Eliminating the Def and Kicker

[kgeorge78 0]

Does anyone do this?

This year in a pretty solid 12 teamer (8th year), I'm thinking about totally eliminating the kicker and def position.

Year after year, I find them to be luck. Often times, a waiver wire pick is wasted on a kicker or D.

 

The starting lineup would be:

 

1qb

2rb

3wrs

1te

1flex

 

Scoring sys

all tds 6 points

0.5 ppr

10 yards rush / rec. 1 point 25 yards passing 1 point

5 point bonus at 100 yard rush / rec, 300 yard passing

5 additional point bonus at 175 yards rush / rec, 375 yards passing

 

I just fell like the kicker is a joke. Who cares if Jason Hanson has points FGs than Elam. I don't care. It requires no school. Doing this, I'll be able to cut the bench to 4, making the draft 12 rounds only. This will leave some decent players on the FA / WW list making some steals possible.

 

Anyone else?

I did IDP last year, not as fun as I thought.

[Chargersin08 0]

Bad idea if you ask me. I keep em in my league and then draft them in the last 4 rounds (roster requirement: 2 of each)

 

Every year one person reaches for the top defense and starts a defense run, and another person reaches for the top kicker and starts a kicker run. All the while, I improve my RB and WR depth.

[t.j 35]

I played in a league with no kickers and didn't miss them one bit.

Team defense sucks too.

IDP is the shizzle, though.

[Super Cubs 132]

Sounds to me like you need to put a limit on the waivers to prevent whoring. It will also give the positions some substance.

 

It also sound like you did not do to well with you def or kicker last year.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

Take a league vote, rather than a forum vote, i would be mad if the rules in my league were decided by strangers that i didnt know. I think having either a team defense, or idp is essential though.

[Ras66not99 0]

I played in a league with no kickers and didn't miss them one bit.

Team defense sucks too.

IDP is the shizzle, though.

Totally Agree on the IDP.... I've been doing IDP since I started playing fantasy football in the late 80's....I couldn't imagine playing fantasy football without it/them.... Defensive players are just as much a part of the game as offensive players... give them some respect !!!!!!

 

 

ABout kickers to the original poster.......... I'd love to get rid of them in my long standing IDP Dynasty.... i was thinking about taking it to a vote during our Summer meetings.... I've tried to tell/explain to a lot of my owners that it's pretty much pure luck and broke it down as a whole (basically the team that had the highest kicker points for the year was only like 20 points better than the team that was the worst) so it's pretty much a wash if you look at it that way.... the only part they play is when a kicker explodes one week for 4 or 5 Fg's and causes a overturn in a head to head game.... kind of stupid and totally lucky IMO.... in fact that scumbag Mason Crosby dropped 19 points against me to knock me out of the playoffs just last year (actually lost by 1 point).... who knows maybe we'll get rid of them all together, but I personally think they're useless..

[FlaHawker 24]

Every year one person reaches for the top defense and starts a defense run, and another person reaches for the top kicker and starts a kicker run. All the while, I improve my RB and WR depth.

Sounds like a great league

[jocstrap 8]

Bad idea if you ask me. I keep em in my league and then draft them in the last 4 rounds (roster requirement: 2 of each)

Every year one person reaches for the top defense and starts a defense run, and another person reaches for the top kicker and starts a kicker run. All the while, I improve my RB and WR depth.

 

 

A defensive run in the 7th round?

 

A kicker run in the 10th or 11th?

 

 

When you say run, do you mean like 4 go in 1 round?

[jocstrap 8]

I could handle booting the kicker. I almost think this is logical.

 

I do love the defensive aspect where you get 1 pt sack, fumble, int, def/st td's, safeties, and so forth. This actually can account for your weekly total 7-10%ish in the higher defensive scoring leagues. Not to mention you get to route for your team every defensive snap as well.

 

IDP - I have never played this format in my upcoming 12th year of FF. By the sounds of the guru's, this is the way to go. I might be sold after 1 year.

[Chargersin08 0]

A defensive run in the 7th round?

 

A kicker run in the 10th or 11th?

When you say run, do you mean like 4 go in 1 round?

Yea, my league is kinda fickle like that.

[jocstrap 8]

Yea, my league is kinda fickle like that.

 

 

abuse them while you can

[Chargersin08 0]

abuse them while you can

Most definitely, I push for new teams every year.

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

Sounds more like change for the sake of change than an improvement.

[Dr Hook 6]

You down with IDP

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah you know me

[RoadLizard 73]

I could handle booting the kicker. I almost think this is logical.

 

I do love the defensive aspect where you get 1 pt sack, fumble, int, def/st td's, safeties, and so forth. This actually can account for your weekly total 7-10%ish in the higher defensive scoring leagues. Not to mention you get to route for your team every defensive snap as well.

