Reggie Bush.... the holdout BEGINS!

[RoadLizard 73]

Have a look at Fanball News and you'll see the Reggie Bush Horse-crap beggining already. Here we have another player that hasn't done ANYTHING and wants to be paid like a HOF'er right off the bat. Alls he has done so far in his career is blow through some shoddy college defenses. Whatever, who hasn't?

 

Apparently he wants No #1 pick money even though he was taken 2nd. Great Reggie.... thats the spirit. No reason to get in camp and actually play the game, just sit on your azz and force the Saints to blow their whole payroll on you.

 

This dude is a high-priced Dave Meggett.... he'll return kicks and that's about it. Too small, too geared towards college ball where the defenses part like the red sea and just let you run through un-touched.

 

Ah well.... glad to see the current financial situation that the Players Union loves so much is working so well.... right?

 

[football_scooter 0]

who didn't see this one coming?

 

 

As soon as I saw that he was on the cover (and in the commercials for) EA's NCAA Football, I knew he'd be a holdout - the ego is already out of control. Maybe this was part of why the Texans passed on him.

[Texansfan 0]

who didn't see this one coming?

As soon as I saw that he was on the cover (and in the commercials for) EA's NCAA Football, I knew he'd be a holdout - the ego is already out of control. Maybe this was part of why the Texans passed on him.

 

This is a MAJOR part of why the Texans passed on him... even though they won't admit it...

[Demon 0]

Alls he has done so far in his career is blow through some shoddy college defenses.

 

and get shutdown in the most hyped up game he played in, while getting completely overshadowed by the guy he beat for the heisman, who is currently negotiating and showing no sign of wanting to holdout.

 

I can't believe the Saints took Reggie. They should have known he would do something like this, his last name is Bush!

[shovelheadt 61]

Without understanding whether his demands are excessive or not, I don't have a problem with him holding out until the contract gets done. Almost every other high pick is doing the same. Just read an article where Ferguson and Mangold are doing it.

[Eriadoc 4]

I honestly think that the Texans had Mario Williams and Reggie Bush rated a damn close #1/#2 guy. So if you are torn between two players, what do you do? You pay attention to things like need, signability, the crap that surrounded Reggie and his parents in SD, and general attitude. When you factor in all those things, it's not as tough a decision. Money shouldn't have been an issue. The contract the Texans offered was $54 million, with $20 mill guaranteed. That's more than the #1 pick got last year, IIRC, so it's not like the Texans were lowballing him or anything.

 

With that offer on the table, John McClain (sportswriter, HoF seniors committee) asked Bush if he was going to sign with the Texans and Bush told him to tell Bob McNair to come up with more money. I'm sure that went over well.

[BirdBradyBobbyOrr 0]

Year in and year out guys holdout. And year in and year out those same guys get hurt. It might be fate, bad luck, or a result of not being in the right condition. Kellen Winslow, Ben Watson, Cedric Benson, those are just a few I can think of..

 

My point is? If Reggie Bush hold's out he's going to come back and try to do too much and end up getting injured.

[Demon 0]

word is that he is demanding more money than Mario Williams got

[donhaas 18]

Don't the Saints still have Deuce?

 

Where is Bush's leverage in this?

[famousb 11]

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

it's not like it's a week before the season starts and he's the only one left holding out. ALL first rd'ers basically hold out every year. It's part of seeing what everyone else signs for, and how their deals are structured. Plus this year is a whole additional bag-of-worms due to the CBA and what not...

Out of the 32 1st rd'ers, exactly how many are signed as of today???

 

so don't single out Bush (or any of the other ones) until everyone else is signed...

[mozzy84 0]

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

No kidding, people act like if they were Bush they would just take the first offer they get, while everyone on here would be trying to get the most money possible just like he is.

[famousb 11]

No kidding, people act like if they were Bush they would just take the first offer they get, while everyone on here would be trying to get the most money possible just like he is.

exactly!! what's the first thing anyone asks when they are offered a new job? - What's the pay...

