SaintsInDome2006

It’s about politics. The anti-corruption message resonates.

How a Manosphere Star Accused of Rape and Trafficking Was Freed Barred from leaving Romania, Andrew Tate courted powerful figures on the American right, from Tucker Carlson to Barron Trump. Then an extraordinary order let him go. <<< Days before Donald J. Trump’s return to the White House, Andrew Tate got some good news. Mr. Tate and his brother, Tristan, swaggering influencers in the so-called manosphere, had been under criminal investigation in Romania since 2022, accused of coercing women into pornography. Andrew was also accused of rape and of having sex with and beating a 15-year-old. The brothers, American and British citizens, had been barred from leaving Romania while prosecutors built their case. Now, in a Jan. 14 text message, Mr. Tate indicated that help was on the way. “I had word from The Trump admin that theyre on top of things,” Mr. Tate wrote to someone close to him, in a message reviewed by The New York Times. “Ive been told ill be free soon but Trump needs to see me in Miami,” he added. The next month, an extraordinary order came down from the highest levels of the Romanian government, a Times investigation found. The prosecutors were told to find a compromise with the Tates. Despite their misgivings, they lifted the travel restrictions, a move that Romania’s prime minister thought would appease the Trump administration. “We’re massively back,” a grinning Mr. Tate announced in a video recorded for his followers on Feb. 27, as a private plane whisked the brothers to Florida. Their arrival in the United States opened a rare rift among conservatives and raised suspicions over whether the White House had intervened. The Times found that support from Trump administration officials played a crucial role. Interviews with dozens of people in Romania, the United States and Britain, as well as a review of hundreds of pages of court documents and private messages, offer the fullest account yet of how the Tates rose from a fringe corner of the internet to become a cause célèbre on the right. The brothers’ release from Romania was the culmination of a yearslong effort by Andrew to forge alliances with Mr. Trump’s advisers and family members.>>> <<< As his notoriety grew, Andrew Tate shrewdly courted Tucker Carlson and other media stars of the right, who in turn tapped into the brothers’ loyal following to expand their own reach. Andrew also nurtured relationships with Donald Trump Jr. and his younger brother Barron, who recognized the role that young male voters could play in their father’s return to power. Barron, now 19, admired Andrew, and spoke with him over Zoom last year, according to Justin Waller, a mutual friend who was on the call. During the call, they discussed their shared belief that the Romanian criminal case was an effort to silence the Tates, he said. After Mr. Trump’s re-election, some of the Tates’ supporters ascended into the new administration. One of them, the diplomatic envoy Richard Grenell, twice discussed their case with Romanian officials, The Times found. Within days of the second conversation, the Romanian prosecutors received their marching orders and handed the Tates the freedom to travel — after long arguing that the brothers were a public danger and a flight risk. The prosecutors were outraged, according to people familiar with the matter who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss it.>>> <<< From Tucker to Barron After his arrest, Mr. Tate hired Joseph D. McBride, a lawyer who had defended Trump supporters accused of insurrection at the Capitol. In short order, Mr. McBride pitched his brash new client to the conservative host Tucker Carlson. In some ways, it was an odd pairing. Mr. Carlson was a proud husband who promoted Christian family values. But he had been ousted from Fox News after lawsuits exposed offensive language in his private messages to colleagues. He was building his own show on Twitter. And Mr. Tate, who had been reinstated on the platform by Elon Musk, had millions of followers there. In an interview with The Times, Mr. McBride recalled telling Mr. Carlson that if he flew to Romania for a sit-down with Andrew, “I know we’ll break the internet.” The Tates’ compound in Romania.Daniel Mihailescu/Agence France-Presse via Getty Images He was right. The 2023 interview, recorded at Mr. Tate’s luxury home on the outskirts of Bucharest, has drawn more than 112 million views. They spent much of the two-and-a-half-hour conversation discussing their shared beliefs, including what they saw as a left-wing war on