Please explain to me. WHY WHY WHY do people draft a kicker/defense before the last 2 rounds?

[GobbleDog 1,010]

But at BEST in the 8th round you're getting the best defense.. ok..

 

but you could be drafting a RB that will end up starting for someone.

 

Perfect example.. few years back.. I drafted larry johnson really early, like 6th round.. people were like

 

Instead of taking a defense, I took a shot on a RB.. what ended up happening? he carried me to a title. a defense will NEVER carry you to a title.

 

Well yeah, they could end up starting for someone. But it ain't very likely. You've got a much better chance of that defense actually finishing in top 3. Here were this year's 8th round RBs prior to the start of the season (ADP based on 12 teamer):

 

8.03 Duece McCallister

8.06 Felix Jones

8.10 Ahman Green

9.02 Justif Fargas

9.03 Ricky Williams

9.04 Deangello Williams

[De Novo 0]

If EVERYONE picks a Kicker and Defense the last 2 rounds, then by picking a Defense 1 round earlier, you get the best Defense AND you end up with the same position players you otherwise would have because everyone else is taking Kickers and D's. Defense is important in some scoring systems. I've been in leagues where the top Defense scores 300 points. So, I can certainly see taking that D with a mid-round pick.

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

If EVERYONE picks a Kicker and Defense the last 2 rounds, then by picking a Defense 1 round earlier, you get the best Defense AND you end up with the same position players you otherwise would have because everyone else is taking Kickers and D's. Defense is important in some scoring systems. I've been in leagues where the top Defense scores 300 points. So, I can certainly see taking that D with a mid-round pick.

 

no on is making that argument... its the idea that people take defenses in the 8th and kickers in the 9th etc.. and that is astounding

[GobbleDog 1,010]

no on is making that argument... its the idea that people take defenses in the 8th and kickers in the 9th etc.. and that is astounding

 

I won't argue about taking kickers any earlier than the LAST round. That's just stupid. But a defense is justifiable.

[ChromeWeasel 0]

You obviously mised the point and don't understand how fantasy football works. It's true that D/ST are important and often score more than a lot of position players. But you only start 1 D! In a 12 team league you should have a top 12 D. No one will have a bad D. But you start 2-3 RB's & WR's, plus you have them on the bench too. There will be over 50 RB's spread over the rosters. There is a much bigger drop off of position players if you don't grab them all early. As an example, I took Jonathan Stewart in a later round with "top 5 ranked D's" still on the board. If you are in a smart league there shouldn't be any "sleepers" left in the last 2 rounds. Ended up with Dallas 2nd to last round and Prater with the last pick.

 

Please invite me to your league next year. I love to see those D's go early.

 

The fact is the differential between the players is what matters most. Even when you only have 12 starters, like most Defense or QB positions, what's really important is how far apart those positions are in terms of points scored. Is there a statistically large dropoff from the first two defenses and the next 10? Most years there is. Many years the top defense is significantly far ahead of the pack. If you can get one of those players at ANY position it is an advantage over your competition. If you just ignore that you're giving free points to your opponent.

 

On top of that, many teams don't just draft one defense. Many teams cover their bye week, or hedge their bets to try and get a top-tier scoring defense. That means not everyone is going to have a starting caliber defense. It's the same thing with QBs. Most teams take at least 2 to cover bye weeks, injuries, and to hedge their bets. In either case, if you score two top-tier guys you're better off. You can trade later on, or just protect yourself in case something happens to that position. Assuming that you'll have a top 12 defense just because theres only 12 teams is idiotic. It's just not going to happen as I've illustrated above.

 

Even if you watch the scoring and pick up a quality defense off the WW, you've cost yourself several weeks of scoring. Did sleeping on a D cost you a game or two? It's possible that it will. Defenses score highest early in the year. Right now I can see that the top two defenses are scoring about twice as much as the defenses ranked #12. The Titans are #1, scoring about the same every week as Terrell Owens, Tony Romo, Eddie Royal, or Frank Gore. This will probably slow down after mid-season, but right now that's a monster advantage for the team owning the Titans. And he wouldnt have them if he waited until the last round to pick them up.

