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What would it take to get Calvin in a Dynasty IDP league? I am thinking of trying to move D-Will or Stewart and would like to make an offer for Calvin. I was thinking of an offer along the lines of Stewart, a 2nd tier WR and a draft pick next year (this years draft already happened). Any chance I could get him for something along those lines. IF not, what would it take or is he untradeable.

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I would need a top QB, top 10 RB, and a solid developmental WR.

 

Megatron is about to step in and become slonething akin to Jerry Rice for years to come, a beast like that comes along to rarely...

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It would take King's Ransom to get me to deal this kid.

 

He's going to be a top WR for a long time. He's dominant, hard working and reasonably modest. I consider him untouchable.

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honestly Calvin is the type of player where right now you would have to give up way more than he is really worth to get him. Im not saying there is anything wrong with having to do that, but its just reality.

 

Much like the last guy said, Calvin owenrs probably view him as untradeable and would shy away from even a very fair deal. They most likely would only deal him if the trade is so lopsided that it isn't worth your time.

 

Stewart and lets say Greg Jennings should be a pretty fair deal for Calvin. But i doubt a CJ owner does that.

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Maybe you could get him for an up-and-comer WR and a top young QB (Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers) if the guy has absolutely no QB prospects. I'm talking "my QB depth is Jon Kitna, Tyler Thigpen, and Daunte Culpepper" kind of prospects. But probably not, even then.

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a Reggie Wayne / Ronnie Brown type of deal would likely get him -- anyhting less - no

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Nothing. I won't be able to replace that much value at that one roster spot. I wouldn't even trade him for a stud RB because stud WRs have longer shelf lives.

 

As for some of the suggestions above, the first rule of fantasy football is never trade a stud for multiple lesser players.

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What would it take to get Calvin in a Dynasty IDP league? I am thinking of trying to move D-Will or Stewart and would like to make an offer for Calvin. I was thinking of an offer along the lines of Stewart, a 2nd tier WR and a draft pick next year (this years draft already happened). Any chance I could get him for something along those lines. IF not, what would it take or is he untradeable.

 

I own Calvin in a dynasty PPR league. It would take A LOT more than D-Will or Stewart. I guess it all depends on the need of the team that owns him. I would say a top 10 RB (Lynch, Forte) and a #2 WR (Cotchery, Evans) to replace Calvin.

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honestly Calvin is the type of player where right now you would have to give up way more than he is really worth to get him. Im not saying there is anything wrong with having to do that, but its just reality.

 

Much like the last guy said, Calvin owenrs probably view him as untradeable and would shy away from even a very fair deal. They most likely would only deal him if the trade is so lopsided that it isn't worth your time.

 

Stewart and lets say Greg Jennings should be a pretty fair deal for Calvin. But i doubt a CJ owner does that.

 

I would agree...this would be a very fair offer.

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I own him and there are only 2 players I would trade him straight up for.... MJD and Chris Johnson. In a 2 for 1, Deangelo Williams or Stewart plus a Boldin caliber WR - or D Williams AND Stewart - would prolly get the job done.

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Nothing. I won't be able to replace that much value at that one roster spot. I wouldn't even trade him for a stud RB because stud WRs have longer shelf lives.

 

As for some of the suggestions above, the first rule of fantasy football is never trade a stud for multiple lesser players.

 

This is the answer..

 

:lol:

 

Stewart and anybody is a terrible trade.. Why would somebody swap Calvin for a backup RB?

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This is the answer..

 

:lol:

 

Stewart and anybody is a terrible trade.. Why would somebody swap Calvin for a backup RB?

 

Several reasons:

 

1. because Stewart is in a RBBC in the most potent running attack in the NFL - he's not a back-up at all, but a RB1(:headbanger: in that offense. EDIT: To clarify, I meant to say he put up what would be considered on many teams to be RB1-type numbers.

2. because he is clearly a stud in the making - did you watch ANY of Carolina's games last year? As a ROOKIE, and splitting time with DeAngelo, he had 836 rushing yards, 11 TDs and just over 4.5 YPC.

3. because he will be 'prime-time' rather sooner than later.

4. because if/when DeAngelo gets hurt, he is more capable than almost any other RB in the NFL of doing an ADP impression.

 

Even though I love Calvin, you package him with a top 12 WR and I'll sell Calvin Johnson off my team tommorrow. (Check out Calvin's rookie #s as a WR - If they came out in the same year, I think you'd have taken Stewart for your year 2 pick rather than Calvin.

