So the US Government is "forcing" automakers to increase gas mileage in

[dcOne 2]

It was incredible seeing the differences in what the "get" vs. what they "will get". This was on NBC's Today show yesterday.

One example I rememeber, was like the Chevy Suburban going from like 16 mpg current, to a mandatory 24 mpg in 2011.

 

This only proves that they simply have been "withholding technology" the past however many years.

 

So okay, gas mileage goes up, but the oil companies and middlemen still need their profits, so won't increasing gas mileage simply raise the price of fuel?

[parrot 789]

It was incredible seeing the differences in what the "get" vs. what they "will get". This was on NBC's Today show yesterday.

One example I rememeber, was like the Chevy Suburban going from like 16 mpg current, to a mandatory 24 mpg in 2011.

 

This only proves that they simply have been "withholding technology" the past however many years.

How does it prove any such thing? No question they can increase the gas mileage, but there might be a tradeoff in regards to horsepower and/or torque.

[dcOne 2]

but there might be a tradeoff in regards to horsepower and/or torque.

 

That's because your mind has been 'trained' to believe that a HP/MPG trade-off has to take place.

 

I'll call B.S. on that. You can get "super-chips" whatever you want to call them, that you can install right now, that prove your theory false. I believe one brand is called the Hyper-Tech? In a 2005 Ford F250 Diesel engine, the chip will increase HP by 75 to 125 horse, increase torque (not sure how much), and increase gas mileage by 2-3 mpg.

[brinett9 0]

This bill is coupled with an official shortening of the mile to 128 feet.

[Electric Mayhem 35]

So okay, gas mileage goes up, but the oil companies and middlemen still need their profits, so won't increasing gas mileage simply raise the price of fuel?

 

no, it will lower prices

 

that's economy 101 - supply and demand. More supply (higher MPG) = less demand = lower prices

 

of course by 2011 there will be significantly less oil in the world, so that will enter into the supply equation as well

[brinett9 0]

no, it will lower prices

 

that's economy 101 - supply and demand. More supply (higher MPG) = less demand = lower prices

I guess you don't learn about price fixing in Econ 101.

[Electric Mayhem 35]

I guess you don't learn about price fixing in Econ 101.

 

You learn that in Business 101, not Econ

[hoytdwow 202]

You learn that in Business 101, not Econ

[dcOne 2]

no, it will lower prices

 

that's economy 101 - supply and demand. More supply (higher MPG) = less demand = lower prices

 

of course by 2011 there will be significantly less oil in the world, so that will enter into the supply equation as well

 

 

I have trouble with the "supply-demand" excuse (that oil companies use). They say "Gas prices are high because there is low supply and high demand". Of course there is high demand. That's almost like saying their is a high demand for food, water and oxygen.

 

The low supply thing baffles me. There was a low supply of PS3s. I went to the store. They only had 2. Next day, next week, next month, they had 0. That is low supply.

 

 

I go to "Gas Station A". They had all the gas I wanted. As did "Gas Station B, C, D, E, F, G, etc"

 

To me, it looks like there is a low supply of $1.50-$2.00 gas, but there seems to be an abundance of $2.60 gas.

[Jeff Garcia 8]

I guess you don't learn about price fixing in Econ 101.

 

What price fixing? "We don't know why our profits are at historic highs, when we are paying more for oil then ever."

 

That crap the oil companies spew is pissing a lot of people off.

[parrot 789]

That's because your mind has been 'trained' to believe that a HP/MPG trade-off has to take place.

Are you familiar with the term "might", as in "there might be a tradeoff"?

 

I don't know what you're calling BS on. I never said it couldn't be done, I said this isn't proof of what you claim it is. HTH.

[GobbleDog 816]

of course by 2011 there will be significantly less oil in the world, so that will enter into the supply equation as well

 

In just 5 years? "Significantly less" ? I don't know about that. There's oil everywhere. They pump it out of South America, the Middle East, Texas, Alaska, Russia, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.............. And there's plenty of other places where we know oil is there but haven't drilled yet.

