Amazon not coming to NY

[Bert 1,087]

1 hour ago, vuduchile said:

Mail order catalogs were the front runners for sure.  I've never seen any studies about lost sales tax from mail order catalogs though.  One difference between Amazon and the Sears Catalog or any other catalogs connected to brick and mortar stores is that Sears had physical stores all over the US.  This compelled them to collect sales tax on any orders going to a state where they had a store. 

Not necessarily.  For awhile brick and mortar stores would put their catalog/on-line operations in a separate legal entity.  If I remember correctly it was a Barnes and Noble case that "pierced the corporate vale" to severely restrict this practice. 

Amazon does some smarmy stuff but this isn't one of them.  Taking advantage of tax laws is what everyone does.  If people don't like it change the laws. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

23 minutes ago, Bert said:

 

It gave them an "unfair" trading advantage because people broke the law. 

 

You're kidding yourself if you believe Amazon wasn't counting on people avoiding sales tax as a part of their business strategy.  

 

Here's an interesting take on it:

 

As its business expanded, Amazon’s CEO Jeff Bezos treated this anomaly as an inherited right and deployed the classic techniques of rent-seeking to protect his advantage. He spent millions of dollars per year on lobbyists, deployed an army of lawyers, and cultivated political allies with large campaign contributions. Diffuse and vulnerable, the mom-and-pop shops disrupted by Amazon lacked the capacity to make their case effectively. Nor was there any customer constituency for tax collection, even though the same consumers paid indirectly through diminished public services.

At the state level, Amazon became a litigious bully, an instance of the modern corporation powerful enough to dictate terms to impoverished sovereigns. When challenged over the collection of taxes, it warned that it could take thousands of jobs elsewhere. As California teetered near bankruptcy a few years ago, Amazon cut ties with local affiliates and threatened to fund a public referendum to overturn the legislature’s decision to make it pay tax. Its strategy devolved into simply delaying the inevitable for as long as possible. When a state looked likely to win in court, Amazon would negotiate and agree to collect taxes, provided that it didn’t have to start for a few more years.

Essentially, Amazon has become so dominant that it no longer cares to fight, leaving its worn-out briefs to eBay and Overstock.com. It has played out the clock longer than it dared hope and would now like to be able to build warehouses everywhere without doing state-by-state battle over its “physical presence.” In other words, this is not a case of Congress finally choosing to act. It’s a case of the owners finally giving it permission to do so.

[wiffleball 4,631]

Bert, was thinking it was Borders books, but whatever, you're right.

[Bert 1,087]

1 minute ago, wiffleball said:

Bert, was thinking it was Borders books, but whatever, you're right.

That's right.  It's hell getting old. 

[Bert 1,087]

10 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

You're kidding yourself if you believe Amazon wasn't counting on people avoiding sales tax as a part of their business strategy.  

It was not a huge part of their strategy because all online and mail order companies had the same advantage.

[vuduchile 1,940]

9 minutes ago, Bert said:

It was not a huge part of their strategy because all online and mail order companies had the same advantage.

C'mon man.

$20 billion in customer discounts.  MORE THAN DOUBLE THEIR LIFETIME PROFITS!

Spent millions on teams of lawyers, and lobbyists to keep the status quo.  Fought tooth and nail to delay the inevitable for as long as they could.

But no.  It wasn't part of their strategy.  

Do you work for Amazon or something? 

 

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

So horse teeth AOC is celebrating and wondering how to spend the $3,000,000,000 New York 'saved' in tax breaks they were giving Amazon.

Only problem is the 3 billion was just a fraction of the 27 billion Amazon was going to pay New York. A net loss of 24 billion for NY but dipsh!t AOC thinks they saved 3 billion. And she has a business degree. 

[Drizzay 644]

Pretty sad for a progressive when the NYT Editorial section says you focked up. 

[DonS 3,063]

20 minutes ago, Filthy Fernadez said:

So horse teeth AOC is celebrating and wondering how to spend the $3,000,000,000 New York 'saved' in tax breaks they were giving Amazon.

Only problem is the 3 billion was just a fraction of the 27 billion Amazon was going to pay New York. A net loss of 24 billion for NY but dipsh!t AOC thinks they saved 3 billion. And she has a business degree. 

You're focusing on the wrong thing. This move will actually generate 100 billion in magical unicorn credits. It's all part of the GND.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,491]

8 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Who's acting like that? Nobody said Amazon was the first behemoth to seek and receive incentives.  They just happen to be the latest, and highest profile example.  I believe it's a bad system 

As tbbom said, let states create an economic environment that's fair and equitable for all, then I'd be fine with it.  Some sorta tax rebate for every sf of developed commercial space and each new job created.  

