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sabtoker

League making me drop a RB.....

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Wow, what a bunch of unscrupulous cheaters we have among us. You'd all be kicked out of my league at the end of the year for crap like that. Finding loopholes and exloiting them is still cheating IMO. You are violating the spirit of the rules.

 

:ninja: Not only kicked out but would inherit a blanket party of soap in a sock.

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Devils advocate: Why does the comish allow people to pick up more than 4 RBs if he is so opposed to RB hording? Set up the site to limit the number of RBs you can have on your team. Legal rosters has to do with game time.

Right, so because the site allows you it's ok to cheat?

 

Spikes don't come up when running a red light, so I guess it's ok to do that everyday too.

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Devils advocate: Why does the comish allow people to pick up more than 4 RBs if he is so opposed to RB hording? Set up the site to limit the number of RBs you can have on your team. Legal rosters has to do with game time.

 

Wrong. Hording players throughout the week can be used as a ploy to illegally screw other managers from getting needed players. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

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Devils advocate: Why does the comish allow people to pick up more than 4 RBs if he is so opposed to RB hording? Set up the site to limit the number of RBs you can have on your team. Legal rosters has to do with game time.

 

This is probably a question of functionality, and what the system allows you to limit. Or it was left unguarded so that you could first pick a player up before dropping another. If the functionality is there, it would probably be a good idea to use it. However, I suspect that on a lot of cheaper/free sites, that is not necessarily an option.

 

Regarding legal rosters . . . you're wrong. In your league, apparently, that's what it has to do with. That is not a hard and fast rule, though, as evidenced by several of the posts in this thread.

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Being a commish, i'd manually drop that player from your roster and return him to the palyer pool while putting your 'Healthy" player back off IR. Let the owner's vote on it, but you wouldn't get your guy until they overturned me. How's that? To me, you are PURPOSELY violating the spirit of the rules and fair play to gain an advantage (more RBs). As a commish, it's my job to make sure that isn't allowed.

 

In my leagues IR is clearly defined. Unless a guy is listed as OUT due to an injury, you cannot put them on IR. Additionally, once a player plays in a game after being out, you have until 12:00pm that following Tuesday to drop a player and take him off IR.

 

It amazes me how people try to cheat and then justify it.

 

Whoa there big fella, climb down from your soapbox for a second and look at my statement "I'm considering...", I didn't say I was doing it. Let's use an ambiguous situation, say you're a Clinton Portis or Jamal Lewis owner. Are they injured? Yes. Is there a question as to whether they will play week 1? Yes. Is it likely that they miss that game? Maybe. Under your interpretation of the rules, unless they're deemed "OUT" for week one, their owner can't pick up a possible replacement for him. So in the interest of "fairness" you're handicapping someone. Now, I will admit that the intent and execution of these two scenerios is different. There is no way appease everyone and no way to ensure that everything is fair...life doesn't work that way.

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Wrong. Hordig players throughout the week can be used as a ploy to illegally screw other managers from getting needed players. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

 

Exactly.. so if you are a smart owner, and the system is set p to keep other teams from gaining a player that can help them beat you its a great strategy to draft that player so they cant. If your league doesnt want people to be able to use that strategy then you set roster limits. And when setting those roster limits you adjust your website to enforce those limits or you clearly word in the rules what happens if people violate those rules. Neither of these was done in this league from what I am reading

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Exactly.. so if you are a smart owner, and the system is set p to keep other teams from gaining a player that can help them beat you its a great strategy to draft that player so they cant. If your league doesnt want people to be able to use that strategy then you set roster limits. And when setting those roster limits you adjust your website to enforce those limits or you clearly word in the rules what happens if people violate those rules. Neither of these was done in this league from what I am reading

 

:blink:

 

You really don't have a concept of morality, do you?

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I guess not.. I have a concept of winning. This is a competition, its not about friends, its about showing me the money. If you don’t want me hording your players, then make damn sure the rules are in place to keep me from doing it.

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Whoa there big fella, climb down from your soapbox for a second and look at my statement "I'm considering...", I didn't say I was doing it. Let's use an ambiguous situation, say you're a Clinton Portis or Jamal Lewis owner. Are they injured? Yes. Is there a question as to whether they will play week 1? Yes. Is it likely that they miss that game? Maybe. Under your interpretation of the rules, unless they're deemed "OUT" for week one, their owner can't pick up a possible replacement for him. So in the interest of "fairness" you're handicapping someone. Now, I will admit that the intent and execution of these two scenerios is different. There is no way appease everyone and no way to ensure that everything is fair...life doesn't work that way.

