Bears sign Marty Booker and Brandon Lloyd

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

We are going to go 4-12 this year.

[Belushi 9]

Wow, didn't know about Lloyd. That's a pretty formidable WR corps.

 

I'm not sure there's 4 teams the Bears will be able to beat.

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

Wow, didn't know about Lloyd. That's a pretty formidable WR corps.

 

I'm not sure there's 4 teams the Bears will be able to beat.

Brutal. Our offense has actually got worse.....

[jocstrap 8]

I have some extra tennis balls you can put on the bottom of their walkers. Devin Hester really will be the bears leading yardage receiver this year.

[Bigtraine 24]

I have some extra tennis balls you can put on the bottom of their walkers.

 

Booker is old, but Lloyd is only 26.

[jocstrap 8]

Booker is old, but Lloyd is only 26.

 

 

I should have know better on Lloyd. This is only his 3rd team, isn't it

[Kilroy 0]

It wouldn't be quite as bad if the team had a worthwhile QB.....and if they didn't waste the #4 pick in '05 on Cedric Benson.....and then trade away Thomas Jones because they drafted Benson so high.....and then let Berrian leave via free agency....and well yea, I think you get the idea.

[philmckracken 3]

Wow. Just when I thought that the bears could not get any more pathetic, they do this. I started to think that they were deliberately trying to make it impossible for Grossman to succeed but then that would leave them with Orton. They must be targeting a qb in this or next year's draft.

[CurleyQ 0]

I agree about the Bears being awful this year. However, Berrian is not a $7M a year player, in any offense. He is better than any current WR on the Bears roster, but that is not saying much.

[Sweetness_34 0]

I do not see anything wrong with these moves. These are low risk, high reward signings....nothing more. This is not the same as Dan Snyder wasting millions. There is no guarantee Lloyd will even make the roster; he signed a one year deal worth pennies. He did play in Turner's O at college so there is a chance he can perform better than he has until now in the NFL. At best, both Booker and Lloyd will produce; at worst they will provide depth/insurance....and they will be dirt cheap, hence not stopping us from doing anything else. Bradley, Hester both provide the speed; Booker provides the possession WR potential; and Lloyd is just a hit-out-of-the-park risk with absolutely no cost. We will also be running a lot of 2 TE sets on O, with both Des Clark and Olsen quite capable of hauling in 40+ catches each, if not more.

 

Bears will still draft a young WR in the draft on day one or with the 3rd round picks (which is now day 2). And they will get OL and RB too with their 1st 4 picks in the top 3 rounds....the perfect year to do that since there is lots of talent at OL and RB this year going all the way into round 3.

 

Oh, and for those predicting 4 wins, you will be surprised. Bears went 7-9 last year and this was despite never been less than 3 points behind in any game in the 4th quarter (and leading in many of the games). If they had not turned the ball over as many times as they did against the kitties and if they had only stopped ADP from mking that game winning kickoff return, they would have won 10 games and made the playoffs. And this was despite all the injuries on D (something the packers did not have any of last year - rest assured, things will balance out this year) and the injuries on O to Benson, Reuben Brown, Fred Miller, Grossman, Greg Olsen etc. Oh, and the division is wide open considering there is no real QB in the entire division. Grossman has had more success than any other QB in the division. But, I do not expect most fans to be objective however....it is always more fun to whine I guess.

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

It wouldn't be quite as bad if the team had a worthwhile QB.....and if they didn't waste the #4 pick in '05 on Cedric Benson.....and then trade away Thomas Jones because they drafted Benson so high.....and then let Berrian leave via free agency....and well yea, I think you get the idea.

 

dont worry T jones only got 1300 yards last year, benson must of gotten more than that.... Oh wait

[Melissa Stark 1]

When did Matt Millen become the Bears GM

[Kilroy 0]

dont worry T jones only got 1300 yards last year, benson must of gotten more than that.... Oh wait

 

Yea, talk about a foolish move. Have a productive back and then trade him simply because the back-up was a high draft pick - not the best decision.

[Cuse9 128]

Mike Ditka has to be turning over in his grave!

[Sweetness_34 0]

Yea, talk about a foolish move. Have a productive back and then trade him simply because the back-up was a high draft pick - not the best decision.

