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Least important position other than K/P?

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Another thread made me think of this. If you were an NFL owner, and had a highly paid (top 5) Quarterback, which position(s) would you sort of devalue, or spend less money on? I know this is heavily dependent upon the scheme you would be running, but it will definitely make you think.

 

 

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RB is becoming more and more devalued. Get a good offensive line and a great QB, and you can stick a third or fourth rounder back there no problem.

 

Linebackers that come out on passing downs are also worth less.

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RBs hands down.

 

And this isnt popular but DL. Not edge rushers but down linemen. Seems like each year the strongest position in the draft is DL. DL is absolutely loaded this year again, more than ever. Off the top of my head 10 or more linemen may go off the board in the 1st round alone. Just seems like there is quality DL each year as opposed to CB or offensive linemen.

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RBs hands down.

 

And this isnt popular but DL. Not edge rushers but down linemen. Seems like each year the strongest position in the draft is DL. DL is absolutely loaded this year again, more than ever. Off the top of my head 10 or more linemen may go off the board in the 1st round alone. Just seems like there is quality DL each year as opposed to CB or offensive linemen.

Does the fact so many are projected in the top 10 say they're are a lot of good ones, or that it's really important to find a good one? The sack leader was an interior lineman, the position is changing. Maybe the run stuffers are less important, but a pass rush up the middle is how you disrupt a lot of the passing schemes. If Donald can get pressure on Brady, it may be the difference in the game. It's known that the best way to beat Brady is to get pressure up the middle while only bringing four.

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Does the fact so many are projected in the top 10 say they're are a lot of good ones, or that it's really important to find a good one? The sack leader was an interior lineman, the position is changing. Maybe the run stuffers are less important, but a pass rush up the middle is how you disrupt a lot of the passing schemes. If Donald can get pressure on Brady, it may be the difference in the game. It's a known fact that best way to beat Brady is to get pressure up the middle while only bringing four.

They are important I am just saying there are more quality DL than other positions. It seems like it has been that way for a few years now.

 

No this year isnt because DL is important or every draft would go like this one is going to go. The DL prospects in this draft are truly top notch. Perhaps one of the deepest/best DL classes of all time.

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I just went through and counted 10 DL that will probably go in the 1st. Thay is counting Ferrell at DE as I believe he is a 4-3 end rather than OLB.

 

But that is 10 without any real tweeners besides MAYBE Ferrell. There are 5ish 3-4 OLB/edge that will probably go in the 1st as well.

 

That is just insane.

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Tight End, it's a hybrid position.

Not quite a WR, not quite an OL

Which I think makes it more important. Not that you have to have a Kelce. But a guy who knows what they are doing. They say TE is the hardest position/hardest to pick up in the NFL besides QB.

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In today’s game I think it’s a full back.

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I don't think QBs are worth the money. You really need to have a top QB on a below market contract or a middling QB on an affordable contract. A top offensive coach is proving to be more important than a top QB.

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I don't think QBs are worth the money. You really need to have a top QB on a below market contract or a middling QB on an affordable contract. A top offensive coach is proving to be more important than a top QB.

I can sort of buy this. But the last 4 QBs in it this year had the MVP 2 1st ballot 40 year old HOFers, and Goff the #1 pick.

 

It is nice to have a QB on the cheap. But it isnt like the Rams and Chiefs have steller defenses they paid for.

 

But I do think in todays game it is getting much easier to play QB so I think your right in a way.

 

Problem is what do you do. Okay Russell Wilson....you want a new contract, nah. We will take a random shot in drafting one. Not only is that a tough sell to fans and teammates but it is tough for a GM to even try that. So it really isnt an option.

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I can sort of buy this. But the last 4 QBs in it this year had the MVP 2 1st ballot 40 year old HOFers, and Goff the #1 pick.

 

It is nice to have a QB on the cheap. But it isnt like the Rams and Chiefs have steller defenses they paid for.

 

But I do think in todays game it is getting much easier to play QB so I think your right in a way.

 

Problem is what do you do. Okay Russell Wilson....you want a new contract, nah. We will take a random shot in drafting one. Not only is that a tough sell to fans and teammates but it is tough for a GM to even try that. So it really isnt an option.

We'll be in that exact position next year.