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How 'bout Fitzy for CJ.....straight up. :mad:

 

I would, in a heartbeat. Fitzy is only 2 years older than CJ (25 and 23), had 100 more yards and nearly 20 more catches during the regular season and, most importantly, he doesn't play for the Lions! Fitzy is on a superbowl caliber team with a proven quarterback (at least for awhile), and he put up 550 friggin yards and 7 TD's in the post season, for cryin out loud.

 

But since I know that I could possibly get a decent RB (like a D. Ward or Land Whale) also, I would hold out for the 2 for 1 deal.........but I would trade CJ straight across for Fitzy......if I could.

 

Wouldn't you?

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Several reasons:

 

1. because Stewart is in a RBBC in the most potent running attack in the NFL - he's not a back-up at all, but a RB1(:mad: in that offense.

2. because he is clearly a stud in the making - did you watch ANY of Carolina's games last year? As a ROOKIE, and splitting time with DeAngelo, he had 836 rushing yards, 11 TDs and just over 4.5 YPC.

3. because he will be 'prime-time' rather sooner than later.

4. because if/when DeAngelo gets hurt, he is more capable than almost any other RB in the NFL of doing an ADP impression.

 

Even though I love Calvin, you package him with a top 12 WR and I'll sell Calvin Johnson off my team tommorrow. (Check out Calvin's rookie #s as a WR - If they came out in the same year, I think you'd have taken Stewart for your year 2 pick rather than Calvin.

 

Having 103 less touches than the other guy makes you a back-up. HTH. We can talk all day about "if" players get hurt all day, silly really.

 

D-Will just turned 26 and has 2 years on his contract.. Good luck with the 'prime time' sooner rather than later deal though..

Stewart is a nice player and all, but guys like him are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Players like Calvin are very few and far between.

 

On a side note I watched plenty of Carolina games last year. D-Will carried my broken down squad to a league championship... Stewart played well, but there was never any doubt about who the gamebreaker was in that offense. Anybody who wants to argue that doesn't really know football or didnt get the chance to see Carolina play. Or like some seem to have very revisionists history about what really happened last year, not sure which category you would fall in..

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Stewart may have been a 'back-up' but he had more rushing yards than 10 STARTING RBs in the NFL - and only 7 RBs in the NFL had more rushing TDs during the regular season (actually fewer than 7 if you count post-season play.)

 

I'm not arguing that Williams didn't firmly establish himself as a stud RB last year, but Stewart ain't exactly chopped liver either. Stewart had about as many rushing yards in his rookie year as Williams had in his 1st 2 years combined. And guys that average better than 4.5 YPC cannot be considered 'dime-a-dozen RBs in the NFL.

 

To repeat: couple Stewart with a Greg Jennings, Roddy White or a Anquan Boldin (or offer him even up for a MJD or a CJlll) and I'll make the trade in a heartbeat in any dynasty league.

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Stewart may have been a 'back-up' but he had more rushing yards than 10 STARTING RBs in the NFL - and only 7 RBs in the NFL had more rushing TDs during the regular season (actually fewer than 7 if you count post-season play.)

 

I'm not arguing that Williams didn't firmly establish himself as a stud RB last year, but Stewart ain't exactly chopped liver either. Stewart had about as many rushing yards in his rookie year as Williams had in his 1st 2 years combined. And guys that average better than 4.5 YPC cannot be considered 'dime-a-dozen RBs in the NFL.

 

To repeat: couple Stewart with a Greg Jennings, Roddy White or a Anquan Boldin (or offer him even up for a MJD or a CJlll) and I'll make the trade in a heartbeat in any dynasty league.

 

I think you just talked me into keping Stewart rather than try and make a deal for Calvin.

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I have Calvin Johnson and would not trade him for a package that included Jonathan Stewart and a low-end number one WR.

 

It boggles my mind that DeAngelo Williams is basically underrated even after last season. Too many fantasy players are so enamored with the "next big thing" that they overlook the proven player. Sure, Stewart COULD be a great back but he's in the wrong place at the wrong time. He'll get his share of carries and touchdowns, but DeAngelo had a monster season and John Fox is fiercely loyal to his veterans (see Stephen Davis and DeShaun Foster). Even IF DeAngelo got hurt, the job would be his when he got healthy.

