does this administration evah tell the truth?

[indybearsfan 0]

what the hell is this now..

[Giants Fan 85]

I am the son .... and the heir,

Of a shyness that is criminaly vulgar.

I am the son and heir ... of nothing in particular.

 

You shut your mouth, how can you say,

I go about things the wrong way?

I am human and I need to be loved,

Just like everybody else does.

 

- The Smith's "How Soon is Now"

[ZeroTolerance 582]

Administration lied, this story later in our broadcast. But first out top story, in a stunning turn of events, the sun rose in the east this morning, later setting in the west.

[Giants Fan 85]

If you want to talk about family credentials here in America ... I've got Bush beat. Most of you do. Herbert Walker's business was shut down after WW2 for trading with the Nazi's under the "Trading with the Enemy" act ... but nobody wants to talk about that. Or Dubya's drinking and driving, or drug use past he refuses to answer. And what about perhaps the 2 greatest tragedies this country has ever seen, 9/11 and Katrina and a generally inept federal response. Even worse, a misguided strike, and now an ongoing war where the story keeps changing about why we are there.

 

You've been duped America. You too ... immigrants. I don't see any Viva Bush stickers in Arizona anymore.

[Uh-huh 0]

I still see plenty of "Bush/Cheney" and "W 04" stickers in South Florida.

[Giants Fan 85]

I still see plenty of "Bush/Cheney" and "W 04" stickers in South Florida.

 

Faded and peeling. Around here though ... they TOOK OFF the Viva Bush stickers. Used to see them all over the place a year ago.

 

DUMBFOCKS! 'BOUT TIME!

[dcOne 2]

Anyone ever notice that most people simply like to whine and cry about how things are? Even though their daily lives are really not affected by what they are whining about.

[Giants Fan 85]

I don't employ an illegal alien.

 

However, if rich people can hire a gardner for a full day for $20, that means that anyone who knows their rights to a minimum wage job, wont take the same job. It's not an issue of people wont do it. I washed dishes for $3.35 an hour when I was a teenager. That was minimum wage then. People will take the jobs, if the pay is there, but as American's we wont work for less than minimum wage .... because that's the law.

 

So ... crackdown on the employers. Make them pay minimum wage. Make them follow the law and let the most skilled, dedicated worker get the job. Let the market figure it out, within the confines and guidlines of basic labor laws. Because it trickles up. If the guy who used to get minimum wage pulling weeds, can't get a job washing dishes or day laboring for minimum wage, he hasta find more specializwd work that pays better to make a living and that encroaches on established people in that industry, who are forced to branch into new businesses, and so on. It trickles up. It devalues all of our jobs if it's OK to pay someone under minimum wage. Waters down the job market. Makes pay go down across the board.

[The Motorcycle Boy 0]

I am the son .... and the heir,

Of a shyness that is criminaly vulgar.

I am the son and heir ... of nothing in particular.

 

You shut your mouth, how can you say,

I go about things the wrong way?

I am human and I need to be loved,

Just like everybody else does.

 

- The Smith's "How Soon is Now"

 

The fact that you can quote The Smith's might mean you are qay.

 

[D'ohmer Simpson 0]

does this administration evah tell the truth?

Once. I think.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Once. I think.

 

I'd like to see that, because I've never seen it in the 6 years of suffering we are going through.

[brinett9 0]

Here's one:

 

"After the statement is read, we will not be taking any questions."

[Jeremy 0]

Anyone ever notice that most people simply like to whine and cry about how things are? Even though their daily lives are really not affected by what they are whining about.

 

So you're saying I shouldn't care if our leaders are corrupt if it doesn't affect me directly? Nice citizenship.

[parrot 789]

Anyone ever notice that most people simply like to whine and cry about how things are? Even though their daily lives are really not affected by what they are whining about.

Yeah, hardly anyone has friends or family serving in Iraq.

[brinett9 0]

Yeah, hardly anyone has friends or family serving in Iraq.

Let's not bicker and argue about "Who killed who."

[mighty_thor 115]

If you want to talk about family credentials here in America ... I've got Bush beat. Most of you do. Herbert Walker's business was shut down after WW2 for trading with the Nazi's under the "Trading with the Enemy" act ...

 

Do you mean Prescott Bush? The company was shutdown during World War 2. He was a senator.

[Fumbleweed 423]

I'd like to see that, because I've never seen it in the 6 years of suffering we are going through.

 

I didn't care for Clinton necesarily, but I never described it as "6 years of suffering".

