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kilroy69

If Nick foles wins a 2nd Superbowl

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Is he a hof qb based off that alone?

No.

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is Eli?

Yes.

 

Eli has oh a few more tds and yards.

 

Nice try.

 

Night.

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Yes Eli is a HOF qb in my books. Just because he is declining with age, doesn't make his 2 SB wins over TB12 (arguably the greatest ever) any less worthy.

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Ok. So what if he wins this year. Switches teams and wins again. How many Superbowl wins as a QB make you a hof qb with little stats ?

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Ok. So what if he wins this year. Switches teams and wins again. How many Superbowl wins as a QB make you a hof qb with little stats ?

 

2 wins with little stats makes him a statistical oddity that occasionally gets whispered as a HOF candidate but never taken seriously.

 

3 wins with little stats and I think he gets in eventually, just not first ballot. He'd wait a while.

 

4 wins and first ballot.

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Ok. So what if he wins this year. Switches teams and wins again. How many Superbowl wins as a QB make you a hof qb with little stats ?

Will how many stats does it take to get in the HOF without a single super bowl win?

 

First think about Foles, I need to see him win a second super bowl and then see him actually lead a team for the whole season and then win a third.

 

I think Saints and Rams both roll next weekend, so I don’t see him winning his second.

 

Thanks.

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Yes.

 

Eli has oh a few more tds and yards.

 

Nice try.

 

Night.

ok. So let me reframe the question a little. At what point do ONLY Superbowls count? Dan Marino. Great qb. Never won the bowl. What of some guy comes along and wins 2 as a backup and 1 outright. Is that a hof qb?

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Yes.

 

Eli has oh a few more tds and yards.

 

Nice try.

 

Night.

It's not all that simple. Eli has played his career in an era where 4000 passing yards in a season doesn't crack the top 10 in most years now. His stats are largely a product of his longevity.

 

Not counting 2004 when he threw for about 1100 yards in 9 games played, he's finished in the top 5 in passing yards 3 times and outside the top 10 in 7 of his 14 full seasons. That's just not HOF level play in my book. Granted, the NFL hall of fame is really the Hall of good, but if Eli gets in, it becomes the Hall of above average.

 

2005 - 5th

2006 - 11th

2007 - 12th

2008 - 17th

2009 - 10th

2010 - 5th

2011 - 4th

2012 - 12th

2013 - 14th

2014 - 6th

2015 - 6th

2016 - 13th

2017 - 15th

2018 - 9th

 

If you compare his career numbers to his HOF peers or lock HOF peers of his era...

Peyton Manning 71,940 yards / 539 TD's / 96.5 QBR / 65.3 CPL% / .685 Win %

Drew Brees 74,437 yards / 520 TD's / 97.7 QBR / 67.3 CPL% / .587 Win %

Tom Brady 70,514 yards / 517 TD's / 97.6 QBR / 64.0 CPL% / .770 Win%

Aaron Rodgers 42,944 yards / 338 TD's / 103.1 QBR / 64.8 CPL% / .629 Win %

Ben Roethlisberger 56,194 yards / 363 TD's / 94.2 QBR / 64.4 CPL% / .670 Win %

Kurt Warner 32.344 yards / 208 TD's / 93.7 QBR / 65.5 CPL% / .589 Win %

 

Honestly I could easily keep Eli out of that group but for Kurt Warner. He was a very good QB but only really had 6 full seasons and 8 seasons over 10 games. But if I exclude him for comparison basis because he doesn't have the longevity to compare some of the career numbers, there's no way Eli belongs on that list. In particular his QBR, Win %, and completion percentage are significantly lower than anyone on that list.

 

The only argument left is do you start giving out career longevity awards.