 

Yeah because Thomas Jones is such a force in this league....oh wait, he had 0 TDs until the last game and a pathetic YPC all year. I cannot believe how people are so ignorant of facts sometimes.

 

TJ last year: 16 games; 310 carries; 1119 yards; 3.6 YPC; 1 TD; 28 receptions; 217 yards; 1 TD

 

Benson last year: 11 games; 197 carries; 678 yards; 3.4 YPC: 4 TDs; 17 receptions; 123 yards; 0 TD

Benson in 2006: 15 games; 157 carries; 647 yards; 4.1 YPC; 6 TDs; 8 receptions; 54 yards; 0 TD

 

Considering Benson was running well in the last 2 games last year before he went down to injury (see Seattle and Denver game logs), I do not get this TJ fuss....other than typical fan ignorance devoid of any facts.

[Cuse9 128]

Yeah because Thomas Jones is such a force in this league....oh wait, he had 0 TDs until the last game and a pathetic YPC all year. I cannot believe how people are so ignorant of facts sometimes.

 

TJ last year: 16 games; 310 carries; 1119 yards; 3.6 YPC; 1 TD; 28 receptions; 217 yards; 1 TD

 

Benson last year: 11 games; 197 carries; 678 yards; 3.4 YPC: 4 TDs; 17 receptions; 123 yards; 0 TD

Benson in 2006: 15 games; 157 carries; 647 yards; 4.1 YPC; 6 TDs; 8 receptions; 54 yards; 0 TD

 

Considering Benson was running well in the last 2 games last year before he went down to injury (see Seattle and Denver game logs), I do not get this TJ fuss....other than typical fan ignorance devoid of any facts.

You forgot one important factor. If it ain't broke....don't fix it. The Bears made it to the Super Bowl with Jones and he did nothing to prove he shouldn't have gotten his job back. The reason he didn't fair as well last year was because the QB situation for one. Pennington has about as many problems as Grossman and Clemens was just a rookie. Throw in the miserable OLine and you get what his results were.

 

After all the OLine moves the Jets made it will be very interesting to see how well he does this year. Of course Chad or Kellen must prove they are worthy of being a starter in the NFL.

 

Both have problems due to QB play but Jones has proven he can rise above that and Benson has not.

[Kilroy 0]

I do not get this TJ fuss....other than typical fan ignorance devoid of any facts.

 

It isn't about what he did last year. Its about what he did while he was the Bears starting RB. Like Cuse said, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

[Kopy 489]

When did Matt Millen become the Bears GM

 

Double M don't look so bad now, does he!

[swamp dog 0]

one of the all-time records for a team going from the penthouse to the crapper...how long did it take to go from "we're loaded for years and will make a run for the super bowl annually" to "god, we blow--one of the worst teams in the nfl."

 

i'll tell you: 12 focking months

[Sweetness_34 0]

one of the all-time records for a team going from the penthouse to the crapper...how long did it take to go from "we're loaded for years and will make a run for the super bowl annually" to "god, we blow--one of the worst teams in the nfl."

 

i'll tell you: 12 focking months

 

So 7-9 is now the crapper? If that is the case, what does it say about the lydowns who were throwing a parade because they came 7-9 last year.....Bears will be fine. Unlike the lydowns who will never be good. Deal with it.

[Sweetness_34 0]

You forgot one important factor. If it ain't broke....don't fix it. The Bears made it to the Super Bowl with Jones and he did nothing to prove he shouldn't have gotten his job back. The reason he didn't fair as well last year was because the QB situation for one. Pennington has about as many problems as Grossman and Clemens was just a rookie. Throw in the miserable OLine and you get what his results were.

 

After all the OLine moves the Jets made it will be very interesting to see how well he does this year. Of course Chad or Kellen must prove they are worthy of being a starter in the NFL.

 

Both have problems due to QB play but Jones has proven he can rise above that and Benson has not.

 

Obviously you are one of those ignorant fans too. Benson's line and QB play was far worse than what TJ got the year before when he was with the Bears. Also the Bears schedule was significantly harder last year than the year before & the Bears D had way too many injuries last year that forced us to throw the ball more and never get into any rhythm to run the ball. Again, typical ignorance.

[Sweetness_34 0]

one of the all-time records for a team going from the penthouse to the crapper...how long did it take to go from "we're loaded for years and will make a run for the super bowl annually" to "god, we blow--one of the worst teams in the nfl."