 

Assuming DeAngelo stays healthy, the best case scenario for Stewart is a 50-50 split in carries and a 60-40 split in TDs. Is that, along with a receiver like Greg Jennings, enough to trade away a once-in-a-generation talent like Calvin Johnson? No way. Not even close.

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I would need a top QB, top 10 RB, and a solid developmental WR.

 

Megatron is about to step in and become slonething akin to Jerry Rice for years to come, a beast like that comes along to rarely...

 

:thumbsup:

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What would it take to get Calvin in a Dynasty IDP league? I am thinking of trying to move D-Will or Stewart and would like to make an offer for Calvin. I was thinking of an offer along the lines of Stewart, a 2nd tier WR and a draft pick next year (this years draft already happened). Any chance I could get him for something along those lines. IF not, what would it take or is he untradeable.

 

Well, it never hurts to make the offer, but If I was in his position I'd probably laugh at the offer unless it's a first round pick being packaged with it. (even then... not so keen)

 

just dont give him an insulting offer.

 

I've seen GM's come into dynasty hockey leagues (I know different sport, but same concept) and make insulting offers to a bunch of people and then complain that nobody wants to trade with them.

 

The fact of the matter is, if you lowball someone to a point where the deal is borderline insulting, they may refuse to trade with you in the future even if the offer is fair. (they'll always look at the offer and wonder what's wrong with it)

 

so I would tread carefully on this one.

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Fitz and a BJ from the owner's wife/gf/sister/mom/whoever

 

Whoever?

Can the "whoever" be John Madden?

Do you look anything remotely like Brett Favre?

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What would it take to get Calvin in a Dynasty IDP league? I am thinking of trying to move D-Will or Stewart and would like to make an offer for Calvin. I was thinking of an offer along the lines of Stewart, a 2nd tier WR and a draft pick next year (this years draft already happened). Any chance I could get him for something along those lines. IF not, what would it take or is he untradeable.

they next blonde/blue eyed son of the other person in trade...but really he has to be the hardest player to think about trading..i was in this position..i own him in a dynasty..and it just seems whatever you might get doesn't isnt enough...his ceiling is just to high to trade right now imo and most owners wont offer what it would even take to think about listening or taking the offer.

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I own Calvin in a dynasty PPR league. It would take A LOT more than D-Will or Stewart. I guess it all depends on the need of the team that owns him. I would say a top 10 RB (Lynch, Forte) and a #2 WR (Cotchery, Evans) to replace Calvin.

if you would tale Lynch and Cotchery for Calvin I think your in the wrong hobby.

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Stewart may have been a 'back-up' but he had more rushing yards than 10 STARTING RBs in the NFL - and only 7 RBs in the NFL had more rushing TDs during the regular season (actually fewer than 7 if you count post-season play.)

 

I'm not arguing that Williams didn't firmly establish himself as a stud RB last year, but Stewart ain't exactly chopped liver either. Stewart had about as many rushing yards in his rookie year as Williams had in his 1st 2 years combined. And guys that average better than 4.5 YPC cannot be considered 'dime-a-dozen RBs in the NFL.

 

To repeat: couple Stewart with a Greg Jennings, Roddy White or a Anquan Boldin (or offer him even up for a MJD or a CJlll) and I'll make the trade in a heartbeat in any dynasty league.

any openings in your leagues?

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What would it take to get Calvin in a Dynasty IDP league? I am thinking of trying to move D-Will or Stewart and would like to make an offer for Calvin. I was thinking of an offer along the lines of Stewart, a 2nd tier WR and a draft pick next year (this years draft already happened). Any chance I could get him for something along those lines. IF not, what would it take or is he untradeable.

If I'm the CJ owner you would have to make me an offer I could not refuse.

 

You started out saying you would willing to move D-Will. Then make make an offer with Stewart and a 2nd tier WR. A back up RB and a 2nd tier WR for what some say is a top WR for years to come.

 

I know you are trying to get value, but get real.

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a Reggie Wayne / Ronnie Brown type of deal would likely get him -- anyhting less - no

 

I wouldn't even consider that if i owned Calvin in a dynasty.

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If I had calvin johnson I would trade him... simply because you would never get more for him.

I would want two elite players: say brees and Jennings... if I needed a quarterback

or Slaton and moss

or roddy white/brees...

etc.

 

If you own calvin you should trade him for a good #1 wideout who can come close to the numbers and pick up the extra exceptional player...

