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Harper and Machado, what gives?

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5 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

If Harper wanted to play in Philly he would have signed already.  He still will probably sign, but  it not getting off the right foot. I put 75% Philly, 25% DC.

 

 

I assumed Scott Boras using the Padres and White Sox to squeeze every dollar out of Philly they can get. 

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1 minute ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Greed has a funny way of focking with your head....

I agree. MLB owners should stop being so greedy and pony up to field the best teams they possibly can instead of crying poor. :thumbsup:

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Just now, MDC said:

I assumed Scott Boras using the Padres and White Sox to squeeze every dollar out of Philly they can get. 

And you are right.  Boros has turned Harper into a mercenary.  I am not sure why. 

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2 minutes ago, MDC said:

I agree. MLB owners should stop being so greedy and pony up to field the best teams they possibly can instead of crying poor. :thumbsup:

I think the players should take on the risk of owning a team, then they too can earn the benefits that comes with overcoming the risks....^_^

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5 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

And you are right.  Boros has turned Harper into a mercenary.  I am not sure why. 

Dunno. I guess Harper likes money. That’s why you hire Boras.

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3 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

I think the players should take on the risk of owning a team, then they too can earn the benefits that comes with overcoming the risks....^_^

Dumb.

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1 minute ago, MDC said:

Dunno. I guess Harper likes money. That’s why you hire Boras.

Mercenaries do everything for money.  Harper is a good guy, the money will only get in the way.  Philly isn't where the faint of heart go to excel.

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1 minute ago, MDC said:

Dumb.

It's about the level of argument I would expect from you. 

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3 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Mercenaries do everything for money.  Harper is a good guy, the money will only get in the way.  Philly isn't where the faint of heart go to excel.

Don’t know much about Harper personally but he would be batting 3-4 after Segura / Realmuto and before Hoskins and Franco with McCutchen in the mix. That’s a potentially deadly hitting lineup.

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Fock'm both.

Has a team ever signed a superstar player to a monster deal - and it paid off?

 

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5 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

It's about the level of argument I would expect from you. 

It’s about the level your statement deserves. MLB revenues have roughly quadrupled in the past 25 years through TV deals while payrolls as a % of revenue has gone down. Owners who cry poor and don’t even kick the tires on free agents like Harper and Machado are doing it entirely to put more $ in their own pockets. The players are just more visible and that’s why dummies accuse them of greed instead of ownership. There is no “risk” to owning an MLB franchise - they’re all printing money.

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6 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Fock'm both.

Has a team ever signed a superstar player to a monster deal - and it paid off?

 

The Yanks paid A-Roid $300M and he managed to help them win 1 WS.  They expected much more.  He was a no show too often in October.  

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9 minutes ago, MDC said:

It’s about the level your statement deserves. MLB revenues have roughly quadrupled in the past 25 years through TV deals while payrolls as a % of revenue has gone down. Owners who cry poor and don’t even kick the tires on free agents like Harper and Machado are doing it entirely to put more $ in their own pockets. The players are just more visible and that’s why dummies accuse them of greed instead of ownership. There is no “risk” to owning an MLB franchise - they’re all printing money.

You make a sound justification for players taking on that risk associated with ownership, well done. Of course, then they would have to face the incessant whining of people who think they can decide the value of their labor, that might dissuade them....

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Just now, vuduchile said:

The Yanks paid A-Roid $300M and he managed to help them win 1 WS.  They expected much more.  He was a no show too often in October.  

Yea he was about the only one that came to mind.. But I'm not sure he was the $300m linchpin to those titles as much as others were...maybe, idk.

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4 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Yea he was about the only one that came to mind.. But I'm not sure he was the $300m linchpin to those titles as much as others were...maybe, idk.

There are plenty of examples of teams handing over idiotic money to some turd who never deserved it.

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38 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Greed has a funny way of focking with your head....

It's not greed.  $300M or more?  That will pay any bills you could possibly have.

For elite athletes, pay is how they measure their respect.  Harper and Machado want to be paid the most and not have some similar talent come along next year and make more.

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3 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

You make a sound justification for players taking on that risk associated with ownership, well done. Of course, then they would have to face the incessant whining of people who think they can decide the value of their labor, that might dissuade them....

Dumb.

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1 minute ago, MDC said:

Dumb.

Of course.....😂

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8 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Of course.....😂

Garbage in garbage out buddy. 

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You guys are looking at things in too much of contracts and not enough of details.  Some are just looking at the MLB aspect of it and not the overall entity of the teams.  Teams are also paying for their minor league affiliates every year.  Teams also are paying out contract bonuses to players that people generally overlook... especially to the guys in the minors.  Teams are also ponying up money for medical costs that jump every year... as well as taxes.  The MLB has been consistently been paying players more than 55% of the league revenues over than last handful of seasons.  The NBA, NHL, and NFL whom all have salary caps are pretty much at 50/50.