 

I wish they'd pump it out faster and lower my gas bill.

[dcOne 2]

Are you familiar with the term "might", as in "there might be a tradeoff"?

 

I don't know what you're calling BS on. I never said it couldn't be done, I said this isn't proof of what you claim it is. HTH.

 

Since vehicles can already be forced (via chip) to increase both mileage, HP, & torque, their is no "might".

 

Since they CAN, that is proof. If an aftermarket company can do it, the automakers can do it.

 

That's what I'm calling BS on--the fact that there is this supposed "tradeoff". Not what YOU said...but what the "Auto-Industry" has portrayed/said the last 30 years.

 

What if Microsoft said "We can make computers with bigger Hard Drives, faster processors, etc, but we're going to triple the size." What if Sony said the same thing about Camcorders, MP3 Players, etc?

 

So in other words (the way the automakers act), "Advancements in technology can be used in every industry but ours."

[Electric Mayhem 35]

In just 5 years? "Significantly less" ? I don't know about that. There's oil everywhere. They pump it out of South America, the Middle East, Texas, Alaska, Russia, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.............. And there's plenty of other places where we know oil is there but haven't drilled yet.

 

I wish they'd pump it out faster and lower my gas bill.

 

I gues it depends on what your read/hear and what you believe. i have no idea but I've heard/read that we are amost through all the "easily accessable" oil fields and will have to start getting at the harder to reach stuff (which costs more to extract and refine).

 

Heck, for all I know there is no such thing as "oil" and engines have been running on a water and molasses mixture for 20 years. The whole thing could be a big scam.

[GobbleDog 816]

I don't know the real statistics either. But there sure seems to be a bunch of it.

[dcOne 2]

http://www.kfdm.com/engine.pl?station=kfdm...akoutlocal.html

 

This talks a bit about about it. Not any real specifics. I thought this part was interesting:

"The auto industry, which has fought past attempts to raise fuel economy standards, but expressed support for the plan's direction, said the new system would mean seven straight years of higher gas mileage requirements."

 

 

The article only shows a modest overall increase in mileage. There were some on the Today show, that really jumped up. Like I said, the Suburban was some crazy increase.

[parrot 789]

Since vehicles can already be forced (via chip) to increase both mileage, HP, & torque, their is no "might".

You're talking the difference between an incremental increase and a quantum leap. Increasing fuel efficiency by a factor of 50% might well involve some power tradeoff, this seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Stumpnov 0]

Since vehicles can already be forced (via chip) to increase both mileage, HP, & torque, their is no "might".

 

Since they CAN, that is proof. If an aftermarket company can do it, the automakers can do it.

 

That's what I'm calling BS on--the fact that there is this supposed "tradeoff". Not what YOU said...but what the "Auto-Industry" has portrayed/said the last 30 years.

 

What if Microsoft said "We can make computers with bigger Hard Drives, faster processors, etc, but we're going to triple the size." What if Sony said the same thing about Camcorders, MP3 Players, etc?

 

So in other words (the way the automakers act), "Advancements in technology can be used in every industry but ours."

There is still a trade off using these chips, it is just not gas mileage. Using these chips will frequently cause your engine to operate at a higher temperature and higher max compression, they can also cause it to shift later increasing the RPMs that your vehicle operates at. In this case you are trading things like maintenance costs, engine longevity and higher emissions for performance and gas mileage. You may also have to move to a higher grade of gasoline to avoid little things like detonation.

[hoytdwow 202]

No blood for oil!

[phillybear 364]

Don't Forget Poland!!

[Electric Mayhem 35]

Don't Forget Poland!!

 

 

Oh yeah:

 

Poland has to make all their wheels bigger, so, you know, each rotation gets you farther, thus saving on gas.

[parrot 789]

Phillybear's car runs on bile.