masculinity. Mr. Carlson didn’t press Mr. Tate on his porn operation or his previous comments about exploiting women. Mr. Carlson misrepresented the criminal allegations in Romania, saying that they involved no sex crimes or violence, or any actions that could be considered trafficking. “That’s not actually human trafficking,” Mr. Carlson said of the charges. “I don’t care what you call it, you weren’t buying, even accused of buying and selling anyone.” Asked recently about the interview, Mr. Carlson told The Times, “If I misstated their indictment or got the facts wrong, I sincerely apologize.” He added, “It doesn’t change my view that the Tates, whatever their personal behavior, had a message worth hearing.” Interview with Andrew Tate conducted by Tucker Carlson and posted to Twitter in 2023. The interview helped burnish Mr. Tate’s reputation. Charlie Kirk, the conservative youth organizer and Trump adviser, was among those who tuned in. “Now I see why he’s popular,” Mr. Kirk said on his podcast. While he expressed disgust over Mr. Tate’s pornography business, he agreed that masculinity was under siege. “He is hitting on something that you’re not allowed to say, where there’s a lot of truth to it.” Candace Owens, another popular podcaster, flew to Romania and conducted her own sympathetic interview of Mr. Tate. She told her audience it was a mistake to judge him for his past comments or the ostentatious content he posted. “This is how guys have fun,” she said, “the same way that girls sit around and talk about ‘Real Housewives.’” In other interviews, Mr. Tate drew parallels that he saw between himself and Mr. Trump: both booted from social media, both criminally prosecuted, both victims of political attacks. In September 2023, Mr. Trump shared on Truth Social, his social media platform, a video of Tristan defending him. “Thank you!” Mr. Trump wrote. Mr. McBride, the brothers’ lawyer, pressed their case in meetings with members of Congress, according to an interview he gave to the Republican operative Roger Stone. Mr. McBride said both male and female lawmakers were “outraged” at the brothers’ treatment. Don Jr. showed support, too. “You’ve got people attacking you as far as I’m concerned,” he told Mr. Tate in a June 2024 conversation live-streamed on X, the renamed Twitter platform. “They just want to silence you.” Barron Trump admired Andrew Tate and spoke with him by Zoom last year, according to a mutual friend.Eric Lee/The New York Times His younger brother Barron was also a fan. That spring, as his father was going after young male voters on the campaign trail, the teenager hosted a dinner at Mar-a-Lago for influencers. Among them was Mr. Waller, who has helped run the Tates’ courses and told The Times he is widely seen as the “third brother.” The conversation that night meandered, Mr. Waller said, from “calling each other degenerate names” to discussing potential running mates for Mr. Trump, who also made an appearance and agreed to go on the podcast of another guest, Patrick Bet-David. Mr. Waller has tried to play a “big brother” role for Barron, he said, visiting Mar-a-Lago and talking to him about dating. The president’s youngest son is “not a bad ally to have — let’s be frank,” he said. He and Barron spoke to Andrew over Zoom last year, Mr. Waller said, while the teenager was having a suit fitted by Mr. Waller’s tailor. Although they discussed the Romanian case, Barron did not say anything about helping the Tates, Mr. Waller said. They also talked about supporting Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign on their online platforms. That summer, when a young man tried to assassinate Mr. Trump, Mr. Tate told reporters that he had talked to Barron after the shooting. “I’m very close to the Trump family,” he added. “I look forward to, once I am free, being with Donald Trump in person and reminding him that he’s a bulletproof badass.”>>> <<< Allies Ascend When Andrew texted in January that the Trump administration was “on top of things,” he didn’t name names. But several of his supporters had found roles in the incoming government. Paul Ingrassia, who was initially named White House liaison to the Justice Department, had once been part of the Tates’ legal team. Alina Habba, a counselor to the president who would later serve a brief stint as New Jersey’s top prosecutor, told Andrew on a podcast in January that “I got your back over here.” Richard Grenell, center, and Alina Habba (wearing glasses) at a Senate confirmation hearing in January.Haiyun Jiang for The New York Times And Mr. Grenell, a special presidential envoy, privately discussed