Did Favre really make a difference?

[The Moz 69]

Seeing how Penny has played in Miami I can't see how it would have made any.. Farve has been solid but really what has he done other than 1 game to set the world a fire there? Isn't it more along the lines the Oline beefed up as well as the defense? Alos Brady injury likely didn't hurt either. Or did Farve just bring alot of leadership and savy that put them over the top. IMO looking at it I can't see the Jets any better or worse if Penny was QB in NY...

 

agree or disagree?

[Sho Nuff 719]

I think he made a difference with some attitude that team needed.

Gave them a leader and an identity that they needed.

Miami does not necessarily need it as much with the Tuna running the show.

I agree the Oline adding Faneca and another year under the belts of Ferguson and Mangold helped that offense alot.

As did the additions on the Dline...and of course the Brady injury.

 

I think its part of it...and if Penny would have played like this last year, I think he would still be starting for the Jets.

Or...we could imagine if I had stared this thread...Id be called a Favre hater.

[16 and 33 0]

3 months ago they were a team without hope.

 

I would say it would be difficult for you to misread the situation more completely.

 

Jenkins has been a difference maker on defense; Barton and the reserves stepped up when Harris got hurt; Revis is a real talent at corner. The O-line (4 1st round picks) has matured, Keller has emerged, TJ is having his 4th straight 1K season (and best ever), Leon leads the league in all purpose yards.

 

However...it all started with changing the mentaility. That was not going to happen with Chad (good guy, great leader, decent game manager, etc).

[kmbryant09 1]

3 months ago they were a team without hope.

 

I would say it would be difficult for you to misread the situation more completely.

 

Jenkins has been a difference maker on defense; Barton and the reserves stepped up when Harris got hurt; Revis is a real talent at corner. The O-line (4 1st round picks) has matured, Keller has emerged, TJ is having his 4th straight 1K season (and best ever), Leon leads the league in all purpose yards.

 

However...it all started with changing the mentaility. That was not going to happen with Chad (good guy, great leader, decent game manager, etc).

 

You can't actually tell me that Kris Jenkins is a beast because he has Brett Favre on the sidelines, or that the OLine is all of a sudden motivated to actually block b/c they have Favre behind them instead of Pennington, or that Favre makes TJ and Leon that much better...I understand the mentality changed around the Jets, but considering this is a completely different Favre (one to just control games, make a few throws here and there, rather than the gunslinger, try to win everygame Favre from GB), I think Favre has adapted more to the Jets than vise versa...

[KSB2424 3,082]

You can't actually tell me that Kris Jenkins is a beast because he has Brett Favre on the sidelines, or that the OLine is all of a sudden motivated to actually block b/c they have Favre behind them instead of Pennington, or that Favre makes TJ and Leon that much better...I understand the mentality changed around the Jets, but considering this is a completely different Favre (one to just control games, make a few throws here and there, rather than the gunslinger, try to win everygame Favre from GB), I think Favre has adapted more to the Jets than vise versa...

While I can't really prove what you are saying as wrong. I think that football, like most pro sports, is really hard to quantify in this way. Kris Jenkins his last year with the Panthers was awful. He was over weight and didn't care. Now all the sudden he is a pro bowler again. You figure it out. Some of these spoiled guys need certain motivation whether it be a change, or a guy like Favre on the team.

 

Just the name value may make opposing D coordinators not put 8 men in the box, helping the running game. Crap like that. Who knows what kind of value Favre really had, but it would be naive to think he didnot make a big difference.

[The Moz 69]

You can't actually tell me that Kris Jenkins is a beast because he has Brett Favre on the sidelines, or that the OLine is all of a sudden motivated to actually block b/c they have Favre behind them instead of Pennington, or that Favre makes TJ and Leon that much better...I understand the mentality changed around the Jets, but considering this is a completely different Favre (one to just control games, make a few throws here and there, rather than the gunslinger, try to win everygame Favre from GB), I think Favre has adapted more to the Jets than vise versa...

