If you are against universal healthcare...why?

[GettnHuge 2]

I'm against the price tag of 40 quadrillion dollars.

[Mike FF Today 723]

Uh, did our posts get moderated? :tinfoil:

 

Yes, and if you continue the childish name-calling I won't have to worry about moderating your posts anymore.

[Toro 1]

Yes, and if you continue the childish name-calling I won't have to worry about moderating your posts anymore.

 

Got it. Glad to see it happen.

[Rattlesnake 0]

It will drag the quality of care down, that's my biggest reason. That's another reason I support Obama, however. I believe that we morally have an obligation to make sure that kids can get to a doctor if they need to. They can't help it if their parents are too poor to provide it for them. Providing it for all, however......I just think it's a bad idea.

[ERZER 0]

It will drag the quality of care down, that's my biggest reason. That's another reason I support Obama, however. I believe that we morally have an obligation to make sure that kids can get to a doctor if they need to. They can't help it if their parents are too poor to provide it for them. Providing it for all, however......I just think it's a bad idea.

 

 

I agree and think that is an admirable idea, "...make sure that kids can get to a doctor...". The only problem is, who is going to make sure the kids even get the meds? I'm not saying all "poor" people are bad etc., it's just that we have to face reality that someone is going to take the medicine and it may not always be the kids.

 

What I would rather see this politicians do, is truly focus on this country and it's immediate neighbors to make sure we have less poor in this part of the world (all of the America's) rather than band-aid fixes like taxing the hell out of those who have been successful. All that does is cause an inflationary action by forcing businesses to raise their prices to meet the demands of the employees who want more money to offset the tax hikes. I'm not excusing the gouging that goes on, but lets face it, the only thing the politicians are going to do is take your money to pay for others.

[remote controller 143]

I live in a province with universal health care. Public health care costs a fortune. We're currently spending over 40% of our program spending on it and it will expand dramatically as boomers age. The problem is that getting more of the private sector involved won't solve much of anything because the major costs moving forward will be in treating old agers with debilitating diseases and the private sector doesn't want to touch that. They want to take over the low cost slice of the system, which doesn't solve the problem. I have no idea what the solution is or whether there is even such a solution. The system, whether public, private or mixed, will eventually cost too much for society and several people won't be getting treated. To give you an idea, there are no family physicians open to new patients in the region where I live. The result of this is that I have to drive close to 3 hours to see my doctor and a little over two to see our pediatrician. If I don't want to drive that much, I have to go to a hospital emergency for things like ear infections. And it won't get better anytime soon. To keep costs down, doctor salaries (i.e. how much work they can do and bill government) have been controlled meaning that doctors leave the province for other regions to make more money.

 

It is a total clusterfock. I don't think universal health care is sustainable.

What he said!

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

I live in a province with universal health care. Public health care costs a fortune. We're currently spending over 40% of our program spending on it and it will expand dramatically as boomers age. The problem is that getting more of the private sector involved won't solve much of anything because the major costs moving forward will be in treating old agers with debilitating diseases and the private sector doesn't want to touch that. They want to take over the low cost slice of the system, which doesn't solve the problem. I have no idea what the solution is or whether there is even such a solution. The system, whether public, private or mixed, will eventually cost too much for society and several people won't be getting treated. To give you an idea, there are no family physicians open to new patients in the region where I live. The result of this is that I have to drive close to 3 hours to see my doctor and a little over two to see our pediatrician. If I don't want to drive that much, I have to go to a hospital emergency for things like ear infections. And it won't get better anytime soon. To keep costs down, doctor salaries (i.e. how much work they can do and bill government) have been controlled meaning that doctors leave the province for other regions to make more money.

 

It is a total clusterfock. I don't think universal health care is sustainable.

 

Forgot to add that waiting times at the main hospitals near where I live are often at least 9 hours. Thank god there is a smaller hospital I can go to where waiting times are usually much shorter than that.

 

Well said.

[Me_2006 14]

Yes, and if you continue the childish name-calling I won't have to worry about moderating your posts anymore.

