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Mike MacGregor

Week 2 Smack!

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As soon as I finally sign some players, Saratoga Bloodhorses are going down!

 

Can someone lend me a decent playbook? :ph34r:

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Guest TheCheat

Blitzen's gonna be a pretty big fan of the impending division restoration after this w/end. :pointstosky: :mad: :mad:

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Blitzen's gonna be a pretty big fan of the impending division restoration after this w/end. :lol: :clap: :sleep:

You're right. After I beat the snot out of you, I'll be looking for fresh meat. :lol: :lol:

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Guest biggtyme13

If i get McGahee back than your in trouble

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Guest rotochamp1

Thank You Santana Moss! His performance vaulted the Geckos to the highest score of the week in our league :bench:

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Another dominating performance against a worthy adversary. :cry: :cry: :cry:

 

On another note, anybody think that Roy Williams will need counseling after being burned twice very deep by Marc Brunell? His career may be over.

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Guest TheCheat
Another dominating performance against a worthy adversary. :banana: :wall: :first:

 

On another note, anybody think that Roy Williams will need counseling after being burned twice very deep by Marc Brunell? His career may be over.

:unsure: Too strong on both sides of the ball.

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I'm not sure exactly when the stats are final, but it looks like I pulled off a 1 pt win. :thumbsup:

 

Thank god for Defense and ST, since my offense suxors.

 

But all is not a bed of roses in the dogpound. I get my first win, but next week I get the Geckos at Bulldog Stadium. Time to start praying for a miracle. :)

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I'm out!

 

This is driving me crazy. How the hell do I keep loosing? My team continues to outscore the opposing team and the absolutley bizzare scoring system cost me the win. I'd be fine if the teams I'm playing would be beating me but I'm loosing to the scoring system.

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I'm out!

Que? :thumbsup:

 

Are you saying that you're no longer going to be participating at all or are you just expressing your frustration with the system? Seems to be a little weird to me to give up after 2 weeks. :thumbsup:

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I'm out!

 

This is driving me crazy. How the hell do I keep loosing? My team continues to outscore the opposing team and the absolutley bizzare scoring system cost me the win. I'd be fine if the teams I'm playing would be beating me but I'm loosing to the scoring system.

I understand being frustrated, but your statement that "my team continues to outscore the opposing team" isn't true. If you consider offense, defense and special teams as the "true" indicators, you still lost week one-166.8 to 158.6. In our matchup, it was 128.2 for you to 123.4 to me - in other words, it's not like you blew me out. But the other aspects of scoring are still part of the rules (an intricate and confusing part, granted) but still a part nonetheless - and we are all playing by the same rules. If your defensive alignment is out of whack is that the scoring system's fault?

 

I'm hoping this is just venting some frustration, and the not the sour grapes coming from a cry baby :cry: that it sounds like - especially the part about quitting. :thumbsup:

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To clarify, this is clearly frustration on my part. I'm going to continue to be active.

 

On to the scoring, it's crazy. I mentioned very early in another post that GDR is far too complicated to only have a user guide as a template. This product will never catch on with this degree of complexity.

 

The blitz was awesome. The basic structure works really well. The GM rating was a little too powerful during the blitz. Now, the GM rating is worthless during the season. The fact a player on the field can commit 6 turnovers and that still results in a positive score is ridiculous. On the other hand the defensive strategy scoring has incredible outcome on games. The whole premise of GDR was to use on real-time performance in games.In my opinion it's turning out to be more of a sim type game.

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The fact a player on the field can commit 6 turnovers and that still results in a positive score is ridiculous.

Well, first of all he had 5 turnovers, not 6. NFL.com shows 5 int's, it shows 2 fumbles for Bennett, no fumbles for C-pep.

 

Second, under fairly standard FF scoring, C-pep scored 8 (versus 40 under the same scoring system for Carson Palmer). Culpepper threw for 236 yds, had a rushing TD, 10 yds rushing and completed a pass for a 2 pt conversion and yes, even with 5 ints (at -2 per), that adds up to 8 points.