[bigmurd 0]

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

it's not like it's a week before the season starts and he's the only one left holding out. ALL first rd'ers basically hold out every year. It's part of seeing what everyone else signs for, and how their deals are structured. Plus this year is a whole additional bag-of-worms due to the CBA and what not...

Out of the 32 1st rd'ers, exactly how many are signed as of today???

 

so don't single out Bush (or any of the other ones) until everyone else is signed...

 

The voice of reason

[uubeee 0]

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

it's not like it's a week before the season starts and he's the only one left holding out. ALL first rd'ers basically hold out every year. It's part of seeing what everyone else signs for, and how their deals are structured. Plus this year is a whole additional bag-of-worms due to the CBA and what not...

Out of the 32 1st rd'ers, exactly how many are signed as of today???

 

so don't single out Bush (or any of the other ones) until everyone else is signed...

 

BINGO!

 

Holdouts happen every year and every year people comlain about it. Get used to it guys, it's not going away. And it's not related to just Bush.

[Eriadoc 4]

No kidding, people act like if they were Bush they would just take the first offer they get, while everyone on here would be trying to get the most money possible just like he is.

 

There's a difference between trying to negotiate for a higher salary and just shooing yourself in the foot. The draft pick compensation has gotten outrageous, and I'm not aiming that at only Bush.

[dreadlocks34 0]

1. Reggie Bush is going to become Michael Vick 2 by being a solid player but never coming close to the unrealistic hype the media drummed up for him.

 

2. The only problem with the NFL CBA is the rookie salaries. It is too bad they don't have something in place like the NBA where the rookies are slotted and that would leave more money for the veterans.

[RamslovaMartzhata 3]

Have a look at Fanball News and you'll see the Reggie Bush Horse-crap beggining already. Here we have another player that hasn't done ANYTHING and wants to be paid like a HOF'er right off the bat. Alls he has done so far in his career is blow through some shoddy college defenses. Whatever, who hasn't?

 

Apparently he wants No #1 pick money even though he was taken 2nd. Great Reggie.... thats the spirit. No reason to get in camp and actually play the game, just sit on your azz and force the Saints to blow their whole payroll on you.

 

This dude is a high-priced Dave Meggett.... he'll return kicks and that's about it. Too small, too geared towards college ball where the defenses part like the red sea and just let you run through un-touched.

 

Ah well.... glad to see the current financial situation that the Players Union loves so much is working so well.... right?

 

 

Sounds like a lot of hate to me.

 

 

and get shutdown in the most hyped up game he played in, while getting completely overshadowed by the guy he beat for the heisman, who is currently negotiating and showing no sign of wanting to holdout.

 

I can't believe the Saints took Reggie. They should have known he would do something like this, his last name is Bush!

 

For Reggie's standards... I guess you could say he got shut down. For any normal good football player... 177 yards from scrimmage and a TD isn't exactly getting shut down. Admittedly the fumble was a terrible decision.

 

I agree with many o the posters who say that this is a standard practice with rookies. That being said.. getting into camp too late is extremely detrimental.

 

Since we are on the subject. I really think people have misconception of how Reggie will be utilized this year... and even possibly his career. He may never be a workhorse of a back. What he will be is a true slash... RB/WR. Anyone who has seen Reggie cut on a dime knows he has the ability to run routes. He has great hands and catches the ball away from his body. Throw in decent size (6'0"), great strength (Benched 225lb 24 times) and of course top end speed (4.33) IMHO he has all of the tools to be hall of fame WR, much less an RB. But that all being said... none of that compares to his special abilities in open space. He'll run a few between the tackles to keep defenses honest this year. If has success there, he will be one of the great ones. Time will tell in that regard. But otherwise, he will be very effective... utilized on the outside and in the passing game. I just don't see how this isn't anything but a foregone conclusion.

[TerrySilver 0]

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

it's not like it's a week before the season starts and he's the only one left holding out. ALL first rd'ers basically hold out every year. It's part of seeing what everyone else signs for, and how their deals are structured. Plus this year is a whole additional bag-of-worms due to the CBA and what not...