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I can sort of buy this. But the last 4 QBs in it this year had the MVP 2 1st ballot 40 year old HOFers, and Goff the #1 pick.

 

It is nice to have a QB on the cheap. But it isnt like the Rams and Chiefs have steller defenses they paid for.

 

But I do think in todays game it is getting much easier to play QB so I think your right in a way.

 

Problem is what do you do. Okay Russell Wilson....you want a new contract, nah. We will take a random shot in drafting one. Not only is that a tough sell to fans and teammates but it is tough for a GM to even try that. So it really isnt an option.

Brees and Brady are both on the below market contracts I referred to. Both being top 3 QBs regardless of coaching, but giving home town discounts. Goff and Mahomes are on rookie deals. Also, Goff was atrocious before Mcvay and I'm still not sold on him being a true franchise QB without a great OC/coach. The points you made about the last 4 QBs playing actually gives more credence to my point.

 

Between Donald, Suh, Brockers, Talib and Peters, the Rams have a lot of their cap tied to their defense. Which they can do, since they have a QB on a rookie deal. If the Chiefs had spent more on defense, particularly defensive tackles, they probably would playing this weekend.

 

On your last point about what to do when a QB wants a new deal. You draw the line at certain dollar amount. Right now, if a QB is making more than $25 mill per year, the teams ability to assemble a talented team around him starts decreasing rapidly. If you have a true franchise QB, you set the line at a certain amount. If he wants more than that, trade him for a kings ransom and let his contract impede a different team. The ability to find bargain players in the draft is vastly underrated right now, but teams that have high dollar QBs need to find a lot more of it. Spend your time and money finding and keeping a great offensive minded coach, and you'll always have solid QB play.

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How many great offensive minded coaches are there out there? I'm guessing less than the number of QBs making more than $25 million per year. Plus the cap goes up about 10 million a year.

 

But you bring up some good points, nice post.

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Which I think makes it more important. Not that you have to have a Kelce. But a guy who knows what they are doing. They say TE is the hardest position/hardest to pick up in the NFL besides QB.

How often have you ever heard of a team that wins because of a Tight End though?

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How many great offensive minded coaches are there out there? I'm guessing less than the number of QBs making more than $25 million per year. Plus the cap goes up about 10 million a year.

 

But you bring up some good points, nice post.

Certainly there's more than one way to construct a Superbowl team. I just think the NFL is changing. The formula has been do whatever it takes to find a top 10 QB and then do whatever it takes to keep him. Teams are realizing that there's a different way to get top end QB play, and that's through finding a top offensive coach. It doesn't eat up precious cap and you don't spend years searching and spending tons of draft capital on a shot in the dark QB. Because of this I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams trade Goff before his big pay day. They traded draft picks and handed out contracts to non QB players like they were candy this off season. The best way to get the picks back and stay under the cap is to trade Goff and have a journeyman QB come in.

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The formula to win a super bowl is to get a franchise QB and then an elite defense. All offensive players outside of QB are the least essential. You can do perfectly fine on offense these days by filling the WR, TE, and RB positions and most of the OL with mid round picks. High picks need to be used on QB and defense.

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Certainly there's more than one way to construct a Superbowl team. I just think the NFL is changing. The formula has been do whatever it takes to find a top 10 QB and then do whatever it takes to keep him. Teams are realizing that there's a different way to get top end QB play, and that's through finding a top offensive coach. It doesn't eat up precious cap and you don't spend years searching and spending tons of draft capital on a shot in the dark QB. Because of this I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams trade Goff before his big pay day. They traded draft picks and handed out contracts to non QB players like they were candy this off season. The best way to get the picks back and stay under the cap is to trade Goff and have a journeyman QB come in.

 

A franchise QB elevates the game of the entire offense. Its a terrible decision to actively seek a journeyman QB. That said, Goff is probably not a franchise QB.

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A franchise QB elevates the game of the entire offense. Its a terrible decision to actively seek a journeyman QB. That said, Goff is probably not a franchise QB.

A coach can elevate a QB in the same way. If Goff isn't a franchise QB, which I agree with, how did he lead a top 3 offense? Foles with the wrong coach is trash but with the right one is a Superbowl mvp. It's not about having an elite QB but elite QB play. Which can be achieved with a coach not just a QB.