 

I have no idea what was said, and I can't imagine what it was that was bad enough to be moderated. I don't think I've ever seen anything censored on this board. Whatever you guys said...wow.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Yes, and if you continue the childish name-calling I won't have to worry about moderating your posts anymore.

I, for one, want to hear the childish name-calling.

 

What did I miss?

[Mike FF Today 723]

Back on topic please....

[gratefulted 14]

I have to pay for health insurance.

I don't get it, you claim you got your knee f'd while in the Marines, which means you have VA benefits, I use the VA and don't pay anything, I like you have been injured at work and I get those injuries treated through workers comp for free, forever, you shouldn't have to pay for anything.

[gocolts 300]

I don't get it, you claim you got your knee f'd while in the Marines, which means you have VA benefits, I use the VA and don't pay anything, I like you have been injured at work and I get those injuries treated through workers comp for free, forever, you shouldn't have to pay for anything.

Even though I was hurt on the job driving a lift truck backwards for over 7 years, the idiot doctor said I could no longer work BUT he did not want to get involved with any workers compensation. I pressed the doctor for help and he said bring in a form and he would fill it out. I was relieved. Then, he charged me 25 bucks to fill out the form BTW, he filled out the form so my employer would be forced to fire me on the spot when I turned in the form. He wrote on the form that I can no longer work, so that forced my employer to fire me because the doctor said I could no longer work. I would have to get a release from the same doctor to be able to go back, something the doctor wouldn't do. I got shafted in a big way and have been struggling for many years because of that. I had a more than 2 year span where I had zero dollars of income.

 

The USMC gave some BS that my condition had to be preexisting and there for, nothing from them. The USMC crap happened first BTW.

 

[Chronic Husker 85]

Saddening.

[gocolts 300]

Even though I was hurt on the job driving a lift truck backwards for over 7 years, the idiot doctor said I could no longer work BUT he did not want to get involved with any workers compensation. I pressed the doctor for help and he said bring in a form and he would fill it out. I was relieved. Then, he charged me 25 bucks to fill out the form BTW, he filled out the form so my employer would be forced to fire me on the spot when I turned in the form. He wrote on the form that I can no longer work, so that forced my employer to fire me because the doctor said I could no longer work. I would have to get a release from the same doctor to be able to go back, something the doctor wouldn't do. I got shafted in a big way and have been struggling for many years because of that. I had a more than 2 year span where I had zero dollars of income.

 

The USMC gave some BS that my condition had to be preexisting and there for, nothing from them. The USMC crap happened first BTW.

 

To add to the workers compensation part, I was one of many that got focked over by that company I use to work for. Many people developed back problems and not a single person got anything whatsoever by workman's compensation. I live in Indiana and Indiana is at-will-employment. Meaning anybody could be fired for damn near anything without recourse. I went to the doctors to try and fight it, as did many, to no avail.

[gratefulted 14]

Go Colts, if you have a honorable discharge the VA has to take you in no matter what has happened to you, go to the local VA and sign up, it'll take 6 months or so (they'll tell you a couple of weeks), once in the system the care you get isn't all that bad, at least its alot better than I thought it would be.

[cortezthekiller303 0]

To add to the workers compensation part, I was one of many that got focked over by that company I use to work for. Many people developed back problems and not a single person got anything whatsoever by workman's compensation. I live in Indiana and Indiana is at-will-employment. Meaning anybody could be fired for damn near anything without recourse. I went to the doctors to try and fight it, as did many, to no avail.

 

How were you "focked over?" You went to the doctor for your back problem, it wasnt deemed a compensable injury, and thats it, end of file. You "fought it" and lost.

 

The one thing I hate about people like you is that you feel like once you get that first injury and disability, then all of your pains and ailments after that should just be a matter of filing the paperwork for more money.

 

And Indiana being an at-will state doesnt mean anything. So is the rest of the country.

[BLS 314]

What ever happened to being responsible for yourself?