 

 

actually it is documented they pretty much run Brett's offense and Mangini let's Farve pretty much have as much control as he wants as long as they keep winning. Also Schotty Jr. I can't see arguing too much with Brett -- pretty much he say's Hey Brett what cha think - Brett goes no I want this - Schotty - of course you are right my fault.

[16 and 33 0]

You can't actually tell me that Kris Jenkins is a beast because he has Brett Favre on the sidelines, or that the OLine is all of a sudden motivated to actually block b/c they have Favre behind them instead of Pennington, or that Favre makes TJ and Leon that much better...I understand the mentality changed around the Jets, but considering this is a completely different Favre (one to just control games, make a few throws here and there, rather than the gunslinger, try to win everygame Favre from GB), I think Favre has adapted more to the Jets than vise versa...

 

You make some good points...chiefly (as I alluded to), there are many factors to the Jets success.

 

With the exception of maybe 3 game plans, Favre has been more of a check down QB this year - and I mean that in a good way, he's done a decent job.

 

The Jets had no vertical game whatsoever last year. They at least have the threat of one this year.

 

I'll go back to the original point, though. They never get on this roll, and don't become all of those things, without having the winners edge. The difference between 2007 and 2008 is primarily attitude. Other than 3 players (Favre, Jenkins, and Keller), it's pretty much the same core group.

 

ETA: and they did spend money before Favre got there...Faneca, et al...so they were going in the right direction. But I remember well how dismal their prospects seemed when it looked like another season of Pennington and Clemens. The turnaround is remarkable.

[kmbryant09 1]

While I can't really prove what you are saying as wrong. I think that football, like most pro sports, is really hard to quantify in this way. Kris Jenkins his last year with the Panthers was awful. He was over weight and didn't care. Now all the sudden he is a pro bowler again. You figure it out. Some of these spoiled guys need certain motivation whether it be a change, or a guy like Favre on the team.

 

Just the name value may make opposing D coordinators not put 8 men in the box, helping the running game. Crap like that. Who knows what kind of value Favre really had, but it would be naive to think he didnot make a big difference.

 

I certainly understand your point about not being able to quantify things, as the NFL does work in some mysterious ways....

 

But like someone said, there are wayyyy too many other parts of the Jets that are better. I can see how Favre makes the run game slightly better, or how he can open up the middle of the field for Keller with the threat of a deep ball...but their OLine is LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than they were last year (Faneca is an all-pro guard, and lets not forget Tony Richardson, perhaps the best blocking FB in the game right now), and I fail to believe that a change in QB effects how the Defensive Line plays, CBs play, defensive schemes etc. for the Jets. You can't tell me NFL players only play hard when they have a new proven QB on their team.... And with Kris Jenkins, you said it yourself, he needed a change from Carolina and got one...he lost about 40 LBs, and you can't tell me he did that only after hearing the Jets signed Favre late in the offseason...

 

Certainly there's a difference, whether it's in the #'s or not, but I refuse to believe Favre has made THAT BIG of a difference...

[RoadLizard 73]

You make some good points...chiefly (as I alluded to), there are many factors to the Jets success.

 

With the exception of maybe 3 game plans, Favre has been more of a check down QB this year - and I mean that in a good way, he's done a decent job.

 

The Jets had no vertical game whatsoever last year. They at least have the threat of one this year.

 

I'll go back to the original point, though. They never get on this roll, and don't become all of those things, without having the winners edge. The difference between 2007 and 2008 is primarily attitude. Other than 3 players (Favre, Jenkins, and Keller), it's pretty much the same core group.

 

ETA: and they did spend money before Favre got there...Faneca, et al...so they were going in the right direction. But I remember well how dismal their prospects seemed when it looked like another season of Pennington and Clemens. The turnaround is remarkable.