 

Gosh, it sures sounds like you just said that it's okay to cheat so long as you don't get caught.

 

 

 

Lack of scruples aside, he got caught.

 

I guess not.. I have a concept of winning. This is a compatetion, its not about friends, its about showing me the money. If you dont want me hording your players, then make damn sure the rules are in place to keep me from doing it.

 

The rules are in place. He chose to ignore them, or deliberately sneak around them. What you're doing is rationalizing, and yostevo's comment about the red light is perfect for you . .. if you're able to read the things that offend you.

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DROP BROWN. Unless he miraculously gets traded to a team where he is the clear cut #1, his value in Tenn is minimal. He currently got demoted to backup, but even if he regains the top spot, he will definitely lose carries to Henry and White. His upside is minimal.

 

MBIII has limited value right now, but his upside is huge. IF JJ gets hurt (and he always seems to), MBarber would immediately become a top #2 back in FFB. He is a solid receiver and would be able to put up great #s in that offense. I would hold him for now.

great advice.. I agree completely. Brown just sucks, honestly.

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:blink:

 

You really don't have a concept of morality, do you?

 

Good god, so every WR in the league that traps a pass against the ground but acts like he caught it is immoral. Every back who's knee hits the ground should immediately stop running and say "I'm down, I'm down"? I think you're taking a "liberal interpretation of the rules" a bit seriously there Reverend Faldwell. I'm recommending you change your FFToday user name to "RocksandGlassHouses"...

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Whoa there big fella, climb down from your soapbox for a second and look at my statement "I'm considering...", I didn't say I was doing it. Let's use an ambiguous situation, say you're a Clinton Portis or Jamal Lewis owner. Are they injured? Yes. Is there a question as to whether they will play week 1? Yes. Is it likely that they miss that game? Maybe. Under your interpretation of the rules, unless they're deemed "OUT" for week one, their owner can't pick up a possible replacement for him. So in the interest of "fairness" you're handicapping someone. Now, I will admit that the intent and execution of these two scenerios is different. There is no way appease everyone and no way to ensure that everything is fair...life doesn't work that way.

It's not my interpretation, it's my rule. I'm the commish and that's how it's worded because some shady owner tried to use IR as an extra roster spot one year, kind of like you are 'considering' doing.

 

My point still stands, if you tried to use IR for a player who isn't even listed on the injury report, he'd be back on your roster faster than you could say "cheater" and the guy you picked up would be back in the player pool.

 

HTH!

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Lundy was the RB he illegally picked up so that's why as his commish I'd release that player as if it never happened in the first place because it really shouldn't have.

 

I think this is really the best solution. You should thank your Commish for giving you until 5:00 to fix your cheating instead of just reversing your cheating trx.

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Good god, so every WR in the league that traps a pass against the ground but acts like he caught it is immoral. Every back who's knee hits the ground should immediately stop running and say "I'm down, I'm down"? I think you're taking a "liberal interpretation of the rules" a bit seriously there Reverend Faldwell. I'm recommending you change your FFToday user name to "RocksandGlassHouses"...

Does that same WR who "knowingly" traps a pass and then instant replay overturns the call go and whine about it after the game and say the refs are stupid and micromanaging the game?

 

Just checking. :blink:

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So the answer to all these rule problems for all your commissioners reading this is not more rules. It’s less. If you don’t want people to horde RBs don’t set position limits, lower your roster size. If someone wants to have 8 RBs on their team and only 2 WR and 1 QB, well that will hurt him down the road. If you don’t have position limits and allow players to manage their own teams with smaller rosters people will be forced to make strategy decisions based on that. If you don’t want people to miss-use the IR. Don’t have one. Make people choose to either suck up a roster spot with that player or release him to free agency.

 

The more rules you have the more rules people can and will break. Keep it simple. Designate the 8-10 starting positions and allow your managers to manage what is in their 6-8 bench players. You all are making it too hard on yourselves.

