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Dr. Octopus

Rumor: Lions and Bucs Have Swapped Picks

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http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

 

Our friends at WDAE in Tampa have tipped us off to a rumor that we're in the process of confirming that the Lions have traded the No. 2 overall pick in the 2007 draft to the Buccaneers for the No. 4 overall pick and defensive end Simeon Rice.

A league source tells us that, while there is not a done deal, the talks are occurring regarding a flip-flop of No. 2 and No. 4. It's not presently clear whether Rice is part of the deal.

The Bucs presumably want to get in position to take receiver Calvin Johnson with the No. 2 selection, if the Raiders don't take Johnson with the No. 1.

The real intrigue on this one arises if the Raiders take Johnson. Would the Bucs then pick quarterback JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn? Or would they take left tackle Joe Thomas?

Recently, the Bucs conducted on-campus workouts with Johnson, Russell, and Quinn. They didn't include Thomas in the tour, and we've seen some evidence in the Tampa press of possible efforts by the team to bad-mouth Thomas, possibly in the hopes that he'll be available at No. 4.

It could be that the Lions are willing to make the deal to go down to No. 4 because they think they could still get Thomas at that spot. But if Johnson is the No. 1 pick, Thomas might be long gone by the time the Lions use the pick currently held by Tampa.

We're keeping a close eye on this one. Check back for more details.

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rumors within rumors within rumors :doh:

 

Like they have any idea who wants Joe Thomas :mad:

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This would be a moronic deal for both teams.

 

The Lions would be getting a 32 y/o pass rusher coming off an injury / down year when they could get at least another 2nd rounder for trading down and possibly more. This makes more sense for the Bucs, but their defense is sprouting holes all over the place already and they wouldn't even be guaranteed to get Calvin Johnson. If they get Russell they can count on sucking for another year while he develops and the D deteriorates.

 

This sounds like pure rumor to me. The Lions would be nuts to trade the pick now when they can entertain offers and jack up the value of the #2 on draft day. Some team - the Bucs, Vikings or Falcons - is going to offer them a ton for the #2.

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This would be a moronic deal for both teams.

 

The Lions would be getting a 32 y/o pass rusher coming off an injury / down year when they could get at least another 2nd rounder for trading down and possibly more. This makes more sense for the Bucs, but their defense is sprouting holes all over the place already and they wouldn't even be guaranteed to get Calvin Johnson. If they get Russell they can count on sucking for another year while he develops and the D deteriorates.

 

This sounds like pure rumor to me. The Lions would be nuts to trade the pick now when they can entertain offers and jack up the value of the #2 on draft day. Some team - the Bucs, Vikings or Falcons - is going to offer them a ton for the #2.

 

 

As far as Tampa not be guaranteed of getting CJ, they could use the #2 in a package to move up to #1. As far as the Lions, yes I think they could get more, but Marinelli was in Tampa and perhaps he thinks Rice is what they need. The Cover-2 defense doesn't work without a strong pass rush.

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I really don't see Tampa trading up to #2, with absolutely no guarantee that CJ will be there. Yesterday there were rumours saying that Tampa was ready to deal ALL of their day 1 picks to get the 1st....now today they're ready to deal Simeon Rice to get up to #2.

 

Rumours are rumours. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes they don't....this one just doesnt make sense to me.

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It would make perfect sense for both teams. I think the Lions could get more and I think if this deal goes down that they will end up getting atleast another pick in the deal. The Lions need a veteran DE and to get value for the 2nd pick. They could still take Adams at 4 or even Brady Quinn. As far as the Bucs, they need and want CJ2 and they have been wanting to get rid of Rice. Why not use him to move up two spots and get the best player in the draft. Russell is going to go to the Raiders. Al Davis is not going to pass on a potential franchise QB, that he hasn't had in forever. This trade would work out great for every team in the top 5.

1) Oak- J. Russell

2) TB- CJ2

3) Cle- A. Peterson

4) Det- Adams or Quinn

5) Ari- J. Thomas

 

Everybody gets what they want and players they need. Couldn't work out better. But the Lions should get atleast a 3rd Rd. or early 2nd day pick in the deal as well.