 

Now I'm not saying that you should go out and draft your Defense in the 5th round. It's very hard to predict the best D year after year. But I will say that many leagues have terrible scoring rules. If you REALLY think defenses are so worthless that they should always be drafted in your last round, then you should fix your scoring. Why have a position so worthless it's worth nothing more than a last round pick? If that's really the case in your league and you havent fixed it yet, then you are in a league run by idiots. Fix the scoring to make all positions have some value, or just drop the positions that are inherently worthless.

 

To your last point, for what it's worth, I know quite well how fantasy works. I've been running leagues for over 10 years. I won't run a league where positions are worthless. It's pretty funny that you'll actually admit you're in a league where no value is assigned to a position as if it suggests you know what you're doing. I regard it as evidence you're in a league where the commish and owners are too ignorant to keep their rules up to date. That much said, I'll be happy to add you to my league next year if you can come up with the $200 entry fee.

[surferskin 31]

If EVERYONE picks a Kicker and Defense the last 2 rounds, then by picking a Defense 1 round earlier, you get the best Defense AND you end up with the same position players you otherwise would have because everyone else is taking Kickers and D's. Defense is important in some scoring systems. I've been in leagues where the top Defense scores 300 points. So, I can certainly see taking that D with a mid-round pick.

How do you know you're getting the #1 DST one round early?

[KSB2424 3,174]

How do you know you're getting the #1 DST one round early?

Because they are ranked on my cheatsheet number one silly!

[surferskin 31]

Because they are ranked in my "Street & Smith" magazine number one silly!

FIXORED

[De Novo 0]

no on is making that argument... its the idea that people take defenses in the 8th and kickers in the 9th etc.. and that is astounding

Well, then the thread title is misleading.

[sirwinzalot 1]

How often does a devin hester come along? once in a lifetime.

 

Are you telling me defensive touchdowns are skill?

 

Even so,, chicago scores 175 in my league.. the 10th defense scored 140.. is it worth drafting the bears in the 5th round? no

 

Hester will fizzle out just like the other kick returners that were great in their prime like Tamarick Vanover, and Dante Hall. They all had success for so long before teams focused in on them, and then they're done. Just like Hesters move a couple weeks ago when he tried to act like he wasn't gonna run it out of the endzone, like he's done before, and got tackled at the five yard line looking like an idiot, yeah, that's not gonna work again. Sometimes Defenses will be consistent for a few years, but never worth a gamble taking them early in the draft, last two rounds of the draft for a defense and kicker is the way to go, especially for a keeper league, looking for the next big thing to hold on to. I had a team that kept the Bears D the last three years, needless to say, he's been one of the worst teams in the league the last three years.

[De Novo 0]

How do you know you're getting the #1 DST one round early?

You don't, but you're getting YOUR #1 Defense a round early. I'd rather have my pick of the lot.

[GobbleDog 1,010]

If you REALLY think defenses are so worthless that they should always be drafted in your last round, then you should fix your scoring.

 

I think this is the crux of the debate. It depends on the scoring. When the scoring creates enough discrepancy between the top D's and the 12th or worse D's, then taking a D in the mid rounds is worth it, DESPITE the fact that D's are more difficult to predict than other positions. Otherwise, it probably ain't worf it.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Ok, before I start my diatribe, let me say I can see people taking a defense a little early, but gawd knows nowhere before say the 10th round.

 

I have been riding a guy in my league mercilessly this year because we had a slight change in the rules that made defenses score more over last year. We get performance bonuses based on pts allowed and yardage allowed plus the standard stuff for sacks, ints, etc. Anyway, he took the Chargers defense in the 6th focking round, at which time I laughed outloud and several other people gave the "whaaaat?" response. He chuckled and said, and I quote, "You'll see, the rules changes makes defenses so much more valuable this year". I tried very briefly to explain that the rules change affects ALL the defenses, but he just smiled as if he was the cat that just got the mouse.

 

I don't have a problem with going after a defense a little bit early, however, there are still a ton of valuable players available in the 6th thru even 12th rounds. This is a 10 teamer, and he took the Chargers D with the 6.10 pick. Just to give an idea, Lee Evans, Roy Williams, Hines Ward, Chad Johnson, DeAngelo Williams, Lavernues Coles, Laurence Maroney, Jay Cutler, Fred Taylor, Dallas Clark and ALL the rookie RB's (except McFadden and Kevin Smith) were still on the board.