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So the answer to all these rule problems for all your commissioners reading this is not more rules. It’s less. If you don’t want people to horde RBs don’t set position limits, lower your roster size. If someone wants to have 8 RBs on their team and only 2 WR and 1 QB, well that will hurt him down the road. If you don’t have position limits and allow players to manage their own teams with smaller rosters people will be forced to make strategy decisions based on that. If you don’t want people to miss-use the IR. Don’t have one. Make people choose to either suck up a roster spot with that player or release him to free agency.

 

The more rules you have the more rules people can and will break. Keep it simple. Designate the 8-10 starting positions and allow your managers to manage what is in their 6-8 bench players. You all are making it too hard on yourselves.

Or, don't play with cheaters, that seems to work for me? :bandana:

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Does that same WR who "knowingly" traps a pass and then instant replay overturns the call go and whine about it after the game and say the refs are stupid and micromanaging the game?

 

Just checking. :bandana:

 

That's not the point, the point was that the player is attemting, by your definition of it, to do something immoral by gaining an advantage due to an oversite, or by lack of clarification of the rules. Now, having said all this, if I were a fellow owner in this league, I would have complained about this roster move. I agree that if the poster was going to pick up a back and he was already at the roster limit on them, that he would need to drop one first. I also agree that if a roster limit was in place, it should not have allowed him to pick one up without dropping one first. I believe that there is a difference "replacing an injured player" and "hoarding" players, which this person appears to have been doing. But again, don't start throwing those stones until you can honestly say you follow every rule, obey every law and always make the right decision.

 

Good topic by the way.

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I am a Commish and will voice the minority opinion here. I assume the whole league voted on your rules when the league was set up. You knowingly and intentionally violated the rules.

 

If you don't like this or any rule, suggest changes and let the league vote on it. Or find a new league.

 

Have to agree. If the rules don't allow more than 4 RB than you have to comply. I am surprised that CBS doesn't have roster limit controls in the software. The site we use won't allow you to pick up more than the allowable number per position.

 

And yes, in my leagues (3) as commish I have roster limits. It is very liberal, 4 times the number of starter per position (would allow 8 RBs) but there is still a limit. I think that is only fair.

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Or, don't play with cheaters, that seems to work for me? :P

 

Get a grip, everybody cheats, lies or worse. Life is about making decisions and living with consequences. We live, we learn and hopefully improve as people as we do. By your reasoning, every waiver move ever made would ONLY be done to replace a hurt player on that persons roster and every trade would be completely equal.

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As a 13 year vet of having the commissioner duties of my league, let me say this. Every one of those years I've had to adjust, fine tune or change rules in order to continue to "full proof" my league rulebook. Unimaginable situations occur like clockwork each year and it has to be addressed annually. To the credit of my upstanding owners of the league, I've never had people trying exploit the rules for their own personal gain. They are quality guys who would rather win in an ethical manner than have to resort to cheating to help their sorry franchise succeed.

 

Some of you need to look in the mirror. A lot of hard work goes into being a commish and most of you will never have a clue. Appreciate the fact, and work with the commish and not against him or the league.

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Wow, what a bunch of unscrupulous cheaters we have among us. You'd all be kicked out of my league at the end of the year for crap like that. Finding loopholes and exloiting them is still cheating IMO. You are violating the spirit of the rules.

 

exactly. The fact that in the original post, the guy said he's not going to fight it, proves that he knows its a bullshit move. We have very strict roster rules in my league- a team MUST carry exactly: 2qbs, 4rbs, 4wrs, 2te, 2kickers, 2def. We also have 2 IR spots, however the person you put on IR must actually be injured. Its not just a free roster spot.

 

Last year I had Julius, and the week he went down, the guy I was going to play next, picked up Marion Barber and Tyson Thompson off waivers by putting his 2 backups (who were completely healthy) on IR. I bitched and screamed, but it was a loophole in the way the rule was written, which basically didn't take into account loser cockbreath's that can't win with footbal knowledge and must rely on twisting the rules. We took a vote, I won, the Commish immediatly dropped the two Cowboys off his team. Now that rule is in effect and everyone is clear on it. Honestly, these types of things come up every year where the rule in question might be too broad. It takes an incident like this to tighten the rule up.