 

i'll tell you: 12 focking months

 

Hey moron: Seahags were 9-7 after their SB year; Eagles were 7-9 or worse after their SB year; Carolina was 7-9 or worse after their SB year; Saints last year were 8-8 or worse after their NFCC year; Pats missed the playoffs with a 9-7 or worse the year after they won their 1st SB.....so, clearly you just continue to show how stupid you really are ..... shocking

[Sweetness_34 0]

Double M don't look so bad now, does he!

 

[Kopy 489]

[swamp dog 0]

i have no idea what he's saying, but a certain someone seems to be mighty defensive given his 3-4 posts in a row in this thread.

 

the bears suck. deal with it.

[Bishop82 61]

Mike Ditka has to be turning over in his grave!

 

Blasphemy

[Phurfur 70]

Yeah because Thomas Jones is such a force in this league....oh wait, he had 0 TDs until the last game and a pathetic YPC all year. I cannot believe how people are so ignorant of facts sometimes.

 

TJ last year: 16 games; 310 carries; 1119 yards; 3.6 YPC; 1 TD; 28 receptions; 217 yards; 1 TD

 

Benson last year: 11 games; 197 carries; 678 yards; 3.4 YPC: 4 TDs; 17 receptions; 123 yards; 0 TD

Benson in 2006: 15 games; 157 carries; 647 yards; 4.1 YPC; 6 TDs; 8 receptions; 54 yards; 0 TD

 

Considering Benson was running well in the last 2 games last year before he went down to injury (see Seattle and Denver game logs), I do not get this TJ fuss....other than typical fan ignorance devoid of any facts.

 

Do you actually think Benson is a better back than TJ in the Bears offense?

[Belushi 9]

one of the all-time records for a team going from the penthouse to the crapper...how long did it take to go from "we're loaded for years and will make a run for the super bowl annually" to "god, we blow--one of the worst teams in the nfl."

 

i'll tell you: 12 focking months

 

Didn't the Bears do the same thing a few years ago when ###### Jauron was the coach?

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

I do not see anything wrong with these moves.

Homer if there ever was one. Lloyd may not cost much. But he won't do anything either. Booker is no where near the WR they need. That offense is putrid. Seriously, take off the rose colored glasses and see this for what it is. signings that won't do anything to improve the offense.

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

Hey moron: Seahags were 9-7 after their SB year; Eagles were 7-9 or worse after their SB year; Carolina was 7-9 or worse after their SB year; Saints last year were 8-8 or worse after their NFCC year; Pats missed the playoffs with a 9-7 or worse the year after they won their 1st SB.....so, clearly you just continue to show how stupid you really are ..... shocking

 

 

All those teams have a franchise QB though.

[Hurricane Ditka 0]

I do not see anything wrong with these moves. These are low risk, high reward signings....nothing more. This is not the same as Dan Snyder wasting millions. There is no guarantee Lloyd will even make the roster; he signed a one year deal worth pennies. He did play in Turner's O at college so there is a chance he can perform better than he has until now in the NFL. At best, both Booker and Lloyd will produce; at worst they will provide depth/insurance....and they will be dirt cheap, hence not stopping us from doing anything else. Bradley, Hester both provide the speed; Booker provides the possession WR potential; and Lloyd is just a hit-out-of-the-park risk with absolutely no cost. We will also be running a lot of 2 TE sets on O, with both Des Clark and Olsen quite capable of hauling in 40+ catches each, if not more.

 

Bears will still draft a young WR in the draft on day one or with the 3rd round picks (which is now day 2). And they will get OL and RB too with their 1st 4 picks in the top 3 rounds....the perfect year to do that since there is lots of talent at OL and RB this year going all the way into round 3.

 

Oh, and for those predicting 4 wins, you will be surprised. Bears went 7-9 last year and this was despite never been less than 3 points behind in any game in the 4th quarter (and leading in many of the games). If they had not turned the ball over as many times as they did against the kitties and if they had only stopped ADP from mking that game winning kickoff return, they would have won 10 games and made the playoffs. And this was despite all the injuries on D (something the packers did not have any of last year - rest assured, things will balance out this year) and the injuries on O to Benson, Reuben Brown, Fred Miller, Grossman, Greg Olsen etc. Oh, and the division is wide open considering there is no real QB in the entire division. Grossman has had more success than any other QB in the division. But, I do not expect most fans to be objective however....it is always more fun to whine I guess.