 

Too much uncertainty in fantasy...

jdon

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There was a similar thread on here last year after week 3. It was about Brandon Marshall. People gave pretty much the same responses (an RB1, a promising young WR, the moon, the stars, etc.). I'm not saying the Calvin Johnson will experience a similar fall from grace, but those who believe that Johnson will the carry the same astronomical value for the next 6-8 years are neglecting the fickle nature of our hobby. I love Johnson. He's a special talent and will have a great career. But he will have his ebbs and flows like anyone else. If a Herschel Walker-type deal crosses your desk, you should at least consider it. As jdon said, his value will never be higher.

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There was a similar thread on here last year after week 3. It was about Brandon Marshall. People gave pretty much the same responses (an RB1, a promising young WR, the moon, the stars, etc.). I'm not saying the Calvin Johnson will experience a similar fall from grace, but those who believe that Johnson will the carry the same astronomical value for the next 6-8 years are neglecting the fickle nature of our hobby. I love Johnson. He's a special talent and will have a great career. But he will have his ebbs and flows like anyone else. If a Herschel Walker-type deal crosses your desk, you should at least consider it. As jdon said, his value will never be higher.

 

Calvin is a once in a lifetime WR akin to Randy Moss and Jerry Rice (and Fitzgerald). While I agree this sport is for the most part fickle, there are certain players that will play for 10+ years at elite levels and Calvin is one of them.

 

Marshall is no where near the same value of Calvin. He's a physical freak, who works/plays hard and keeps his mouth shut. I would not trade him.

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Calvin is a once in a lifetime WR akin to Randy Moss and Jerry Rice (and Fitzgerald).

 

you realize you just named 4 once in a life time players... where does terrell owens fit in here? How about Andre Johnson these days?

once in a lifetime? to quote Guillen 'pfft... please'

 

love,

jdon

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you realize you just named 4 once in a life time players... where does terrell owens fit in here? How about Andre Johnson these days?

once in a lifetime? to quote Guillen 'pfft... please'

 

love,

jdon

 

Ok take "once and a lifetime" and change to extremely rare. Bottom line is that these guys are not your typical player who is in the NFL for 5 years or so. With the frequency in turnover of NFL players, these guys are pretty damn impressive and unusual.

 

How long did/have those guys played at elite levels (with the exception of Calvin so far) and right out of school? Pretty long and all were at about or above 1,000 yds their first season.

 

I don't think AJ is there just yet (though I am a big fan), he's been injured way too much and hasn't had monster seasons (with the exception of last year). TO has been fantastic, but he wasn't that way out of the gate. It took him a bit to get going. So no, I wouldn't put those two there.

 

Calvin will be around for 10+ years and produce at a stud level (barring injury of course).

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good gawd you guys are theatrical...

 

1 Johnson Andre WR HOU 20.50

2 Fitzgerald Larry WR ARI 19.81

3 Johnson Calvin WR DET 17.75

4 Jennings Greg WR GNB 16.75

5 Marshall Brandon WR DEN 16.75

6 Smith Steve WR CAR 16.63

7 White Roddy WR ATL 16.63

8 Boldin Anquan WR ARI 16.25

9 Bryant Antonio WR TAM 15.88

10 Welker Wes WR NWE 15.50

11 Owens Terrell WR DAL 14.94

12 Wayne Reggie WR IND 14.69

13 Royal Eddie WR DEN 14.63

14 Moss Randy WR NWE 14.56

15 Moore Lance WR NOR 14.50

 

Those are the top 15 WR scorers in a PPR dynasty, per game average.

 

2007:

1 Moss Randy WR NWE 24.38

2 Owens Terrell WR DAL 19.94

3 Wayne Reggie WR IND 19.56

 

2006:

1 Harrison Marvin WR IND 18.94

2 Owens Terrell WR DAL 17.88

3 Driver Donald WR GNB 17.63

 

2005:

1 Smith Steve WR CAR 21.69

2 Fitzgerald Larry WR ARI 19.56

3 Johnson Chad WR CIN 18.88

 

2004:

1 Muhammad Muhsin WR CAR 20.81

2 Horn Joe WR NOR 19.25

3 Walker Javon WR GNB 18.94

 

The reality here is that there's historically very little that separates the #1 WR from the #3 WR. Over 5 years (2004 - 2008) the averages are this:

 

WR#1 21.264

WR#2 19.288 (-1.976)

WR#3 18.552 (-0.736)

 