 

If it isn't wriiten down or understood by the whole league that you must have a legal roster at all times, you can't really fault the guy for being a douche. That being said we have RT sports set up so you simply cannot carry a roster unless it covers exactly what is required at each position, no more no less.

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That's not the point, the point was that the player is attemting, by your definition of it, to do something immoral by gaining an advantage due to an oversite, or by lack of clarification of the rules. Now, having said all this, if I were a fellow owner in this league, I would have complained about this roster move. I agree that if the poster was going to pick up a back and he was already at the roster limit on them, that he would need to drop one first. I also agree that if a roster limit was in place, it should not have allowed him to pick one up without dropping one first. I believe that there is a difference "replacing an injured player" and "hoarding" players, which this person appears to have been doing. But again, don't start throwing those stones until you can honestly say you follow every rule, obey every law and always make the right decision.

 

Good topic by the way.

I'm a commish, if I don't follow the rules in my league who will? So yeah, I can honestly say in FF I follow every rule.

 

Also that is the point, this thread was a guy admitting he broke a rule but complaining about the commish enforcing it, and then a slew of other people backing him.

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I recall beign in one league where some guy so pissed off he dropped his entire team. Funny, yes, but even more funny was how people gobbled up all his players off the WW....as if they would be able to keep them :cheers:

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Get a grip, everybody cheats, lies or worse. Life is about making decisions and living with consequences. We live, we learn and hopefully improve as people as we do. By your reasoning, every waiver move ever made would ONLY be done to replace a hurt player on that persons roster and every trade would be completely equal.
I never said all moves are done to replace injured players and all trades are fair. You can be cut throat and all about winning while not cheating. I've made roster moves to block other owners from getting a specific guy, I try to improve my team with every trade. Usually my league mates are smart enough to do the same and most trades are fair. I certianly won't collude with another owner, and won't tollerate it in my league either.

 

You obviously like to play fast and loose with the rules. I'm not perfect, and I HATE to lose, but when I compete against friends for money, I also don't cheat. HTH!

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This is an interesting quandry...because I'm considering doing something similar when waivers run in our league. I was going to put somebody healthy on IR (since oddly I have nobody injured, not even a turf toe when i need it!!!) and pick up Lundy if I can get him, and maybe Henry too. I just want to beat the DD owner to the punch and give myself trade value to get DeAngelo Williams off him (since I've got Foster). What i'm curious about is this...has no one in your league ever had an "illegal roster" previously leading up to a game time? Was that person told to fix their roster by End of Day or forfeit their game that weekend? My feeling is that you're only in violation of the rule if your roster looks like that on the day of the first game. He sounds like a bitter person who didn't get his waiver pick.

 

That being said, who to drop is a question mark. I'm not convinced that Brown isn't the starter still, or that he doesn't have value when/if he is traded to another team. The ironic part would be if you drop him to keep Lundy and he gets traded to Houston or Denver (both rumors have circulated) and becomes an even better starter. Then you'd possibly be given him the Houston starter in exchange for the backup there, and the egg would be on your face (I hate egg on my face). I think I'd stall and ask for a vote from the other owners, just to piss him off. :cheers:

 

 

And you sound like someone who is a pain in the ass to his Commish because you look to exploit every possible avenue to circumvent the rules. You blatantly state you want to put someone healthy on IR, that alone would be enough that you would not be invited back into any money league I run. It is a Commish job to enforce the rules that are agreed upon by the league and when money is at stake cheating should not be tolerated. Your roster is your roster regardless of when in the season or preseason it is, if it is in default then you are cheating.

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Your commisioner is an moron.

The irony of this post is not lost on me. :cheers:

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That's not the point, the point was that the player is attemting, by your definition of it, to do something immoral by gaining an advantage due to an oversite, or by lack of clarification of the rules. Now, having said all this, if I were a fellow owner in this league, I would have complained about this roster move. I agree that if the poster was going to pick up a back and he was already at the roster limit on them, that he would need to drop one first. I also agree that if a roster limit was in place, it should not have allowed him to pick one up without dropping one first. I believe that there is a difference "replacing an injured player" and "hoarding" players, which this person appears to have been doing. But again, don't start throwing those stones until you can honestly say you follow every rule, obey every law and always make the right decision.

 

Good topic by the way.

