THIS is why cops are hyper vigilant and why non compliance is sometimes met with force

[Fireballer 2,369]

... of course, there are also multiple techniques the cops are supposed to employ 2 first take themselves out of harm's Way and second extend that window of time between fine and mortality.

 

 

Not saying cops don't sometimes have tough situations thrust upon them. But the first question you have to ask after the fact when a cop says he feared for his life? Why?

 

There are specific locations cops are taught to stand in a traffic stop, specific distances between even an unarmed allegedly perp and himself. Specific conditions for when 1 should wait and call for backup, Etc.

 

And that, in my opinion, is where the courts continually fuk up.

 

If I run into a gang of a dozen hostile looking gentleman who immediately encircle me and I start blasting away because I feared for my safety?

 

I'm sure you did sporto. But why did you run into the middle of the gang? You saw the number of potential hostiles. You weren't raiding a spelling bee. You've been trained to retreat back to safety and call for backup. Unless somebody's life is in imminent danger.

 

it's a hypothetical, and I'm not going to spend the rest of the afternoon debating a hypothetical. The larger point is, it's not enough to say I feared for my life! Or even I reasonably feared for my life! Part of the decision-making process after the fact is, did you put yourself in that situation unnecessarily? And if so, to me, that's at least involuntary manslaughter.

(Depending upon circumstances).

 

Reasonable man test; if my neighbor's having a party and I run into his living room and he pulls a weapon and has six friends and I shoot him and his buddies? I'm fairly certain I'm not getting off.

 

How many potential hostiles were in the video? What was cop there for?

 

In this case, given the very limited amount of footage we see, the cop clearly had no choice. But how much is him putting himself in a position that was untenable?

 

Those are the kind of things that OIS investigations should be asking. But in today's climate, too often it's a cya for the department rather than a search for truth and better training techniques.

You're lost on this one, bro.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

The problem with these issues are that 99.9% incidents with cops go smoothly and the 0.1% gets blown out of proportion to the extent that police, government, and justice systems are racist.

 

Instead of just saying that this guy or those guys or this girl or that girl is this or that, the assumption is that there is a massive epidemic that needs global overhaul.

[nobody 2,032]

The fat dude still had his gun even though he took three shots to the torso. Officer should've shot the 2nd guy then returned and put 5 or 6 more in the fat guy.

[LOD01 185]

I always love when a cop can kill a loser. We all benefit. He did kill this loser I hope.

[wiffleball 4,631]

You're lost on this one, bro

the fact that you think so with such conviction is a rock-solid indicator of the pervasiveness of the problem.

 

 

Take NY for example. Woman in her 70's. Multiple previous calls for disturbance. Mental illness. Every other call handled correctly by cops. 6 cops respond. 5 in the living room/kitchen. Woman in bedroom with a broom handle. cop (repeatedly) shoots her from doorway. After the fact claiming he "F_____ F_____H___L_____. (yes, I'm sure everyone can fill in those blanks).

 

 

Now, he could have stepped back into the living room where it'd be six multiple-armaments officers vs. one nekkid old lady.

 

Did he? No.

 

Would most people? Yes.

 

Did all the other cops who previously responded F up? No. They called for psych consult.And waited her out. Did this cop? No. Were there any other civilians in the apartment at risk? No. Was she a flight risk? Had she committed a property or personal crime? No. Had she threatened anybody else? No. Simple Noise disturbance.

 

But, but but - IF she had ninja powers and If she whittled that broom handle down and IF she managed to get past the six tasers, nightsticks, pepper sprays and 15 round semis? Well, she COULD have stabbed him in the neck.

 

So, he 'feared for his life'.

 

True Story.

[Fireballer 2,369]

the fact that you think so with such conviction is a rock-solid indicator of the pervasiveness of the problem.

 

My thoughts arent based on what I feel, my thoughts are based on experience, training, policies, and best practices. Your scenerios have gone from a man concealing a gun, to infiltrating a gang of hostiles, to an elderly mental subject. All three are very different scenarios when it comes to using force.

 

There is no "reasonable man" test, as you alluded to. Its a "reasonable officer armed with your identical info" test. Which means a trained officer that has a sworn duty to uphold the law, not a layperson who can always walk away. If police policies bother you that much, lobby to change them. Theyre based on state agency requirements. But if an officer is out of policy, they should certainly face reprucussions.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

the fact that you think so with such conviction is a rock-solid indicator of the pervasiveness of the problem.