Out of the 32 1st rd'ers, exactly how many are signed as of today???

 

so don't single out Bush (or any of the other ones) until everyone else is signed...

 

 

was about to post the same thing. right now the only person who has signed has been mario williams, so why give bush so much flack for holding out?

[DaveJ 0]

I remember a thread about a week before the draft where I brought up a number of things that would play into the Texans decision on taking him or not. This was shortly after the whole house thing broke and I said then that character and concerns about his future negotiations would play a BIG factor in his getting taken first. If I recall correctly, I said that he had not displayed any ego or issues of that sort up to that time that were public, but that the question would be addressed by ownership and a risk vs reward would be done. The fact Mario was willing to sign was the primary reason he was taken..... plain and simple.

 

Now many 1st rounders have contract issues all the way up to training camp and several end up going through training camp, such as Benson last year. At this point I think its too early to blast Bush on things... but as camp approaches, it will become clear what the real story is. If camp starts and he is not signed, you are looking at the beginning stages of a Benson type situation. In Bush's position I would want to get as much as I could too... but at some point you have to ask yourself, do I take a little less now for more later?? He already lost a great deal by the perception of his signability... he will not get #1 money and shouldn't... question now is, does he expect that kind of money going forward. If he continues to hold out, this could get ugly.

 

Its still too early to jump on his case about this... but it does bear watching. In the end though, a deal will get done so dynasty drafting should not change. Redraft though could be impacted depending on when he does get into camp.

[Eriadoc 4]

Since we are on the subject. I really think people have misconception of how Reggie will be utilized this year... and even possibly his career. He may never be a workhorse of a back. What he will be is a true slash... RB/WR.

 

I agree. I have stated many times that he'll be a lot closer to Eric Metcalf than he will a true RB. Metcalf was pretty good, so that's no knock on Bush. I just never thought he was worth a #1 pick in the draft. That type of skillset doesn't translate into the same production in the NFL, IMO. We'll see.

[traders2001 0]

This is a MAJOR part of why the Texans passed on him... even though they won't admit it...

 

 

 

Deuce, Deuce , Deuce.......................

[esoitl 0]

Without understanding whether his demands are excessive or not, I don't have a problem with him holding out until the contract gets done. Almost every other high pick is doing the same. Just read an article where Ferguson and Mangold are doing it.

this is a little different

they are missing an orientation of which ONLY undrafted players attended cause they haven't signed any draftees yet

 

they have signed only 2 rookies so far and haven't started negotiating with either Mangold or Ferguson yet

camp for the Jets doesn't start just yet, not really sure whats taking things so long but.....

[t.j 35]

I honestly think that the Texans had Mario Williams and Reggie Bush rated a damn close #1/#2 guy.

 

You're crazy.

 

C'mon. quit b!tching. As of Tuesday morning i believe the only 1st rd'er to sign was the same guy who was signed signed BEFORE the draft - Mario Williams.

it's not like it's a week before the season starts and he's the only one left holding out. ALL first rd'ers basically hold out every year. It's part of seeing what everyone else signs for, and how their deals are structured. Plus this year is a whole additional bag-of-worms due to the CBA and what not...

Out of the 32 1st rd'ers, exactly how many are signed as of today???

 

so don't single out Bush (or any of the other ones) until everyone else is signed...

 

Well said. Didn't the Titans just start negotiations with Vince?

[Raider 84 29]

Good news for all McAllister owners.

[Eriadoc 4]

You're crazy.

 

There were at least six teams that had Mario rated as the top player available, so I'm in good company.

[J-Money 4]

I don't see how guys can demand more money than the guys picked before them The team picking #1 didn't feel like he could help their team as much a williams (I know...crazy) so he thinks he should be paid more because he thinks he's better? Didn't Deangelo Williams or Maroney want to go head to head against Bush at the combine but Bush sat out cuz he didn't have to prove anything? Does that mean williams or maroney can demand more money than Bush cuz he thinks he's better?

[famousb 11]

I don't see how guys can demand more money than the guys picked before them The team picking #1 didn't feel like he could help their team as much a williams (I know...crazy) so he thinks he should be paid more because he thinks he's better?