 

Agreed... hes been solid but the Jets as a TEAM have been 100% better than last year. Brett brings a legitimacy to the whole team though that Chad Pennington certainly did not.

[The Hood 9]

Packers went from 13-3 to 5-7

 

Jets 4-12 to 8-4

 

Yes injuries, other players, ect., all helped make up the reasons for the turn arounds but there's also got to be a lot of difference in having Favre lining up as your QB.

[kmbryant09 1]

Agreed... hes been solid but the Jets as a TEAM have been 100% better than last year. Brett brings a legitimacy to the whole team though that Chad Pennington certainly did not.

 

Chad Pennington is certainly bringing some legitimacy to a Dolphins team this year that has half the talent the Jets have...

[Sho Nuff 719]

Packers went from 13-3 to 5-7

 

Jets 4-12 to 8-4

 

Yes injuries, other players, ect., all helped make up the reasons for the turn arounds but there's also got to be a lot of difference in having Favre lining up as your QB.

 

The Packers lost much more to injury this year than last year.

Their defense is giving up 6+ points per game more...40 more rushing yards per game more...and has given up 17 rushing TDs to only 6 all of last year.

Favre has some effect...but not that much to this defense.

In addition...through 12 games...Rodgers has thrown about 600 fewer yards than Favre, just 2 fewer TDs (while rushing for a few also) and the same number of INTs than Favre through 12 games last year.

QB play has not been GB's issue with their record this year.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

i made a post like this a week or two ago.

 

In my opinion the single best offseason move of the year for any team was the Jets trading for Kris Jenkins. He has almost single handedly taken that rush defense from one that ranked in the high 20's to one that is right now 4th or 5th in the league?

 

beyond that the Jets also beefed up an o-line that was horrid last year and gave Chad and Clemens no help. I still think Clemens was a wasted draft pick and fully expect the Jets to look at drafting a QB this year to replace Favre.

 

another key to the Jets year has been the growth of Revis. He has really turned into a top 5 corner in this league and altho the Jets secondary has been the teams weak link, they have played much better the past 4 or 5 weeks (minus the Denver game).

 

Now on to Favre. Ive read a bunch of stuff claiming the Jets would be the same team with Pennington. After the first 4 or 5 weeks of the season I have to admit i was thinking it was true or even that they could have been a better team with a game manager like Penny under center. At the time Favre was making too many errors and lost a few games for us with picks and general poor play.

 

However, the more i think about it, I realize this team needed Favre. Just think back to the Thursday night game against New England. When the Pats came all the way back to tie the game you think a Pennington led Jets team would have had much faith? I think they would have been completely defeated. But as the saying goes when your QB is Brett Favre, theres always a chance. Bringing Favre over changed the entire attitude of this team. He makes them more relaxed and most importantly makes them think that no matter what, they can win any game.

[kmbryant09 1]

Favre has thrown 20 TDs to 14 INTs - not a very good ratio as he is tied for the league lead in INTs...Take away that 6 TD game against Arizona and it gets worse...He's thrown at least 1 INT in 9 of 12 games, including 7 INTs in 3 games against Cincy, Oakland, and KC...That was the old gunslinging Favre making mistakes for the Jets...At that point, Mangini and his staff realized they had a great team around Favre, including a running game, a great DEF, and one of the top Special Teams in the game, and they don't need Favre to win them games, just to manage and not lose them. Since then, he's only thrown 3 INTs in the last 5 games, going 4-1 with two very impressive wins.

 

It's pretty clear that Favre isn't putting up great #'s, let-alone MVP type numbers that some claim. Yes he has helped the mentality of this team and the Jets probably wouldn't be 8-4 without him, but this is not the same Brett Favre that is winning his team games...The team around him is stepping it up, making it easier for Favre to manage games...

[KSB2424 3,082]

In related news I think the chicken came before the egg.