 

Later on I decided to rag him some more and did a bit of research. I found that the top ranked and 10th ranked defense in our league, on average, is a 4 pt difference per game. I also found that the "concensus" top ranked Defense in the league did not finish as the top ranked defense at season end, not once, in the last 4 years. To make matters worse, the Vikings, Bears, Patriots and Jaguars all went before the 10th round. I had the Chargers defense last year, I would have taken them again, but not for that price. So, as it was I sat and actually went early on a defense myself, taking the Steelers in the 12th round, as the 8th defense taken. I grabbed the Bills this week to cover what I feel is a bad matchup for the Steelers vs the Eagles. I'm currently sitting on the 2nd and 5th ranked defenses thus far for the price of a 12th round pick. I took whatever kicker was left and ranked the highest (Jason Hanson -Det) in the 16th and promptly dropped him for somebody else after week 1.

 

The bottom line is this. Picking a highly regarded defense gives no surety or security in how they will finish. There are WAY too many variables that are in play when you're talking about 11 guys on defense and likely another 11 on special teams. The Chargers without Merriman are still a good defense, but who could have predicted the newfound offensive prowess of the Broncos and the fact that they get to light up San Diego twice this year? Kickers, kickers are freakin worthless and I wish they didn't even get included. NEVER WASTE AN EARLY PICK ON A DEFENSE AND NEVER, EVER, EVAH PICK A KICKER BEFORE THE LAST ROUND!!!

[gocolts 300]

it's not just my league... i think a lot of homegrown leagues have this happening.

 

people that are in homegrown leagues, just aren't professional fantasy footballers.

 

they show up every year for the draft, just to donate their $450 and see everyone they haven't seen since the last draft.

 

I had a guy show up this year with ONLY a fantasy football magazine, nothing else. I ended up giving him one of my printouts, I had to.

 

If you show up to a fantasy draft that takes place the wednesday before the season starts and you have a fantasy magazine, you should be embarrassed.

 

I must have at least 4 to 6 every year.. they usually have other stuff too

 

In my local leagues, there are a few that do that, show up with just a FF mag. Then, half the draft they chuckle and say something like "HAH, that player isn't even on my list" like you are drafting some scrub. They don't even realize how focked they are with those mags. One guy drafted Rudi Johnson and T. Henry, which we all laughed at. He was like what, is he hurt?? He was the same guy laughing when I drafted Perry 5-6 rounds latter.

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

The fact is the differential between the players is what matters most. Even when you only have 12 starters, like most Defense or QB positions, what's really important is how far apart those positions are in terms of points scored. Is there a statistically large dropoff from the first two defenses and the next 10? Most years there is. Many years the top defense is significantly far ahead of the pack. If you can get one of those players at ANY position it is an advantage over your competition. If you just ignore that you're giving free points to your opponent.

 

On top of that, many teams don't just draft one defense. Many teams cover their bye week, or hedge their bets to try and get a top-tier scoring defense. That means not everyone is going to have a starting caliber defense. It's the same thing with QBs. Most teams take at least 2 to cover bye weeks, injuries, and to hedge their bets. In either case, if you score two top-tier guys you're better off. You can trade later on, or just protect yourself in case something happens to that position. Assuming that you'll have a top 12 defense just because theres only 12 teams is idiotic. It's just not going to happen as I've illustrated above.

 

Even if you watch the scoring and pick up a quality defense off the WW, you've cost yourself several weeks of scoring. Did sleeping on a D cost you a game or two? It's possible that it will. Defenses score highest early in the year. Right now I can see that the top two defenses are scoring about twice as much as the defenses ranked #12. The Titans are #1, scoring about the same every week as Terrell Owens, Tony Romo, Eddie Royal, or Frank Gore. This will probably slow down after mid-season, but right now that's a monster advantage for the team owning the Titans. And he wouldnt have them if he waited until the last round to pick them up.