Sweetness,

 

Normally, I agree with you 100%. Not this time:

2007 Bears 7-9

QB- Same

RB- Same

WR- Worse

OL- Worse

TE-Same

DL- Same

LB- Same

S/CB-Same

ST- Worse

 

You can't say one positive thing about the free agency period for the Bears right now.

[dreadlocks34 0]

You can't say one positive thing about the free agency period for the Bears right now.

 

But many television personalities will point out over and over and over that they still have Urlacher and according to them, that will win them at least 23 games next season.

[Sweetness_34 0]

Sweetness,

 

Normally, I agree with you 100%. Not this time:

2007 Bears 7-9

QB- Same

RB- Same

WR- Worse

OL- Worse

TE-Same

DL- Same

LB- Same

S/CB-Same

ST- Worse

 

You can't say one positive thing about the free agency period for the Bears right now.

 

Hurricane - We lost Vasher for most of the important part of the season last year; we lost Mike Brown for all of last year; we lost Dusty D for al of last year; we lost back up safety Kevin Payne (who was backing Brown) for almost all of last year; we had Tommie H struggling with his injured leg most of the year; we had Urlacher struggling with a back issue - you really think the D will not improve from last year? That in itself is a positive right there....how can you say same for DL, Dbs if we do not suffer the same injuries as last year.

 

now on the O side, I agree Berrian is better than Booker and/or Lloyd; but once we lost Berrian to FA, I do not see anything wrong with these low cost moves. What is the downside to signing Booker and Lloyd cheap? If Bradley and Hester pan out, we should be fine. And we did lose Benson when he was showing signs of being good (see the series in the Sea and Denver games before he got injured), and we did lose Grossman after he started playing well in the 2nd half of the year. Also, Olsen will be more experienced going into this year.

[Sweetness_34 0]

Scouts say wide receiver Booker hasn't slowed down

By Dan Pompei | Tribune staff reporter

6:03 PM CST, March 8, 2008

 

Just what did the Bears get when they signed free-agent wide receiver Marty Booker?

 

According to those who have studied him, they are getting the exact receiver they traded to the Dolphins four years ago. That is to say the 31-year-old has not begun to show his age. And in some ways, Booker should be an upgrade over Muhsin Muhammad.

 

"He's a step better than Moose," one AFC pro personnel man said. "Moose is a better blocker. He brings more toughness and aggressiveness. But Marty runs better routes, and he's smoother. He gives you more in the passing game. His skill set has not diminished. But he has been nicked up a lot. He's always battling little nicks. I think he can be productive, but I don't see him as a No. 1 receiver."

 

Another AFC pro personnel director said he thought Booker was probably a couple of years away from starting to slow down.

 

Former Bears offensive coordinator Terry Shea worked with Booker in 2004 in Chicago and last year in Miami. Shea, now the quarterbacks coach for the Rams, said he thought Booker was emerging as the Dolphins' go-to receiver even before the team traded Chris Chambers. And he thinks Booker still can be a No. 1 receiver.

 

"He's a real quality guy with a couple of fine years ahead of him," Shea said. "He still has separation skills and plays fast."

 

More articles

 

Copyright © 2008, The Chicago Tribune

[Sweetness_34 0]

You can't say one positive thing about the free agency period for the Bears right now.

 

Hurricane - you seriously do not see signing Briggs at the Bears terms (aka not overpaying) a positive? The Bears D was top 5 in 2 of the last 3 years....the only time they were not stellar was last year when they had all the injuries I mentioned above. Why does signing other players considered a big deal in FA while re-signing your own players not? Bears have extended Vasher, Briggs, Tillman, etc the last few years, most of whom before they hit FA.

 

Here is a nice article about Briggs ....just an FYI

 

============

 

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March 8, 2008

Search ChicagoSports.com Web enhanced by Please register or log in Chicago BearsHome :: Bears

Lack of sacks costs Briggs

Linebackers who bring down QBs gobble up big money in free agency

Dan Pompei

 

As the market for Lance Briggs was drying up like morning dew in the midday sun, the linebacker might have been wondering what he did wrong.