 

IDP - I have never played this format in my upcoming 12th year of FF. By the sounds of the guru's, this is the way to go. I might be sold after 1 year.

 

Dont get involved in the IDP circle-jerk too fast. Its NOT all its cracked up to be and it certainly does NOT solve as many issues as it appears to. Lets review:

 

- With IDPs, there are many WASTED defensive plays and TDs because if the actual player that made the play/TD isnt rostered or started then no points can be awarded.... hence wasted fantasy points. Kind of frustrating, IMO.

 

- You think offensive players have to share playing time...wait till you see your fat D-Lineman huffing and puffing after two plays sitting on the bench when you need them the most. Linebackers are solid for playing time and maybe the best cornerbacks are too...but most guys get rotated in and out more than you think. In other words, defensive player by-committee is just as bad as it is for RB by committee, for example.

 

- For a lot of people its just too much to track and fock with. I know, if they are lazy then they shouldnt be playing serious FF, but lets be honest, it DOES require more screwing around, tracking injuries, bye weeks, etc, etc.

 

Hey, if your league uses it and everyone likes it - great...keep going and dont look back. However, like anything, there are two sides to the story and you have to look carefully at what will change in your league and what the good/bad consequences will be.

[Joey Gladstone 33]

I think kickers have their place in FF...kind of the cherry on top position. Giving them bonus points for distance, and penalties for misses makes it kind of interesting.

 

Team defenses have never really done it for me. IDP would be the natural remedy, but I have always been too lazy to get it implemented in our league. It's not just researching how the individual players fit into your scoring system, but also trying to figure out where to draft them amongst the offensive players, and how to get maximum value for where you draft them.

 

Maybe I'll read a few articles this year and bring it up when our league meets this summer.

[CurleyQ 0]

Why not change the scoring, so the positions are a little more valuable?

[jocstrap 8]

Dont get involved in the IDP circle-jerk too fast. Its NOT all its cracked up to be and it certainly does NOT solve as many issues as it appears to. Lets review:

 

- With IDPs, there are many WASTED defensive plays and TDs because if the actual player that made the play/TD isnt rostered or started then no points can be awarded.... hence wasted fantasy points. Kind of frustrating, IMO.

 

- You think offensive players have to share playing time...wait till you see your fat D-Lineman huffing and puffing after two plays sitting on the bench when you need them the most. Linebackers are solid for playing time and maybe the best cornerbacks are too...but most guys get rotated in and out more than you think. In other words, defensive player by-committee is just as bad as it is for RB by committee, for example.

 

- For a lot of people its just too much to track and fock with. I know, if they are lazy then they shouldnt be playing serious FF, but lets be honest, it DOES require more screwing around, tracking injuries, bye weeks, etc, etc.

 

Hey, if your league uses it and everyone likes it - great...keep going and dont look back. However, like anything, there are two sides to the story and you have to look carefully at what will change in your league and what the good/bad consequences will be.

 

You make a very good point here road lizard. I honestly don't keep up with defenses enough, to play IDP leagues. Wrap the whole defensive unit up into one simple scoring system, and just give me the whole team. This is good enough for me.

[phlegmish 4]

Why not change the scoring, so the positions are a little more valuable?

 

 

My league scoring factors distance for K for this purpose.

 

3 < 40yds

6 40-50yds

10 50+

 

DT covers all special teams as well so there are no double dipped players (WR scoring on punt return etc.). It has kept us pretty clean over the years. I basically feel that as long as your league has clear and concise rules there is less chance for bickering and whining. You can't cover every thing and there is no wrong way to enjoy FFL unless you join a league and don't pay attention to the rules BEFORE THE DRAFT.

 

We also did away with negative pts 17 years ago for all players but re-address every 3-4 years at draft. It seemed punitive and hard to pin it on the players since sometimes it was someone else causing the miss (fumbled snap), INT (stone handed WR) or whatever. And I've yet to see negative points in the NFL so I personally hate that particular concept and won't play in league that use it......

[kgeorge78 0]

I had IDP in my other league last year. It's ok but almost kicker like and much luck. The best CBs dont get the pics because they are not thrown to. Top DL get 2x all the time and don't get the sacs. Seems like some mediocore ML leads the league or is at the top yearly

[Timinator 0]

I like the kickers precisely because it's a wildcard position that distracts some owners. It tests the emotional balance of owners who might tend to panic. I targeted Mason Crosby last year and ended up getting the best kicker in the NFL on waivers before Week 1.

 

Team defense is the way I like to go. IDPs are strange since the talented guys don't always end up with the stats even if they make the other player's stats better. Defense, to me, is more of a team effort. I do like awarding points for limited yardage and points too. That way a fluke TD doesn't automatically push a mediocre D way above a stout one.