[wiffleball 4,631]

While I am a huge beliver that the press gives Favre WAY too much credit - both in GB and NYJ, there's one thing that he brings that Penny doesn't.

 

 

Penny is penny. He isn't any better this year than he was last year - or the years before. H'e a smart cat who doesn't make mistakes. BUT - he's got ZERO long ball. When you don't have the long ball threat, safeties don't have to cover over the top. When they don't have to do that, all kinds of things are possible defensively. Favre brings that threat - which weakens any defense that Penny previously faced.

 

Adding Faneca was also a HUGE difference. But even with that, if you have all the time in the world, but STILL can't throw the long ball, it's not such an impact.

 

What I give Favre the most credit for is his ability to embrace the short dink and dunk. There was a time when he sure as hell wouldn't have done that. He wouldn't have done that in GB. Moving to a new team has humbled him a bit - and that's good.

 

Defensively, the JETS are interesting They sucked at the run last year and now are great at defending it. On the flip slide, they're just the opposite against the pass. So, overall, they're defensive is ranked basically in the same place as it was last season. - Not great givent the weakness of their division & their SOS.

 

Offensively, NYJ have radically improved in both Rush and Pass. That speaks to the long ball threat that Favre brings.

 

All in all, I see this as a win-win-win for all parties involved. GB had to move on. They've been decimated by injuries this year, but even with that, Aaron Rogers has More: Yards, the same TD's and less INT's than Favre. Plug favre's numbers into that team and they're still no better off.

 

NYJ are definitely an improved ball club as are the Dolfins.

[Sho Nuff 719]

While I am a huge beliver that the press gives Favre WAY too much credit - both in GB and NYJ, there's one thing that he brings that Penny doesn't.

Penny is penny. He isn't any better this year than he was last year - or the years before. H'e a smart cat who doesn't make mistakes. BUT - he's got ZERO long ball. When you don't have the long ball threat, safeties don't have to cover over the top. When they don't have to do that, all kinds of things are possible defensively. Favre brings that threat - which weakens any defense that Penny previously faced.

 

Adding Faneca was also a HUGE difference. But even with that, if you have all the time in the world, but STILL can't throw the long ball, it's not such an impact.

 

What I give Favre the most credit for is his ability to embrace the short dink and dunk. There was a time when he sure as hell wouldn't have done that. He wouldn't have done that in GB. Moving to a new team has humbled him a bit - and that's good.

 

Defensively, the JETS are interesting They sucked at the run last year and now are great at defending it. On the flip slide, they're just the opposite against the pass. So, overall, they're defensive is ranked basically in the same place as it was last season. - Not great givent the weakness of their division & their SOS.

 

Offensively, NYJ have radically improved in both Rush and Pass. That speaks to the long ball threat that Favre brings.

 

All in all, I see this as a win-win-win for all parties involved. GB had to move on. They've been decimated by injuries this year, but even with that, Aaron Rogers has More: Yards, the same TD's and less INT's than Favre. Plug favre's numbers into that team and they're still no better off.

 

NYJ are definitely an improved ball club as are the Dolfins.

 

Few things.

Penny is playing better this year than last.

While he has no long ball...he is averaging more per attempt this year (7.9)than Favre (6.9) and just barely less per attempt last year with the Jets (6.8)than Favre is now with the Jets. (now, obviously run after the catch plays into that...but its not as if Favre has not benefited from Washington's ability after short passes either)

 

And yes...Favre has mastered the dink and dunk...and its that which he has used the past 6 or so games like he did last year in GB as well. So saying he would not have done that is a bit off. McCarthy reigned him in more than Sherman and Rhodes ever tried and much closer to how Holmgren coached him.

[PackYourNut 47]

Just the name value may make opposing D coordinators not put 8 men in the box, helping the running game. Crap like that. Who knows what kind of value Favre really had, but it would be naive to think he didnot make a big difference.