 

So in gameday, you got about the same score for Palmer as in "traditional" scoring, but I got 5 less for Culpepper. I should be the one complaining, not you.

 

Quit your bellyaching, dude.

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I still don't have a good handle on the scheme bonus area.

 

The best scheme bonus I got was for S.Davis's 3 TD day and it was less than 7 points if I recall correctly.

 

This game has a lot of hurdles to overcome if it is going to find a wide market. I would suggest they develop a "game lab" simulator for the newbie (which should be all of us, but isn't) to learn the impact of decisions on roster, scheme and depth chart.

 

It is frustrating and only compounds the bad taste of the perverted power of the GM rating (players taking 20% less in money because of the "shady" factor rolleyes.gif .) I am still steamed over this and would not recommend the game as it stands to anyone.

 

Personally, winning and losing isn't the criteria I judge a game by. It is "am I having fun". So far, this hasn't been much fun. Maybe it will get better. I'll keep plugging away this season.

 

The above is from Dan Sez in the scoring fluxored thread.

 

I feel the same. Gate's you may want to step away from the edge. I'm really not concerned with the W-L. The overall experience is not what it should be. The bottom line should be do one team's players outperform the other team's. That is not the case in this system.

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I still don't have a good handle on the scheme bonus area.

 

The best scheme bonus I got was for S.Davis's 3 TD day and it was less than 7 points if I recall correctly.

 

This game has a lot of hurdles to overcome if it is going to find a wide market. I would suggest they develop a "game lab" simulator for the newbie (which should be all of us, but isn't) to learn the impact of decisions on roster, scheme and depth chart.

 

It is frustrating and only compounds the bad taste of the perverted power of the GM rating (players taking 20% less in money because of the "shady" factor rolleyes.gif .) I am still steamed over this and would not recommend the game as it stands to anyone.

 

Personally, winning and losing isn't the criteria I judge a game by. It is "am I having fun". So far, this hasn't been much fun. Maybe it will get better. I'll keep plugging away this season.

 

The above is from Dan Sez in the scoring fluxored thread.

 

I feel the same. Gate's you may want to step away from the edge. I'm really not concerned with the W-L. The overall experience is not what it should be. The bottom line should be do one team's players outperform the other team's. That is not the case in this system.

If I'm on the edge, it's because I'm trying to see the stain you left when you jumped off.

 

You're the one threatening to quit and then pissing and moaning six ways from Sunday about the scoring system. If you're not happy with Gameday, I get that. Nothing's perfect. I guess you know what to do next year, then.

 

I can understand frustration to an extent, but I take exception with the sour grapes attitude and the untrue/illogical statements that you are making:

 

1) You are outscoring everyone you are playing, but the scoring system is beating you.

 

Wrong. Combining offense, defense and ST-for week 1-YOU GOT OUTSCORED

 

2) You are unhappy about Daunte Culpepper's scoring and you think it was unfair that he should get 3 points.

 

Compared to traditional scoring, your QB (Palmer) scored the same in Gameday while mine (Culpepper) scored 5 less in Gameday.

 

Gameday is supposed to go beyond traditional FFL and give owners a chance to be a coach AND a GM as well. These factors bring in some of the strategic scoring elements that you seem to be having a problem with. You say it should just be about whether one team's players outperform anothers (which yours didn't the first week contrary to what you are saying.) That is traditional FFL, and if that's what you prefer, then god bless you. But you got into Gameday having the same chance to read and understand the same rules that we all did. Could the User's Manual be better - no doubt-but again we are all playing with the same manual.

 

Enough said about this as far as I'm concerned. Go on complaining about the injustice of the scoring system if you want, but most people are probably just going to see for the whining that it is.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Peace, out....

 

Gates

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Guest TheCheat

I lost to a Canadian, so something must be wrong. :ph34r:

 

I pretty much agree w/ everything Gate said. I think the thing to do is try to isolate places where unexpected things are happening this year, and provide the gdr folks w/ that feedback.