 

i think Bush can ask for more money than Williams for the simple fact that RBs, in general, have fatter contracts than DEs regardless if they were #1 overall or not... that's a pretty good bargaining chip on his side...

[mitch moore 0]

As the Deuce owner in my dynasty league, I hope that he holds out at least til the rookie draft, late August, so that he may fall to me at #3(unlikely).

At least, if he does hold out that long, I'll get more use out of Deuce early in the season(til he gets injured again).

 

On another note,

#3 pick in Dynasty league, Addai, Lendell, Moroney, Leinart, Deangelo???

Nevermind all will be revealed(I hope) as the season approaches.

[J-Money 4]

i think Bush can ask for more money than Williams for the simple fact that RBs, in general, have fatter contracts than DEs regardless if they were #1 overall or not... that's a pretty good bargaining chip on his side...

 

 

While i agree to an extent, off the top of my head I believe guys like Abraham, Strahan, Peppers make more than their RB counter parts. Since i don't have the figures I would guess that Jason Taylor and Javon Kearse maybe do too. I bet even Bryant Young makes more than gore or barlow There may be more. The league has a glut of rb's right now and there are only a handful of dominant Defensive Linemen. How do we know reggie bush won't be the next Curtis Enis or lawrence phillips vs the Barry Sanders people think he'll be? Mario williams has just as much a chance to bust as any other pick, but he was the number 1 pick and should be paid the most. I guess I just agree with those that think the NFL should slot the rookie contracts like the NBA.

[famousb 11]

As the Deuce owner in my dynasty league, I hope that he holds out at least til the rookie draft, late August, so that he may fall to me at #3(unlikely).

At least, if he does hold out that long, I'll get more use out of Deuce early in the season(til he gets injured again).

 

On another note,

#3 pick in Dynasty league, Addai, Lendell, Moroney, Leinart, Deangelo???

Nevermind all will be revealed(I hope) as the season approaches.

 

is this the same Mitch Moore that has the #4 overrall pick in our NAFFL league? boy, #3 pick and #4 picks - you're doing great buddy!!!

[esoitl 0]

i think Bush can ask for more money than Williams for the simple fact that RBs, in general, have fatter contracts than DEs regardless if they were #1 overall or not... that's a pretty good bargaining chip on his side...

if you look at rookie contratcs hoever they normally will decrease as they go down

in 01 Courtney Brown had the highest contract and then they went down from there

 

 

with only a few exceptions, that pretty much follows suit throughout

[Freak Jones 0]

Year in and year out guys holdout. And year in and year out those same guys get hurt. It might be fate, bad luck, or a result of not being in the right condition. Kellen Winslow, Ben Watson, Cedric Benson, those are just a few I can think of..

 

My point is? If Reggie Bush hold's out he's going to come back and try to do too much and end up getting injured.

 

Don't forget Ladainian. Oh wait.....never mind, that turned out alright.

 

Cut the guy a little slack. It's just part of negotiating his deal. It's not even August 1st. It's not like he's going to sit out the season. He only has so much leverage. Javon Walker chose not to holdout last year and Green Bay sure did a great job of rewarding him didn't they? At least he had the luxury of having the monster year in his back pocket when it came to the injury last year so someone was willing to reward him.

 

If Bush were to come in to camp in good faith, have the Saints dink around on his contract, and suffer a major injury, do you think they would be willing to negotiate higher than their original offer? Kind of doubtful. If they could pull it off, they'd probably lower it.

[DaveJ 0]

Don't forget Ladainian. Oh wait.....never mind, that turned out alright.

 

Cut the guy a little slack. It's just part of negotiating his deal. It's not even August 1st. It's not like he's going to sit out the season. He only has so much leverage. Javon Walker chose not to holdout last year and Green Bay sure did a great job of rewarding him didn't they? At least he had the luxury of having the monster year in his back pocket when it came to the injury last year so someone was willing to reward him.

