ESPN Page 2 Writer thinks

[KSB2424 3,174]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nba

 

Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.

 

Not more successful.

 

Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.

 

Hasn't won more MVPs.

 

Hasn't won more titles.

 

But he's a better player.

 

Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.

 

Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.

 

At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.

 

Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.

 

Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.

 

Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.

 

In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.

 

Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.

 

The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.

 

Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.

 

Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

 

The NBA is tougher now.

 

Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

 

Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.

 

The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.

 

Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither is Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.

 

Now that's a valuable player.

[itsbigmoni 1]

He makes some valid points for sure, but i think i'd still go with jordan. 6 rings is 6 rings.

[RLLD 4,275]

He makes some valid points for sure, but i think i'd still go with jordan. 6 rings is 6 rings.

 

Exactly. Jordan made the people around him better players, Kobe could not hope to do something as impressive as that.

[BMoney 0]

Jemele is only 19 and has had Kobes seed busted up in her.....

 

 

of course shes biased....

 

 

both have had affairs outside of their marriages..is that one on the list?...

 

main diff...

 

jordan helped pippen win rings....

 

 

shaq fu helped kobe win rings....

 

game over....

 

kobe, go change your jersey number to 69 this time because u got....

 

 

 

[Snoopy1 0]

Exactly. Jordan made the people around him better players, Kobe could not hope to do something as impressive as that.

 

 

Agreed, I just don't believe that Kobe+Pippin+(Grant/Rodman) wins 6 titles.

[Guest Davaco]

you cannot compare eras. when Jordan played, no blood, no foul. and he still couldnt be stopped

 

in an attempt to get people to watch the game since MJ left, hand checking and defense rules have been relaxed.

 

kobe is great, but no MJ

[parrot 789]

Too bad he's such a doosh that most people are unwilling to even consider the possibility.

[surferskin 31]

Agreed, I just don't believe that Kobe+Pippin+(Grant/Rodman) wins 6 titles.

honestly, i do. not saying kobe is better than MJ but i certainly don't doubt that if you replaced jordan with kobe, the bulls still wouldn't have been stopped.

[Fumbleweed 555]

I think Magic Johnson was a more valuable player than both of them.....but that's just me.

 

I normally don't compare players that play different positions, but in this case, Jordan and Bryant do have similar roles. I think they are pretty similar in most ways. Jordan may have had some intangibles that Kobe does not have, but the two are definitely close in terms of their talents.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Shaq wins no rings without Kobe. Shaq didn't give Kobe rings. It goes both ways. If you substituted an avg nba player for either shaq or kobe, neither one of them wins a single ring.

 

And kobe didn't chase shaq out of L.A. Shaq was just as guilty as anyone. He said he wanted a PAY RAISE from his already crazy 28 million salary. Shaqs ego was just as much of a problem as Kobe's. The only difference is Shaq is friendly with the media and kobe isn't, so shaq gets a free ride on everything he says/does.

[lennie75 0]

you cannot compare eras. when Jordan played, no blood, no foul. and he still couldnt be stopped

 

in an attempt to get people to watch the game since MJ left, hand checking and defense rules have been relaxed.

 

kobe is great, but no MJ

Great point...Yeah I know Jordan got his share of calls. But, MJ would score 50 in Free Throws alone in today's game!!! And that is just the officiating of the games. I am actually one of the Kobe fans...but he is no MJ. MJ jacked up players because they didn't practive hard or took time off...he expected players to play up to his standards. I see no problem with pushing Purdue around a little to make him play harder!!!!

[Snoopy1 0]

honestly, i do. not saying kobe is better than MJ but i certainly don't doubt that if you replaced jordan with kobe, the bulls still wouldn't have been stopped.

 

 

 

Strictly on talent, it should be a wash, I just don't believe that Kobe gets headcase Pippen & headcase Rodman to play at the level needed to win multiple championships.

 

Hell, in his heyday, Pippen got on the 50th best players evah list...in retrospect, IMO, that's a focking joke. Anyway opinions will vary.