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It would make perfect sense for both teams. I think the Lions could get more and I think if this deal goes down that they will end up getting atleast another pick in the deal. The Lions need a veteran DE and to get value for the 2nd pick. They could still take Adams at 4 or even Brady Quinn. As far as the Bucs, they need and want CJ2 and they have been wanting to get rid of Rice. Why not use him to move up two spots and get the best player in the draft. Russell is going to go to the Raiders. Al Davis is not going to pass on a potential franchise QB, that he hasn't had in forever. This trade would work out great for every team in the top 5.

1) Oak- J. Russell

2) TB- CJ2

3) Cle- A. Peterson

4) Det- Adams or Quinn

5) Ari- J. Thomas

 

Everybody gets what they want and players they need. Couldn't work out better. But the Lions should get atleast a 3rd Rd. or early 2nd day pick in the deal as well.

 

 

:D It would work great

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As far as Tampa not be guaranteed of getting CJ, they could use the #2 in a package to move up to #1. As far as the Lions, yes I think they could get more, but Marinelli was in Tampa and perhaps he thinks Rice is what they need. The Cover-2 defense doesn't work without a strong pass rush.

 

Rice is 32 and had exactly two sacks in 8 games last year. Maybe he returns to double digit sack form, but why would a team like Detroit with holes everywhere trade for a guy his age when they can add at least another 2nd round pick? And why would they do anything before draft day? :D

 

The Lions are in a great draft position. No matter what the Raiders do, some team is going to offer them at least a high 2nd rounder and possibly more to trade down to the 4 to 8 spots. They would be nuts to make a deal now. Detroit should consider drafting Calvin Johnson outright and forcing Tampa's hand.

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No thank you.

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I guess it is Matt Millen, so anything is possible, but that is one of the dumbest rumors evah. Or at least in the last two days, since the plan was to trade all the rest of their draft picks yesterday. Horrible.

 

Soon the Bucs will be trading their entire draft, Jack Plummer, John Gruden, Simeon Rice, James Wilder, and Lee Roy Solomon to move up.

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Heard this on Detroit sports radio, consensus is that it would be a moronic trade for Lions, marinelli likes Rice but he is on downslide of career. No. 2 pick is worth way more than that.

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Rice is 32 and had exactly two sacks in 8 games last year. Maybe he returns to double digit sack form, but why would a team like Detroit with holes everywhere trade for a guy his age when they can add at least another 2nd round pick? And why would they do anything before draft day? :blink:

 

The Lions are in a great draft position. No matter what the Raiders do, some team is going to offer them at least a high 2nd rounder and possibly more to trade down to the 4 to 8 spots. They would be nuts to make a deal now. Detroit should consider drafting Calvin Johnson outright and forcing Tampa's hand.

 

Because they're clueless.

 

I agree with your 2nd point.

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I don't think Tampa even needs to move from their spot to land CJ.

 

Oakland and Detroit NEED a QB.

 

Aaron Brooks and Kitna are no starters.

 

So Oakland should take Russell or Quinn.

Which leaves Detroit to take Thomas or the QB Oakland doesn't pick.

Which leaves either Thomas or Peterson for Clevland. Clevland doesn't need CJ as they just drafter Braylon Edwards.

 

 

So I bet Tampa could still land CJ in #4.

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rumors within rumors within rumors :cheers:

 

Like they have any idea who wants Joe Thomas :D

the chiefs would take joe thomas

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The Cover-2 defense doesn't work without a strong pass rush.

 

well essentially no scheme works without a strong pass rush, but I don't think Mr. Rice has a lot left in the tank regardless.

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I don't think Tampa even needs to move from their spot to land CJ.

 

Oakland and Detroit NEED a QB.

 

Aaron Brooks and Kitna are no starters.

 

So Oakland should take Russell or Quinn.

Which leaves Detroit to take Thomas or the QB Oakland doesn't pick.

Which leaves either Thomas or Peterson for Clevland. Clevland doesn't need CJ as they just drafter Braylon Edwards.

So I bet Tampa could still land CJ in #4.

 

Aaron Brooks was released, so he is no longer on the team and there is no question that the Raiders #1 priority is a QB. But Kitna was a borderline pro bowler last year, which was his first year in the Martz system. Kitna is not the long term answer, buy he'll do for now.

 

What people tend to forget is that normally the #2 pick will get paid quite a bit more than the #4 pick, especially a QB. The Lions won't make another mistake by taking Quinn at 2 and investing that much money in him. Gaines Adams is a reach at 2, so if the Bucs decided not to make a deal, the Lions will find someone who will or they will take CJ2. He won't fall to 4.

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I don't think Tampa even needs to move from their spot to land CJ.