 

It's bad enough that I have to have MY MONEY STOLEN from me by the Federal Government, so that I can support some fuckin loser who won't go get a job. I realize that not everyone on some assistance is just lazy, so don't go there.

 

It is not my responsibility to take care of someone else's kids, their healthcare or anything else.

But our society says we have to, and our government says we have to, and they'll "manage" it all.

 

Right.

 

Mandating people have insurance is wrong too. It's not the governments job to tell me how to live my life. If I get hurt and don't have insurance...guess who's focked....Me. I could end up paying for years on something. Of course there are those who don't pay, and that happens in every business out there. It's called a loss, and it's a writeoff for the business.

 

The answer is to get the government OUT of healthcare altogether. No stupid state restrictions, no restrictions of Canadian medications, etc. Let people take care of themselves and let them have access to all possible treatments, choices and markets.

 

The market will dictate the prices and make it affordable for everyone. For those who cannot afford it, many hospitals could go back to offering charity work.

 

We've gone BACKWARDS in the last 40 years when it comes to how we manage healthcare. Get the government out of the way and let the markets decide.

 

I for one will NOT accept government healthcare. I had 2 uncles go to the VA hospitals. They are freakin hacks and nothing better.

[gocolts 300]

How were you "focked over?" You went to the doctor for your back problem, it wasnt deemed a compensable injury, and thats it, end of file. You "fought it" and lost.

 

The one thing I hate about people like you is that you feel like once you get that first injury and disability, then all of your pains and ailments after that should just be a matter of filing the paperwork for more money.

 

And Indiana being an at-will state doesnt mean anything. So is the rest of the country.

 

 

Someone asked me about and I told them. I am not on here whining about it and I certainly don't think the way you suggested I do. After knowing this much about me and knowing I am a conservative how you can come to that conclusion about me is crazy. I already said

You're right, I can't afford cable TV. I probably would save money on universal health care, but I am thinking about the bigger picture and not what would just benefit me personally.

 

I am sure there is plenty to slam me on but this ain't one them.

[thorshammer 0]

Bold assumption. See subprime lending crisis.

it was in star trek

please, MR Alias, i missed that....

 

and i have seen lots of treck

[ERZER 0]

Go Colts, if you have a honorable discharge the VA has to take you in no matter what has happened to you, go to the local VA and sign up, it'll take 6 months or so (they'll tell you a couple of weeks), once in the system the care you get isn't all that bad, at least its alot better than I thought it would be.

 

 

Better yet, go to one of the local "Service" reps - disabled American vets, VFW, etc., and see if they will take up your case. If you leave it just to the VA facility, you may get lucky, but the service reps have people who work with you to get you what you deserve.

 

As to the doctor who put on the form you can't work, this sounds to me like a potential law suit. I guess it depends on your state laws, but if you were fired for being injured, I would think they would be held responsible for workman's comp.

 

Good luck.

[Know Doubt 0]

Don't think I saw it mentioned but universal health care also doesn't spur innovation. If you take away the incentives (i.e. $$) for labs, universities, and pharmas for R&D because the Gov is going to regulate the pricing of whatever cure that is created anyway, they are less likely to want to innovate.

 

Like a couple of others have mentioned, most English can't stand it. I happen to work for a British owned company and work with many Brits locally and abroad. Their system is a nightmare. On top of the fact that their taxes are pushing 40% due to universal health care for the UK, some still turn it down and pay out of pocket for private care. Even in a country with universal health care like England, providers (doctors, some hospitals, etc.) still have the option to accept only privately funded health care. Those also (no coincidence) happen to be the practices that have the best physicians and specialists. Its still a market driven economy and the best providers can still live very well without adding their names to their government's list of a provider that accepts universal health care.

 

The reality is Barrack or Hillary will use universal health care as a differentiator in the national election. However, as well all know, it takes Congress to write the law. Not sure it will ever see the light of day in our lifetime - especially in today's economy.

 

 

What is this 40% you're talking about?

I had a UK job last year for a while and they only took out 18.5%.

We also are paying 18.5% on the interest we earn at our bank?