 

If Bush were to come in to camp in good faith, have the Saints dink around on his contract, and suffer a major injury, do you think they would be willing to negotiate higher than their original offer? Kind of doubtful. If they could pull it off, they'd probably lower it.

 

Let's not get carried away with this since no one knows the numbers as of yet.... but lets look at Benson from last year. He held out... well into camp and it hurt him on the field making his 1st year valued at well under what he was getting paid. So lets say Bush holds out and doesn't play, thus hurting the team.. will he compensate them for that??? Hmm no.

 

Also your arguement with Walker, while similar, is so different it begs to be pointed out. Walker was not drafted #2 in the draft so he had a very small contract..... He ALSO had a hellva performance in one season PRIOR to demanding large cash.... Bush was the second pick, argueably should have been #1... but he has NO experience, has proven NOTHING in the NFL as of yet.

 

When it is all said and done, I think any issues Bush and NO have will come down to a Mill or two of signing bonus vs Guarentee years... No matter WHAT happens to Bush, he should be set for life once he signs. That is unless he gets a wacky g/f who burns his mansion down, gets busted for trafficing narcotics or otherwise makes bad 'investments' and blows his cash on bling.

[Ray_T 588]

well, lately there have been a lot of high draft picks that have held out and then lost their job.

 

You would think these idiots would learn their lesson.

 

Benson held out last year and lost his starting job to Thomas Jones.

The year before, Phil Rivers held out, and lost his starting job to Drew Brees.

 

Both players hindered their development and hurt their careers by holding out.

 

not to be outdone, Thomas jones looked like he wanted to give Benson a chance to take his starting job back by holding out himself.

 

This guy can only hurt himself by doing this. New Orleans still has Deuce McAllister, and you can bet he will play his heart out to keep his job.

 

If I was their GM I'd let him sit. McAllister has another few good years. and they arent losing a whole lot by teaching him a lesson.

 

This idiot should be getting his butt into the lineup to try to knock Deuce out of the starting role. Instead... hes just giving the job away.

[DaveJ 0]

If I was their GM I'd let him sit. McAllister has another few good years. and they arent losing a whole lot by teaching him a lesson.

 

This idiot should be getting his butt into the lineup to try to knock Deuce out of the starting role. Instead... hes just giving the job away.

 

While I agree with you in principal..... that is why you're not a GM Its all about making money and winning games. It comes down to are they better off with or without Bush on the field.. Regardless of what his pundits and critics say, I think they are a better team with him.

 

That said.. I would JUST LOVE to see an owner say f you and let a guy sit and wilt on the vine.

 

It won't happen though, they need him to put butts in the seats, create some buzz and you can bet the NFLPA wouldn't let it happen.

[Freak Jones 0]

Let's not get carried away with this since no one knows the numbers as of yet.... but lets look at Benson from last year. He held out... well into camp and it hurt him on the field making his 1st year valued at well under what he was getting paid. So lets say Bush holds out and doesn't play, thus hurting the team.. will he compensate them for that??? Hmm no.

 

Also your arguement with Walker, while similar, is so different it begs to be pointed out. Walker was not drafted #2 in the draft so he had a very small contract..... He ALSO had a hellva performance in one season PRIOR to demanding large cash.... Bush was the second pick, argueably should have been #1... but he has NO experience, has proven NOTHING in the NFL as of yet.

 

When it is all said and done, I think any issues Bush and NO have will come down to a Mill or two of signing bonus vs Guarentee years... No matter WHAT happens to Bush, he should be set for life once he signs. That is unless he gets a wacky g/f who burns his mansion down, gets busted for trafficing narcotics or otherwise makes bad 'investments' and blows his cash on bling.

 

I hear what you're saying. He's going to make an obscene amount of money by signing any deal he can. I'm saying this is just how contracts get negotiated. That's just the nature of pro-sports isn't it? But this happens every year with a bunch of guys. If the Saints end up waiting until mid-September to pony up an extra $1-$2 million, it's on them. As a player, Reggie has to look out for himself, because the team isn't going to.