 

Eli Manning 55,981 yards / 360 TD's / 84.1 QBR / 60.3 CPL% / .512 Win %

Philip Rivers 54,656 yards / 374 TD's / 95.6 QBR / 64.5 CPL%/ .564 Win %

 

You've got one QB with decent numbers across the board but no titles, and one with the yards and TD's but pretty average metrics and 2 SB titles. Do these guys stats really measure up to those players above? Eli's clearly don't without the titles. Rivers are closer, but he's got no rings to date. Honestly I hope neither gets in, but I'd put Rivers in over Eli. Sadly they'll likely both make it simply because they've played for so long.

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It's not all that simple. Eli has played his career in an era where 4000 passing yards in a season doesn't crack the top 10 in most years now. His stats are largely a product of his longevity.

 

Not counting 2004 when he threw for about 1100 yards in 9 games played, he's finished in the top 5 in passing yards 3 times and outside the top 10 in 7 of his 14 full seasons. That's just not HOF level play in my book. Granted, the NFL hall of fame is really the Hall of good, but if Eli gets in, it becomes the Hall of above average.

 

2005 - 5th

2006 - 11th

2007 - 12th

2008 - 17th

2009 - 10th

2010 - 5th

2011 - 4th

2012 - 12th

2013 - 14th

2014 - 6th

2015 - 6th

2016 - 13th

2017 - 15th

2018 - 9th

 

If you compare his career numbers to his HOF peers or lock HOF peers of his era...

Peyton Manning 71,940 yards / 539 TD's / 96.5 QBR / 65.3 CPL% / .685 Win %

Drew Brees 74,437 yards / 520 TD's / 97.7 QBR / 67.3 CPL% / .587 Win %

Tom Brady 70,514 yards / 517 TD's / 97.6 QBR / 64.0 CPL% / .770 Win%

Aaron Rodgers 42,944 yards / 338 TD's / 103.1 QBR / 64.8 CPL% / .629 Win %

Ben Roethlisberger 56,194 yards / 363 TD's / 94.2 QBR / 64.4 CPL% / .670 Win %

Kurt Warner 32.344 yards / 208 TD's / 93.7 QBR / 65.5 CPL% / .589 Win %

 

Honestly I could easily keep Eli out of that group but for Kurt Warner. He was a very good QB but only really had 6 full seasons and 8 seasons over 10 games. But if I exclude him for comparison basis because he doesn't have the longevity to compare some of the career numbers, there's no way Eli belongs on that list. In particular his QBR, Win %, and completion percentage are significantly lower than anyone on that list.

 

The only argument left is do you start giving out career longevity awards.

 

Eli Manning 55,981 yards / 360 TD's / 84.1 QBR / 60.3 CPL% / .512 Win %

Philip Rivers 54,656 yards / 374 TD's / 95.6 QBR / 64.5 CPL%/ .564 Win %

 

You've got one QB with decent numbers across the board but no titles, and one with the yards and TD's but pretty average metrics and 2 SB titles. Do these guys stats really measure up to those players above? Eli's clearly don't without the titles. Rivers are closer, but he's got no rings to date. Honestly I hope neither gets in, but I'd put Rivers in over Eli. Sadly they'll likely both make it simply because they've played for so long.

I dont disagree, but I suspect he will get in based on his 2 superbowl rings.

 

I could be wrong, but I dont think I will be.

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If Nick Foles Leads THIS Eagles Team to a Super Bowl Title, and I mean winning it not just getting there, than yes he should get serious consideration for the HOF

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What is the NFL Hall of Fame? Is it the NFL Hall of "Good Enough Stats"?

 

IMO, Plunkett, Eli Manning and Foles should all be in there. Any QB who wins a Superbowl and does some incredible things along the way to make him "Fame"ous should qualify. IMO, The Hall of Fame is there to tell a story about the famous players who made history.. period.

 

Nick Foles did something incredible.. the TD catch by Foles on the trick play is something I'd want my kid to see in a place like the Hall of Fame.

 

Enough of this BS of what qualifies and what doesn't ..

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It's not all that simple. Eli has played his career in an era where 4000 passing yards in a season doesn't crack the top 10 in most years now. His stats are largely a product of his longevity.