 

 

I think this is the biggest difference... Not too mention Farve throwing 6 TD's early in the season... Defenses know he can beat them, you could NEVER say that about Pennington. Also, while Pennington has played well in Miami, he's not the reason Miami is in the playoff hunt!

[Sho Nuff 719]

I think this is the biggest difference... Not too mention Farve throwing 6 TD's early in the season... Defenses know he can beat them, you could NEVER say that about Pennington. Also, while Pennington has played well in Miami, he's not the reason Miami is in the playoff hunt!

 

Favre is not the only reason the Jets are in the playoff hunt either.

And yes, he threw 6 TDs in that one game early on...he also threw quite a few INTs in the first half of the season and was not playing all that well other than that zona game and the 2nd half of the SD game.

He has played much better recently for sure.

[BMoney 0]

who?

 

Im happy for chad...he cant throw long..but hes a smart qb..a likable guy..I think the wildcat offense has sparked that team more than anything else....

 

 

I never have a problem with a franchise moving on..and getting something for a guy instead of having him walk...

 

Just knowing what we know and all thats transpired, it is still mindblowing that it actually happened...the same people who bash Favres ego ignore TTs ego...

 

1 person in the local paper wrote today...Rodgers has been great, Brett, you are lucky you were traded to a contender... yeah, a contender that had only won 4 games last year and was an afterthought...he revived that franchise the same way the packers franchise has sunk...

 

Bretts not the only reason that the Jets are 8-4..but a key part...there were key FAs brought in also...whos keeping TT from signing anyone? the team is far enough under the cap..who is he waiting for?...

 

its kind of silly that so many people are happy with the Jets doing so well..FINALLY, someone I talked to figured it out..she said its true..how can you be so fired up that a NY team is doing so well when it should be us?...

 

its not as if favre shot himself..anyone else..or needed to go..he was an mvp candidate....

 

and i apologize on saying that tix were easy to get at face value.i was wrong as the paper points out today...thanks to a losing record, the economy and the departure of favre, tix for this weeks game are going for around $10 LESS than face value...

 

sign of the times here in packerland...thanks, ted

[The Moz 69]

who?

 

Im happy for chad...he cant throw long..but hes a smart qb..a likable guy..I think the wildcat offense has sparked that team more than anything else....

I never have a problem with a franchise moving on..and getting something for a guy instead of having him walk...

 

Just knowing what we know and all thats transpired, it is still mindblowing that it actually happened...the same people who bash Favres ego ignore TTs ego...

 

1 person in the local paper wrote today...Rodgers has been great, Brett, you are lucky you were traded to a contender... yeah, a contender that had only won 4 games last year and was an afterthought...he revived that franchise the same way the packers franchise has sunk...

 

Bretts not the only reason that the Jets are 8-4..but a key part...there were key FAs brought in also...whos keeping TT from signing anyone? the team is far enough under the cap..who is he waiting for?...

 

its kind of silly that so many people are happy with the Jets doing so well..FINALLY, someone I talked to figured it out..she said its true..how can you be so fired up that a NY team is doing so well when it should be us?...

 

its not as if favre shot himself..anyone else..or needed to go..he was an mvp candidate....

 

and i apologize on saying that tix were easy to get at face value.i was wrong as the paper points out today...thanks to a losing record, the economy and the departure of favre, tix for this weeks game are going for around $10 LESS than face value...

 

sign of the times here in packerland...thanks, ted

 

With Favre Playoff bound and GB maybe going 8-8 - is there any way TT retains his job??

[Sho Nuff 719]

1 person in the local paper wrote today...Rodgers has been great, Brett, you are lucky you were traded to a contender... yeah, a contender that had only won 4 games last year and was an afterthought...he revived that franchise the same way the packers franchise has sunk...

 

Its statements like this that show you have 0 credibility on the Favre issue.

[Sho Nuff 719]

With Favre Playoff bound and GB maybe going 8-8 - is there any way TT retains his job??