 

If your life is so closely linked to the policies of a president, unless you are part of the US military, I would suggest pushing away from the table and focusing your energy in some other direction. Then, when it's time to vote again, vote for who you do want to be in office. Seems like this attitude is poison injestion on your part.

 

I have enjoyed a great last six years. I enjoyed a great eight years while Clinton was in office. It is better to be detached, IMO.

[paulinstl 295]

. It is better to be detached, IMO.

 

 

 

 

And some would say that's exactly what the Germans did in the 30s.

 

 

[Fumbleweed 423]

And some would say that's exactly what the Germans did in the 30s.

 

I'm talking about the bitterness of it all. If all you do is go around talking about how terrible things are, your quality of life suffers.

 

People should focus their energies on things they can change.

[Korben Dallas 0]

I'm talking about the bitterness of it all. If all you do is go around talking about how terrible things are, your quality of life suffers.

 

People should focus their energies on things they can change.

 

 

My life is fine and I'm not bitter. I leave politics out of my overall life. Severely disappointed perhaps. I can think of a couple good things geo-politically in the last 6 years. The American people’s resilience in spite of the worst policy making decisions for one. In spite of having every decision made by this administration basically be an attempt to fock over 90% of the population, the states and local governments have bit the bullet and managed to take over several roles they shouldn’t have to. And I’m proud that finally 70% of the country has looked up and realized what an incredibly corrupt group the GOP is right now.

 

It depends if you possess compassion and altruism-those that don’t seem to be handling the past 6 years just fine.

[jerryskids 5,189]

I like this quote:

 

None would consent to being identified by name because of fear that their jobs would be jeopardized.

 

 

Umm, this just in, they prolly know what 9 folks they sent over.

 

The contents of the final report, "Final Technical Engineering Exploitation Report on Iraqi Suspected Biological Weapons-Associated Trailers," remains classified. But interviews reveal that the technical team was unequivocal in its conclusion that the trailers were not intended to manufacture biological weapons. Those interviewed took care not to discuss the classified portions of their work.

 

This statement makes no sense.

[MDC 5,890]

Anyone ever notice that most people simply like to whine and cry about how things are? Even though their daily lives are really not affected by what they are whining about.

 

That's a real patriot attitude you have.

 

I wrote to Arlen Specter this week to thank him for calling on President Bush to explain why he lied about the NIE leaks, and to urge him to call for a Congressional investigation of prewar intelligence. Enough is enough - we all know that Bush lied to convince the American public to support war in Iraq. The little charade he put on for the last few years over the Libby leak is at least grounds for censure, if not outright impeachment.

[SUXBNME 1,324]

I didn't care for Clinton necesarily, but I never described it as "6 years of suffering".

 

If your life is so closely linked to the policies of a president, unless you are part of the US military, I would suggest pushing away from the table and focusing your energy in some other direction. Then, when it's time to vote again, vote for who you do want to be in office. Seems like this attitude is poison injestion on your part.

 

I have enjoyed a great last six years. I enjoyed a great eight years while Clinton was in office. It is better to be detached, IMO.

 

 

Sorry Fumbleweed, but that attitude makes too much sense..

 

It's much better to b!tch about how the "current" president or administration is ruining our lives.

Everyone needs some form of a scapegoat to justify the unhappiness in their lives.

Better to point the finger than try to figure out a solution.

[MDC 5,890]

Sorry Fumbleweed, but that attitude makes too much sense..

 

It's much better to b!tch about how the "current" president or administration is ruining our lives.

Everyone needs some form of a scapegoat to justify the unhappiness in their lives.

Better to point the finger than try to figure out a solution.

 

Bush isn't ruining my life. He's just getting soldiers killed with his lies and gross incompetence. Apparently this isn't a big deal for you and Fumbleweed.

[Fumbleweed 423]

Bush isn't ruining my life. He's just getting soldiers killed with his lies and gross incompetence. Apparently this isn't a big deal for you and Fumbleweed.

 

Two things:

 

1. I was originally responding to this statement by Korben: "I've never seen it in the 6 years of suffering we are going through". I never said that Iraq was all fine and dandy by me. I was responding to Korben putting himself amongst the "suffering" as if Bush had turned his life personally on its ear. I questioned the utter drama of the statement.

 

2. The "it depends upon if you have compassion" comment is just ridiculous. In the field I'm in, I have to be neck-deep in compassion all the time.....that's who I am. But, I try to stay within the realm of things I can change as opposed to constantly b1tching about things that I can't. That "compassion" BS is a very poor stereotype. It's like saying all democrats or liberals aren't true "Christians". The labels and stereotypes are stupid and should be left out when discussing the issues.