 

The QB scoring's a popular topic. On the one hand, I don't see how you could look at the scoring and appendixes in the manual and *not* see how sick QBs were going to be in this league. (I like this departure from traditional FF myself, as it better resembles real football. But, I don't like how much halfbacks are being diminished as a result, I think it swings too much the other way right now.) Otoh, even I'm surprised by some of the QB totals I've seen.

 

Certain basic def. scoring categories weren't even included until the final rev. of the manual...there were some really big pieces moving around quite late, so it's no surprise to me there are weighting issues. The good news, imo, is we get to tell 'em what we don't like -- like Dan, I'd like to see the power of the GM rating reined in during the FAB (tho prob. not as much as Dan :thumbsup:), for example -- and help shape the thing. Then it's on the gdr folks to do the right thing w/ the feedback in next year's design.

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I still don't have a good handle on the scheme bonus area.

 

The best scheme bonus I got was for S.Davis's 3 TD day and it was less than 7 points if I recall correctly.

 

This game has a lot of hurdles to overcome if it is going to find a wide market. I would suggest they develop a "game lab" simulator for the newbie (which should be all of us, but isn't) to learn the impact of decisions on roster, scheme and depth chart.

 

It is frustrating and only compounds the bad taste of the perverted power of the GM rating (players taking 20% less in money because of the "shady" factor rolleyes.gif .) I am still steamed over this and would not recommend the game as it stands to anyone.

 

Personally, winning and losing isn't the criteria I judge a game by. It is "am I having fun". So far, this hasn't been much fun. Maybe it will get better. I'll keep plugging away this season.

 

The above is from Dan Sez in the scoring fluxored thread.

 

I feel the same. Gate's you may want to step away from the edge. I'm really not concerned with the W-L. The overall experience is not what it should be. The bottom line should be do one team's players outperform the other team's. That is not the case in this system.

If I'm on the edge, it's because I'm trying to see the stain you left when you jumped off.

 

You're the one threatening to quit and then pissing and moaning six ways from Sunday about the scoring system. If you're not happy with Gameday, I get that. Nothing's perfect. I guess you know what to do next year, then.

 

I can understand frustration to an extent, but I take exception with the sour grapes attitude and the untrue/illogical statements that you are making:

 

1) You are outscoring everyone you are playing, but the scoring system is beating you.

 

Wrong. Combining offense, defense and ST-for week 1-YOU GOT OUTSCORED

 

2) You are unhappy about Daunte Culpepper's scoring and you think it was unfair that he should get 3 points.

 

Compared to traditional scoring, your QB (Palmer) scored the same in Gameday while mine (Culpepper) scored 5 less in Gameday.

 

Gameday is supposed to go beyond traditional FFL and give owners a chance to be a coach AND a GM as well. These factors bring in some of the strategic scoring elements that you seem to be having a problem with. You say it should just be about whether one team's players outperform anothers (which yours didn't the first week contrary to what you are saying.) That is traditional FFL, and if that's what you prefer, then god bless you. But you got into Gameday having the same chance to read and understand the same rules that we all did. Could the User's Manual be better - no doubt-but again we are all playing with the same manual.

 

Enough said about this as far as I'm concerned. Go on complaining about the injustice of the scoring system if you want, but most people are probably just going to see for the whining that it is.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Peace, out....

 

Gates

Gates I'm really not using our specific game as the pinnacle example.

 

What I am saying is this game seems to been based on a moving target goal. I think they've missed the mark on what GDR was trying to accomplish. I too hope they get the problems fixed, but there is a very real argument to be made that this format was not ready for prime time.

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I'm out!

 

This is driving me crazy. How the hell do I keep loosing? My team continues to outscore the opposing team and the absolutley bizzare scoring system cost me the win. I'd be fine if the teams I'm playing would be beating me but I'm loosing to the scoring system.

OK, well it sounds like you are stepping back from the above comments, and trying to frame this now as you are just philosophically discussing the flaws of the scoring system.