[surferskin 31]

Strictly on talent, it should be a wash, I just don't believe that Kobe gets headcase Pippen & headcase Rodman to play at the level needed to win multiple championships.

 

Hell, in his heyday, Pippen got on the 50th best players evah list...in retrospect, IMO, that's a focking joke. Anyway opinions will vary.

you gotta think, even the year jordan left to play baseball the bulls were a bad foul(pippen's clean block) call away from playing in the finals.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Strictly on talent, it should be a wash, I just don't believe that Kobe gets headcase Pippen & headcase Rodman to play at the level needed to win multiple championships.

 

Hell, in his heyday, Pippen got on the 50th best players evah list...in retrospect, IMO, that's a focking joke. Anyway opinions will vary.

 

 

Are you crazy? Pippen would guard the best player on the court 1-4. The only position he didn't defend was center. The year that jordan played baseball, they made it to the conference finals. His stats were like 22-5-5 or something. And think about it, when a player yoru whole team is based on retires all the sudden, it changes the dynamic of the team. Usually it would take a season or two to adjust, focus the attention on a different player, use the newfound cap space, things like that. But pippen took the same team to game 6 or maybe 7 in the conference finals.

 

If walton is on there, pippen deserves a spot.

[Snoopy1 0]

Are you crazy? Pippen would guard the best player on the court 1-4. The only position he didn't defend was center. The year that jordan played baseball, they made it to the conference finals. His stats were like 22-5-5 or something. And think about it, when a player yoru whole team is based on retires all the sudden, it changes the dynamic of the team. Usually it would take a season or two to adjust, focus the attention on a different player, use the newfound cap space, things like that. But pippen took the same team to game 6 or maybe 7 in the conference finals.

 

If walton is on there, pippen deserves a spot.

 

 

I disagree, he was the focus of the offense and posted career numbers. They also lost to a team that lost the finals. I agree he was a very good defender.

 

I stand by my statement that he was a headcase.

 

Again, it's all just opinion. At the end of the day, it's just about the W's & Ls.

[DrJ 0]

you gotta think, even the year jordan left to play baseball the bulls were a bad foul(pippen's clean block) call away from playing in the finals.

 

Exactly - they won 55 games and Pippen was the best non center in the league. BY FAR. If it weren't for Olajuwan and Robinson, he would have been MVP of the league.

 

1 lame call away from the Finals - WITHOUT Jordan.

 

Scottie's never going to live down 2.8, and he didn't do a ton after he left the Bulls due to some physical issues. But anyone trying to suggest that he wasn't a great player in his prime, and that Jordan didn't have a great support cast, is just uninformed.

 

I'm pretty sure if you added Kobe to a team capable of winning 55 games without him, they'd win titles with him. Pick a 55 win team from last year, add Kobe to it, and tell me they aren't title contenders and probably favorites.

[edjr 6,898]

I'm not sure I can say Kobe is better than Jordan, at least not today.

 

I can say this today. Scottie Pippen is one of the more underated NBA players of ALL TIME.

[parrot 789]

I can say this today. Scottie Pippen is one of the more underated NBA players of ALL TIME.

Every now and then you have to an edjr post.

 

One of the great defenders ever, a solid multi-threat scorer, and a great transition player on both ends. So much of what the Bulls did was predicated on having Jordan and Pippen on the floor. Jordan made everybody better, but Scottie made Jordan better.

[DrJ 0]

I disagree, he was the focus of the offense and posted career numbers. They also lost to a team that lost the finals. I agree he was a very good defender.

 

I stand by my statement that he was a headcase.

 

Again, it's all just opinion. At the end of the day, it's just about the W's & Ls.

 

The numbers weren't out of line with his career average at all.

 

91-92: 20.97 PPG

92-93: 18.64 PPG

93-94: 22.0 PPG

94-95: 21.4 PPG

95-96: 19.4 PPG

96-97: 20.19 PPG

 

Bottom line is that because he was a media darling, Jordan's supporting cast gets far too little credit. 55 wins without him on the roster says it all though.

