akaoni 0 Posted August 16, 2006 I was reading Jason Lauren's Getting Started: Quaterbacks article this morning and I noticed that he had Mike Vick listed as an Overrated QB. OverratedMichael Vick, Atlanta: If your league awards points for SportsCenter highlights, then Vick is your guy. Every year it seems fantasy owners wait for a breakout year from Vick and get disappointed. This year will be no different. He’s never thrown for 3,000 yards or 20 TDs, and his running prowess doesn’t make up for his throwing inconsistency to make him an elite fantasy quarterback. While I've never been high on Vick, I wonder if this isn't the year that he can be gotten cheap for a late round pick. I haven't seen anyone hyping him here on the FFToday board, or elsewhere. With a QB class that is deep in the middle, Vick could be a decent back up, with some upside potential. I've never owned him because someone always is thinking that this is the year that he busts out and puts up big rushing and passing numbers, but maybe this is the year I might take a chance on him. He's not going until the 9th according to Antsports, and he could be an ok value pick. Any opinions? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffdomino 0 Posted August 16, 2006 Anyone that has had Vick on his fanatasy team before knows that Vick is not an option. ...unless you happen to know which of the two days on his schedule he blows up of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMaximus12 0 Posted August 16, 2006 GREAT point, Domino. the problem with VIck is, he'll never be a good QB. he is Kordell Stewart, with faster moves. Vick has had excuse after excuse...learning a new offense, new coach, no WR"s...the litany of excuses is almost as long as Floyd Landis's. but it comes down to him just not being a great QB. he will never develop into that either, and Atlanta fans will have to be happy with his 2 annual "Blow up" games, and no big time wins...because he is not a good enough QB to carry his team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 541 Posted August 16, 2006 He's not even the best quarterback on his team. The fans know it, the team's management knows it, and Vick knows it. Problem is, he's too highly paid to admit their mistake and relegate him to second string. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted August 16, 2006 Vick being overrated is old news. The interesting thing about this article is that he calls Vick overrated and Jake Delhomme underrated and then promptly rates Vick higher than Delhomme in his overrall rankings. Delhomme has thrown 53 TDs the last two seasons. The article kinda lost some merit after reading that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brad GLuckman 519 Posted August 16, 2006 I'm surprised we haven't had anyone jump all over this with the whole "But he wins games argument"... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Shepherd 10 Posted August 16, 2006 Anyone that has had Vick on his fanatasy team before knows that Vick is not an option. ...unless you happen to know which of the two days on his schedule he blows up of course. Pretty much sums Vick up. Delhomme is good value this year (again). Let some other goof take Vick and all his intangibles. Poor Michael Jenkins - he's being wasted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr.shitty 0 Posted August 16, 2006 He's not even the best quarterback on his team. bingo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rye & Leaf 0 Posted August 16, 2006 Im not really a vick fan but wasn't he a top 12 qb last year in most fantasy leagues? in a 12 man league, he should have been a starter on someone's team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akaoni 0 Posted August 16, 2006 GREAT point, Domino. the problem with VIck is, he'll never be a good QB. he is Kordell Stewart, with faster moves. Vick has had excuse after excuse...learning a new offense, new coach, no WR"s...the litany of excuses is almost as long as Floyd Landis's. but it comes down to him just not being a great QB. he will never develop into that either, and Atlanta fans will have to be happy with his 2 annual "Blow up" games, and no big time wins...because he is not a good enough QB to carry his team. I'm not making the point that he's a great QB, quite the contrary, Vick has dissapointed from both an real-world and fantasy perspective. That said, looking over last year's scoring in my primary league. He was rated 12th, and seperated by only 2 points from Trent Green, who was the 11th QB scoring QB in my league last year (my starting QB last year by the way). A closer look also reveals that he wasn't as boom or bust as everyone is suggesting. Here are the points according to my league's scoring system: Week Green Vick 1 17 1 2 22 21 3 5 3 4 17 28 5 21 4 6 18 21 7 26 21 8 -1 26 9 11 16 10 21 0/DNP 11 9 10 12 18 12 13 0/DNP 0/DNP 14 15 12 15 13 21 16 7 14 17 4 11 A quick look shows that Vick wasn't really that much more inconsistent than Green. He had 4 games scoring less than 10 points (including one game he missed). Otherwise, he was pretty consistent. Green for his part, had 5 games under 10 points, You might argue that Green had a down year, or that you don't like Green either. That's fine, but it doesn't speak to the points I've made here. If anything the above posts vindicate my position. So many people have soured on Vick that he might be had for cheap, and could serve as a decent backup. Now would I choose Vick over players like Delhomme or Bledsoe? Of course not. But to say that Vick has no value is shortsighted in my opinion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