 

Actually, it is the point. This was not an oversight. It was a clearly stated rule that the original poster deliberately violated. Killer Elite's argument was that the rule is breakable because there isn't a physical enforcement of the rule. Good grief! My comment was completely warranted given the complete lack of scruples in such an act.

 

Let me ask you something: Is a cashier not a thief if he steals with no surveillance camera to catch him?

 

 

 

By the way, I'm sorry that you think that "everyone lies, cheats, or worse", at least when it comes to fantasy football. Yes, people are fallen. But that doesn't mean that it should be okay. And it certainly doesn't mean that you should allow rules to be trampled.

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Well you are not giving apples to apples comparisons there. I am not in this league and really have no idea what the rules are or aren't. My assumption is that this player felt he was allowed to have an illegal roster up until game time(which is how the rules read on most sites) and was surprised to find out that instead you must not have an illegal roster at 5pm on the Wed. 8 days before the start of the season.

 

With those assumptions, he still has done nothing wrong as he can have an illegal roster up until 5pm. If that is indeed how the rule is written then good for him for gaining Lundy, and possibly getting value out of M. Barber or Brown prior to having to drop them.

 

My real argument is that this situation is being caused by rules that are in place in someone head and are 1) not well communicated to the players, 2) Not set up correctly on the website, and 3) The wrong answer to the problem that exists with people hording players in the first place.

 

I better comparison would be this: Rule states: Only people listed by CBS Sportsline as Injured may be on the IR. Lets say I have T.O. on my team and I have placed him on the IR as I picked up Lelie off waivers. T.O. plays in their next preseason game and is no longer listed as injured by CBS. At that point my roster is illegal based on the rules. Am I now a cheater and need the commissioner to bully me into dropping my player by 5pm? Or do I have until the next game to right my roster and drop Lelie back to free agency?

 

Based on the rules As I understand them the penalty for having an illegal roster at game time means I forfeit. There was no rule in my example above that says I have to do anything before then.

 

My guess is our poster here is in that same situation. There was no rule that said he couldn't do what he did, so he did it. That doesn't make him a cheater. It makes him a smart player using strategy to block another's attempt to get a top 30 RB.

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If your rule states that you can have a max of 4 RB's on your roster, then you need to drop one. I don't know why that's so hard to figure out.

 

Keeping him until gameday is not ok. It's effectively churning the wire. A move where you pick up a player and drop him so that he won't clear waivers until after the games have started, effectively blocking anyone else from picking him up. Maybe that's not your intent, and you just want to see who ends up where by game time. But that's the effect it has, and why your commissioner is raising a stink about it.

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Well you are not giving apples to apples comparisons there. I am not in this league and really have no idea what the rules are or aren’t. My assumption is that this player felt he was allowed to have an illegal roster up until game time(which is how the rules read on most sites) and was surprised to find out that instead you must not have an illegal roster at 5pm on the Wed. 8 days before the start of the season.

 

With those assumptions, he still has done nothing wrong as he can have an illegal roster up until 5pm. If that is indeed how the rule is written then good for him for gaining Lundy, and possibly getting value out of M. Barber or Brown prior to having to drop them.

 

My real argument is that this situation is being caused by rules that are in place in someone head and are 1) not well communicated to the players, 2) Not set up correctly on the website, and 3) The wrong answer to the problem that exists with people hording players in the first place.

 

I better comparison would be this: Rule states: Only people listed by CBS Sportsline as Injured may be on the IR. Lets say I have T.O. on my team and I have placed him on the IR as I picked up Lelie off waivers. T.O. plays in their next preseason game and is no longer listed as injured by CBS. At that point my roster is illegal based on the rules. Am I now a cheater and need the commissioner to bully me into dropping my player by 5pm? Or do I have until the next game to right my roster and drop Lelie back to free agency?

 

Based on the rules As I understand them the penalty for having an illegal roster at game time means I forfeit. There was no rule in my example above that says I have to do anything before then.

 

My guess is our poster here is in that same situation. There was no rule that said he couldn’t do what he did, so he did it. That doesn’t make him a cheater. It makes him a smart player using strategy to block another’s attempt to get a top 20 RB.

Maybe you should read the first post again. His first line is : "So the league rules state you can have MAX 4 RBs...."