 

 

I have NHS and use it periodically for my kidney disease. It's not that special and we notice that our Dr. always seems wary of our questions, looks at his beeper or the clock on the wall. He does help when I have bad spells though and pills that would cost huge $$$ at the base pharmacy are $13/6.50 quid thru NHS.

In summary of my experiences with NHS, the doctors aren't too personable(when we told him I felt well enough to go to Jordan he just looked at me deadpan and said, "Have fun".) but the persciption part just focking rox.

I have talked with people saying they've had to wait 9 months for say gallbladder surgery, but they also mentioned if you wanted to pay for the surgery you could get it sooner.

 

 

[needshelp 0]

First off, anyone can walk into a hospital and get healthcare. They have to take you in if you walk through an emergency room door.

Not true. Only "public" hospitals have to take you. "private" hospitals do not.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

Not true. Only "public" hospitals have to take you. "private" hospitals do not.

 

link? I think you're wrong.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Anything government related is done with a higher cost, lower level of service and with more bureaucracy. Keep it private.

[cmh6476 1,024]

since when does it become a governments obligation to provide healthcare to its citizenry? The government's job should be to see that the atmosphere is there for the private sector to make the best conditions possible for all to afford or get healthcare, but the government shouldnt become the provider.

[Birdseed 1]

I don't like poor people.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Against.

 

If you don't fix the problem with lawsuits in the country, no universal healthcare system is feasible.

[remote controller 143]

Against.

 

If you don't fix the problem with lawsuits in the country, no universal healthcare system is feasible.

Limit the amounts on the lawsuits and reduce the ridiculous fines on Doctors, and the Nation still can't afford to carry dead weight.

[GutterBoy 2,899]

The system is clearly broken, but handing it to the govt will not fix it.

[KSB2424 3,148]

I don't like poor people.

This is the correct answer.

[Cruzer 1,995]

bcoz we're the freaking U.S.A., not canada for gosh sakes.

[cmh6476 1,024]

The system is clearly broken, but handing it to the govt will not fix it.

correct, people who think the federal government getting involved, or turning struggling prorgams over to the govt to fix is the fix-all for all issues are clearly mis-informed.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Limit the amounts on the lawsuits and reduce the ridiculous fines on Doctors, and the Nation still can't afford to carry dead weight.

no, but it would make things cheaper for me....

 

Not that I pay much. $24.95 a month for family of 4 for med/dental with no co-pay. Everything is free. I gots me a good yob.

Well, dental only covers 80%. But the medical is free.

[Nassles 0]

If you are all going to be paying to support the banking/sub-prime situation, why not healthcare?

[Baby Jesus 0]

Go Colts, if you have a honorable discharge the VA has to take you in no matter what has happened to you, go to the local VA and sign up, it'll take 6 months or so (they'll tell you a couple of weeks), once in the system the care you get isn't all that bad, at least its alot better than I thought it would be.

Patiently waiting.

[Blitzen 0]

If you are all going to be paying to support the banking/sub-prime situation, why not healthcare?

 

Because healthcare will be much better run by the private sector. I mean look at the bang up job they're doing with banks. Oh wait...

[cmh6476 1,024]

Because healthcare will be much better run by the private sector. I mean look at the bang up job they're doing with banks. Oh wait...

we dont want to be teh socialists that canada is

[cmh6476 1,024]

also the govt shouldnt be fixing the sub-prime mess, let the people that took on the bad paper eat it

[Blitzen 0]

we dont want to be teh socialists that canada is

 

I'm neither a fan of unbridled socialism or unbridled capitalism. I have worked in the private, public and voluntary sectors up here and inefficiency is FAR from being an exclusivity of the public sector. A bad manager is a bad manager regardless of the sector he/she works in. My point was that the system is unsustainable, regardless of who will run it. It is a political pipe dream, like ridding the world of drugs, pron, terrorism or Giants Fan.

[Nassles 0]

we dont want to be teh socialists that canada is

 

When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.

 

~ Helder Camara

 

 

Civilization IV rocks!!!