 

 

Take NY for example. Woman in her 70's. Multiple previous calls for disturbance. Mental illness. Every other call handled correctly by cops. 6 cops respond. 5 in the living room/kitchen. Woman in bedroom with a broom handle. cop (repeatedly) shoots her from doorway. After the fact claiming he "F_____ F_____H___L_____. (yes, I'm sure everyone can fill in those blanks).

 

 

Now, he could have stepped back into the living room where it'd be six multiple-armaments officers vs. one nekkid old lady.

 

Did he? No.

 

Would most people? Yes.

 

Did all the other cops who previously responded F up? No. They called for psych consult.And waited her out. Did this cop? No. Were there any other civilians in the apartment at risk? No. Was she a flight risk? Had she committed a property or personal crime? No. Had she threatened anybody else? No. Simple Noise disturbance.

 

But, but but - IF she had ninja powers and If she whittled that broom handle down and IF she managed to get past the six tasers, nightsticks, pepper sprays and 15 round semis? Well, she COULD have stabbed him in the neck.

 

So, he 'feared for his life'.

 

True Story.

It was a baseball bat and she swung it at him. Can't let you just make things up. And wtf is a broom handle? That's a broomstick without the broom I assume? I like how you say handle for added affect. Even though it was a baseball bat. And don't forget the scissors she had before that. And also let's not forget he was aquitted in the Bronx NY. Not known for their impartial judgements towards the police.

[tanatastic 2,061]

I always side with the police in a guns drawn situation. Don’t put him in a position to think he may need it and he will never draw. If he draws his gun, it was in his best interest.

[drobeski 3,061]

My thoughts arent based on what I feel, my thoughts are based on experience, training, policies, and best practices. Your scenerios have gone from a man concealing a gun, to infiltrating a gang of hostiles, to an elderly mental subject. All three are very different scenarios when it comes to using force.

 

There is no "reasonable man" test, as you alluded to. Its a "reasonable officer armed with your identical info" test. Which means a trained officer that has a sworn duty to uphold the law, not a layperson who can always walk away. If police policies bother you that much, lobby to change them. Theyre based on state agency requirements. But if an officer is out of policy, they should certainly face reprucussions.

crushed killed and destroyed

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Everyone who has major complaints about police officers should be forced to go through the academy and work 1 month "on the road". If not, S.T.F.U.

[MDC 5,877]

I dont think cops get second guessed any more or less than they deserve. Most of the time they get very wide latitude in guns drawn situations because the public understands its a dangerous and in some ways impossible job. Sometimes people complain in cases where cops deserve a break, about as many times people make excuses for very suspect police behavior.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

If the police are a big problem in your life the police aren't the big problem.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

I dont think cops get second guessed any more or less than they deserve. Most of the time they get very wide latitude in guns drawn situations because the public understands its a dangerous and in some ways impossible job. Sometimes people complain in cases where cops deserve a break, about as many times people make excuses for very suspect police behavior.

 

 

There are cops who screw up and certainly should be held accountable for that, normal/sane people agree with that. The problem is that SJW's, BLM, and MSM, take those handful of incidents and use them to make accusations on a global scale.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

Kamala Harris is out there perpetuating the myth that police officers shoot balcks because they are black. Everyone knows this isn't true, but it gets dummies riled up. So what if a few cities get burned and looted? And the public trusts the police less? There's votes to be harvested pushing this lie.

[MDC 5,877]

 

There are cops who screw up and certainly should be held accountable for that, normal/sane people agree with that. The problem is that SJW's, BLM, and MSM, take those handful of incidents and use them to make accusations on a global scale.

Thats true. On the other hand some people will justify any shooting no matter how egregious and unnecessary. Most people are pretty fair when it comes to police and use of force.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Thats true. On the other hand some people will justify any shooting no matter how egregious and unnecessary. Most people are pretty fair when it comes to police and use of force.

 

I don't disagree with that, but the over justification is a byproduct of the accusations, not the other way around.

[MDC 5,877]

 

I don't disagree with that, but the over justification is a byproduct of the accusations, not the other way around.

Not sure whether the chicken or egg comes first. Here at FFT I see a lot of whining about people wrongfully complaining about police shootings and a lot of defending questionable shootings, usually with racial overtones. Two sides of the same coin.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Not sure whether the chicken or egg comes first. Here at FFT I see a lot of whining about people wrongfully complaining about police shootings and a lot of defending questionable shootings, usually with racial overtones. Two sides of the same coin.