 

Oakland and Detroit NEED a QB.

 

Aaron Brooks and Kitna are no starters.

 

So Oakland should take Russell or Quinn.

Which leaves Detroit to take Thomas or the QB Oakland doesn't pick.

Which leaves either Thomas or Peterson for Clevland. Clevland doesn't need CJ as they just drafter Braylon Edwards.

So I bet Tampa could still land CJ in #4.

 

 

your logic is incorrect because ATL or MINN may be making offers to move up to land CJ

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your logic is incorrect because ATL or MINN may be making offers to move up to land CJ

 

I agree his logic is wrong but if you think that divisonal rivals are going to trade with each other allowing one of the teams to be facing CJ two times a year, you're logic is a bit :blink: as well.

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Looking at what Detroit needs and the fact the past two years they have spent a first round on a WR that turned into nothing they cannot draft a WR.

 

Millen already should have lost his job years ago by being stupid so I guess anything is possible.

 

I don't care how good Kitna's numbers were, its easy to put up good numbers when the game has already been won by the other team and now they are playing prevent defense. If Oakland doesn't take Quinn Detroit NEEDS to draft him as soon as they can @ #2. What if Oakland takes Russell and Clevland takes Quinn? Then they have to take Thomas, and as good as he is it won't make as big an impact as a franchise QB will. Theres no guarantee that Quinn is a franchise QB but I think he's the safest bet, like Leinart last year, which now countless teams are kicking themselves for not taking. He's going to be awesome in Arizona this year.

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Looking at what Detroit needs and the fact the past two years they have spent a first round on a WR that turned into nothing they cannot draft a WR.

 

The Lions drafted a LB last year and three years ago they drafted Roy Williams so let's at least keep the facts straight. The idea is that they had two busts. I understand that. I don't think the Lions should draft CJ, but you certainly don't allow past drafting mistakes to dictate your future picks. That's just compounding the problem to avoid embarrassment. You do what you think is right for your team and you live with it.

 

I don't care how good Kitna's numbers were, its easy to put up good numbers when the game has already been won by the other team and now they are playing prevent defense. If Oakland doesn't take Quinn Detroit NEEDS to draft him as soon as they can @ #2. What if Oakland takes Russell and Clevland takes Quinn? Then they have to take Thomas, and as good as he is it won't make as big an impact as a franchise QB will. Theres no guarantee that Quinn is a franchise QB but I think he's the safest bet, like Leinart last year, which now countless teams are kicking themselves for not taking. He's going to be awesome in Arizona this year.

 

Kitna is probably never going to be the answer. I'll give you that, but I can absolutely gurantee you that a rookie QB is not going to come in and win the job in a complicated Martz offense in his first year. The Lions still like Orlovsky's potential and he is going into his 2nd year with this offense. Of course, you could still gotta throw McCown into the mix and he could step in for an injured or ineffective Kitna and possibly be the man. Bottomline is that QB isn't the most pressing need for the #2 pick in the draft. No matter how good your QB is, if he's sacked 60+ times, he's going to be average at best. Fix the Oline with Thomas or trade out of the pick and go defense. (Adams/Willis)

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Looking at what Detroit needs and the fact the past two years they have spent a first round on a WR that turned into nothing they cannot draft a WR.

 

Millen already should have lost his job years ago by being stupid so I guess anything is possible.

 

I don't care how good Kitna's numbers were, its easy to put up good numbers when the game has already been won by the other team and now they are playing prevent defense. If Oakland doesn't take Quinn Detroit NEEDS to draft him as soon as they can @ #2. What if Oakland takes Russell and Clevland takes Quinn? Then they have to take Thomas, and as good as he is it won't make as big an impact as a franchise QB will. Theres no guarantee that Quinn is a franchise QB but I think he's the safest bet, like Leinart last year, which now countless teams are kicking themselves for not taking. He's going to be awesome in Arizona this year.

 

pretty much echo what yostevo said.

 

i'd rather see the lions trade down and get extra day 1 picks...they could use of those extra picks on someone like stanton or edwards. that's my vote in fixing the qb issue. don't know if either of those 2 will be good. but don't know that about quinn or mr. butterball russell, either.

 

but this particular rumor at the top of this thread? stupid horseshiat. not even worth talking about. that's why i haven't weighed in on it. the compensation is nonsensical, as the tampa papers have already correctly pointed out.