 

Not counting 2004 when he threw for about 1100 yards in 9 games played, he's finished in the top 5 in passing yards 3 times and outside the top 10 in 7 of his 14 full seasons. That's just not HOF level play in my book. Granted, the NFL hall of fame is really the Hall of good, but if Eli gets in, it becomes the Hall of above average.

 

2005 - 5th

2006 - 11th

2007 - 12th

2008 - 17th

2009 - 10th

2010 - 5th

2011 - 4th

2012 - 12th

2013 - 14th

2014 - 6th

2015 - 6th

2016 - 13th

2017 - 15th

2018 - 9th

 

If you compare his career numbers to his HOF peers or lock HOF peers of his era...

Peyton Manning 71,940 yards / 539 TD's / 96.5 QBR / 65.3 CPL% / .685 Win %

Drew Brees 74,437 yards / 520 TD's / 97.7 QBR / 67.3 CPL% / .587 Win %

Tom Brady 70,514 yards / 517 TD's / 97.6 QBR / 64.0 CPL% / .770 Win%

Aaron Rodgers 42,944 yards / 338 TD's / 103.1 QBR / 64.8 CPL% / .629 Win %

Ben Roethlisberger 56,194 yards / 363 TD's / 94.2 QBR / 64.4 CPL% / .670 Win %

Kurt Warner 32.344 yards / 208 TD's / 93.7 QBR / 65.5 CPL% / .589 Win %

 

Honestly I could easily keep Eli out of that group but for Kurt Warner. He was a very good QB but only really had 6 full seasons and 8 seasons over 10 games. But if I exclude him for comparison basis because he doesn't have the longevity to compare some of the career numbers, there's no way Eli belongs on that list. In particular his QBR, Win %, and completion percentage are significantly lower than anyone on that list.

 

The only argument left is do you start giving out career longevity awards.

 

Eli Manning 55,981 yards / 360 TD's / 84.1 QBR / 60.3 CPL% / .512 Win %

Philip Rivers 54,656 yards / 374 TD's / 95.6 QBR / 64.5 CPL%/ .564 Win %

 

You've got one QB with decent numbers across the board but no titles, and one with the yards and TD's but pretty average metrics and 2 SB titles. Do these guys stats really measure up to those players above? Eli's clearly don't without the titles. Rivers are closer, but he's got no rings to date. Honestly I hope neither gets in, but I'd put Rivers in over Eli. Sadly they'll likely both make it simply because they've played for so long.

 

They already give out longevity awards don’t they?

 

Players like T Davis comes to mind. When he retired that was the talk, did he play long enough and was he good long enough.

 

I don’t have a vote, but I don’t see how Eli isn’t going to make it.

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What is the NFL Hall of Fame? Is it the NFL Hall of "Good Enough Stats"?

 

IMO, Plunkett, Eli Manning and Foles should all be in there. Any QB who wins a Superbowl and does some incredible things along the way to make him "Fame"ous should qualify. IMO, The Hall of Fame is there to tell a story about the famous players who made history.. period.

 

Nick Foles did something incredible.. the TD catch by Foles on the trick play is something I'd want my kid to see in a place like the Hall of Fame.

 

Enough of this BS of what qualifies and what doesn't ..

 

Lol ok.

 

I think your last statement is right on, now you need to convince those that vote.

 

Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee: He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Psalm 55:22

Amen

God Bless.

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well, one thing I will say for sure.... if he wins another SB, I think there will be no shortage of teams looking to pay him handsomely to play for their team.

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Lol ok.

 

I think your last statement is right on, now you need to convince those that vote.

 

Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and He shall sustain thee: He shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Psalm 55:22

Amen

God Bless.

Thank you weepaws.. I need sustaining.

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What is the NFL Hall of Fame? Is it the NFL Hall of "Good Enough Stats"?

 

IMO, Plunkett, Eli Manning and Foles should all be in there. Any QB who wins a Superbowl and does some incredible things along the way to make him "Fame"ous should qualify. IMO, The Hall of Fame is there to tell a story about the famous players who made history.. period.