 

Now I'm not saying that you should go out and draft your Defense in the 5th round. It's very hard to predict the best D year after year. But I will say that many leagues have terrible scoring rules. If you REALLY think defenses are so worthless that they should always be drafted in your last round, then you should fix your scoring. Why have a position so worthless it's worth nothing more than a last round pick? If that's really the case in your league and you havent fixed it yet, then you are in a league run by idiots. Fix the scoring to make all positions have some value, or just drop the positions that are inherently worthless.

 

To your last point, for what it's worth, I know quite well how fantasy works. I've been running leagues for over 10 years. I won't run a league where positions are worthless. It's pretty funny that you'll actually admit you're in a league where no value is assigned to a position as if it suggests you know what you're doing. I regard it as evidence you're in a league where the commish and owners are too ignorant to keep their rules up to date. That much said, I'll be happy to add you to my league next year if you can come up with the $200 entry fee.

 

You have missed the point completely

 

You can change your scoring system all you want. It won't matter. The arguement has nothing to do with how much a defense scores, rather how much the top scores compared to the 12th 13th or 14th defense. The position itself can be worth a TON and still not make sense to draft before the last round.

 

the differential is not that large and you have very little chance of hitting on the correct defense... it changes year to year albeit with a little less turnover than top kickers but a good deal of turnover regardless.

 

for positional players , dropoffs get large.. for defenses its usually 4 or 5 fantasy points per game and therefore not worth letting value go for other areas of your team.

[ChromeWeasel 0]

no on is making that argument... its the idea that people take defenses in the 8th and kickers in the 9th etc.. and that is astounding

 

I thought edjr said so pretty explicitly, that it's stupid to take a kicker or defense before the last 2 rounds.

[GobbleDog 1,010]

for positional players , dropoffs get large.. for defenses its usually 4 or 5 fantasy points per game and therefore not worth letting value go for other areas of your team.

 

I think you're over-estimating the point drop-off for 8th/9th round position players. Particularly RBs and WRs.

[mccombsau 5]

First and foremost, I like winning....secondly however I like doing a little research and scooping up opinions from folks like you all. My favorite part of FF (besides winning) is the draft and preparing for the draft. I only keep 1 Defense and 1 kicker on my team and I don't even draft them. We're in a 12 teamer, 16 spots, 14 round draft Sunday before labor day every year. I pick my D and K off the waivers the Monday after our draft.

 

That all being said, I almost enjoy having to make decisions on which K or D I want every week. If I pick a hot one up off the waivers, that's wonderful, I'll keep them.....but if not at least I get to gamble a little and try to test myself each week. A game within a game I guess you could say.

 

my 0.02 even though no one asked for it

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

I think you're over-estimating the point drop-off for 8th/9th round position players. Particularly RBs and WRs.

 

the difference between the first round positoion players is not great compared to the 8th/9th round position players? I beg to differ.

 

I am trying to compare the dropoff between TOP and middle of the road players with TOP and middle of the road defenses to show that there is little justification to reach for that "top" defense even if they repeat as such.

 

the fact that the dropoff from the number 1 D to the number 12 D is 4 fppg tells me that I need not waste a high pick at the position when I could be grabbing my 3rd WR or my backup RB or even QB.

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

I thought edjr said so pretty explicitly, that it's stupid to take a kicker or defense before the last 2 rounds.

 

he was talking about people who grab D's and Kickers in round 5-8 or 9....

 

i still think its dumb to take a kicker before the last round.. history has proven there is NO reason to...

 

theres is slightly more argument for drafting a defense higher but still a very weak one. The point difference just isn't large enough to justify

[ChromeWeasel 0]

You have missed the point completely

 

You can change your scoring system all you want. It won't matter. The arguement has nothing to do with how much a defense scores, rather how much the top scores compared to the 12th 13th or 14th defense. The position itself can be worth a TON and still not make sense to draft before the last round.

 

the differential is not that large and you have very little chance of hitting on the correct defense... it changes year to year albeit with a little less turnover than top kickers but a good deal of turnover regardless.

 

for positional players , dropoffs get large.. for defenses its usually 4 or 5 fantasy points per game and therefore not worth letting value go for other areas of your team.

 

No, I didnt miss your point. I actually pointed out the difference SPECIFICALLY in my post. The scoring difference right now between the #1 defense and the #12 defense is huge. It's 10 points per game. That's almost 2 touchdowns, and its a margin of error that's very difficult to overcome.

