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tubby_mcgee

Some are calling Le'Veon Bell a genius.

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Normally I dont like holdouts but a RB of Bells caliber gets screwed by the franchise tag - hes just using the only leverage he has.

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Normally I dont like holdouts but a RB of Bells caliber gets screwed by the franchise tag - hes just using the only leverage he has.

When he hasnt signed a contract, it doesnt even really qualify as a holdout in my mind.

 

The way I see it, he isnt under contract to do anything. All Pit has done is find a way to reserve his rights at a certain salary if/when Bell decides to play again.

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Refusing a contract offer and taking back money are 2 totally different things.

 

Not sure what you are even trying to get at here.

 

Bell is witholding his services to obtain the money HE thinks he deserves, assuming they give him that money, then suppose he does not perform at the some level, he is not meeting his end of the arrangement so they get their money back.....right?

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If we step back and look at it objectively....

 

Bell and the Steelers couldn't agree on a contract for 2018. The Steelers responded by using the CBA to their advantage and to Bell's detriment. If Bell holds out until week 10, he is simply using the same CBA to his advantage and the Steelers detriment.

 

If Bell didn't want the Steelers to use the tools available to them, he should have agreed to a deal. If the Steelers didn't want Bell to use the tools available to him, they should have agreed to a deal. This is the risk they both decided to take, and they are equally at fault for whatever happens.

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Bell is witholding his services to obtain the money HE thinks he deserves, assuming they give him that money, then suppose he does not perform at the some level, he is not meeting his end of the arrangement so they get their money back.....right?

Would be different if he was holding out tight in the middle of a contract he signed up for. Hell if any holdout makes sense it is this one compared to a player who doesnt play out hos contract.

 

The franchise is a thing so steelers arent at fault here. But it changes the dynamics in my opinion. Like others have said the next CBA meet will be interesting.

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If we step back and look at it objectively....

 

Bell and the Steelers couldn't agree on a contract for 2018. The Steelers responded by using the CBA to their advantage and to Bell's detriment. If Bell holds out until week 10, he is simply using the same CBA to his advantage and the Steelers detriment.

 

If Bell didn't want the Steelers to use the tools available to them, he should have agreed to a deal. If the Steelers didn't want Bell to use the tools available to him, they should have agreed to a deal. This is the risk they both decided to take, and they are equally at fault for whatever happens.

Well said

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If we step back and look at it objectively....

 

Bell and the Steelers couldn't agree on a contract for 2018. The Steelers responded by using the CBA to their advantage and to Bell's detriment. If Bell holds out until week 10, he is simply using the same CBA to his advantage and the Steelers detriment.

 

If Bell didn't want the Steelers to use the tools available to them, he should have agreed to a deal. If the Steelers didn't want Bell to use the tools available to him, they should have agreed to a deal. This is the risk they both decided to take, and they are equally at fault for whatever happens.

 

Works for me. Neither party is a "genius" or a problem or whatever.

 

Though it is really rare to see players not holding the party line, highly unusual, makes me wonder what else is in play that we do not know about.

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Didn't Emmitt Smith do this with the cowboys one of their Super Bowl years?

Yes, and I wasn't happy about it either.

 

Jerry really was trying to screw Emmitt over and Jerry eventually caved - Emmitt didn't hold out and sign the deal that was on the table all along.

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He said he's not playing yet because the Steelers were going to use him too much.

 

Its time that more NFL players follow his head. They need to demand less playing time. What the NFL is doing to these humans should be considered torture.

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He said he's not playing yet because the Steelers were going to use him too much.

 

Its time that more NFL players follow his head. They need to demand less playing time. What the NFL is doing to these humans should be considered torture.

 

You clearly don't understand the issues in regards to his position, age, touches and the history involved, etc. But at least your lack of knowledge is better than the other beliefs you have being a factor in your thinking Bell should be forced to sign a contract that he doesn't want to sign when others want him to sign it.

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You clearly don't understand the issues in regards to his position, age, touches and the history involved, etc. But at least your lack of knowledge is better than the other beliefs you have being a factor in your thinking Bell should be forced to sign a contract that he doesn't want to sign when others want him to sign it.

 

 

He doesn't have to sign it. I don't think he should be forced to and I don't think he should sign. I think he should show others that he is serious by simply retiring.

 

And yes, I do understand. But but a player, ahead of time, saying "They're gonna use me to too much" -- lol.

 

So where did the Steelers say they are going to run him into the ground? I missed the part where someone from the Steelers said anything like that.

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He had the most carries and most catches of his career last year.....on the franchise tag.

Yep. He earned a long term contract. Fock Pit.

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Its time that more NFL players follow his head. They need to demand less playing time. What the NFL is doing to these humans should be considered torture.