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I don't think Tampa even needs to move from their spot to land CJ.

 

Oakland and Detroit NEED a QB.

 

Aaron Brooks and Kitna are no starters.

 

So Oakland should take Russell or Quinn.

 

The problem with this is, you're assuming Russell or Quinn are starters. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption.

The other problem with it is, like others pointed out, the Bucs have to be wary of other teams trading ahead of them and taking CJ.

 

That's said, IMO think there's about a 55% chance that CJ would fall to #4 if Tampa doesn't trade up. To me, if I'm Tampa, it's worth taking that chance and staying at 4.

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The problem with this is, you're assuming Russell or Quinn are starters. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption.

The other problem with it is, like others pointed out, the Bucs have to be wary of other teams trading ahead of them and taking CJ.

 

That's said, IMO think there's about a 55% chance that CJ would fall to #4 if Tampa doesn't trade up. To me, if I'm Tampa, it's worth taking that chance and staying at 4.

 

i'd put it at closer to 20 percent that cj falls to #4. if he gets to 3 teams will be frantically calling the browns...just don't see it.

 

of course this pot thing could cause a minor slide...but everything i've read says it's a non-issue with him (as far as falling).

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The problem with this is, you're assuming Russell or Quinn are starters. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption.

The other problem with it is, like others pointed out, the Bucs have to be wary of other teams trading ahead of them and taking CJ.

 

That's said, IMO think there's about a 55% chance that CJ would fall to #4 if Tampa doesn't trade up. To me, if I'm Tampa, it's worth taking that chance and staying at 4.

 

 

I agree with the first point. There is no guarantee that Russell and Quinn will be starters. In my opinion I think they are both as good as the big trio of QB's last year, but all depends on what situation their put in. And secondly if CJ2 is there at two, there are going to be more teams than Tampa that are trying to trade up. But don't count out the Lions either. If they don't get value for their pick, then I wouldn't put it past Millen just to take CJ2.

 

Now for the 2nd point. There is no way that he falls to 4. I don't think he will fall past 2 regardless if the Lions trade out or not. This guy is by far the best player in the draft and the best WR to come out of college since Randy Moss. The Raiders have the worst QB situation in the league and are loaded at WR and they are still trying to bring in any piece of trash QB they can just so they will have an excuse to draft this guy. The only scenario that I can see of him falling to 4 is if the lions trade down with another team that wants to snatch Peterson before the Browns pick and then the Browns take Brady Quinn. That is possible, but not probable and definitely not 55%.

 

Bottom line is if the Lions and Tampa workout a deal that sends the #4 pick, Simeon Rice and then a late first day pick or even an early 2nd day pick to the Lions, then in my opinion it would be more than worth it for the Lions. Move down two spots, by adding a pick and an experienced player that knows the system, and if they want they can still take Adams or Quinn (Assuming he falls) and now they are still getting the guy they wanted all along and now paying him #4 money instead of #2 money.

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The one thing you can count on is the Lions will screw it up.

 

they will trade down and avoid quarterback which is their most pressing need (its been their most pressing need for 40 years). they will suck in 2007 and Millen will finally get the axe (along with minions Marinelli/Martz ect) and hopefully the next guy will finally have some ability to construct a team.

(You would hope Bill Cowher, but they would have no shot at him)

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here's a fun link that details a number of specific rumors concerning the #2 pick. i've seen this one plastered on most lion message boards the past few days. posters vouch for this guy as some "insider," yada, yada, yada...but hey it's good entertainment:

 

http://sports-boards.net/forums/showthread.php?t=112112

 

1) Oakland has started talks with Russell

2) Oakland has contacted Cleveland about trading down to 3 on the assumption Cleveland would want Russell

3) 8 teams talking to Detroit is a slight exagerration, unless they've forgotten to report a contact. There are 7

4) Nobody wants to trade with Detroit until either Oakland signs their guy or Detroit is on the clock for fear someone would leapfrog them (makes sense)

5) The suitors are: Tampa, Atlanta, Washington, Miami, Houston, Carolina and Pittsburgh.

6) Atlanta has a firm offer of their 1st, 2 2nds, and a 1st next year for Detroit's 1 and 4 this year--supposing Calvin is there

7) Tampa has a firm offer of their 1st, 2 2nds and a 5th for Detroit's 1/4--supposing Calvin is there

8) Miami has a firm offer of a 1st, a 2nd (their late 2nd), a 3rd, and a first and 3rd next year--supposing Russell is there.