 

Umm...there is almost no way TT does not retain his job.

The people who control it agreed with him in moving on with Rodgers. They have nearly all been happy with the job he has done...and unlike some emotional fantasy football message board posters, they realize that the Jets did other things besides just Favre and that losing Favre is not even top 5 in the reasons the team is 5-7 right now.

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

ok, I 'm tired of people comparing Favre's stats to Rodgers' stats.

 

Favre is more of a rookie this year than Rodgers is. Rodgers has had three years to learn the offense, team, play with them and of course learn from Favre. Favre had to join a new team, learn a new offense, get adjusted, etc and without the luxury of an offense.

 

Furthermore, the Packers offense is much better than the Jets offense, especially at WR. Now you could say right now it's a tossup since Grant has had a horrible year while TJ and Leon have been outstanding. I think the great seasons they're having have a lot to do with Favre (and yes the O-line). Favre keeps defenses honest and Pennington did not.

[Sho Nuff 719]

ok, I 'm tired of people comparing Favre's stats to Rodgers' stats.

 

Favre is more of a rookie this year than Rodgers is. Rodgers has had three years to learn the offense, team, play with them and of course learn from Favre. Favre had to join a new team, learn a new offense, get adjusted, etc and without the luxury of an offense.

 

Furthermore, the Packers offense is much better than the Jets offense, especially at WR. Now you could say right now it's a tossup since Grant has had a horrible year while TJ and Leon have been outstanding. I think the great seasons they're having have a lot to do with Favre (and yes the O-line). Favre keeps defenses honest and Pennington did not.

 

Please...more of a rookie than Rodgers?

Fine...don't compare their stats this year.

Compare them through 12 games this year for Rodgers and 12 for Favre last year.

Favre would be leading by about 600 yards...have the same number of INTs, 2 more passing TDs, 4 fewer rushing TDs.

That in the offense he knew as a long time starting QB.

 

WR...its not like Favre is throwing to scrubs with Coles and Cotchery with Washington out of the backfield.

And he has a better Oline as well.

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

Please...more of a rookie than Rodgers?

Fine...don't compare their stats this year.

Compare them through 12 games this year for Rodgers and 12 for Favre last year.

Favre would be leading by about 600 yards...have the same number of INTs, 2 more passing TDs, 4 fewer rushing TDs.

That in the offense he knew as a long time starting QB.

 

WR...its not like Favre is throwing to scrubs with Coles and Cotchery with Washington out of the backfield.

And he has a better Oline as well.

 

And compare the MOST IMPORTANT STAT OF ALL... Packers record last year vs this year and Jets record last year vs this year.

 

END OF STORY!

[Sho Nuff 719]

And compare the MOST IMPORTANT STAT OF ALL... Packers record last year vs this year and Jets record last year vs this year.

 

END OF STORY!

 

You are comparing a team stat to individual stats.

Which leaves out things like how the defense gives up over 6 more points per game this year than last...and allows about 40 more yards on the ground per game than last year...and has allowed 17 rushing TDs through 12 games while they only allowed 6 all last year.

It ignores the additions of Faneca and Jenkins.

 

End of story? Hardly...try a shortsighted response that does not take so many factors of a team game into consideration.

 

Favre...on this Packer team...would not be much better if any at all in regards to what the Packers record might be.

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

Shonuff, the bottom line is you along with all the other Packers fans will be watching your beloved Bret Favre and the Jets in the playoffs while listening to Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy talk about next year. That's the problem with the Packers management, it's always about next year.

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

The Packers would've had a Super Bowl last year (and maybe even an undefeated season) had Ted Thompson not been such a egotistical moron and signed Randy Moss like Favre begged him to do. Could you imagine the trio of Moss, Jennings and Driver? Moss on the Packers would've meant no perfect season for the Patriots and no Super Bowl for the Giants. But no, a 4th round pick is far too precious for Thompson to part with. Knowing him, he would have taken that 4th round pick and turned it into two 5th rounders. Always, thinking about next year with Thompson. That's why instead of competing for a Super Bowl again the Packers are rebuilding and will continue to do so until Thompson is out.