[Black59Razor 0]

I'm a big Jordan fan. I have watched countless videos of Jordan. Apparently Kobe has too. Every move Kobe makes is exactly a Jordan move. The post up, lean backwards to create space for the turn around jumper, is vintage Jordan. Look at his jumper it is Jordan. I always said Kobe is the next Jordan. We all heard that phrase before, especially with Harold Miner. But, Kobe is the only one who actually was and is believable. He is not better than Jordan however. He is not as graceful and smooth on the court. He is a great emulator of Jordan's moves but he will never be better. Jordan got away with a lot of stuff, but he paid for that fringe benefit early in his career, by getting pounded by Detroit and Cleveland. Kobe has yet to prove he is the one and only to lead a team to 6 rings. He hasn't proven that he can take a pounding and still deliver. If Jordan had Shaq between 90' - 98' It would have been ridiculous. I truly believe if Jordan didn't retire the first time they would have won 8 straight. Kobe will only be Jordan's shadow at best when it is all said and done. Here is an indicator to how great Jordan is and was. When the talk of him having an affair came out, it was like "So what!" "Keep that quiet." It wasn't aired all over the television Jordan wasn't apologizing for it. That was Kobe's deadly mistake he thought he was Jordan and could do whatever he wanted. What does this have to do with basketball? Absolutely nothing. But greatness is greatness on and off the court and people tend to brush things under the rug when you have that legendary greatness.

[jerryskids 7,090]

you cannot compare eras. when Jordan played, no blood, no foul. and he still couldnt be stopped

 

in an attempt to get people to watch the game since MJ left, hand checking and defense rules have been relaxed.

 

kobe is great, but no MJ

Excellent point. I hate the whole era comparison anyway. Babe Ruth wouldn't even get a tryout today, but he is arguably the best baseball player ever. Times change, athletes get bigger/faster/stronger. You can only compare athletes vs. their peers IMO.

[DrJ 0]

Kobe has yet to prove he is the one and only to lead a team to 6 rings.

 

Kobe's supporting staff couldn't win 55 games without him, not in a million years. Jordan's actually went out and did it.

 

Until people can acknowledge that that happened, Jordan had a terrific team around him, and he didn't win 6 titles by himself, any discussion about his accomplishments are more legend than anything else.

[KSB2424 3,174]

I refuse to live in a universe in which more than one person thinks Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.

[parrot 789]

Kobe's supporting staff couldn't win 55 games without him, not in a million years. Jordan's actually went out and did it.are more legend than anything else.

Kobe hasn't won a title without Shaq.

[DrJ 0]

Kobe hasn't won a title without Shaq.

 

Jordan won 0 without Pippen.

 

Yet, Pippen did win 55 games and almost made it to the NBA finals without Jordan.

[parrot 789]

Jordan won 0 without Pippen.

 

Yet, Pippen did win 55 games and almost made it to the NBA finals without Jordan.

I've already posted that I think Pippen was a great player in his own right.

 

My point is that if you're going to compare supporting casts you should compare the ones that actually won titles respectively, not Jordan's that won titles and Kobe's that didn't.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Jordan won 0 without Pippen.

 

Yet, Pippen did win 55 games and almost made it to the NBA finals without Jordan.

 

Shaq won a NBA title without Kobe.

 

and around we go

[surferskin 31]

Shaq won a NBA title without Kobe.

 

and around we go

but not without dwayne wade.

[Snoopy1 0]

 

I can say this today. Scottie Pippen is one of the more underated NBA players of ALL TIME.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, how is a player who will likely make the HOF & rated by the NBA as one of it's 50 greatest players of all-time underated?

[KSB2424 3,174]

but not without dwayne wade.

 

Who has never won a title without Gary Payton.

[parrot 789]

Just out of curiosity, how is a player who will likely make the HOF & rated by the NBA as one of it's 50 greatest players of all-time underated?