[SUXBNME 1,324]

Bush isn't ruining my life. He's just getting soldiers killed with his lies and gross incompetence. Apparently this isn't a big deal for you and Fumbleweed.

 

 

Sorry bub..

All you know about our foriegn policy is what the media tells us. (usually with a nice left wing slant to it)

Unless you are in a position of knowing what really goes on behind the scenes all you can do is point fingers at whomever you feel is causing the problems. Obviously this can go both ways. Pro dem. or Rep.

Bush is just the figurehead you choose to take your rants out on.

Do you really think Bush makes our policy and decisions by himself?

It's a combination of many different "behind the scenes" people and factors that we as the public will probably never (and maybe shouldn't) know.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, you are obviously very compassionate about it, but you, like me probably don't know the whole story. Maybe if we did it would be alot scarier then it seems to be now..Who knows?

 

Free speech is great, but true knowledge is even greater..(not saying that you dont have any)

 

[Jeremy 0]

Bush is just the figurehead you choose to take your rants out on.

Do you really think Bush makes our policy and decisions by himself?

 

I don't think many people think Bush has a much of a hand in anything. I'm not real comfortable with this whole "the president as a figurehead thing". I like to think when I cast my vote on election day, the guy I'm voting for is actually a guy who's involved in making decisions. I don't know for sure, but the impression I get is that Bush got himself elected (twice), then hands it all over to a bunch of people I don't know anything about. That makes me a little nervous.

 

If he's going to do that, he's going to be have to be held accountable for the actions of his staff.

[SUXBNME 1,324]

I don't think many people think Bush has a much of a hand in anything. I'm not real comfortable with this whole "the president as a figurehead thing". I like to think when I cast my vote on election day, the guy I'm voting for is actually a guy who's involved in making decisions. I don't know for sure, but the impression I get is that Bush got himself elected (twice), then hands it all over to a bunch of people I don't know anything about. That makes me a little nervous.

 

If he's going to do that, he's going to be have to be held accountable for the actions of his staff.

 

Very true..As in "the buck stops here"

 

So us as voters need to figure out / make our best guess, who would really be making the decisions and decide that way...I guess all I was saying in that rant was that us simple people don't really know what goes on, and to take what we are told by the usually slanted media with a grain of salt.

[Korben Dallas 0]

Two things:

 

1. I was originally responding to this statement by Korben: "I've never seen it in the 6 years of suffering we are going through". I never said that Iraq was all fine and dandy by me. I was responding to Korben putting himself amongst the "suffering" as if Bush had turned his life personally on its ear. I questioned the utter drama of the statement.

 

2. The "it depends upon if you have compassion" comment is just ridiculous. In the field I'm in, I have to be neck-deep in compassion all the time.....that's who I am. But, I try to stay within the realm of things I can change as opposed to constantly b1tching about things that I can't. That "compassion" BS is a very poor stereotype. It's like saying all democrats or liberals aren't true "Christians". The labels and stereotypes are stupid and should be left out when discussing the issues.

 

1. I don't think it was all that dramatic. Bush has turned all our lives on their ear in my opinion. People are numb to incredible levels of corruption, Thousands of American troops and reservists are dead and 10 times that many permanantly injured over a falsehood, education, social and environmental policies have been set back 30 years, academic science and federal research has been dismantled, our deficit and debt levels are shafting the next 3 generations. I wish those were exagerations, but I'm probably understating the impact of a total GOP control. Clinton wasn't even close to this level and generally was a good president, maybe not Truman, FDR, Lincoln, but top half.

 

You seem to be cool with that as long as this administration pretends to be Christians. 1. They are clearly not. 2. I tend to believe in the message of Christ and not the dogma of sentences of literal text.

 

2. "The "it depends upon if you have compassion" comment is just ridiculous." I disgree, I don't think its a stretch at all to make the statement. Unlike people that resign yourself to "stay within the realm of things I can change as opposed to constantly b1tching about things that I can't." I am of the belief that all things can be changed or improved by planning, intelligence, altruism and action and that people should "b1tch" about people that are opposed to being anything but greedy and selfish. Just a difference of opinion I guess. I find it funny that you give carte blanche to those that lie, cheat, steal and harm, but label the people that oppose that as b1tches. Pretty focking shallow. I expected better out of you.