That's a hard argument to make when the tortured soul is being paid $14.5m a year.......for about 5 months worth of work.

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He had the most carries and most catches of his career last year.....on the franchise tag.

 

That's an under statement. There was a 15% gap in touches between #1 and #2, then only a 17% gap between #2 and #10 in touches. The Steelers clearly have zero interest in his long term health or his career.

 

1. Le'Veon BellPIT 406 2. LeSean McCoyBUF 346 3. Todd GurleyLAR 343 4. Melvin GordonLAC 342 5. Kareem HuntKAN 325 6. Leonard FournetteJAX 304 7. Jordan HowardCHI 299 Carlos HydeSFO 299 9. Frank GoreIND 290 10. Mark IngramNOR 288

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I believe they offered him 14 per, he wanted 17..

:dunno:

 

Their offer only included $10m total in guarantees. If he shows up by week 5 now, he gets more than that guaranteed under the tag. Had he signed their fake longterm offer, they would have given him 430 touches and cut him next off season, and actually saved money compared to the Franchise tag they now want him to sign. In other words, they didn't make him a real offer and the one we heard about was just for the sake of the PR game.

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Their offer only included $10m total in guarantees. If he shows up by week 5 now, he gets more than that guaranteed under the tag. Had he signed their fake longterm offer, they would have given him 430 touches and cut him next off season, and actually saved money compared to the Franchise tag they now want him to sign. In other words, they didn't make him a real offer and the one we heard about was just for the sake of the PR game.

 

I agree, 2 more years though. They would cut him after next year.

 

He's not going to get the amount of guaranteed money Gurley was offered because of age.

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That's a hard argument to make when the tortured soul is being paid $14.5m a year.......for about 5 months worth of work.

 

 

I was being sarcastic, Cruzer. I hope you realize that.

 

And yes...Emmitt Smith did it in 1993 I believe. First ever team to start 0-2 and win SB. Emmitts big quote at the end of the season...."Its not where you start it's where you finish".

 

I was young and dumb then. I guess my only thought at the time was "Geez I hope Emmitt signs" and "Come on Jerry, do what it takes to get Emmitt back on the field".

 

My mindset is obviously different now. If a Elliot did the same thing...I'd have same stance on him as I do on Bell.

 

As I said, the players earn what they make. They aren't overpaid. They bring in the money, they deserve the money. BUT...I agree with you 100%.... when you are getting 14.5 million, or 20 million, or 7 million for 5 months of work....FOR FOCK SAKE....don't give us "I'm a poor wittle NFL RB and I need more because I don't have the street cred he has" Fawwwwwwk you.

 

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I was being sarcastic, Cruzer. I hope you realize that.

 

And yes...Emmitt Smith did it in 1993 I believe. First ever team to start 0-2 and win SB. Emmitts big quote at the end of the season...."Its not where you start it's where you finish".

 

I was young and dumb then. I guess my only thought at the time was "Geez I hope Emmitt signs" and "Come on Jerry, do what it takes to get Emmitt back on the field".

 

My mindset is obviously different now. If a Elliot did the same thing...I'd have same stance on him as I do on Bell.

 

As I said, the players earn what they make. They aren't overpaid. They bring in the money, they deserve the money. BUT...I agree with you 100%.... when you are getting 14.5 million, or 20 million, or 7 million for 5 months of work....FOR FOCK SAKE....don't give us "I'm a poor wittle NFL RB and I need more because I don't have the street cred he has" Fawwwwwwk you.

 

You have no concept of relativity. Think big, not small

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Their offer only included $10m total in guarantees. If he shows up by week 5 now, he gets more than that guaranteed under the tag. Had he signed their fake longterm offer, they would have given him 430 touches and cut him next off season, and actually saved money compared to the Franchise tag they now want him to sign. In other words, they didn't make him a real offer and the one we heard about was just for the sake of the PR game.

When they offered it I thought what a joke, who isn't going to see right through that offer? I guess I underestimated the fan base

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so in what world does a player want the ball less

I think Bell is fine getting that many touches so long as he feels like he is maximizing his return for them. He hasn't even had the opportunity to get his 2nd contract yet. He is still working off of his original contract. I would be pretty pissed if my team ran me into the ground before I could even negotiate one free agent contract. And look at guys like Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson. Some guys fall off after that many touches in consecutive seasons. Not everyone can be Frank Gore or Ladanian Tomlinson

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so in what world does a player want the ball less

Um. A guy that gets a crazy amount of use who is looking for his last big contract but is getting locked down by 1 year deals.

 

I thought this was obvious. It is like we are all yelling into a black hole and you cant hear anything.