[IndyFan 2]

You are comparing a team stat to individual stats.

Which leaves out things like how the defense gives up over 6 more points per game this year than last...and allows about 40 more yards on the ground per game than last year...and has allowed 17 rushing TDs through 12 games while they only allowed 6 all last year.

It ignores the additions of Faneca and Jenkins.

 

End of story? Hardly...try a shortsighted response that does not take so many factors of a team game into consideration.

 

Favre...on this Packer team...would not be much better if any at all in regards to what the Packers record might be.

 

Isn't the Packer team basically the same team returning from last year except Favre ?? If the Packer roster has remained fairly stable then the reason for their stuggles HAS to be the loss of Favre. I would agree that the resurgance of the Jets can't be attributed just to Favre because they made several big moves on both sides of the ball.

[BMoney 0]

Shonuff, the bottom line is you along with all the other Packers fans will be watching your beloved Bret Favre and the Jets in the playoffs while listening to Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy talk about next year. That's the problem with the Packers management, it's always about next year.

 

 

but it didnt HAVE to be that way.....people think it did...it never had to be...we HAD brett...mccarthy wanted brett...brett couldnt get over his hatred for tt....

 

some packers fans suffered because of the egos..and of course, mark murphy is ok with it...hes a new president...do you think this all wouldve went on had bob harlan still been president? no way...

 

everyone can twist the stats all they want...they knock favre for picks...ignore the bad throws that shouldve been picked off of rodgers..they knock the fact that favres been smart with the ball....

 

records..check the records..ie..scoreboard...

 

does pennington or rodgers lead the jets to a win over NE last month on thursday night? no way....that alone is a major reason why this was an early christmas present for the jets...

 

and no...TT wont be gone..he SHOULD be...but the backbone is quite small here..they are going to live off of the success of the favre era for awhile...favre made those 2 very rich...

 

but hey..on the bright side...u can get tix for $45 each to sundays game..whos in?

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

Isn't the Packer team basically the same team returning from last year except Favre ?? If the Packer roster has remained fairly stable then the reason for their stuggles HAS to be the loss of Favre. I would agree that the resurgance of the Jets can't be attributed just to Favre because they made several big moves on both sides of the ball.

 

I've noticed that there are two types of Packer fans this year.

 

You have the fans that can't believe a Super Bowl team has been shattered and a legend has been run out of town by management.

 

And you have the other type of fans that will defend anything and everything the Packers organization does because they're the Green Bay Packers. Sho Nuff falls under this category. He clearly can't accept the fact this team misses Favre and has made a number of terrible decisions lately.

 

The Packers had an amazing blend of youth and veterans and were clearly a Super Bowl contender with Favre back. Without him, they're out of the playoffs in a horrible division. This suddenly young team now has a ton of question marks all over the place. Aaron Rodgers is a very good QB and I've been impressed this season. But there's no way I would take him on the Packers this year over Favre. The team misses Favre and the Jets are happy to have him.

[BMoney 0]

The Packers would've had a Super Bowl last year (and maybe even an undefeated season) had Ted Thompson not been such a egotistical moron and signed Randy Moss like Favre begged him to do. Could you imagine the trio of Moss, Jennings and Driver? Moss on the Packers would've meant no perfect season for the Patriots and no Super Bowl for the Giants. But no, a 4th round pick is far too precious for Thompson to part with. Knowing him, he would have taken that 4th round pick and turned it into two 5th rounders. Always, thinking about next year with Thompson. That's why instead of competing for a Super Bowl again the Packers are rebuilding and will continue to do so until Thompson is out.

 

the reason they eventually said no was...moss was a bad apple..too big of a risk...that was a fair argument..but moss loves favre..it wouldve been huge...