[jerryskids 5,189]

1. I don't think it was all that dramatic. Bush has turned all our lives on their ear in my opinion. People are numb to incredible levels of corruption, Thousands of American troops and reservists are dead and 10 times that many permanantly injured over a falsehood, education, social and environmental policies have been set back 30 years, academic science and federal research has been dismantled, our deficit and debt levels are shafting the next 3 generations. I wish those were exagerations, but I'm probably understating the impact of a total GOP control. Clinton wasn't even close to this level and generally was a good president, maybe not Truman, FDR, Lincoln, but top half.

 

You seem to be cool with that as long as this administration pretends to be Christians. 1. They are clearly not. 2. I tend to believe in the message of Christ and not the dogma of sentences of literal text.

 

2. "The "it depends upon if you have compassion" comment is just ridiculous." I disgree, I don't think its a stretch at all to make the statement. Unlike people that resign yourself to "stay within the realm of things I can change as opposed to constantly b1tching about things that I can't." I am of the belief that all things can be changed or improved by planning, intelligence, altruism and action and that people should "b1tch" about people that are opposed to being anything but greedy and selfish. Just a difference of opinion I guess. I find it funny that you give carte blanche to those that lie, cheat, steal and harm, but label the people that oppose that as b1tches. Pretty focking shallow. I expected better out of you.

Korben, I like you, so I'm going to give you my two cents even though ideologically I typically differ from you.

 

While what you say may be well-worded and, in the extreme, true, nobody on the "other" side from you is going to listen because it is too extreme. There is a protectionist tribal effect (on both sides), and your comments come off as "Bush hating". So people will tune you out.

 

In the example of the topic of this thread, that link is filled with crap and virtually no details, just a lot of innuendos and implications of statements from people in allegedly high positions with virtually nothing to substantiate it. Not saying the info isn't true, it might be, I'm just saying that this isn't a particularly fertile battleground IMO.

[DAVID RUFFIN 1]

"The trouble with our conservative friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

 

Homer Muzzy

[SUXBNME 1,324]

Korben, I like you

 

 

Careful, Korben....Nothing good can come from this...

[jerryskids 5,189]

Careful, Korben....Nothing good can come from this...

I've known Korben since before you were FFT born. He knows there is no manlove in my post.

 

Besides, I have enough girlfrineds here. I don't need another.

[SUXBNME 1,324]

I've known Korben since before you were FFT born. He knows there is no manlove in my post.

 

Besides, I have enough girlfrineds here. I don't need another.

 

 

According to TNG, Manlove is erotic...

[jerryskids 5,189]

According to TNG, Manlove is erotic...

Really? I didn't know that, I've been ignoring her too much. I'll have to talk to her and learn more about this.

[Fumbleweed 423]

You seem to be cool with that as long as this administration pretends to be Christians.

 

 

I find it funny that you give carte blanche to those that lie, cheat, steal and harm, but label the people that oppose that as b1tches. Pretty focking shallow. I expected better out of you.

 

 

What statement exactly are you drawing this opinion from? It has absolutely no basis. I wasn't even talking about this.....please explain.

 

 

I used the word '######' as a verb, not a noun. I don't understand your comment at all....wasn't giving Bush or anybody else a free pass.

 

 

You are inferring lots of things here that are not true/have no basis. Have no idea why.....

[Fumbleweed 423]

To take it a step further, it's like the patriotism argument. Some people would say that if you speak out against the military or government, you're being un-patriotic. Like patriotism has a single definition or something....

 

You're saying that anyone not totally appalled by Bush and the current government is greedy, selfish, and has no compassion. It's ridiculous and terribly judgmental. Not everybody sees things the same way as you- doesn't make them any of the things you suggested that they are necessarily.......

[Korben Dallas 0]

To take it a step further, it's like the patriotism argument. Some people would say that if you speak out against the military or government, you're being un-patriotic. Like patriotism has a single definition or something....

 

You're saying that anyone not totally appalled by Bush and the current government is greedy, selfish, and has no compassion. It's ridiculous and terribly judgmental. Not everybody sees things the same way as you- doesn't make them any of the things you suggested that they are necessarily.......

 

 

No Fumble, I'm saying that nearly every action, policy and position this administration has taken resides in either greed, corruption, or lack of consideration of the "other". Those that agree with this administration thus support those things, you don't get to pick one and pretend the other two don't exist. I don't expect people to see things the way I do, but usually that's because they don't have a problem with greed, corruption, or lack of compassion. I can think of several reasons why that's not always bad. For example, if I worked for Exxon or Hallburton. Or I'm from Texas, or I'm a corrupt businessman.