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If I was Pittsburgh Id let him walk. Kevin Colbert has a job too and its not to over spend on players. Over 1,500 touches in 5 years and only averaged 4.0 YPC last year. Cya!

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If I was Pittsburgh Id let him walk. Kevin Colbert has a job too and its not to over spend on players. Over 1,500 touches in 5 years and only averaged 4.0 YPC last year. Cya!

Yeah, he sux. :rolleyes:

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I wouldnt pay him either. I wouldnt have franchised him either when you know what he might do. Fairly dumb move and money that could have been spent elsewhere.

 

But I back Bell's stance.

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Yeah, he sux. :rolleyes:

He isnt worth what he is asking and wouldnt be surprised if he played a full season his YPC dipped under 4.0 and in 2019 what would it be? 3.3? Youve seen this a million times. Good money management by Colbert. Its why the guys had his job since 2000 and they will continue to be competitive even with that sh!t head coach of theirs.

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Bell is witholding his services to obtain the money HE thinks he deserves, assuming they give him that money, then suppose he does not perform at the some level, he is not meeting his end of the arrangement so they get their money back.....right?

 

These are not two sides of the same coin. That would be either:

  • Bell can refuse to sign if he thinks he deserves more money or the team can refuse to sign if they don't think he deserves more money

The flipside of your "can they take money if he underperforms" argument are:

  • Team can take money back if he underperforms but Bell can get extra money if he overperforms (which he's arguably done every single year).

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These are not two sides of the same coin. That would be either:

  • Bell can refuse to sign if he thinks he deserves more money or the team can refuse to sign if they don't think he deserves more money

The flipside of your "can they take money if he underperforms" argument are:

  • Team can take money back if he underperforms but Bell can get extra money if he overperforms (which he's arguably done every single year).

 

 

I am ok with pay for performance....

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  • Team can take money back if he underperforms but Bell can get extra money if he overperforms (which he's arguably done every single year).

 

 

Thinking more on this, this is exactly what those incentive heavy contracts are.

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My opinion though is that this is just Bell trying to get out of Pittsburgh. He's pissed a deal has not been made and is done with the Steelers. My guess, Steelers trade him before week 5 and he signs a monster deal somewhere.

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My opinion though is that this is just Bell trying to get out of Pittsburgh. He's pissed a deal has not been made and is done with the Steelers. My guess, Steelers trade him before week 5 and he signs a monster deal somewhere.

 

Maybe, it seems like that would be a wise course of action.

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My opinion though is that this is just Bell trying to get out of Pittsburgh. He's pissed a deal has not been made and is done with the Steelers. My guess, Steelers trade him before week 5 and he signs a monster deal somewhere.

I do not think they can trade him until he either signs a contract or the tender.

 

I know this. If the Steelers have a bad year and he comes in week 10 they need to hand him the ball on every play. I am sure the O line will protect him at that point.

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I do not think they can trade him until he either signs a contract or the tender.

 

I know this. If the Steelers have a bad year and he comes in week 10 they need to hand him the ball on every play. I am sure the O line will protect him at that point.

 

The way I understand it is the only way he can get a multi-year deal is by signing with another team through a trade. He can do a single year deal or sign his franchise tender to stay with Pittsburgh and then at the end of this year, he'll be a UFA. The only way for the Steelers to get anything from him after this year is to trade him now. I'm sure there's some contender out there that will ship them something for him.

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I know if Pit rescinds the Franchise Tag, he becomes a free agent. Obviously there would have to be some wink/wink stuff, but couldn't they negotiate a long term deal secretly, then rescind the Franchise Tag, then as a free agent he signs a long term deal with The Steelers that is fair?

 

Seems like the only way everyone wins in this instance.

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I know if Pit rescinds the Franchise Tag, he becomes a free agent. Obviously there would have to be some wink/wink stuff, but couldn't they negotiate a long term deal secretly, then rescind the Franchise Tag, then as a free agent he signs a long term deal with The Steelers that is fair?

 

Seems like the only way everyone wins in this instance.

I think if they could have come to a long term deal they would have done so before the deadline. I think at this point neither side is interested in that. I think at this point it is just when he signs the tender offer. Week 2 or 11. This will put a big wrinkle in their season either way.

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Um. A guy that gets a crazy amount of use who is looking for his last big contract but is getting locked down by 1 year deals.

 

I thought this was obvious. It is like we are all yelling into a black hole and you cant hear anything.

 

so what you are saying is you have a guy playing a position that has a short shelf life, that already makes more than any RB under the franchise tag by almost 50% more (14.5 mil vs 10.5 for Mckinnon), that thinks this is going to get him more than a 2-3 year deal anyways?

 

he should show up collect his 14 mil and then hope to get franchised again

 

his free agent contract would likely be in the 3/30 range, I don't know why he can't see that

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