 

The guy knows he can't have more than 4, yet he does anyway because he figures he wouldn't get a penalty (forfeit) until the games started. The commish steps in, and people are backing the guy trying to bend/break the rules.

 

Also, as for your scenario, i'd say your league needs to have a rule in place for IR as per when guys must come off or not have it at all. In my humble opinion, IR should be for guys who can't play and can't help your team, not a convenient way to expand your roster. That's just me though.

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My guess is our poster here is in that same situation. There was no rule that said he couldn't do what he did, so he did it. That doesn't make him a cheater. It makes him a smart player using strategy to block another's attempt to get a top 30 RB.

 

Nice spin job but no matter how you twirl it, the rule states that you can't have more than 4 RBs. So why at any point would anyone think they can have 5 on the roster? Just because the website "allows" it to happen and then warns you that your roster is illegal after the fact doesn't make everything kosher. The commisioner said all he needed to say by having a maximum of 4RBs. Bottomline is that the owner knowingly tried to bend the rules in his favor thinking he has a loophole. He doesn't.

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I totally agree.. but I guess my point is, that if you don't post the penalty for the rule, the assumption is that the penalty is the sites rules meaning forfeit at the start of the game. In that scenario though he broke the rule intentionally, he would only suffer a forfeit if he maintains an illegal roster at game time. So is this cheating? I think he is playing inside the rules that were provided him.

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Actually, it is the point. This was not an oversight. It was a clearly stated rule that the original poster deliberately violated. Killer Elite's argument was that the rule is breakable because there isn't a physical enforcement of the rule. Good grief! My comment was completely warranted given the complete lack of scruples in such an act.

 

Let me ask you something: Is a cashier not a thief if he steals with no surveillance camera to catch him?

By the way, I'm sorry that you think that "everyone lies, cheats, or worse", at least when it comes to fantasy football. Yes, people are fallen. But that doesn't mean that it should be okay. And it certainly doesn't mean that you should allow rules to be trampled.

 

Yes, a cashier who steals is a thief, regardless of whether he is seen/caught or gets away scott-free. Along the same lines someone who speeds is a law breaker. Is that speeder any more or any less guilty than our poster here? Or is it more likely that amount of "wrongness" is assessed based on what the crime was? On the road, everybody speeds and rolls through an occassional stop sign. But in "your league", nobody is permitted to break the skirt/break/bend the rules else the iron hand of the commish falls. Again, does it make the speeder any less wrong? No. It's only cause you have the power to enforce your rules that you look down on the ffl guy more. Chances are you too are one of those occassional speeders/california-stop artists who knows you won't get caught most times. So although it may make you a good commish, it makes you a bit hypocritical if you break rules knowing they probably won't get enforced but condemn this gentleman for doing the same thing.

 

Now, to clarify, it wasn't just Fantasy Football that I was referring to, it's life in general. I find myself in agreement with enforcement of the rule which says no more than 4 RB on a roster. If you take that rule literally, then not only did he violate the rule, but he appears to have done so intentionally. As I mentioned regarding my similar situation, I did state that I was only "considering" it. I have not done so nor do I think I will do so. Right vs wrong, good vs bad, moral vs immoral isn't black and white, it's shades of grey, perception and public opinion to a large extent. However, rules are rules, and "no more than 4 RB" is fairly black and white and is slighly different than someone who has an injured player placing him on IR to pickup somebody else, even if that injury is grey area in itself.

 

:blink:

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Why is the commish the bad guy for enforcing a league rule.

 

I think the rule is stupid, but if it is a league rule doesn't he have the obligation to enforce it. Looks like he is just doing his job to me.

 

 

I think the point is he is not enforcing the rule as the league states it needs to be enforced.

 

the league says he can have more than 4 so long as he has no more than 4 by the time the season begins.

 

his commish basically said screw the rules, you have until tonite to drop one.

 

that's wrong in my opinion and you should think about moving to another league.

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The owner knows what the intent of the rule was. He broke it regardless of the ineptitude of the commissioner not able to set the fantasy system up to prevent it. If I were the commish, I'd force Lundy back to the waiver wire and ask all owners not to do it. The rule is to prevent hording and promote competitiveness regardless what some on here feel is a taboo concept.

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If he had tried to draft a 5th RB would the commish have allowed it.

 

Did anyone draft more players at a position than the league rules allow?

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