heavier tomorrow from the rice, that's just how my body reacts.

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Why do you object to his diet -- leafy greens, avocado, olives, nuts, fish, eggs -- it's basically a blue zone diet with slightly different ratios. :dunno:

 

I'm not a fan of grains in general. I eat legumes and high-fiber fruits, but don't find a lot of success with rice or bread so I mostly avoid them.

This guy gets it.

 

:thumbsup:

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Question for penny: do you drink skim milk? Eat low fat salad dressing or yogurt? If so you aren't eating healthy, you should eat the real stuff. HTH. :thumbsup:

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Listen to the doctor keto cultists. When it comes to weight loss the only difference between low carb and CICO is your bad breath. :thumbsup:

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Listen to the doctor keto cultists. When it comes to weight loss the only difference between low carb and CICO is your bad breath. :thumbsup:

You're nothing more than a slight nuisance who has no clue what he's talking about.

 

You are aware of that, correct?

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You're nothing more than a slight nuisance who has no clue what he's talking about.

 

You are aware of that, correct?

This. And he is not. Most. Lueless posters are just that. Clueless

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Listen to the doctor keto cultists. When it comes to weight loss the only difference between low carb and CICO is your bad breath. :thumbsup:

 

You have a remarkable lack of knowledge on this topic. My advice is that you sit back and let the people who've researched nutrition discuss the pros and cons. HTH. :thumbsup:

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My surgeon that removed my gall bladder told me I had a fatty live and should go low carb, he asked if I like bacon, I said yea, he said good eat a lot of bacon and eggs. Eliminate bread. I did Atkins diet for a few months, lost 30 pounds, this was 3 years ago. I then went to a more normal diet but tried to avoid rice, bread and pasta but not as often as I used to, I gained 10 pounds. So net 20 pound loss and I've been eating normal for the last 2 years staying the exact same weight. I avoid fried foods though except once in a while. When my regular doctor saw my results he went on the Southbeach Diet and slimmed up and recommended it to his patients.

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My Doc eats keto... recommends it... though.. for he and I he said we need more carbs just to do the workouts we do.. energy wise. I told him when I get to my goal weight... say 220.. I'll see how I feel.. I'll probably add in more healthy type carbs... sweet potatoe... potatoe... etc...

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My Doc eats keto... recommends it... though.. for he and I he said we need more carbs just to do the workouts we do.. energy wise. I told him when I get to my goal weight... say 220.. I'll see how I feel.. I'll probably add in more healthy type carbs... sweet potatoe... potatoe... etc...

 

You don't need to eat carbs for your workouts, you need to train your body to burn fat. If you work out in the morning, skip breakfast altogether. You'll thank me later. :cheers:

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Why do you object to his diet -- leafy greens, avocado, olives, nuts, fish, eggs -- it's basically a blue zone diet with slightly different ratios. :dunno:

 

I'm not a fan of grains in general. I eat legumes and high-fiber fruits, but don't find a lot of success with rice or bread so I mostly avoid them. I'll occasionally have bread at breakfast with eggs, or a sammich at lunch, generally sourdough. I had sushi with a customer today, I expect to be a few pounds heavier tomorrow from the rice, that's just how my body reacts.

 

Inclusions which arent healthy: Lard, bone broth, meat, especially beef, grass fed or not. Bacon and dairy, which are advocated variably.

 

Exclusions which are healthy: Some fruits like apples, citrus, legumes, whole grains.

 

But the ratios are the biggest problem. The blue zone diets are no where near the fat or protein intake as VLC diets. Veggies, fruits, legumes, nuts and whole grains should be the bulk of ones diet, roughly 80-90% of caloric intake. Animal protein should be eaten sparingly. And training your body to metabolize fats is nonsense.

 

Basically, substitute animal protein and fat for carbohydrates in your description of an appropriate diet :thumbsup:

 

ETA Unless youre a competitive eater, there is no way you will gain a few pounds after a single meal

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Listen to the doctor keto cultists. When it comes to weight loss the only difference between low carb and CICO is your bad breath. :thumbsup:

Thats not true. Ketogenic diets are marginally better for short term weight loss, which is all our quick fix society wants. Nobody cares about the diet’s sustainability, or its long term health consequences, as long as they can continue to eat some of the sh!tty foods they crave. I also think people feel betrayed by the crappy low-fat processed foods which preceded the VLC craze - keto conveniently scapegoats carbohydrates while promoting the appeal to nature fallacy. While VLC advocates are right to eliminated processed foods, they throw the baby out with the bath water by demonizing the macronutrient which should make up the bulk of a healthy diet.

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