 

And how you score defenses will affect how far apart the top and midranked defenses score. To suggest that it's irrelevant is simply ignorant, especially after I gave you examples of how dramatic the swing can be. Do all defenses score 1 point for sacks? Do all Defenses award points for shutouts? Blocked kicks? Low yardage bonuses? Are you seriously saying that the way you handle scoring has nothing to do with when to draft a position?

 

Different scoring systems will widen the gap between good defenses and weak ones. This potentially increasing the value of a good pick at that position. To say that scoring doesnt matter is an absolutely indefensible position.

[edjr 6,899]

WOW, we are having an actual interesting, legit debate on the mange board with very minimal name calling.

 

Way to man up fellas.

 

I knew we had it in us..

 

leave it to the king of the most inane, useless threads in the history of this board to come up with a doozy.

[GobbleDog 1,010]

the difference between the first round positoion players is not great compared to the 8th/9th round position players? I beg to differ.

 

I am trying to compare the dropoff between TOP and middle of the road players with TOP and middle of the road defenses to show that there is little justification to reach for that "top" defense even if they repeat as such.

 

the fact that the dropoff from the number 1 D to the number 12 D is 4 fppg tells me that I need not waste a high pick at the position when I could be grabbing my 3rd WR or my backup RB or even QB.

 

Of course the 1st/2nd round position players have a huge point drop-off compared with the 8th/9th round position players. That goes without saying. What difference does that make? Nobody is taking a defense in the 1st/2nd rounds. It's the 8th/9th round positions players compared with 13th/14th round position players that's important.

 

And as for the 4 points per game difference for defenses being meaningless... in reality it ends up being much more than that. I reiterate what I said to edr:

 

...that 70 point difference is over the 12th best defense. But in reality when you pick defenses in the last rounds, they could very well finish much worse than 12th, so in essesence the #1 defense will potentially outscore those late round D's by a lot more than 70 points. Sure you'll probably dump that late round D if they suck and pick up another D during the season, but when it's all tallied up the #1 D will have outscored your total defensive points by much more than the 70 points or so.

[The Hood 9]

70 points over 17 weeks? a whole 4 points per week? that justifies drafting a defense in the 8th round?

 

wow.. absolute FAIL

Do you feel the same about QB's then too? Because P. Manning / Brees only outscored Kitna / Eli by 4 points a game last year. Do you find the same stupidity with people taking those guys 7-9 rounds earlier?

[edjr 6,899]

Do you feel the same about QB's then too? Because P. Manning / Brees only outscored Kitna / Eli by 4 points a game last year. Do you find the same stupidity with people taking those guys 7-9 rounds earlier?

 

That's not good logic.

 

A QB in the 8th round (philip rivers) could potentially be the highest scoring QB or top 5 easily.

 

That means he could outscore a large # guys that were drafted in the 1st round and be your cornerstone player.

 

No one wins a fantasy league with players they get in the 1st few rounds, it's always rounds 4 through 10 where you make your team and get great value.

 

Defenses might outscore a couple players in the 1st round, if they have a bad year.

[surferskin 31]

So who may I ask did you early you 'draft a defense early" guys take this year? Minny or Chargers? How's that working out?

[The Hood 9]

How do you know you're getting the #1 DST one round early?

How is it any different than people "knowing" Steven Jackson is the 4th best RB?

[edjr 6,899]

How is it any different than people "knowing" Steven Jackson is the 4th best RB?

 

Know? hah, right. cause the "experts" said so?

 

I had the 4th pick and Jackson was on the board.

 

I traded the pick packaged with my 11th rounder, for another guys 2nd and 3rd rounder.

 

he had 2 1st round picks... SJAX and Manning

[surferskin 31]

How is it any different than people "knowing" Steven Jackson is the 4th best RB?

There's less variables on RB's vs. 11 guys and a kick returner.

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

Of course the 1st/2nd round position players have a huge point drop-off compared with the 8th/9th round position players. That goes without saying. What difference does that make? Nobody is taking a defense in the 1st/2nd rounds. It's the 8th/9th round positions players compared with 13th/14th round position players that's important.

not in this case... because what I am trying to point out is the dropoff between the top defense and middle of the pack defenses compared to similar dropoffs at other positions.