 

That's fine, then...I think we can all agree GDR is not perfect. Hopefully, the GDR team will take the valid suggestions being made here and make some improvements prior to next season. Good luck with your season. :wall:

 

Peace, out...

 

Gates

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There is no use us beating up on each other. We didn't market a "work in progress". We were just recruited to play a beta product.

 

Face it. Deal with it. Call it what it is.

 

Back to the issue of Do Over, if they change the model to any degree, then what is the purpose of carrying over rosters from this year?

 

As a group, we asked, mulitiple times for a Mock to try and get a grasp on the drafting and its ramifications. I can see that such a thing at that time was impossible because they were still working on development.

 

There is a lot of potential in this concept. There are also some mighty big problems. I hope they fix them but in the fixing, what does that do to the current "dynasty"? By changing the power of the GM rating in Free Agency, how will that impact player acquition this year versus last year. Not having "Insider Info" in the regular season was not anticipated nor stated in the rules, but apparently the BBallers "knew". Is that fair? Is that type of inequity good for the league? In many ways this whole year is nothing but a Mock.

 

Face it. Deal with it. Call it what it is.

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There is no use us beating up on each other. We didn't market a "work in progress". We were just recruited to play a beta product.

 

Face it. Deal with it. Call it what it is.

 

Back to the issue of Do Over, if they change the model to any degree, then what is the purpose of carrying over rosters from this year?

 

As a group, we asked, mulitiple times for a Mock to try and get a grasp on the drafting and its ramifications. I can see that such a thing at that time was impossible because they were still working on development.

 

There is a lot of potential in this concept. There are also some mighty big problems. I hope they fix them but in the fixing, what does that do to the current "dynasty"? By changing the power of the GM rating in Free Agency, how will that impact player acquition this year versus last year. Not having "Insider Info" in the regular season was not anticipated nor stated in the rules, but apparently the BBallers "knew". Is that fair? Is that type of inequity good for the league? In many ways this whole year is nothing but a Mock.

 

Face it. Deal with it. Call it what it is.

Well I spent a shiotload of time preparing for this year after realizing how complicated it was. I think I drafted a very balanced team with few holes so I'm not a big fan of redrafting next year. If this had been a mock, I would have spent far less time on it. So I'm not a big fan of calling it a mock after the fact.

 

I figured the GM rating would be important so I took care not to do ridiculous things to drop it. I still think it's an important concept to prevent owners from making numerous wild bids and rescinding them all after with no consequences. I think an owner doing that would not last long in the real NFL. So at a minimum, I think something like the GM rating is needed and yes, it will carry some power. I agree that in the real world, money is very important, but I simply don't think owners can make wild offers and rescind them all without ANY consequences. You need the mechanism to prevent this and reward owners who negotiate well.

 

We could start with everyone at the same GM rating next year if that helps any and/or I would suggest having a GM rating that goes up or down a little more slowly.

 

In terms of scoring, I don't really have a problem with QBs getting the high proportion of points as I think the QB position is key. Yes it's possible to have an ordinary QB and still win (Baltimore SB) but I think this is the exception, not the rule. Think Detroit or Chicago. I don't think my QBs will be world beaters but I wasn't expecting to draft the best QBs anyway. I do think the ones I have are solid however. Just wasn't prepared to pay high bucks for the top ones. There are probably some philosophical questions to debate such as is a lost fumble more important in a game than a sack in terms of points, or how much do you reward a team for calling a DEF playbook that really matches the opponent's OFF, but it would have been difficult to get all of this right the very first year.

 

Is it complicated? Yes. Is it for everyone? Hell no. Most of my local pool guys wouldn't go for it ever - they think having a DEF/ST makes the game too complicated. Do I like the concept? Definitely, and I think it will only get better. Do I like the fact that this looks like a beta product? No, but I'll live with it to help shape it. And if it stays a couple of steps behind ordinary FF, then the GDR guys will just keep trying more. I like the fact that they seem responsive to suggestions.

