kpbuckeye 2 Posted June 10, 2008 600 and barely a word about it. Its a shame good guys don't get as much attention as deadbeats. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=txre...t&type=lgns Ken Griffey Jr. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikings4ever 496 Posted June 10, 2008 If he had been able to stay healthy, he would have gone down as the greatest player of our generation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Me_2006 14 Posted June 10, 2008 If he had been able to stay healthy, he would have gone down as the greatest player of our any generation. Fixed. Seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikings4ever 496 Posted June 10, 2008 Fixed. Seriously. He'd be good enough to be ARGUABLY the greatest of all time, but I think he'd pretty much be the undisputed greatest of our generation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Me_2006 14 Posted June 10, 2008 He'd be good enough to be ARGUABLY the greatest of all time, but I think he'd pretty much be the undisputed greatest of our generation. Agreed there. I just think that mix of hitting, fielding, and "flair" makes him the best all-around player ever, had he stayed healthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drizzay 645 Posted June 10, 2008 The sweetest swing since Teddy Ballgame Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,310 Posted June 10, 2008 I didn't even know he was still playing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilroy69 994 Posted June 10, 2008 I love him man. Its too bad people are higher than him on the list when we know they cheated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted June 10, 2008 no kidding....sosa? wtf.... i cant say he would be the best EVER...i never saw anyone before the 70s...im sure there are plenty who did it all also.... but im happy for him..its a good way to help bump his rookie cards back up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Me_2006 14 Posted June 10, 2008 I love him man. Its too bad people are higher than him on the list when we know they cheated. Yeah, that damn Willie Mays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paulinstl 295 Posted June 10, 2008 The Kid was a great ballplayer. Like others have said, it's a shame his later years have been affected by injuries. But, as far as the being the best player of his generation, no way. I understand that Reds' fans beleive this, they need something positive to cheer about. After so many seasons of being out of the playoffs, not being competitive, and playing in a joke of a bandbox of a stadium, it makes sense that they will embrace Griffey's 600th as a source of pride this season, conviently forgetting how many times they booed their asses off at Griffey in the last five years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted June 10, 2008 May have reached 800 home runs if he had stayed healthy. Or 1000 if he decided to go the Bonds/McGwire/Sosa-route. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 2 Posted June 10, 2008 The Kid was a great ballplayer. Like others have said, it's a shame his later years have been affected by injuries. But, as far as the being the best player of his generation, no way. I understand that Reds' fans beleive this, they need something positive to cheer about. After so many seasons of being out of the playoffs, not being competitive, and playing in a joke of a bandbox of a stadium, it makes sense that they will embrace Griffey's 600th as a source of pride this season, conviently forgetting how many times they booed their asses off at Griffey in the last five years. there is a dipshit in every crowd. much like you just were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil number 0 Posted June 10, 2008 there is a dipshit in every crowd. much like you just were. Can you ever have a civil discussion or debate without the personal insults? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 It is really a MEH moment for me. Griffey hasn't been great for so long, I don't even remember him being great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 2 Posted June 10, 2008 Can you ever have a civil discussion or debate without the personal insults? can you blow me? puzzay alias Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Ryan2 314 Posted June 10, 2008 It is really a MEH moment for me. Griffey hasn't been great for so long, I don't even remember him being great. Griffey Jr. was great for about 4 or 5 years. We spent the next 15 years talking about how great he was gonna' be while he was busy being mediocre because of all his injuries. This is more of a longevity (20 year career) achievement than it is a "greatness" achievement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 Griffey Jr. was great for about 4 or 5 years. We spent the next 15 years talking about how great he was gonna' be while he was busy being mediocre because of all his injuries. This is more of a longevity (20 year career) achievement than it is a "greatness" achievement. Exactly. Playing his best years in Seattle didn't help either. If you ask me, steroids aside. Raffy Palmiero had a better career than KGJ. it's unfortunate Raffy probably won't sniff the HOF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 2 Posted June 10, 2008 Exactly. Playing his best years in Seattle didn't help either. If you ask me, steroids aside. Raffy Palmiero had a better career than KGJ. it's unfortunate Raffy probably won't sniff the HOF do you think griff deserves to be in HOF? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 If you ask me, steroids aside. Raffy Palmiero had a better career than KGJ. it's unfortunate Raffy probably won't sniff the HOF do you think griff deserves to be in HOF? If Ozzie focking Smith is a first ballot HOF'er, than both of these guys should be no-brainers....steroid situation aside for Palmeiro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 do you think griff deserves to be in HOF? Absolutely! 600 HR is a great accomplishment. For 5 years, he was arguably the best OF in all of MLB. It's unfortunate he missed so many games due to injuries. He should have at least caught Ruth and I think that's why some people may be down on him. He started when he was 19 and he was awesome and people had him hitting 700 career HR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted June 10, 2008 To me, Griffey Jr is to baseball what Gale Sayers is to football. Both are considered to be all-time greats simply due to how awesome they were pre-injury. People can only speculate about how great they would have ended up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 If Ozzie focking Smith is a first ballot HOF'er, than both of these guys should be no-brainers....steroid situation aside for Palmeiro. I'm so sick of hearing "1st ballot hall of famer" either you're a hall of famer or you're not a hall of famer. ozzie smith is NOT a focking hall of famer. Phil Rizzuto is not a hall of famer. The baseball HOF is a joke, because the idiots that vote will have you believe that being a 1st ballot HOFer is better than being a HOF. That's bullsh!t. Either you're in or you're not, it doesn't matter when you were voted in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 To me, Griffey Jr is to baseball what Gale Sayers is to football. Both are considered to be all-time greats simply due to how awesome they were pre-injury. People can only speculate about how great they would have ended up. Griffey still put up monster cumulative stats, despite all his injuries. Sayers didnt. I think people only speculate how much greater Griffey could have been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 I'm so sick of hearing "1st ballot hall of famer" either you're a hall of famer or you're not a hall of famer. ozzie smith is NOT a focking hall of famer. Phil Rizzuto is not a hall of famer. The baseball HOF is a joke, because the idiots that vote will have you believe that being a 1st ballot HOFer is better than being a HOF. That's bullsh!t. Either you're in or you're not, it doesn't matter when you were voted in. i agree with all of this, especially the ozzie smith point. A simple test for HOF-worthiness is this...if you have to "think" about it, its almost a certainty that that player isnt a HOF caliber player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 Griffey still put up monster cumulative stats, despite all his injuries. Sayers didnt. I think people only speculate how much greater Griffey could have been. yeah, I don't see sayers at all like griffey. i see Barry Sanders more like Griffey. They both could have been the best ever in their sport, but one quit and the other kept getting hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewbieJr 540 Posted June 10, 2008 Griffey still put up monster cumulative stats, despite all his injuries. Sayers didnt. I think people only speculate how much greater Griffey could have been. True, but with the way they stared their careers, both were already being called 'potentially' the best ever. In injuries ended Sayers career early, while they simply hampered Griffey and decreased his incredible early-career numbers. Point being, because of injuries, we'll never know how incredible either would have been if they stayed healthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 Point being, because of injuries, we'll never know how incredible either would have been if they stayed healthy. I suppose there is the "what could have been" factor..but i think that is much, much greater in Sayers case than in Griffeys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 i agree with all of this, especially the ozzie smith point. A simple test for HOF-worthiness is this...if you have to "think" about it, its almost a certainty that that player isnt a HOF caliber player. I may be a Barry Bonds rumpswab, but I know baseball. baseball is and will always be my favorite sport. It upsets me that people like Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith are in the HOF, but Jim Rice is not. You don't want Jim Rice in? That's fine, but kick out 1/3 of the players that are in now and I will be fine with that. I also think baseball needs to make a decision about this era and tell the voters to vote players in by what they did on the field and forget steroids. For Raffy Palmiero to get shunned, will be an absolute embarrassment to the sport. I don't care that he went to congree and pointed his finger and lied. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US would have done the same focking thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted June 10, 2008 I'm so sick of hearing "1st ballot hall of famer" either you're a hall of famer or you're not a hall of famer. ozzie smith is NOT a focking hall of famer. Phil Rizzuto is not a hall of famer. The baseball HOF is a joke, because the idiots that vote will have you believe that being a 1st ballot HOFer is better than being a HOF. That's bullsh!t. Either you're in or you're not, it doesn't matter when you were voted in. I had NO problem with Phil Rizzuto getting the hall of fame nod..stats alone is not the reason to make it in...he was a stellar fielding shortstop..one of the best ever.. ty cobb, who hated all, said he and stan musial were 2 of the best that could play in any era.... while its true that phil played on great teams..he was fantastic... ozzie smith? i have to agree with you on...i dont see how he got in before jim rice or others... but griffey deserves more love than he is getting... he had more than 5 great years...heck, he had 7 seasons over 40 homers...9 over 30...nearly 200 stolen bases and 17 gold gloves..the guy was jim edmonds with a stick... always had a smile on his face..never was in trouble.. not many players can claim to have helped build a stadium but he helped build safeco..he saved that franchise..now its only fitting that he end his career there.... and if there was a player who had a reason to try HGH, it was griffey...he knew it couldve kept him healthy..but he didnt.. considering that hes been playing the last few years with his hamstrings barely connected...id say hes still doing well... pretty amazing fact about dusty baker managing when griffey, baroid and sosa hit their 600th and he was on deck when aaron hit his record shot... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 I had NO problem with Phil Rizzuto getting the hall of fame nod..stats alone is not the reason to make it in...he was a stellar fielding shortstop..one of the best ever.. ozzie smith? i have to agree with you on...i dont see how he got in before jim rice or others... but griffey deserves more love than he is getting... he had more than 5 great years...heck, he had 7 seasons over 40 homers...9 over 30...nearly 200 stolen bases and 17 gold gloves..the guy was jim edmonds with a stick... I dont see how you can say Rizzuto deserves the HOF and Ozzie Smith doesnt especially if the main basis is that he was one of the best fielding SS ever. I hate all the Ozzie Smith blowing that goes on but if defense alone is enough to get you in the HOF, Ozzie belongs. I personally dont think so, but thats a different point. Griffey only has ~ 8- 10 Gold Gloves btw...this is like his 20th year in the league and he hasnt won one in quite a few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 I had NO problem with Phil Rizzuto getting the hall of fame nod..stats alone is not the reason to make it in...he was a stellar fielding shortstop..one of the best ever.. ty cobb, who hated all, said he and stan musial were 2 of the best that could play in any era.... while its true that phil played on great teams..he was fantastic... ozzie smith? i have to agree with you on...i dont see how he got in before jim rice or others... but griffey deserves more love than he is getting... he had more than 5 great years...heck, he had 7 seasons over 40 homers...9 over 30...nearly 200 stolen bases and 17 gold gloves..the guy was jim edmonds with a stick... always had a smile on his face..never was in trouble.. not many players can claim to have helped build a stadium but he helped build safeco..he saved that franchise..now its only fitting that he end his career there.... and if there was a player who had a reason to try HGH, it was griffey...he knew it couldve kept him healthy..but he didnt.. considering that hes been playing the last few years with his hamstrings barely connected...id say hes still doing well... pretty amazing fact about dusty baker managing when griffey, baroid and sosa hit their 600th and he was on deck when aaron hit his record shot... I've always compared Bonds to Griffey when they were the 2 best players in all of baseball. Bond's always got the nod from me, because of his OBP and his stolen bases. I'm not going to sit here and say Griffey did roids, but you cannot say he didn't either. No one will ever know. I am not tainting him, but no one really knows. Plenty of players that have done steroids/hgh have been hurt. Griffey hurt his shoulders a multitude of times, you telling me HGH would have prevented that? C'mon now. Yes, I can say for certainty Bonds did steroids, I can't argue that. What I can argue is the affects it had on his production. No one will ever know. Haters will say it did wonders, rumpswabs like me will say it didn't help much, but it helped him stay on the field. My point is, either baseball says, we are not going to exclude this era from the HOF and if they do, you judge Bonds by his numbers, that is all you can do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 I dont see how you can say Rizzuto deserves the HOF and Ozzie Smith doesnt especially if the main basis is that he was one of the best fielding SS ever. I hate all the Ozzie Smith blowing that goes on but if defense alone is enough to get you in the HOF, Ozzie belongs. I personally dont think so, but thats a different point. Griffey only has ~ 8- 10 Gold Gloves btw...this is like his 20th year in the league and he hasnt won one in quite a few years. Griffey had 10 GG's, but if you count the GG on baseball reference, it looks like 17. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpbuckeye 2 Posted June 10, 2008 I think the injury thing is overblown. he had 2 or 3 down years due to injury. Over a very long career, thats not what he should be remembered for. In 04 he had 20hr 05 -35hr 06 -27hr 07 -30hr and 7 so far this year. seems to be doing pretty well yet we always hear about injuries because we all know his talent level and we hold that 'potential' as our guage. thats not fair. If we looked at just his numbers and his name was john smith, we would be in awe of those accomplishments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 Griffey had 10 GG's, but if you count the GG on baseball reference, it looks like 17. Makes sense....thanks for that clarification ed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted June 10, 2008 I've always compared Bonds to Griffey when they were the 2 best players in all of baseball. Bond's always got the nod from me, because of his OBP and his stolen bases. I'm not going to sit here and say Griffey did roids, but you cannot say he didn't either. No one will ever know. I am not tainting him, but no one really knows. Plenty of players that have done steroids/hgh have been hurt. Griffey hurt his shoulders a multitude of times, you telling me HGH would have prevented that? C'mon now. Yes, I can say for certainty Bonds did steroids, I can't argue that. What I can argue is the affects it had on his production. No one will ever know. Haters will say it did wonders, rumpswabs like me will say it didn't help much, but it helped him stay on the field. My point is, either baseball says, we are not going to exclude this era from the HOF and if they do, you judge Bonds by his numbers, that is all you can do. Ive always been a Bonds fan...he is 1 of the best players that ive ever seen...people forget that he used to steal at will as well as hit.... Im not irate that he did do roids...just that he shouldnt have..he was a 1st ballot guy BEFORE the so-called beginning of his taking them and yeah..i nearly erased me saying that griffey didnt take that...its naive of me to say that..how do i know?... as far as staying healthy...i guess im not the hgh expert here..it just seems as if it helped players recover and stay on the field.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMoney 0 Posted June 10, 2008 Griffey had 10 GG's, but if you count the GG on baseball reference, it looks like 17. too early for me to add..wtf was i looking at.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patweisers44 697 Posted June 10, 2008 I've always compared Bonds to Griffey when they were the 2 best players in all of baseball. Bond's always got the nod from me, because of his OBP and his stolen bases. I'm not going to sit here and say Griffey did roids, but you cannot say he didn't either. No one will ever know. I am not tainting him, but no one really knows. Plenty of players that have done steroids/hgh have been hurt. Griffey hurt his shoulders a multitude of times, you telling me HGH would have prevented that? C'mon now. Yes, I can say for certainty Bonds did steroids, I can't argue that. What I can argue is the affects it had on his production. No one will ever know. Haters will say it did wonders, rumpswabs like me will say it didn't help much, but it helped him stay on the field. My point is, either baseball says, we are not going to exclude this era from the HOF and if they do, you judge Bonds by his numbers, that is all you can do. Ive always been a Bonds fan...he is 1 of the best players that ive ever seen...people forget that he used to steal at will as well as hit.... Im not irate that he did do roids...just that he shouldnt have..he was a 1st ballot guy BEFORE the so-called beginning of his taking them and yeah..i nearly erased me saying that griffey didnt take that...its naive of me to say that..how do i know?... as far as staying healthy...i guess im not the hgh expert here..it just seems as if it helped players recover and stay on the field.. i forgot what a thread without insults, name-calling, etc was like..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shovelheadt 61 Posted June 10, 2008 The Kid was a great ballplayer. Like others have said, it's a shame his later years have been affected by injuries. But, as far as the being the best player of his generation, no way. I understand that Reds' fans beleive this, they need something positive to cheer about. After so many seasons of being out of the playoffs, not being competitive, and playing in a joke of a bandbox of a stadium, it makes sense that they will embrace Griffey's 600th as a source of pride this season, conviently forgetting how many times they booed their asses off at Griffey in the last five years. LMAO, you're a focking joke. I rarely see you make any comments anymore that are remotely coherent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted June 10, 2008 i forgot what a thread without insults, name-calling, etc was like..... Don't you worry. Newbie will piss me off and start saying with every injection Barry Bonds took, he mashed in a dead kitten to enhance the affect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