 

i have never been a fan of people comparing players from two different positions based on round and points scored. in my opinion you can only really compare what a player does to the rest of the players at his position to determine relative value. Unless ofcourse your team is entirely flex.

 

so I am simply saying that the dropoff between defenses is minimal while the dropoff at other positions is worth noting and drafting accordingly.

 

so i guess you could say for my argument that actual round does not matter.

 

where round does come into play is the fact that in 10 or 12 team leagues there is no reason to look at more than 13 or 14 defenses realistically. while at other positions (the ones you should be drafting higher) you need to fill benches that are 2,3 and 4 spots deep.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Do you feel the same about QB's then too? Because P. Manning / Brees only outscored Kitna / Eli by 4 points a game last year. Do you find the same stupidity with people taking those guys 7-9 rounds earlier?

 

Again, it's about value...it's why I undervalue QB's vs RB's and WR's and why I'd rather stock up on 3 RB's and 3 WR's and research/guess/gamble that I can hit a QB or two late to make up for it. Here's an example...and a good contrast...

 

TEAM A - #1 Pick - 10 Team Draft:

Adrian Peterson (MIN)

Reggie Bush

Carson Palmer

Calvin Johnson

Torry Holt

San Diego Chargers

Lee Evans

Maurice Morris

Roddy White

Heath Miller

Shayne Graham

Kenny Watson

 

TEAM B - #8 Pick - 10 Team Draft:

Marshawn Lynch

Reggie Wayne

Andre Johnson

Michael Turner

Brandon Marshall

Kevin Smith ®

Jay Cutler

Jonathan Stewart ®

Santana Moss

Chris Perry

Philip Rivers

Pittsburgh Steelers

 

I only went 12 rounds deep there, until both teams had a defense. In theory the #1 team should not only have better starters (by virtue of picking more top palyers earlier) but should also have better depth. However, two dynamics occurred here: First, picking a top flight QB (unless you pick McNabb) usually creates a false sense of security by causing someone to think "Well, I only need a backup QB for one game this year, his bye week, right?". The other thing is that going too early on a position where scarcity isn't an issue creates real issues elsewhere...standard 1/2/2/1 w/ 1 Flex lineup

 

TEAM A:

QB: Palmer

RB: Peterson, Bush

WR: Cal Johnson, Torry Holt

TE: Heath Miller

Flex: Lee Evans, Roddy White, Maurice Morris or Kenny Watson

Def: Chargers

 

TEAM B:

QB: Cutler or Rivers

RB: Lynch, Turner

WR: Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson

TE: John Carlson

Flex: Brandon Marshall, John Stewart, Kevin Smith, Santana Moss or Chris Perry

Def: Steelers

 

So, I ask, who's team has better balance and depth? Going early on the QB for the most part, and the Defense all the times not only puts all your eggs in that position in one basket, it shifts eggs from other positions into that basket as well. The big difference is that you can typically know with some surety which QB will perform like a top QB, whereas defenses are a complete wildcard with too many variables to make them consistent. The points variation between the #1 QB and the #10 or #12 QB may be the same as the points variation between #1 and #10 or #12 defense, but the consistency with which a projected #1 QB attains or gets near that level is much higher than it is for a projected #1 defense.

[ChromeWeasel 0]

So who may I ask did you early you 'draft a defense early" guys take this year? Minny or Chargers? How's that working out?

 

The top 3 defenses so far went in rounds #13, 14, and 15 of my 18 round draft. That's not so early, but it's a big difference from waiting till the last 2 rounds of the draft. Those defenses are outscoring 'average' defenses ranked 12th or so by at least a touchdown. Its the difference between starting Reggie Wayne vs being stuck with Ike Hilliard.

 

And I wouldnt think that most players though San Diego looked so good after Merriman got injured.

 

I'm not arguing that you need to draft a defense early. But I will emphatically argue against calling other owners idiots for NOT waiting until the last 2 rounds. Finding a good defense should be an important part of your draft. If it's NOT and all your defenses are just worthless WW pickups, then your league is messed up.