 

The fourth group are the blind-via ignorance or some more innocent reason.

[Fumbleweed 423]

No Fumble, I'm saying that nearly every action, policy and position this administration has taken resides in either greed, corruption, or lack of consideration of the "other". Those that agree with this administration thus support those things, you don't get to pick one and pretend the other two don't exist. I don't expect people to see things the way I do, but usually that's because they don't have a problem with greed, corruption, or lack of compassion. I can think of several reasons why that's not always bad. For example, if I worked for Exxon or Hallburton. Or I'm from Texas, or I'm a corrupt businessman.

 

The fourth group are the blind-via ignorance or some more innocent reason.

 

Problem is, you somewhere inferred that I agree with the administration on most things...which isn't true. Just because I spoke out on what I consider to be "Bush bashing" doesn't make me a staunch supporter.

 

The primary reason I voted for Bush had to do with my fears about who John Kerry would appoint to the Supreme Court. I have never agreed with all his policies....or even most of them. In particular, I think his stance on education has been downright awful for a number of reasons. I just don't see everything he has done as evil. I do like some things, not others. I'm not sure how that equates to picking one and pretending the others don't exist.....perhaps, you have inferred something from comments that weren't mine????

[MDC 5,890]

Two things:

 

1. I was originally responding to this statement by Korben: "I've never seen it in the 6 years of suffering we are going through". I never said that Iraq was all fine and dandy by me. I was responding to Korben putting himself amongst the "suffering" as if Bush had turned his life personally on its ear. I questioned the utter drama of the statement.

 

2. The "it depends upon if you have compassion" comment is just ridiculous. In the field I'm in, I have to be neck-deep in compassion all the time.....that's who I am. But, I try to stay within the realm of things I can change as opposed to constantly b1tching about things that I can't. That "compassion" BS is a very poor stereotype. It's like saying all democrats or liberals aren't true "Christians". The labels and stereotypes are stupid and should be left out when discussing the issues.

 

1. No argument from me. I'm not personally suffering through the Bush presidency, although I do think other people are.

 

2. This just seems to me to be your way of saying "You're not going to change anything so why even complain about it?" That IMO is a pretty weak argument. By b1tching to Arlen Specter, I'm letting him know that his constituents (and I did vote for him) are fed up with the lies and support him in demanding answers. I didn't say that you don't have compassion, but there really are lives at stake so it's awfully short sighted of you IMO to say "Who cares? Does the President really effect your life?" when people are dying because of his incompetence and mistakes. Maybe that sounds "dramatic," but Bush's commitment to guys like Rumsfeld and his total inability to ever swallow his pride and try new solutions to old problems is IMO part of the reason we're in the mess we're in in Iraq. So yeah, it's not ruining my life on a day-to-day basis but it's important to me.

 

Sorry bub..

All you know about our foriegn policy is what the media tells us. (usually with a nice left wing slant to it)

Unless you are in a position of knowing what really goes on behind the scenes all you can do is point fingers at whomever you feel is causing the problems. Obviously this can go both ways. Pro dem. or Rep.

Bush is just the figurehead you choose to take your rants out on.

Do you really think Bush makes our policy and decisions by himself?

It's a combination of many different "behind the scenes" people and factors that we as the public will probably never (and maybe shouldn't) know.

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, you are obviously very compassionate about it, but you, like me probably don't know the whole story. Maybe if we did it would be alot scarier then it seems to be now..Who knows?

 

Free speech is great, but true knowledge is even greater..(not saying that you dont have any)

 

 

No offense but this is one of the stupidest things I've read in awhile.

 

First you get in the liberal slant stuff. This is such a great catch all, because whenever you don't like reality you can fall back on blaming the liberal media and pretend the world is exactly how you want. Did you know that the liberal bias refrain started with Nixon as a last ditch effort to deflect the blame from his corruption? Looks like Bush is carrying the torch.

 

Far as Bush being a figurehead, to some extent you're right. I don't expect our President to micromanage all of our foreign policy. But I do expect him to hire good people and ultimately take responsibility for their decisions. Instead, Bush hires a bunch of ideologues like Rumsfeld and continues to support them even after they fock up over and over. This is what scares me about Bush - the man is either too arrogant or dumb to make changes when things don't work the first time. Do you really trust Rumsfeld to execute a military strike against Iran? He's done such a bang-up job in Iraq so far.

 

So in a nutshell your point is "Nobody knows anything, so why even worry about or care what the President does?" The kind of people who think this way usually support incompetents like Bush.