 

The answer is nothing.

 

Several front-office men around the NFL believe Briggs' signing represented one of the best values in free agency.

 

Part of what happened to Briggs on the open market was driven by the circumstances of the teams, but most of what happened to Briggs was predictable given the history of linebacker compensation.

 

Linebackers who don't get sacks or are not Hall-of-Fame-caliber middle linebackers usually don't set the market with their contracts. Typically, the players who make the most money are those who change the game on third down or who make big plays.

 

The top six paid linebackers by average salary for the 2008 season:

 

1. Terrell Suggs, Ravens, $8 million. He's a hybrid defensive end who has had 22.5 sacks over the last two years and was hit with the franchise tag.

 

2. Ray Lewis, Ravens, $7.8 million. Canton awaits.

 

3. Julian Peterson, Seahawks, $7.7 million. Puts his hand in the dirt on third downs and has 19.5 sacks the last two years.

 

4. Brian Urlacher, Bears, $7.1 million. Centerpiece of the Bears' defense in the middle.

 

5. Adalius Thomas, Patriots, $7 million. He had 20 sacks in the two seasons before he signed a free-agent deal with New England.

 

6. Calvin Pace, Jets, $7 million. Was signed this year to rush the passer in a 3-4 defense.

 

The word on the street was Briggs was hoping to land a deal comparable to or better than the deal Thomas signed a year ago. But Briggs, as good as he is, didn't bring sacks to the table. So he had to "settle" for a $6 million per year average over six years, and $7 million less in guaranteed money than the $20 million target Thomas set.

 

As it stands, Briggs should be the 10th highest paid linebacker in the NFL next year.

 

There were supposed to be five teams interested in Briggs, but none of them was interested in paying him the type of money the Patriots paid Thomas.

 

Redskins owner Dan Snyder has been infatuated with Briggs since this time last year, and his team is believed to have made an attractive offer. But the word is Snyder's personnel department talked him out of offering too much.

 

The 49ers were looking at Briggs since early in the season, when they talked about trying to trade for him. But after losing Bryant Young to retirement and allowing Marques Douglas to leave, the 49ers' biggest priority was defensive end. They could sign only one premium free agent and they decided on defensive end Justin Smith—a sack producer—instead of Briggs.

 

The Saints would have been more interested in Briggs, but they were able to swing a trade with the Jets for Jonathan Vilma, a cheaper alternative.

 

The Bucs liked Briggs and thought he would be a great fit in their defense, but they weren't going to pay him like Thomas.

 

The Browns also thought highly of Briggs but spent their money on defensive linemen Corey Williams and Shaun Rogers.

 

So as it turned out, the Bears read the market perfectly. Briggs' best option was to return to the defense where he knew he would excel, and to the team that needed him more than it needed any free agent.

 

 

 

Spending spree

In terms of first-year money and average per year, free-agent deals are up 15 percent from contracts one year ago. The salary cap has gone up only 7 percent.

 

Within the first four days of free agency, 21 players signed deals that each included at least $10 million in guaranteed money. So that tells you there have been some crazy contracts. The craziest so far:

 

1. Javon Walker, WR, Raiders. He has missed 23 games with injuries over the last three years and was signed to a six-year, $55 million deal with $16 million guaranteed. The $27 million he will be paid over the first three years of his contract is the same amount the Patriots will pay Randy Moss.

 

2. Calvin Pace, OLB, Jets. Known as a bust in Arizona, he was given $42 million over six years, including $21.5 million guaranteed.

 

3. Gibril Wilson, S, Raiders. He has not been a difference-maker, but he received $39 million over six years with $15.4 guaranteed.

 

4. Damien Woody, OL, Jets. He was part of a line that gave up 54 sacks last year, but he received $25.5 million over five years and $10 million in guaranteed money.

 

5. Bernard Berrian, WR, Vikings. Bidding from the Raiders drove up the price to $42 million over six years with $16 million guaranteed.

 

dpompei@tribune.com

 

more in /sports/football/bears

[Sweetness_34 0]

Do you actually think Benson is a better back than TJ in the Bears offense?

 

Honestly, Phurfur, does it really matter what I think about who is better or worse? But look at what Benson did when he had the same OL that TJ ran with in 2006, and the Bears D of 2006 (and yes, having a good D helps RBs more than one would think....better D = closer games = more rushing opportunities).