[jgcrawfish 232]

The top 3 defenses so far went in rounds #13, 14, and 15 of my 18 round draft. That's not so early, but it's a big difference from waiting till the last 2 rounds of the draft. Those defenses are outscoring 'average' defenses ranked 12th or so by at least a touchdown. Its the difference between starting Reggie Wayne vs being stuck with Ike Hilliard.

 

And I wouldnt think that most players though San Diego looked so good after Merriman got injured.

 

I'm not arguing that you need to draft a defense early. But I will emphatically argue against calling other owners idiots for NOT waiting until the last 2 rounds. Finding a good defense should be an important part of your draft. If it's NOT and all your defenses are just worthless WW pickups, then your league is messed up.

 

You're defeating your own argument here...although I agree that you shouldn't call the owners that draft defenses early idiots (well, unless they take them in the 6th round that is). Preseason consensus top defenses: Chargers and Vikings. Current season ranks (in my league): 23rd and 24th respectively. You've got teams like the Titans, Cardinals and Bills in the top 8 right now...it makes me thing...why even draft a freaking defense? Just pick up one on WW w/ a good matchup before the opening game.

[KSB2424 3,174]

We can argue this with stats and crap all day long. The only thing I know is that in both fantasy leagues I play in that have been around a while, there are a few teams that are always at the bottom and a few teams that you are always looking out for because they consistently field competitive playoff teams.

 

The bad teams are always picking kickers and D's in the middle rounds and the consistently good teams wait until the last 2-3 rounds. It happens every year, over and over again.

 

Cowinkydink? I think not.

[surferskin 31]

We can argue this with stats and crap all day long. The only thing I know is that in both fantasy leagues I play in that have been around a while, there are a few teams that are always at the bottom and a few teams that you are always looking out for because they consistently field competitive playoff teams.

 

The bad teams are always picking kickers and D's in the middle rounds and the consistently good teams wait until the last 2-3 rounds. It happens every year, over and over again.

 

Cowinkydink? I think not.

Or it could have something with the fact that you play in a 4 team league with your immediate family.

[edjr 6,899]

The bad teams are always picking kickers and D's in the middle rounds and the consistently good teams wait until the last 2-3 rounds. It happens every year, over and over again.

 

Cowinkydink? I think not.

 

I think this is all the proof we need.

 

 

The team that drafted the Vikings, in the 7th ot 8th round in my league?

 

0 - 2 and are in 11th out of 14 in points scored.

[donhaas 19]

Why does there have to be all of this arguing?

 

I will take Chicago D/special teams who will consistently outpoint most other defenses and probably win me a few games along the way.

 

EdJr. will take James Jones who will be gold (GOLD I tells ya!!!) when Driver and Jennings go down with injuries..

 

 

It's win/win! No need to argue...

[WhiteWonder 2,928]

Why does there have to be all of this arguing?

 

I will take Chicago D/special teams who will consistently outpoint most other defenses and probably win me a few games along the way.

 

EdJr. will take James Jones who will be gold (GOLD I tells ya!!!) when Driver and Jennings go down with injuries..

It's win/win! No need to argue...

 

cool and while he takes james jones (didn't he put up good numbers as the 3rd option already?) and you take Chicago D, he will also grab the titans off waivers and have you beat in both areas.

[edjr 6,899]

Why does there have to be all of this arguing?

 

I will take Chicago D/special teams who will consistently outpoint most other defenses and probably win me a few games along the way.

 

EdJr. will take James Jones who will be gold (GOLD I tells ya!!!) when Driver and Jennings go down with injuries..

It's win/win! No need to argue...

 

Knowing you're on the side of drafting defenses early, just soldifies how bad of an idea it is.

 

Notice how I said for a FACT I drafted Philip Rivers this year in a spot people were drafting defenses? he's using James Jones?

[jgcrawfish 232]

I think this is all the proof we need.

The team that drafted the Vikings, in the 7th ot 8th round in my league?

 

0 - 2 and are in 11th out of 14 in points scored.

 

Guy that drafted the Chargers in the 6th in my league...record is 1-1 but 9th of 10 in pts scores, only victory was against the 10th of 10 guy who lost Tom Brady the opening week. I drafted 8th of 10 and have scored 143 more pts than him...more proof positive me thinks Ed.