the Tates’ case with Romanian officials, The Times found. At Mar-a-Lago last December, he met Victor Ponta, an adviser to Romania’s prime minister. Mr. Ponta had traveled to Mr. Trump’s Florida club to make inroads with the president-elect’s inner circle, he told The Times in an interview in Bucharest. His country was in a defensive crouch for its handling of a presidential election. Its highest court had tossed out the first round of votes, citing evidence that Russia had meddled on behalf of the winner, a far-right candidate. Donald Trump Jr. and Elon Musk, among other American conservatives, accused Romania of undermining democracy. Mr. Ponta sensed that informal diplomacy would be a big part of the incoming Trump administration. And Mr. Grenell, who would soon negotiate the release of several American detainees in Venezuela, was already positioning himself as a forceful operator. When asked by The Times whether he and Mr. Grenell discussed the Tates’ case, Mr. Ponta affirmed that they had. “Maybe he saw himself as releasing all the American hostages around the world,” he said, without elaborating further. Last month, Mr. Ponta backpedaled. In a text exchange with The Times, he said he didn’t recall whether he and Mr. Grenell had talked about the Tates. He then said he was sure they had not. Mr. Grenell also discussed the Tates’ case in mid-February, with Romania’s then foreign minister, Emil Hurezeanu, when they crossed paths at a security conference in Munich, as first reported by The Financial Times. Mr. Grenell disputed the characterization of the encounter, saying in a statement to The Times that it had become exaggerated in media accounts. “I simply ran into him in the hallway,” he said. The foreign minister asked him if he stood by an old tweet showing support for the Tates, he said, and he replied yes. “I have never met the Tate Brothers, I’ve never been to Romania,” Mr. Grenell said. His statement did not address the Mar-a-Lago conversation. Soon after the Munich conference, the prime minister posted on social media that the United States had not made any requests or demands on Romania. ‘The Tate Escape’ By then, the Tates’ legal problems were snowballing. In Britain, the women who had accused Andrew of rape and assault a decade earlier were suing him in civil court. And prosecutors had authorizedtrafficking and rape charges against the brothers based on allegations involving three other women. In America, Homeland Security anti-trafficking agents had been conducting interviews about the Tates, according to people familiar with the confidential investigation. The agents were working with federal prosecutors who would go on to win the conviction of Sean Combs, the music mogul known as “Diddy.” Both offices declined to comment. In Romania, a judge had invalidated the 2023 indictment, citing procedural mistakes. But the prosecutors were trying to correct them and move forward with a case. They had presented evidence that, since 2014, the brothers had between them coerced more than 30 other women, including a 17-year-old, into their pornography operation, court records show. Mr. Tate was also accused of having sex with a 15-year-old and trying to bribe her to stay quiet. She told investigators he had beaten her with a belt and choked her until she passed out, according to the documents. The Tates have denied all criminal wrongdoing and Andrew has contested the civil claims. They said the new women cited in the Romanian investigation did not consider themselves trafficking victims. And they argued that being confined without an indictment violated their rights. They got their break in late February. The order came down instructing prosecutors to negotiate with them, according to two people familiar with the move who were not authorized to discuss it. The prime minister believed the Trump administration would be happy with the outcome, a third person said. On Feb. 25, the Tates officially requested to have their travel restrictions removed. In a text message the next day, Mr. Tate shared his long-sought victory with someone close with him. Andrew Tate I have very details instructions from the americans about crossing borders, phones, passports etc. I cant say more. This goes into instant effect. In the early hours of Feb. 27, the brothers drove to the airport, as documented in a video titled “The Tate Escape.” They beamed at each other as the plane took off for Florida. When asked that day whether the Trump administration had aided in the Tates’ release, their lawyer, Mr. McBride, told The Times: “Do the math. These guys are on the plane.”>>>