9) Washington is trying to move players of some sort along with their 1st

10) Pittsburgh is offering a 1st and a 2nd, and a 1st and 2nd next year--supposing Calvin is there

11) Houston...I don't know what they're offering, but they're eyeing Peterson

12) Don't know anything about Carolina. Couldn't scrounge anything up.

13) Detroit appears to have narrowed their guys down to 3--Adams, LeRon Landry, and Leon Hall

 

That Tampa/ATL deals seem to be most fitting for the leos. I'd probably prefer the ATL deal because of the #1 next year as well.

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The one thing you can count on is the Lions will screw it up.

 

they will trade down and avoid quarterback which is their most pressing need (its been their most pressing need for 40 years). they will suck in 2007 and Millen will finally get the axe (along with minions Marinelli/Martz ect) and hopefully the next guy will finally have some ability to construct a team.

(You would hope Bill Cowher, but they would have no shot at him)

 

sounds you got a sure-thing bet to lay down in vegas. sell your amc pacer, comic book collection, and clean out your closet and head to the pawn shop. let it all ride on the guarantee.

 

while you're at it, put a side bet on quinn and russell going to the hall of fame. you've been all over their jocks from day 1 as well.

 

1) Oakland has started talks with Russell

2) Oakland has contacted Cleveland about trading down to 3 on the assumption Cleveland would want Russell

3) 8 teams talking to Detroit is a slight exagerration, unless they've forgotten to report a contact. There are 7

4) Nobody wants to trade with Detroit until either Oakland signs their guy or Detroit is on the clock for fear someone would leapfrog them (makes sense)

5) The suitors are: Tampa, Atlanta, Washington, Miami, Houston, Carolina and Pittsburgh.

6) Atlanta has a firm offer of their 1st, 2 2nds, and a 1st next year for Detroit's 1 and 4 this year--supposing Calvin is there

7) Tampa has a firm offer of their 1st, 2 2nds and a 5th for Detroit's 1/4--supposing Calvin is there

8) Miami has a firm offer of a 1st, a 2nd (their late 2nd), a 3rd, and a first and 3rd next year--supposing Russell is there.

9) Washington is trying to move players of some sort along with their 1st

10) Pittsburgh is offering a 1st and a 2nd, and a 1st and 2nd next year--supposing Calvin is there

11) Houston...I don't know what they're offering, but they're eyeing Peterson

12) Don't know anything about Carolina. Couldn't scrounge anything up.

13) Detroit appears to have narrowed their guys down to 3--Adams, LeRon Landry, and Leon Hall

 

That Tampa/ATL deals seem to be most fitting for the leos. I'd probably prefer the ATL deal because of the #1 next year as well.

 

yeah, i like the tampa rumor here...could still get an elite prospect at 4 and get a high 2 to go along with that. but i wouldn't rule out a second trade-down if the lions swap the bucs.

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sounds you got a sure-thing bet to lay down in vegas. sell your amc pacer, comic book collection, and clean out your closet and head to the pawn shop. let it all ride on the guarantee.

 

while you're at it, put a side bet on quinn and russell going to the hall of fame. you've been all over their jocks from day 1 as well.

yeah, i like the tampa rumor here...could still get an elite prospect at 4 and get a high 2 to go along with that. but i wouldn't rule out a second trade-down if the lions swap the bucs.

 

Here's the best case scenario for both deals IMO:

 

Tampa deal:

 

Move down to #4 and possibly land Thomas or Adams. Use one of the 2nds on the QB prospects and the other two on a bona fide potential starting CB (Aaron Ross/McCauley) and MLB (David Harris) .

 

ATL deal:

 

Move down to #8 and possibly get Willis or Landry. See above for the 2nd round picks but insert a OT in favor of MLB should we get Willis.

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I'm not a Detroit fan, but I think I'd start attended church and praying that Oakland takes Russell #1 overall, then I draft CJ and absolutely ransom him, and Tampa would be my target. I could make myself way better if I trade CJ to Tampa for Joe Thomas, keep Kitna, trade McCown for maybe Jerry Porter of the Raiders, and use my boatload of early 2nd round picks to get Drew Stanton and an RB. Raiders get the Russell to Moss connection they desire, get Porter off their roster, get their interim QB in McCown. Detroit gets upgrades at a lot positions, and Tampa gets the best player in the draft. Everybody wins.

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