 

Oh I don't doubt that discount both sides being guilty. But, I'm pretty confident the defense of police shootings would be significantly smaller if the MSM didn't constantly claim that every shooting was racial bias. The MSM is all about racial identity. All whites (conservatives), are bad, and all minorities (liberals), are good. When you constantly have 1 side making global accusations, you're clearly going to have kick back.

[Fireballer 2,369]

Here at FFT I see a lot of whining about people wrongfully complaining about police shootings and a lot of defending questionable shootings,

How do you personally judge if a shooting is questionable? And, how are those questionable shootings defended here?

[nobody 2,032]

If the police are a big problem in your life the police aren't the big problem.

True

[MDC 5,877]

How do you personally judge if a shooting is questionable? And, how are those questionable shootings defended here?

Its case by case / circumstantial. When I do feel that a police shooting is questionable its usually because the cop created a situation where lethal force was going to be the probably outcome. The two shootings in Ohio from a year back come to mind. Hes not a cop but Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin was all on him.

 

Here the same posters justify every shooting and start attacking the deceased usually by calling him a welfare thug punk etc.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

Its case by case / circumstantial. When I do feel that a police shooting is questionable its usually because the cop created a situation where lethal force was going to be the probably outcome. The two shootings in Ohio from a year back come to mind. Hes not a cop but Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin was all on him.

Here the same posters justify every shooting and start attacking the deceased usually by calling him a welfare thug punk etc.

Those 2 shootings.....of all the shootings you pick on 2 of them. You are a fraud.

[MDC 5,877]

Those 2 shootings.....of all the shootings you pick on 2 of them. You are a fraud.

Because ... those are the two I strongly disagreed with and most of the time I dont think police shootings are egregious?

 

The guy who got shot in a hotel corridor in I believe Nevada - that cop was insane and that was nuts. I also recall a dude who got pulled over for a moving violation and ran. I guess he had a bench warrant and the cop shot him in the back unnecessarily IMO. Think this was in Missouri or Mississippi?

 

So there a few more for you.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

Arizona and South Carolina. And there was plenty of criticism about them. Libtards make things up.

[sderk 1,040]

Because ... those are the two I strongly disagreed with and most of the time I dont think police shootings are egregious?

 

The guy who got shot in a hotel corridor in I believe Nevada - that cop was insane and that was nuts. I also recall a dude who got pulled over for a moving violation and ran. I guess he had a bench warrant and the cop shot him in the back unnecessarily IMO. Think this was in Missouri or Mississippi?

 

So there a few more for you.

So there were like 3500 people shot in Chicago in 2017 and you want to focus on "those two" cops that you strongly disagree with in different parts of the country?

 

Man, what a great way to prioritize...

[Fireballer 2,369]

So there were like 3500 people shot in Chicago in 2017 and you want to focus on "those two" cops that you strongly disagree with in different parts of the country?

 

Man, what a great way to prioritize...

I his defense, I asked him directly about police shootings, not Chicago. Thats why he only mentioned cop shootings.

[MDC 5,877]

I his defense, I asked him directly about police shootings, not Chicago. Thats why he only mentioned cop shootings.

I also dont think Ive posted a thread about a police shooting but I will comment on it if its here. And I know in numerous threads about mass shootings Ive talked about how people tend to ignore the 30+ routine shootings per day in the US because its not dramatic and nobody seems to care.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

I also dont think Ive posted a thread about a police shooting but I will comment on it if its here. And I know in numerous threads about mass shootings Ive talked about how people tend to ignore the 30+ routine shootings per day in the US because its not dramatic and nobody seems to care.

Prove me wrong. I don’t believe you.

[MDC 5,877]

Prove me wrong. I dont believe you.

I dont give a fock.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

I dont give a fock.

So talking out your ass is ok with you? Glad you stand behind your word. Wow.

[MDC 5,877]

So talking out your ass is ok with you? Glad you stand behind your word. Wow.

Prove me wrong focktard. You made the claim back it up.

[seafoam1 1,878]

Prove me wrong focktard.

Wow.

[RLLD 3,455]

You don't HAVE to like cops to respect the work they do or the rationale for their existence. I have had negative experiences with cops and positive ones. I accept their are better and worse versions of cops, and anyone can have a bad day. I think they should be held accountable for bad decisions.I think the people who pretend they are some group out to get them are focking stupid.