 

Nick Foles did something incredible.. the TD catch by Foles on the trick play is something I'd want my kid to see in a place like the Hall of Fame.

 

Enough of this BS of what qualifies and what doesn't ..

 

That's because you're creating your own definition of the "Hall of Fame" instead of the intent. The actual intent of ALL "Hall of Fame" museums is the have the best of best be put on display as players who were the greatest of their time. It's not intended to show case every player who did one or two things that are exceptional. Your achievements can be noted in the Hall of Fame if you've done something out of the norm, without actually being inducted into the Hall of Fame. An example of that is Cadillac Williams. His jersey and cleats are on display at the Hall of Fame for his first 4 career games, but you will not see an enshrinement of Williams within the walls.

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That's because you're creating your own definition of the "Hall of Fame" instead of the intent. The actual intent of ALL "Hall of Fame" museums is the have the best of best be put on display as players who were the greatest of their time. It's not intended to show case every player who did one or two things that are exceptional. Your achievements can be noted in the Hall of Fame if you've done something out of the norm, without actually being inducted into the Hall of Fame. An example of that is Cadillac Williams. His jersey and cleats are on display at the Hall of Fame for his first 4 career games, but you will not see an enshrinement of Williams within the walls.

Makes sense...

 

Just get tired of the politics of it all.

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Makes sense...

 

Just get tired of the politics of it all.

 

Politics have always been involved when it comes to the HOF.

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well, one thing I will say for sure.... if he wins another SB, I think there will be no shortage of teams looking to pay him handsomely to play for their team.

I think even if he doesn’t.

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It's not all that simple. Eli has played his career in an era where 4000 passing yards in a season doesn't crack the top 10 in most years now. His stats are largely a product of his longevity.

 

Not counting 2004 when he threw for about 1100 yards in 9 games played, he's finished in the top 5 in passing yards 3 times and outside the top 10 in 7 of his 14 full seasons. That's just not HOF level play in my book. Granted, the NFL hall of fame is really the Hall of good, but if Eli gets in, it becomes the Hall of above average.

And he's had pretty good talent to throw to most of those years.

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And he's had pretty good talent to throw to most of those years.

I don't think he had bad weapons but no premium Pass Catchers that I can think of. Shockey and late career Plaxico were fine options and OBJ came along right before his decline.

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I don't think he had bad weapons but no premium Pass Catchers that I can think of. Shockey and late career Plaxico were fine options and OBJ came along right before his decline.

Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, S Smith, M Manningham are some others. I think we agree, pretty good talent there over the years.

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No mention of Aikman? Easily the worst statistical HOF QB of the modern era. 3 rings make a difference.

 

Foles has no shot right now, even with 2 rings. Now suppose he wins this year, and the Eagles wise up, trade Wentz and keep Foles. And he wins again. That would be a debate.

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2 wins with little stats makes him a statistical oddity that occasionally gets whispered as a HOF candidate but never taken seriously.

 

3 wins with little stats and I think he gets in eventually, just not first ballot. He'd wait a while.

 

4 wins and first ballot.

 

By these rules, how in the world did Kurt Warner get in? lol He has only one win and his career was brief. Granted, he made more than one, but he only won one.

 

I don't care about stats. I care about leadership, which is why I was on board with Warner going in the HoF. IF Foles were to win this year (a massive IF, but I'm playing along), he absolutely should, in my mind, be in the HoF. Look, Jerome Bettis doesn't deserve to be in there. His numbers are no better overall than a crap load of RB's who aren't in there. He got in on public sentiment. Warner's story alone made him worthy, nevermind the fact he was a true leader as well. If Foles wins two, as a backup, give the dude his own room in the HoF and put his story on a plaque. It would be one of the great NFL stories of all time.

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Bettie 13662 rushing yards and 91 rushing tds, and 200 rec, 1449 yards plus 3 tds.

 

Those number are worthy of HOF.

 

Foles has played in 54 of a possible 112 reg season games.