Uh, because people like you say it's a joke that he is rated that way?

[jerryskids 7,090]

Who has never won a title without Gary Payton.

This can only lead to the inevitable conclusion that Robert Horry is the greatest player evah.

[KSB2424 3,174]

In all honesty, I think a better comparison would be between Kobe and Scottie.

 

Both won multiple titles w/ a superstar leader

Both did well on their own, but never got back to the Finals.

Both played great defense and offense.

Both are selfish biothes.

 

[parrot 789]

This can only lead to the inevitable conclusion that Robert Horry is the greatest player evah.

Is this still even a question?

[Snoopy1 0]

Uh, because people like you say it's a joke that he is rated that way?

 

 

I'm one person, who thinks he's overated, I could be wrong. It seems most of the sporting public & NBA feel the other way.

 

How is he underated?

[NewbieJr 541]

[DrJ 0]

Both won multiple titles w/ a superstar leader

 

Well, I'd say that applies to Jordan II as much as Kobe, since Pippen was the best player on the team during that 2nd run.

 

Honestly, I'd say Kobe falls somewhere in between Jordan I and Jordan II. He's not as quick as Jordan I, though his height advantage does make up for that a bit. Still, Jordan I would probably take him to the hole with that amazingly quick 1st step. I'd give a slight edge to Jordan, but it would really be closer than people want to admit.

 

He's definitely a better player than Jordan II though. He's quicker, taller, and just plain better. He won't get beat nearly as badly by the smaller, quicker guards as Jordan II did.

 

If you added Kobe to the Phoenix Suns, I'm gonna guess they'd win the thing.	 That's what Jordan basically had - a 55 win supporting cast.

[Black59Razor 0]

Jordan had a terrific team around him, and he didn't win 6 titles by himself, any discussion about his accomplishments are more legend than anything else.

 

 

Terrific? Livingston? Longley? Cartwright? Perdue? Myers? Wennington? Brown? Buechler?

 

 

Terrific = Pippen not Kukoc, not BJ Armstrong, not Horace Grant. You have to remember not many out of this terrific team were consistent scorers. Especially Rodman. Everytime Longley or Cartwritght got the ball it was an 80% chance they would blow the layup.

 

 

You are kidding me right? Now let's put up the list of hall of famers that Jordan and his terrific team put to bed during those championships.

 

1. Magic Johnson

2. Charles Barkley

3. Clyde Drexler

4. John Stockton

5. Karl Malone

 

And not to mention the HOF's that he and his "terrific" team had to defeat just to get to the championship.

 

The playoff battles alone were like Championships, especially against the Knicks. Terrific?

 

Some notable names Jordan and the terrifics had to face: I. Thomas, J. Dumars, V. Johnson, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Patrick Ewing, J. Starks, Terry Porter, Kevin Johnson, Tom Chambers, Dan Majerle. I am sure I missed some.

[edjr 6,898]

Just out of curiosity, how is a player who will likely make the HOF & rated by the NBA as one of it's 50 greatest players of all-time underated?

 

 

so being #1 is the same as being #50 on that list?

 

Pippen will never get the credit he deserves, he will always be underated.

[itsbigmoni 1]

Kobe hasn't won a title without Shaq.

 

Do you think shaq would even have sniffed the finals without Kobe???? Shaq wouldn't have made it past the first round of the playoffs. Not sure how many of you actually watched the games, but in the 4th quarter it was all kobe. Shaq would sometimes even be pulled because of his FT shooting.

 

Shaq never won a title without a top-2 SG on his team. Jordan never won a title without the best/versatile SF.

 

Moral of the story, unless you have a great supporting cast, you won't win a ring without 2 stars. Either you have to be a team that meshes perfectly, pistons, or have a team with a solid role player or two who can hit a 3, and two stars.

 

Plus, whenever someone talks about the bulls, they talk about how Pippen was the team leader. Players were too scared to go up to jordan so they would approach pippen.