 

At the end of the day, the rules should be voted on by your own league. Whatever most owners believe is fun will make it a better league.

[montana 89]

Personally, I like having PK's & DEF in my league(s). Usually (as mentioned earlier), you have a run on them around the 9th round (give or take a round) & I add more depth at the skilled positions (rb/wr/te/qb). Like most/all of you, I usually draft my pk's & def in the final 3-5 rounds, and even then, I usually only draft one of each - cuz i know i'll hit the ww after wk. 1 & just fill my line up with best match up per wk (kickers/def). i've beeen doing this for years & its worked just fine so far (only finished outta the top 3 three times since 1994 in my big money league). last year, we tweeked the scoring for kickers & it still was a wash. we gave higher bonueses for distance & it still was a joke in the end. i'm not sure what to do at this point....stay with it or do away with them (pk's/def).

 

kinda along with this topic - what are your feelings with negative points? we've always used them, but a friend (co-commish) b!tched last year cuz his complaint was about negative points for qbs that throw INTs. His argement (a good one IMO) was that it's not always the qb's fault on INTs = wr's fell, batted ball at the line, te dropped the ball & the db snagged it in mid-air, etc... you get the picture. He makes a valid arguement here & he is right to a certain degree. BUT, there is no way for us (as commishes to be able to seperate the ligit INTs from the other player mistakes. He also used our negative scoring for missed FGs - if it's missed, then obviously it counts against the PK. But what about a block or partial block, causing a miss - is it really the pk's fault that it was partial blocked because a Def player got thru the line? not sure what we're gonna do with this, but i am curoius if other commishes out there have ever thought about this & if so, whatcha do?

[49ER MAN 0]

I don't mind the K and DEF/ST as for me, at least, it's 2 positions I don't spend a lot of time studying. We've had our league for 10 years now and the last 3 have been done via auction. Since we've gone to the auction format in 2005, I've spent a total of $2 on 3 kickers and they've all finished in the top 5:

 

2005: Jay Feely (free agent)

2006: Nate Kaeding $1

2007: Stephen Gostkowski $1

 

Based on these findings, I'll never know why people draft or spend big money on a supposed elite kicker. In 2007, someone in our league spent $4 each on both Vinatieri and Kaeding and how did that turn out? Not so well.

 

One team spent $15 on Chicago's D/ST and another team spent $11 on Baltimore and only one of them had a decent season and it certainly wasn't the Ravens. At least in our league, you can always find a D/ST coming out of nowhere to be in the top 5.

[jaguilar2549 0]

You might consider doing what my league does. We are a basic redraft league, but we combine the Kicker and Def/ST. Basiclly, if you want Rackers then you must draft AZ def. The scoring does not change it is just combined and it completly changes the strategy of the draft because a DEF/ST/K can bring in a lot of points.

[49ER MAN 0]

You might consider doing what my league does. We are a basic redraft league, but we combine the Kicker and Def/ST. Basiclly, if you want Rackers then you must draft AZ def. The scoring does not change it is just combined and it completly changes the strategy of the draft because a DEF/ST/K can bring in a lot of points.

 

That is a unique strategy that I had never thought or even heard of.

[jaguilar2549 0]

That is a unique strategy that I had never thought or even heard of.

 

It really is unique. What I really like about it is that instead of waiting until the last 2 picks to get my def and k now I might consider a a def like SD or IND in the very early rounds. Also, people have to give more thought on what they will do during bye weeks. I think that also limits transactions and helps with value when it comes to package a trade.

[Rozelle 0]

IDP is not for everyone … that’s for sure. Like dynasty, salary cap and contract league’s, it’s more complex. You have the various schemes 4-3, 3-4 (one gap), 3-4 (two gap), man, cover-2, Tampa-2, and many variations, as well as who stays in the nickel … dime. There is a lot of rotation, especially along the defensive front. Some of these guys who go to the Pro Bowl year in and year out are not the best players at their respective positions, just more popular.

However, the argument about the talented players don’t always end up with the better stats and the best CB’s don’t get the ball thrown their way is part of the IDP strategy, however, there really aren’t any true shutdown corners in the NFL anymore, the rules make it too difficult, so the CB thing is pretty much out the window.

With the talented players/better stats thing, offense isn’t immune to that either, that’s just part of the game. It’s not like the best RB or WR scores every TD. Sometimes good players play great games.

And … sometimes it as simple as these so-called mediocre players, just haven’t been recognized by some fans as good players yet. Someone like a Keith Bulluck was well known in the IDP world long before he started getting the recognition, and Pro Bowl appearances he deserved.

 

Like RoadLizard said … For a lot of people its just too much to track and mess with.

 

Sorry for the hijack there Kgeorge78, had to defend IDP with what it sounds like your trying to do, eliminating kicker and defense looks like a viable option.