 

i didnt realize that Barnett, Pickett and Jolly were such class guys...ahman green surely wasnt either...thank goodness ron wolf went and signed andre rison..if we worried about his personality then..who knows what happens in 96?....

 

fans were THRILLED when we passed on Moss...on the other end, the wide outs we have now are fantastic..but they couldve added Moss for a measly pick..

 

teams like the pats and jets arent afraid to give up a pick to secure at least 4 extra wins...

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

Yeah Moss loves Favre and it would've worked cause he wouldn't try to show up Favre just like he wouldn't show up Brady. That's why Moss was worth the risk. But like I mentioned before, a 4th round draft pick is much too valuable to Thompson. He's nothing more than a glorified scout that somehow is a GM. I'm sure Packers fans will be happy to see that Favre draft pick turn into a first rounder. Maybe Thompson could use it on another bust like Justin Harrell or AJ Hawk. Or use that 1st round pick on a WR which is the last place the Packers need help yet that was where he decided to go in last year's draft. Packers fans need to hope that Thompson and McCarthy go before they ruin this team anymore than they already have. This is a win now league and everyone realizes that except for Packers management.

[Little Big Head 6]

and fully expect the Jets to look at drafting a QB this year to replace Favre.

No way! Brett Ratliff will take over for Favre and be a very good QB. You heard it here first!

[AintNoStoppinMeNow 68]

No way! Brett Ratliff will take over for Favre and be a very good QB. You heard it here first!

 

I saw him a lot in the preseason and was impressed. A year under Favre should certainly help. I'm not sold on Clemens at all.

[PackYourNut 47]

Shonuff is delusional...

[p.man 7]

Chad was an accurate Qb who couldn't throw deep with any regularity. He simply ran out of time with most of the Jets fans.

As much as I liked Chad, it really was time to move on. I wish him luck, but not too much.

 

As far as Favre making a difference goes, the Jets have doubled their win total from last year and will probably win a few more. Tenn stacked the box and look at what happend. If Chad were the Qb that day I seriously doubt the outcome would have been the same.

 

I have said this before...When the Jets get themselves a top wr than they will jump to the next level. I like who we have at wr, but I feel the Jets biggest weekness is at the Wr position. They would be much better off if they could add a top wr.

 

D.Keller's targets have risin because he is really fast and is a big missmatch for the defense. He generates seperation.

The other wr's create no seperation, and that makes the Jets somewhat easier to defend.

 

We could use pass defense help too. I think that will happen at the next draft.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

deny it all you want but as others have mentioned, the simple fact we have someone under center with a cannon arm has made defenses honest and opened up the running game as a result.

 

Favre is not the biggest reason for this seasons turnaround but what he brings to the table can't be ignored... I love penny and was kind of upset he was let go in NY and am glad he is doing well in Miami. i went on record even in this forum and said i did not think trading for Favre would put us over the hump.... I was wrong in that regard.. perhaps he didn't put us over the hump as much as someone like Jenkins has, but his presence has inspired alot of those guys i think.

 

in my opinion GM of the year is a 2 man race. Tannanbaum and Rick McKay

 

but look at what the Jets did in the offseason.... almost everything has worked out. Trading for Favre, trading for Jenkins, signing Faneca, signing Woody, signing Richardson, drafting Keller.... the only move that has't paid off so far was picking Gholston.

[mrgymrat 0]

Brett the Jet gives them hope and sometimes that can go along way. Not being a J-E-T-S fan myself, I have listened to Mike Greenberg on Mike & Mike for years and if he is a typical Jets fan then hope is something the NYJ organization has lacked for some time.

 

Adding a 6-4 / 350lb 3-time Pro Bowler to stuff the middle of the line was just as important. Two stars converging at the right time to shift the fortunes of a franchise.

 

BUT, as last week proved, they're still not even the best team in NY (much less the NFL).