Plus, not all corporations keep their promises.  

 

Foxconn: $4.5 billion for 13,000 jobs, the rough equivalent of Wisconsin paying 30% of Foxconn's payroll for 15 years,

• Last week, the company said it won't build the plant. Then, after a reported conversation between the company and President Trump, it said it actually will. No one knows what will happen next.
• In a new investigation, Bloomberg reports that Foxconn's promises were never realistic. In the past, the company has failed to deliver on such pledges in Brazil, India and Pennsylvania, per Bloomberg.

Comerica took a $3.5 million grant from the city in 2007 on the condition of adding 200 high-paying jobs, Comerica went back to Dallas in 2012 with an amended offer.

• The company wanted to count the relocation of 16 executives — the CEO among them — as part of the total job number, in addition to positions created at two subsidiaries.
• Comerica also included substantial executive salaries when calculating the average compensation of the added jobs.

Evergreen Solar received a $58 million grant commitment to build a plant in Massachusetts, but eventually scrapped construction plans. The state recovered just $3 million of $21 million Evergreen had already received

Since the 1990s, the typical size of a corporate tax break has tripled, and although these incentives are open to all businesses, 70% of the deals and 90% of the dollars go to big companies.

Don't even get me started on the automakers:

https://www.autonews.com/article/20181203/OEM01/181209951/gm-may-keep-cashing-in-michigan-tax-credits-after-cuts-closures

At the same time, the Snyder administration signed a nondisclosure agreement with GM to shield the value of the automaker's tax credits from public disclosure -- a deal some lawmakers with GM plants in their districts want to re-examine. 

I don't know why you guys keep misrepresenting the FoxConn deal here in WI.  All of those tax credits are based on reaching job goals and capital investment spending.  They don't reach the goal, they don't get the credit.  WI isn't giving them 4 billion dollars for free.

I mean, I understand why you keep running with it for a sound bite hoping to fool some rubes, but it's not gonna' fool those who actually are paying attention and not reading a headline at Vox, MSNBC or Slate.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

12 hours ago, DonS said:

Honest question for you... Do you use Amazon at all?

Everyone is 100% entitled to their opinions, so if you feel so strongly that Amazon is a shady company then I assume you don't use their services. It's all part of capitalism.  You're always free to take your business to Company Y if Company X rubs you the wrong way. 

Ah the old free market.

It's a myth in modern America. Where do I go now? Wal Mart? Target?

There's nothing left but sh!tty massive corporations.

[MDC 5,875]

9 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Ah the old free market.

It's a myth in modern America. Where do I go now? Wal Mart? Target?

There's nothing left but sh!tty massive corporations.

I order all my books at one of the handful of independent bookstores in Philly. I costs slightly more and I end up waiting another day or two but it isn’t time sensitive and I’d rather support a local business.

When it comes to gifts and Christmas stuff though there is no other reasonable option.

[Strike 3,941]

 

[jerryskids 5,165]

16 minutes ago, Strike said:

 

Preach on sister.  I like that woman.  She should go biotch-slap AOC.  I'd pay money to see that. 

[DonS 3,063]

5 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Preach on sister.  I like that woman.  She should go biotch-slap AOC.  I'd pay money to see that. 

"We used to protest wars, but now we protest jobs?".

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

AOC was flexing. Good job, you're a very,  very important person. 

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

Everything AOC touches turns to mush

[TimmySmith 2,782]

People unwilling to work. ,

Jobs ,

What has happened to the left?

[Cdub100 3,366]

2 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

People unwilling to work. ,

Jobs ,

What has happened to the left?

How can anyone vote for Democrats any more? Even if I had one who was everything I wanted in a politician I cannot conceive of giving ng Democrats any type of power. 

[Super Cubs 132]

4 hours ago, avoiding injuries said:

Everything AOC touches turns to mush

This explains a lot. Her love life must really suck.

[Bert 1,087]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 2:05 PM, vuduchile said:

C'mon man.

$20 billion in customer discounts.  MORE THAN DOUBLE THEIR LIFETIME PROFITS!

Spent millions on teams of lawyers, and lobbyists to keep the status quo.  Fought tooth and nail to delay the inevitable for as long as they could.

But no.  It wasn't part of their strategy.  

Do you work for Amazon or something? 

 

C'mon man. 

They fought tooth and nail because of the cost and liability of compliance.  You obviously are not familiar with the cost of compliance or the liability a company assumes if they collect sales tax when they are not legally required to do so. 

Why was Amazon so involved in SSTP in 1998/1999 if it was such a HUGE part of there strategy?