 

In 2006:

 

Benson ran for 60 yards + 1 TD on 9 carries against Minnesota, which was a top 5 run D that year.

Benson ran for 46 yards + 1 TD on 10 carries against NE, which was a top 5 run D that year.

Benson ran for 109 yards on 13 carries against GB in the last game of the year, when most of the Bears were rested or not interested in playing on New Years eve.

 

Overall he had a 4.1 YPC and 6 TDs despite limited opportunities.

 

Hence, it is a little premature to make any judgments one way or another on Benson i.e. the jury is still out on him. The Bears OL did regress the past year; it was much better in 2006 than in 2007....look at the QB sacks/hurries stats and you will see the difference there too. Fred Miller was injured most of the year, Reuben Brown was out for most of the year and we just did not get good production from the OL throughout the year. So who is to say for sure that TJ would have done any better given those circumstances; and given the Bears D regressed due to injuries, which made the Bears play a lot of catch up (i.e passing) late in games.

 

Lets see what we get from Benson next year, if the OL improves (we should get an upgrade in the draft given this year the draft is loaded with OL). Also, Bears will plan to get competition for Benson, via draft or FA. That will help the running game too IMO. OL are huge for any RB....look at what happened to people like SHaun A, Larry Johnson etc once the OL lost it's studs.

 

Finally, see this video and judge for your self. You will see the TD runs against Pats in 2006, against Minny in 2006 and the runs against Seattle in 2007 (when he was finally coming along in 2007 before he got injured in the next game after a very good run against the Broncos).....again, judge for yourself.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFc60qlIdg

[wienerpop 0]

i feel great about adding marty as my fifth receiver late last season

[philmckracken 3]

I do not see anything wrong with these moves. These are low risk, high reward signings....nothing more. This is not the same as Dan Snyder wasting millions. There is no guarantee Lloyd will even make the roster; he signed a one year deal worth pennies. He did play in Turner's O at college so there is a chance he can perform better than he has until now in the NFL. At best, both Booker and Lloyd will produce; at worst they will provide depth/insurance....and they will be dirt cheap, hence not stopping us from doing anything else. Bradley, Hester both provide the speed; Booker provides the possession WR potential; and Lloyd is just a hit-out-of-the-park risk with absolutely no cost. We will also be running a lot of 2 TE sets on O, with both Des Clark and Olsen quite capable of hauling in 40+ catches each, if not more.

 

Bears will still draft a young WR in the draft on day one or with the 3rd round picks (which is now day 2). And they will get OL and RB too with their 1st 4 picks in the top 3 rounds....the perfect year to do that since there is lots of talent at OL and RB this year going all the way into round 3.

 

Oh, and for those predicting 4 wins, you will be surprised. Bears went 7-9 last year and this was despite never been less than 3 points behind in any game in the 4th quarter (and leading in many of the games). If they had not turned the ball over as many times as they did against the kitties and if they had only stopped ADP from mking that game winning kickoff return, they would have won 10 games and made the playoffs. And this was despite all the injuries on D (something the packers did not have any of last year - rest assured, things will balance out this year) and the injuries on O to Benson, Reuben Brown, Fred Miller, Grossman, Greg Olsen etc. Oh, and the division is wide open considering there is no real QB in the entire division. Grossman has had more success than any other QB in the division. But, I do not expect most fans to be objective however....it is always more fun to whine I guess.

 

People are not just ripping who the bears actually signed. It's also who they didn't sign. Signing Marty Booker and Brandon LLoyd represents a real lack of effort/will/desire (??) to get a top reciever. I do understand that signing a top wr loses some of its luster when there is no qb to get him the ball, so I don't blame the bears for not breaking the bank on one at this point. Just don't get excited over or overrate Booker and Lloyd. Essentially they are just 2 warm bodies.

 

As far as the bears' 2007 season goes, you've got 2 'ifs' and several injury excuses in there. Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Who is not being objective? We could play the 'if' game all day. If Devin Hester hadn't returned so many kickoff for tds, the bears' record would have been worse. If the bears hadn't had a creampuff schedule in '06, they wouldn't have made it anywhere near the superbowl, and on and on and on and on and on. That's pointless.