 

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/2/21/17035624/mlb-revenue-sharing-owners-players-free-agency-rob-manfred

 

Let's not forget the fact that not all money is the same across the board.  If Harper signs a contract for $35M AAV in California, that net is going to be less than if he signs for $25M AAV in Florida.

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45 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

There are plenty of examples of teams handing over idiotic money to some turd who never deserved it.

I know, that was my point.. I was trying to think of it ever happening and it actually pay off.

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9 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

I know, that was my point.. I was trying to think of it ever happening and it actually pay off.

Damb....that is a tough one, I know there are some out there, but it would take some time to actually find one.....

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What gives is that GM have become much much better at determining the true value of a player(moneyball saber-metric economics).  The players are still envisioning getting those 300M ARod contracts that were awarded when the individual value of a players worth to the team was a little bit more nebulous, but those days are gone.  And I'm sure their agents have sold them on this fantasy, but it's not going to happen.    Teams aren't going to pay a Harper 30M a year, when they can pay Christian Yelich 20M and get the same production.

IMO, you will see far less of the ARod salaries, but the floor will raise as guys who were considered average/okay are shown to produce more than previously realized.   The overall money will stay the same, but the distribution will change.   

Also, Machado's an azz, so fock him.   

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5 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

What gives is that GM have become much much better at determining the true value of a player(moneyball saber-metric economics).  The players are still envisioning getting those 300M ARod contracts that were awarded when the individual value of a players worth to the team was a little bit more nebulous, but those days are gone.  And I'm sure their agents have sold them on this fantasy, but it's not going to happen.    Teams aren't going to pay a Harper 30M a year, when they can pay Christian Yelich 20M and get the same production.

IMO, you will see far less of the ARod salaries, but the floor will raise as guys who were considered average/okay are shown to produce more than previously realized.   The overall money will stay the same, but the distribution will change.   

Also, Machado's an azz, so fock him.   

 

This is very true.  Also, GM's can get away with things even cheaper.  For example, Freddie Freeman is going to make a touch over $20M over the next 4 years and produce around a .900 OPS.  Why pay a guy like that $20M when you can probably get 2 platoon guys who will be about .900 OPS guys when combined and pay them $14M total?  You don't need to pay 1 guy $30M when you can pay 2 guys $20M for similar production and better flexibility?

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15 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Damb....that is a tough one, I know there are some out there, but it would take some time to actually find one.....

I think the fact we have to actually sit back and think about it - goes to the point... I honestly can't think of one. A-Rod comes closest, but I'm not even sure he was it.

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8 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

I think the fact we have to actually sit back and think about it - goes to the point... I honestly can't think of one. A-Rod comes closest, but I'm not even sure he was it.

Maybe.....Manny Ramirez?

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2 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Maybe.....Manny Ramirez?

Now that's a good one. And true to form, I believe that deal made him the highest paid player in baseball (at the time).

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10 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They have one of the top farm systems in the leauge. 

They always do. They can not manage their club though.

Cubs got Rizzo from them for Cashner and Kyung-Min Na.

:doublethumbsup:

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1 minute ago, posty said:

Mochado to Padres...  Ten year/$300 million, opt-out after year five...

 

Who has the option?  Padres or Machado?

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

Who has the option?  Padres or Machado?

Machado

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

Who has the option?  Padres or Machado?

Im guessing it's got to be his, no way he agrees to an option after 5 years.  

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1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Im guessing it's got to be his, no way he agrees to an option after 5 years.  

My thinking was that the Padres wouldn't go 10 if they didn't have an "out".  But, the $30M AAV kinds of makes sense though, with a 10-year deal.  From all the talk, I didn't think these guys would get more than $30M if they wanted more than 7 years.

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Of the two, I think Machado is the better bet on a long term contract.   Provides value in the field and at the plate as a middle-inf.   Petco isn't going to help his numbers though.    

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3 hours ago, RaiderHater's Revenge said:

why?  These aren't your typical 32 year olds getting 10 year deals, these are 26 year olds who have 7 years of prime baseball at least left

 

Show me ONE 10 year deal that has EVER worked out? ONE 

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2 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Of the two, I think Machado is the better bet on a long term contract.   Provides value in the field and at the plate as a middle-inf.   Petco isn't going to help his numbers though.    

I think you're right if the NL doesn't move to a DH.  Harper is awful as a fielder because I don't think he cares enough to even try to better himself.  He just wants to hit.  If the NL stays as is, I totally agree with you that Machado is a safer bet.  Otherwise, I think Harper would be... or if Harper ends up in the AL.

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Just now, kilroy69 said:

Show me ONE 10 year deal that has EVER worked out? ONE 

Are just sticking to baseball for this question?

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2 hours ago, Cruzer said:

I know, that was my point.. I was trying to think of it ever happening and it actually pay off.

Manny Ramirez -  8 years, 160 million in 2000 (with 2 team options)

 

Other than Gayrod who signed hours later, that was the highest anyone had been paid at the time.

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