As stated before, if this was such a HUGE part of their strategy why did they start collecting sales tax when the law said they didn't have to?

Not that you care but I have known the SUT people at Amazon since 1999.  They use the same SUT software as my company.  The complexity of SUT compliance didn't become easier until 2002-2004 when new software was developed.

There are a lot of reasons to not like Amazon. This sales tax argument is a red herring  Why won't you address all the customers breaking the law and every company on the plant doing the exact same thing?  Sounds like you have a special hate for Amazon.

Why aren't you pissed at all the companies outside the US selling and shipping goods into the US without collecting sales tax?

[wiffleball 4,631]

Frankly, flock New York. Let's see, they brought us Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton

Now we've got to deal with Gloria Fellatio Gomez.

Flock it. Lots of other communities would welcome them with open arms.

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,576]

42 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Frankly, flock New York. Let's see, they brought us Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton

Now we've got to deal with Gloria Fellatio Gomez.

Flock it. Lots of other communities would welcome them with open arms.

 

 

Goober

[wiffleball 4,631]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Goober

Oh yeah, flaccid basturd too. 

Not exactly helping the case

[vuduchile 1,940]

20 hours ago, Bert said:

C'mon man. 

They fought tooth and nail because of the cost and liability of compliance.  You obviously are not familiar with the cost of compliance or the liability a company assumes if they collect sales tax when they are not legally required to do so. 

Why was Amazon so involved in SSTP in 1998/1999 if it was such a HUGE part of there strategy?

As stated before, if this was such a HUGE part of their strategy why did they start collecting sales tax when the law said they didn't have to?

Not that you care but I have known the SUT people at Amazon since 1999.  They use the same SUT software as my company.  The complexity of SUT compliance didn't become easier until 2002-2004 when new software was developed.

There are a lot of reasons to not like Amazon. This sales tax argument is a red herring  Why won't you address all the customers breaking the law and every company on the plant doing the exact same thing?  Sounds like you have a special hate for Amazon.

Why aren't you pissed at all the companies outside the US selling and shipping goods into the US without collecting sales tax?

I'm not a tax expert, but I am a retailer, and have been for most of my professional life. 

It's not just an Amazon thing for me.  It's online vs. bricks and mortar.  For whatever reason, you continue to ignore the very real competitive advantage a company has when they don't have to collect sales tax on their sales.  It may technically be the consumer who is skirting the law, but to pretend Amazon isn't complicit is just silly.

 

[Bert 1,087]

13 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

I'm not a tax expert, but I am a retailer, and have been for most of my professional life. 

It's not just an Amazon thing for me.  It's online vs. bricks and mortar.  For whatever reason, you continue to ignore the very real competitive advantage a company has when they don't have to collect sales tax on their sales.  It may technically be the consumer who is skirting the law, but to pretend Amazon isn't complicit is just silly.

 

Amazon was complicit in following the law.

I think the brick and mortar vs online is a shift in customer preference more than anything. 

Good luck! Retail is a tough gig.  

[Strike 3,941]

23 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

I'm not a tax expert, but I am a retailer, and have been for most of my professional life. 

It's not just an Amazon thing for me.  It's online vs. bricks and mortar.  For whatever reason, you continue to ignore the very real competitive advantage a company has when they don't have to collect sales tax on their sales.  It may technically be the consumer who is skirting the law, but to pretend Amazon isn't complicit is just silly.

 

This is a rhetorical question.  If you weren't legally required to do so, would you collect sales tax, especially knowing that your direct competitors were not?

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

     at New York embracing this moron and then losing $24 billion in revenue as a result.

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

15 minutes ago, Filthy Fernadez said:

     at New York embracing this moron and then losing $24 billion in revenue as a result.

Passing out red pills at the Amazon HQ

[lod001 1,235]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 5:07 PM, Filthy Fernadez said:

So horse teeth AOC is celebrating and wondering how to spend the $3,000,000,000 New York 'saved' in tax breaks they were giving Amazon.

Only problem is the 3 billion was just a fraction of the 27 billion Amazon was going to pay New York. A net loss of 24 billion for NY but dipsh!t AOC thinks they saved 3 billion. And she has a business degree. 

Oh, she's a certified retard. She got her degree sucking c0cks. She is a train wreck and needs to be sent back to wherever she came from.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

 

New York showing some gratitude towards horse teeth. 

[Strike 3,941]

1 minute ago, Filthy Fernadez said:

 

New York showing some gratitude towards horse teeth. 

AOC's father should have pulled out.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

AOC's father should have pulled out.

 

This guy?

[RLLD 3,455]