Yeesh. I certainly do not, but I can remember when quite a few Maga followers applauded him for raising corrupt issues with the Clinton’s, & imo it was a primary reason for his rise.

<<<End all foreign wars and close overseas military bases.>>> Seems awfully America First.

I’d like to ask MAGAs to think waaaayyyy back, to 2016. I’m sure you remember the clarion call that Sanders made and which resonated with so many, about the issue of corruption and the Clintons. Many maga folks embraced it then. Trump really piggybacked on that, though we obviously had background reasons back then to know he’d have his own corruption issues. I don’t think any of us could imagine it would metastasize to such fantastically huge proportions. There is no comparison for Trump’s corruption in American history. It is truly unique. This is the DSA statement on it’s platform: <<<End political corruption and legalized bribery: get rid of lobbyists, dark money, and Citizens United, and publicly finance all elections.>>> I think the Dems’ complete fecklessness in dealing with this issue is driving a lot of what is going on. The other issue is Israel-Palestine. And imo it is certainly not out of sympathy for Hisbullah or Hamas, but outrage over the Israeli conduct of the war. I agree with Volt on the items he picked out and his evaluation of them (well except state corporate ownership). And there are a few others like the basic old progressive social agenda, like wages, health, housing, which he didn’t include. But imo these two issues - corruption & Israel - are what are driving things.

Well thst was interesting. I really need to finally watch Homeland. You may be right about Colbert getting a buzz from the producers but I’d keep in mind Colbert was driven off the air for expressing his beliefs. No doubt he wanted to steer clear of going down the road of discussing the Trump administration’s conflict with the IC.

<<<Establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people. Enact aggressive wealth taxes on the richest individuals and corporations to spend on public goods and infrastructure.>>> - “Not sure” I guess because Trump has been doing this and gradually expanding it. - IMO it is unconstitutional. It’s ridiculous to think our Founding Fathers Fathers wouldn’t have blanched at this.

Fwiw I’ve been going through these one by one - credit to you & Strike for posting the actual platform. So far I’ve seen 1. Labor rights (like 4 day work week) & 2. Healthcare (socialized medicine). This is the 3rd: <<<Housing is a human right. Build new, publicly-owned social housing, strictly regulate investment properties, establish universal rent control, and guarantee right to counsel for all tenants.>>> - Obvious objections here but I will point out the US has done this before or tried to, including under Republican administrations. But you really have to have lived in a big city to understand the implications of all this. In NO we finally tore down all the big housing projects.

IMO they’re unlinked. You could cut off all further immigration (assuming Congress did that) and probably socialized health care by itself could be quite crippling, especially if people aren’t willing to pay for it. the first item I posted might have some elements that could be addressed but again cost. Arguably you’d need *more people to pay for all this not fewer, in any event.

Well to be clear, that’s going well past liberalism.

Here is the second one. <<<Guarantee universal healthcare at no cost to individuals, including complete access to reproductive and gender-affirming care. Expand healthcare access and quality by investing in new public hospitals and clinics. Make all medical education and training public and free.>>> - We have gone down this road already. The costs might be crippling to the nation and the impact on quality of care could be serious.

Fwiw, I probably align with you on most of this stuff, but since you haven’t gotten any replies maybe take them one at a time. This is the first one; <<<Expand public resources to support recreation, learning, and social spaces accessible to all. Establish paid family leave for all workers, a 32 hour work week with full pay and benefits, and a living minimum wage. Provide free, quality public education from pre-K to college and cancel all student debt.>>> - This is straight up Euro socialism. The first question is how to pay for all this (probably can’t) but also I can see how this would be a popular message.

Ah yes, cut to February & March again. Let’s try it again, how long do you think this will take?

You can’t attack international institutions and do so for years then simultaneously & out of the blue make demands & bark orders like a low rent hotel manager. It’s impossible because he’s impossible.

All I recall Harris saying about Biden was her suggesting he had opposed busing. Vance is talking about Trump’s core character there.

Vance was specifically talking about Trump & Maga there. I disagree about capitalism. If you’re anti-capitalism you need to seriously recalibrate your political leanings.

We do, because of our regulatory administrative state & our ability to rely on its independence.

Honestly this is fair game. I just thought the claim was interesting. Turns out the FDA did reverse itself.

Vance, who made his fame writing about the devastation of the opioid epidemic, compares Trump to a narcotic that numbs the pain of Americans suffering from legitimate socioeconomic changes. And he doesn’t call it a cult, but referencing Marx’s ‘religion is the opium of the masses’ certainly suggests a parallel.

Pentagon Withheld Dozens of U.S. Military Injuries in Iran War

Remember, kids, it’s America First, not Trump First. Choose.