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The formula to win a super bowl is to get a franchise QB and then an elite defense. All offensive players outside of QB are the least essential. You can do perfectly fine on offense these days by filling the WR, TE, and RB positions and most of the OL with mid round picks. High picks need to be used on QB and defense.

The coach is the Superbowl formula.

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The formula to win a super bowl is to get a franchise QB and then an elite defense. All offensive players outside of QB are the least essential. You can do perfectly fine on offense these days by filling the WR, TE, and RB positions and most of the OL with mid round picks. High picks need to be used on QB and defense.

I partially disagree on this one. Aside from the QB of course, o-line is the most important piece to a team. Put Brady or Rodgers or Brees on the Jets, Cardinals, or Raiders, and they would have made those teams better, but none of them would have taken those teams to the playoffs this past year. In fact, they would all probably be in full body casts halfway through the season.

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The formula to win a super bowl is to get a franchise QB and then an elite defense. All offensive players outside of QB are the least essential. You can do perfectly fine on offense these days by filling the WR, TE, and RB positions and most of the OL with mid round picks. High picks need to be used on QB and defense.

I wouldn’t consider Foles a franchise Qb.

 

And yet he beat the goat.

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Wasn't the Goat himself a 6th round pick? Russel Wilson was a mid round pick. There is no set formula to win superbowls, but Belicheck has figured out what it takes better than anyone else.

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I wouldn’t consider Foles a franchise Qb.

 

And yet he beat the goat.

 

The path to winning a super bowl is having a franchise QB and an elite defense. However, sometimes there are years where no NFL team has both. In such cases, the Super Bowl champion is random. 2017 was a year where no NFL team had both a franchise QB and an elite defense. My prediction that year was a random champion.

 

2018 was a strange one. The Chargers had a franchise QB and an elite defense. They had the best record in the AFC but were a wild card and ran into NFL royalty in the second road game. The Saints had a franchise QB and an elite defense too but lost Sheldon Rankins in the divisional round which dramatically downgraded their defense and they lost in OT in the NFC title game. My pick all year was a saints Super Bowl title but that injury blew it up.

 

But yeah, Foles beat a mediocre defense.

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The coach is the Superbowl formula.

So if Brady retires Belichick and the Patriots continue to have the same success they've had with Brady on the team?

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The coach is the Superbowl formula.

The greatest coach of all time has been the Superbowl formula. Certainly Brady, the greatest QB of all time qualifies as elite, and he figures into the Superbowl formula.

 

Elite QBs win multiple Superbowls. That is the formula.

 

When Bill retires the equation will change.

 

I'll ask you again, how many great offensive minded coaches are there out there?

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So if Brady retires Belichick and the Patriots continue to have the same success they've had with Brady on the team?

That's the great debate isn't it? Their sustained success is a result of consistently having the combination of elite game planning and elite execution.

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Elite QBs sometimes don’t even win one super bowl.

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Mediocre def or not, I still don’t think Foles is a franchise qb.

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When Brady retires their is no way I see the Pats having the same results right away.

 

For that matter I doubt the Hoody would have enough time to rebuild with another Qb.

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When Brady retires their is no way I see the Pats having the same results right away.

 

For that matter I doubt the Hoody would have enough time to rebuild with another Qb.

He probably doesn't hit the 50% Superbowl mark, but I think the hoody has proven he can win a lot of games with lesser QBs.

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I think he has proven that he can win games without Brady.

 

But not a playoff game nor a Super Bowl.

 

So I think he will have some success, but I think it will take a while to reach what he has with Brady.

 

No way can anyone take away how Brady as mastered the hoody’s system, and it would take a while for another to do so.

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On 2/2/2019 at 10:45 PM, weepaws said:

Elite QBs sometimes don’t even win one super bowl.

Dan Marino never won it, but his defenses were usually pretty bad.  Not only that, but he had to to play in a division where the Bills had a franchise QB and a pretty good defense (including Bruce Smith).

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On 2/3/2019 at 2:06 PM, weepaws said:

I think he has proven that he can win games without Brady.

But not a playoff game nor a Super Bowl.

Actually, Belichick won a playoff game as head coach of the Browns in 1994 with Vinny Testaverde as his QB over a Patriots team led by Bill Parcells and Drew Bledsoe.

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