 

He’s avg 1595 passing yards per season over seven seasons.

 

And 9 tds.

 

If if if he wins two, he’s still not making it into the HOF.

 

Oh soul please.

 

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than He that is in the world.

1 John 4:4.

Amen.

God Bless.

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Politics have always been involved when it comes to the HOF.

Yep - take Lynn Swann for example. Why the HELL is he in the HOF? Answer: He was part of of some great teams and got in just because of that. I find that too many players make the HOF. But whatever.

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Yep - take Lynn Swann for example. Why the HELL is he in the HOF? Answer: He was part of of some great teams and got in just because of that. I find that too many players make the HOF. But whatever.

Great post, because Swann is the poster child for players that aren’t deserving of the honor of making the HOF.

 

Yes he did come up big in big games, but his over all numbers are indeed less then par.

 

If it wasn’t about who is more popular and with a lot of politics then a guy with numbers like Art Monk would have been in.

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It's not all that simple. Eli has played his career in an era where 4000 passing yards in a season doesn't crack the top 10 in most years now. His stats are largely a product of his longevity.

 

Not counting 2004 when he threw for about 1100 yards in 9 games played, he's finished in the top 5 in passing yards 3 times and outside the top 10 in 7 of his 14 full seasons. That's just not HOF level play in my book. Granted, the NFL hall of fame is really the Hall of good, but if Eli gets in, it becomes the Hall of above average.

 

It gets pretty ugly if you look at something like passer rating also.

 

2005 - 23rd

2006 - 18th

2007 - 25th

2008 - 15th

2009 - 11th

2010 - 17th

2011 - 7th

2012 - 14th

2013 - 35th

2014 - 15th

2015 - 13th

2016 - 22nd

2017 - 25th

2018 - 21st

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Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Eli Manning. That is the entire list of NFL Players who have won multiple Super Bowl MVP's. Makes all the irrelevant stats like passer rating meaningless. He's getting in, sorry to break the bad news...

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WHEN Eli gets in he probably will thank a lot of his teammates that helped him get there.

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It gets pretty ugly if you look at something like passer rating also.

 

2005 - 23rd

2006 - 18th

2007 - 25th

2008 - 15th

2009 - 11th

2010 - 17th

2011 - 7th

2012 - 14th

2013 - 35th

2014 - 15th

2015 - 13th

2016 - 22nd

2017 - 25th

2018 - 21st

Once in the top 10 for overall complete QB performance in a single season against his peers in 15 years of play. It goes to show, getting into the HOF isn't about being good on the field, it's something else completely. Go Joe Namath.

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Yup beating Brady and Belicheck twice for the title doesn't show as being good on the field. Child Please...

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Yup beating Brady and Belicheck twice for the title doesn't show as being good on the field. Child Please...

 

Definitely all Eli. It isn't like the Giants defense held the '07 Pats offense to 22 points below their season average, or the '11 Patriots to 15 points below theirs. Eli has carried his franchise to an incredible 124-118 record in his career, or roughly the same winning percentage as Tyrod Taylor and Matt Schaub (though not quite as elite as Mark Sanchez).

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All those QBs you named are not top ten all time in yards and touchdowns or won even one super bowl let alone two, not to mention 2 super bowl mvps. Your comparison was just plain lazy... like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Focus because they are both cars.

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All those QBs you named are not top ten all time in yards and touchdowns or won even one super bowl let alone two, not to mention 2 super bowl mvps. Your comparison was just plain lazy... like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Focus because they are both cars.

 

Bragging about top 10 in yards and such is just as lazy, as others have already pointed out. It is simply a product of playing in a drastically different league than just about every great QB in the past and hanging around forever. If his passing yards were so impressive (if that is even a decent barometer of greatness in the first place) he would be finishing top 5 in a season frequently. Pointing out those other QBs was nothing more than a testament to how Eli has led his team to general mediocrity for most of his career.

 

Another way to put it; how many times has Eli finished as one of the five, or even ten best quarterbacks in the league in a season?

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