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I figured the GM rating would be important so I took care not to do ridiculous things to drop it....

 

 

We could start with everyone at the same GM rating next year if that helps any and/or I would suggest having a GM rating that goes up or down a little more slowly.

the only ridiculous things I did was

 

1. recend a RED offer in the first day of the FAB, which the user manual explicitedly said we could do without a penalty.

 

2. made a late offer to a QB (within the 10% window) good enough to get the Green Level, also signed him but wound up with a -7 GM hit??? wtf does that mean? That the player is pizzed I gave him significantly more money? Bullshit. Unrealistic. Disporportional to the crime.

 

I did reduce a couple of bids when I got into Years trouble late in the FAB, those couple are somewhat legit hits.

 

but currently I have a 100 GM rating and would not want to reset the GM rating without reseting the rosters. What I really want are the three players I lost to lower bids, but that ain't happening. Changes in the GM power and rating does nothing to correct the damage already done.

 

So keep the ratings, keep the rosters. Lets see who shows up next year at $30 a pop.

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I figured the GM rating would be important so I took care not to do ridiculous things to drop it....

 

 

We could start with everyone at the same GM rating next year if that helps any and/or I would suggest having a GM rating that goes up or down a little more slowly.

the only ridiculous things I did was

 

1. recend a RED offer in the first day of the FAB, which the user manual explicitedly said we could do without a penalty.

 

2. made a late offer to a QB (within the 10% window) good enough to get the Green Level, also signed him but wound up with a -7 GM hit??? wtf does that mean? That the player is pizzed I gave him significantly more money? Bullshit. Unrealistic. Disporportional to the crime.

 

I did reduce a couple of bids when I got into Years trouble late in the FAB, those couple are somewhat legit hits.

 

but currently I have a 100 GM rating and would not want to reset the GM rating without reseting the rosters. What I really want are the three players I lost to lower bids, but that ain't happening. Changes in the GM power and rating does nothing to correct the damage already done.

 

So keep the ratings, keep the rosters. Lets see who shows up next year at $30 a pop.

I thought #1 was changed in a later version of the manual (prior to the FAB), but I may be wrong on that. I agree that #2 is somewhat unrealistic but I do think that you have to penalize this type of activity as there is a specific time by which a deal will be taken (which I don't think applies to the NFL - owners do not know for sure that player X will take a deal by Monday at 1PM). This is needed to make sure the FAB ends within a reasonable amount of time. If owners can wait until the last minute to offer deals, and can know what the best offer on the table is, it will penalize owners for having to work at the deadline instead of spending time at GDR. And you have to come down pretty hard immediately because if you make it so that an owner will only be penalized after 4-5 offenses, that owner will still be able to snatch 4-5 top guys simply because he could spend the time at GDR instead of at work at the right time. I'm guessing that if you took a -7, you must have been well into the 10%.

 

I realize this isn't like the NFL but we're not really NFL owners either and there need to be adjustments made to account for the fact that people have other lives. I think it's a complex system and it's a pretty good first go at it.

 

What I think those of us interested in staying next year need to know is who already plans on bolting next year. We do have one or two other people interested and on a waiting list and if someone isn't committed to next year, then I would like to see these other owners given a shot at managing.

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... and I have ranted enough about this.

 

I've paid for this year and will play through this season.

 

My intent was to stay for the long haul but that was under these assumptions:

1. it is a learning curve we all were equal under (not true)

2. that the game was ready to roll (not true - how long did we wait from recruitment till we could get into the FAB managment screens)

3. that the rules would not change (??)

 

I guess I don't have the inclination to pay to be someone's game tester. Good beta testers get paid or at minimum get free product (testing and final).

 

I am not angry at anyone here, not even at GDR. I just feel taken advantage of on some level, some miscommunication and different expectations, frustration at the lack of clear documentation, obfuscation of the power of the GM and how one can steal players with it... (well, I am still steamed over that).

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