 

That was actually more where I was going with Javon Walker. You're right, he'd already proven something. That case was even more sad. He doesn't hold-out. Comes to camp in good faith. The Packers do nothing about extending his contract and he subsequently blows out his knee at the start of the season. Still the Packers do nothing to show any kind of loyalty to the guy and his future. Luckily for him, another team that had no ties or loyalty to him knew what value he had and traded for him. Not only did they trade for him, but they rewarded him with a new contract.

 

Unless Reggie sits out well into the season, I just don't think this affects him that much. I watched Deuce before he got hurt last year. He was fat and slow. Now he's coming off a major knee injury and already had his contract redone before the injury. He's just not going to be physically able, let alone be motivated to be, the Thomas Jones of 2006. Rookie running backs have a much more reasonable opportunity to step in and have value with minimal training camp reps.

[DaveJ 0]

I hear what you're saying. He's going to make an obscene amount of money by signing any deal he can. I'm saying this is just how contracts get negotiated. That's just the nature of pro-sports isn't it? But this happens every year with a bunch of guys. If the Saints end up waiting until mid-September to pony up an extra $1-$2 million, it's on them. As a player, Reggie has to look out for himself, because the team isn't going to.

 

That was actually more where I was going with Javon Walker. You're right, he'd already proven something. That case was even more sad. He doesn't hold-out. Comes to camp in good faith. The Packers do nothing about extending his contract and he subsequently blows out his knee at the start of the season. Still the Packers do nothing to show any kind of loyalty to the guy and his future. Luckily for him, another team that had no ties or loyalty to him knew what value he had and traded for him. Not only did they trade for him, but they rewarded him with a new contract.

 

Unless Reggie sits out well into the season, I just don't think this affects him that much. I watched Deuce before he got hurt last year. He was fat and slow. Now he's coming off a major knee injury and already had his contract redone before the injury. He's just not going to be physically able, let alone be motivated to be, the Thomas Jones of 2006. Rookie running backs have a much more reasonable opportunity to step in and have value with minimal training camp reps.

 

Yeah the Walker thing was a classic case of..OPPS.. on both sides. If he hadn't held out and handled himself that way, who's to say it wouldn't have worked out injury or no. As it turned out, if he had not burned that bridge, he would have been in an even better position to get some cash. They paid Driver and he isn't nearly as talented, but he did the right thing. Showed up, put himself in position to make plays and played hard and kept his mouth shut. If Walker had done that, he would have gotten paid.... Walker got bad advice from his agent (which is a whole other topic on Rosenhaus).

 

I think Deuce will be motivated.. but agree that it may be a tough year for him. Even if the heart is in it, if the body doesn't respond it will be a long year.

 

Still too early to determine what's going on with Bush.. could be classis negotiation stuff.. or the beginnings of a big whine and cheese fest.

[Freak Jones 0]

Yeah the Walker thing was a classic case of..OPPS.. on both sides. If he hadn't held out and handled himself that way, who's to say it wouldn't have worked out injury or no. As it turned out, if he had not burned that bridge, he would have been in an even better position to get some cash. They paid Driver and he isn't nearly as talented, but he did the right thing. Showed up, put himself in position to make plays and played hard and kept his mouth shut. If Walker had done that, he would have gotten paid.... Walker got bad advice from his agent (which is a whole other topic on Rosenhaus).

 

I think Deuce will be motivated.. but agree that it may be a tough year for him. Even if the heart is in it, if the body doesn't respond it will be a long year.

 

Still too early to determine what's going on with Bush.. could be classis negotiation stuff.. or the beginnings of a big whine and cheese fest.

 

Yep, the one thing Javon should have done was kept his and his agent's mouth shut. However, they only talked about holding out. He may have missed some mini-camp stuff, but he did show up on time for camp last year.

[Ravens 03 0]

Hope holds out forever, costs his a starting spot and millions in money down the road.

[DaveJ 0]

Some guy on ESPN Radio tonight talking about him saying he is willing to sit the season.... then there was a long discussion on if he would actually be the top pick next year with Peterson coming out and a host of others.

 

I still believe its just posturing at this point... but if it goes on too long it could get serious.