famousb 11 Posted August 16, 2006 here's my latest skinny on Vick... he just went in ROUND 14 of one of my leagues - NO ONE wants him. Sure, he wins games for ATL, and sure he could easily end up in the top 12 QBs in fantasy football, but like said previously, who wants to guess which weeks to start him? And the guy that did draft him has Brady as his #1 -> so you know he's not worried about starting him either... Vick is great to watch from an entertainment perspective, and he puts people in the seats - which is great for ATL's bottom line (much like Iverson for the PHI 76ers), but he's just too inconsistent from a fantasy scoring perspective to want to deal with on a weekly basis. I'd rather have a QB who's a lock for 12-18 every week than one who will range from 4-44, but you don't know which it'll be even if you try to play matchups... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElvisMcCoy 0 Posted August 16, 2006 As an Atlanta fan I can say I am ready for Schaub. I've defended Vick every year since the leg injury. I'm tired of arguing about how electrifying he is and wish they'd move him out to the slot and let him do his thing out there. Throw him the ball and let him run. That is what Vick is good at and I believe he could be a top 10 WR if he could learn to run the routes. As a bye week fill in I would not mind having him behind Delhomme and I would pray to the FF gods that Carolina's bye week will be the week that Vick blows up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackYourNut 47 Posted August 16, 2006 He's not even the best quarterback on his team. The fans know it, the team's management knows it, and Vick knows it. Problem is, he's too highly paid to admit their mistake and relegate him to second string. Not an accurate statement at all. The bottom line is: He sells more apparel and tickets then Schaub ever could. You hear all these "football is a business" lines for a reason. It is a business and while they want to win a Superbowl, they also know how to operate in the black! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
famousb 11 Posted August 16, 2006 Not an accurate statement at all. The bottom line is: He sells more apparel and tickets then Schaub ever could. You hear all these "football is a business" lines for a reason. It is a business and while they want to win a Superbowl, they also know how to operate in the black! oh so true... Plus, could you ever imagine the tag line "The Matt Schaub Experience"? a Vick that only plays 8 gms a year is more valuable as a marketing tool than a Matt Schaub who takes a team to the SB... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Shepherd 10 Posted August 16, 2006 I'm not making the point that he's a great QB, quite the contrary, Vick has dissapointed from both an real-world and fantasy perspective. That said, looking over last year's scoring in my primary league. He was rated 12th, and seperated by only 2 points from Trent Green, who was the 11th QB scoring QB in my league last year (my starting QB last year by the way). A closer look also reveals that he wasn't as boom or bust as everyone is suggesting. Here are the points according to my league's scoring system: Week Green Vick 1 17 1 2 22 21 3 5 3 4 17 28 5 21 4 6 18 21 7 26 21 8 -1 26 9 11 16 10 21 0/DNP 11 9 10 12 18 12 13 0/DNP 0/DNP 14 15 12 15 13 21 16 7 14 17 4 11 A quick look shows that Vick wasn't really that much more inconsistent than Green. He had 4 games scoring less than 10 points (including one game he missed). Otherwise, he was pretty consistent. Green for his part, had 5 games under 10 points, You might argue that Green had a down year, or that you don't like Green either. That's fine. If anything the above posts vindicate my position. So many people have soured on Vick that he might be had for cheap, and could serve as a decent backup. Now would I choose Vick over players like Delhomme or Bledsoe? Of course not. But to say that Vick has no value is shortsighted in my opinion... These stats are indicative of Vick's performance every year, but not Green's. I'm too lazy to look up stats, but if you look, I'll go back to sleep and respond later - if I'm right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akaoni 0 Posted August 16, 2006 These stats are indicative of Vick's performance every year, but not Green's. I'm too lazy to look up stats, but if you look, I'll go back to sleep and respond later - if I'm right. If you read my post, you'd see that I stated as much. Green did have a down year (and I don't expect him to do any better this year, because of OL/Coaching), but if asked people who was the more inconsistent QB last year, I bet that 90% would answer: Vick, even though it was not the case. Vick has burned fantasy players for so many years that they are sick of him. My point is simply that he is no longer an overrated player. If he's going late in drafts as a backup, he could even be thought of as underrated, perhaps... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadLizard 73 Posted August 16, 2006 Vick might sell jerseys to crack dealers in the city..... but that doesnt make him the better QB. Face it, this guy is a media darling and the NFL and ESPN will do ANYTHING to make it appear that he is good. Anyone with a brain already knows.... hell they knew from the GET-GO that this dood is a BUM and cant play QB at the pro level. They hype up games with him in them and then jack each other off when he runs for 20 yards after a 15 minute scramble. When he plays its like Special Olympics football out there.... total mayhem. Then, he tries to throw a pass and its 10 yards too high or right into the ground. Oh well, I guess the Falcons are content with sucking and selling jerseys. Why not just quit the NFL altogether and get into the clothing business then... Vick SUCKS... and in other news there is snow in Antartica. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yostevo 0 Posted August 16, 2006 Not an accurate statement at all. The bottom line is: they also know how to operate in the black! Racist!! :reported: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JMaximus12 0 Posted August 16, 2006 If you read my post, you'd see that I stated as much. Green did have a down year (and I don't expect him to do any better this year, because of OL/Coaching), but if asked people who was the more inconsistent QB last year, I bet that 90% would answer: Vick, even though it was not the case. Vick has burned fantasy players for so many years that they are sick of him. My point is simply that he is no longer an overrated player. If he's going late in drafts as a backup, he could even be thought of as underrated, perhaps... i see your point now. there is not really any debate that from an NFL viewpoint, Vick is not a good QB....bad at best. from a fantasy perspective, Vick is inconsistent at best, but still scores points, occasionally. with all of that, i don't think he's UNDERRATED. i think he's right where he belongs- right around #20-25 on most boards. he's a 1-week fill in back up QB, which is where QB's in that range go. So could he be had cheap? yeah. i doubt he'll be the #1 guy on many/ if any rosters. he should go in about the 14th round or so, and be a servicable back up. overrated? by NFL standards, yes. fantasy standards, about right. that said, YES, this would be the eyar to pick him up for cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Shepherd 10 Posted August 16, 2006 If you read my post, you'd see that I stated as much. Green did have a down year (and I don't expect him to do any better this year, because of OL/Coaching), but if asked people who was the more inconsistent QB last year, I bet that 90% would answer: Vick, even though it was not the case. Vick has burned fantasy players for so many years that they are sick of him. My point is simply that he is no longer an overrated player. If he's going late in drafts as a backup, he could even be thought of as underrated, perhaps... True, I stand erected. But either way you don't look at it, Vick's not FF value. As soon as somebody starts talking about a player's intangibles - run like hell - he's fantasy dirt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlaHawker 24 Posted August 16, 2006 Anyone that has had Vick on his fanatasy team before knows that Vick is not an option. ...unless you happen to know which of the two days on his schedule he blows up of course. Definitely not an option but some numbnuts in my league will call his name in the 2nd round I'll do the dance!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Original Whizzinator 0 Posted August 16, 2006 I'm surprised we haven't had anyone jump all over this with the whole "But he wins games argument"... Here you go Brad. Yes, he is/was outrageously overhyped because of his athletic ability, and he clearly is not a good passer, but he's had 3 years of 15 starts. The Falcons are 28-19 over that span and he has over 3,000 rushing/passing yards in each of those years. In '03 when he only started 4 games due to injury, they go 5-11. Coincedence? He has not lived up to the impossible hype, but to say he sucks is simply not true. Maybe he's at the wrong position (6.9 career YPC), but I can't say he sucks as a player. I'm pretty sure teams like the Bills, Jets, Raiders, Bears, Lions, etc. wouldn't mind having him aboard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OrangeSoda 2 Posted August 16, 2006 Vick supporter here! It may just be my leagues scoring, but ilove having him.... hear me out... In my league we get 1 pt for every 20 yrds passing, 1 pt for every 10 yrds rushing, 6 pts for rushing TD , 4 pts for a Passing TD (no bonus pts at all) Pretty typical. Take a guy like brady who will generally throw for 230 yrds and TDs with maybe 5 yrds rushing per week. His total in our league would be 19 pts Vick on the other hand generally has 180 yrds passing 1td passing 55 yrds rushing and 1 td rushing = 24 pts Now there are times will vick will have more passing yrds and more than 1 td is just gravy... Brady on the otherhand, can get to 300 yrds passing and have 4 tds in game, but even if he has that vick is realitively close.... I would bet more than half of the owners on here have similar scoring for QBs.. Just the facts boys....you can't argue it! VICK IS NOT OVERRATED! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffdomino 0 Posted August 16, 2006 The QB spot is the one spot you really need to be consistent. Vick is far from this. I just think he is too dumb to learn the West Coast offense. Now if they tailor the play book to match Vick's intellect (run left, run right, pass to nearest barn door), Vick may be a better option. Right now, his ability to read defenses and to read his own offensive plays are seriously lacking.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted August 16, 2006 I'm not a Vick fan and have not drafted him in the past. However, with an ADP of 8.09, this is a year I'd take a chance on him if the opportunity presents itself. I have watched Vick's ADP plummet over the past few years... he was once a 4th rounder, then last year he was a 5th/6th rounder... and now this year he is an 8th/9th rounder. Overrated? he used to be. But in the 8th round this year, he's a minimal risk/lots-of-upside player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akaoni 0 Posted August 16, 2006 I'm not a Vick fan and have not drafted him in the past. However, with an ADP of 8.09, this is a year I'd take a chance on him if the opportunity presents itself. I have watched Vick's ADP plummet over the past few years... he was once a 4th rounder, then last year he was a 5th/6th rounder... and now this year he is an 8th/9th rounder. Overrated? he used to be. But in the 8th round this year, he's a minimal risk/lots-of-upside player. My point exactly, he's been a top 12 QB, so to get him late as a #2 doesn't seem like a bad move to me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boogaloobboy 0 Posted August 16, 2006 "Bad at best" qb's don't take their teams into Lambeau fielf and win in the playoffs. Vick is not a good fantasy QB, nor is he what the ESPN crew wants him to be, but he wins when healthy. Sadly health is not a given. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ffdomino 0 Posted August 16, 2006 My point exactly, he's been a top 12 QB, so to get him late as a #2 doesn't seem like a bad move to me... Unless you are in a 14+ team league or you start two QBs, why are you concerning yourself with a QB hitting 12th in the rankings? Bye week fill ins? He is way to risky for a fill-in candidate. Manning Bardy Hasselbeck Palmer McNabb The other Manning Green Warner Bledsoe Delhomne Kitna Plummer Culpepper Bulger McNair All better options if you ask me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremy 0 Posted August 16, 2006 I don't even want him as a backup. Invariably the one week you need him to fill a bye, he'll have one of his 120 yards, 0 TD games. Then he'll score 25 fantasy points the next week while you have him on the bench. You'll think "maybe I should give him another start." Back to 100 yards and no TDs. Too frustrating to have around. But then if you don't draft him, some goofball in the league will take him as his every week starter and he'll have one of his monster games the week he's playing me. I just wish he'd go away. "Bad at best" qb's don't take their teams into Lambeau fielf and win in the playoffs. Vick is not a good fantasy QB, nor is he what the ESPN crew wants him to be, but he wins when healthy. Sadly health is not a given. It's a tip that football is a team game. He's not the first bad QB to ever win a playoff game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 316 Posted August 16, 2006 you draft Vick for his potential and nothing more. most in this thread that hate the guy are citing his inconsistency... but within that inconsistency are some huge highs along with the huge lows. Now, in his 3rd year of WCOF, maybe Vick will "get it"? Will he have more highs? - If he Does, you may have an elite fantasy player on your hands... there's no doubting he has the tools, there's no doubting that he's shown flashes of it and put up crazy stats from time to time. - If he DOESN'T , you've only wasted and 8th round pick on him so it's not a big loss. it's about potential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zhinz 0 Posted August 16, 2006 Vick is not a good real life QB, no doubt. However, that doesn't mean he can't be a servicable fantasy football QB (like Aaron Brooks in his prime). Case in point: The FFToday projections have him 12th overall among QBs, and his passing numbers suck. But nearly 700 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs make up for that. ADP has him about right, as the 13th overall QB. So I would say he's rated just right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Bastard 157 Posted August 16, 2006 Grab as much RB & WR as you can and wait for Vick & Warner in rounds 8-12. Thank the Skinny man later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