However, the difference from #1 to #2 was extremely skewed by 2007, where Randy Moss averaged nearly 5 pts more per game than the next best WR in a HISTORICALLY good season for both QB and WR on his team on a heavily pass oriented offense. That's an anomoly. The average without difference between #1 and #2 without that season is -1.36. And from #2 to #3 is even smaller, less than 1 pts. Calvin probably brings a "set it and forget" certainty about his #'s that other WR don't bring, but all things considered, I don't see him as any more untouchable than Fitz and not much more untouchable than Greg Jennings. There's a fallacy about the longevity of the WR. Yes, their careers are longer, but typically they don't perform at the same level from season to season for reasons that are not within their control. Jerry Rice gets brought up a lot regarding Calvin, but Jerry had the benefit of back to back HOF QB's throwing to him and a coach who pioneered a nearly unstoppable offense. At this point, unless you have a great WR coupled with an experienced/great QB who still has years left, you can't get Jerry Rice

 

That being said, this year will be the tell-tale year for Calvin. If Stafford develops, with a solid running back in Kevin Smith and they can get better offensive line play, then Calvin's ceiling is the highest I've seen for any WR since perhaps Moss with young Culpepper. If that happens, then his value is actually higher next year, and this would be the time to buy. In fact, I would argue that his value is somewhat depressed right now because of the rookie QB that likely will be steering the ship. Fitz is nearly as young and has the better track record thus far, but faces the uncertainty of Warner being gone possibly next year. Andre Johnson is older than both and has a history of injuries. Jennings has the makings of something special for a good while with Rodgers there and a weak defense.

 

Getting back to the subject. If I had Calvin and a hole at RB, and somebody offered me Stewart and Greg Jennings, I think I likely take that deal knowing that I'll get more pts out of Stewart and Jennings combined. However, on the other side of the coin, if I had Stewart and Jennings and still had a good RB core, I would definitely look into moving them both for Calvin. It all depends on the strength of your roster and the weakness of the guy with Calvin.

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a Reggie Wayne / Ronnie Brown type of deal would likely get him -- anyhting less - no

 

I own CJ in a dynasty league and wouldn't consider Wayne/Brown for him. Wayne has seen his best days. Brown doesn't do it for me.

 

I think everyone here is right. It isn't worth trading for CJ as the amount it would take for me to consider would be looked at as ridiculous.

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good gawd you guys are theatrical...

Those are the top 15 WR scorers in a PPR dynasty, per game average.

 

2007:

2006:

2005:

2004:

The reality here is that there's historically very little that separates the #1 WR from the #3 WR. Over 5 years (2004 - 2008) the averages are this:

 

WR#1 21.264

WR#2 19.288 (-1.976)

WR#3 18.552 (-0.736)

 

However, the difference from #1 to #2 was extremely skewed by 2007, where Randy Moss averaged nearly 5 pts more per game than the next best WR in a HISTORICALLY good season for both QB and WR on his team on a heavily pass oriented offense. That's an anomoly. The average without difference between #1 and #2 without that season is -1.36. And from #2 to #3 is even smaller, less than 1 pts. Calvin probably brings a "set it and forget" certainty about his #'s that other WR don't bring, but all things considered, I don't see him as any more untouchable than Fitz and not much more untouchable than Greg Jennings. There's a fallacy about the longevity of the WR. Yes, their careers are longer, but typically they don't perform at the same level from season to season for reasons that are not within their control. Jerry Rice gets brought up a lot regarding Calvin, but Jerry had the benefit of back to back HOF QB's throwing to him and a coach who pioneered a nearly unstoppable offense. At this point, unless you have a great WR coupled with an experienced/great QB who still has years left, you can't get Jerry Rice

 

That being said, this year will be the tell-tale year for Calvin. If Stafford develops, with a solid running back in Kevin Smith and they can get better offensive line play, then Calvin's ceiling is the highest I've seen for any WR since perhaps Moss with young Culpepper. If that happens, then his value is actually higher next year, and this would be the time to buy. In fact, I would argue that his value is somewhat depressed right now because of the rookie QB that likely will be steering the ship. Fitz is nearly as young and has the better track record thus far, but faces the uncertainty of Warner being gone possibly next year. Andre Johnson is older than both and has a history of injuries. Jennings has the makings of something special for a good while with Rodgers there and a weak defense.

 

Getting back to the subject. If I had Calvin and a whole at RB, and somebody offered me Stewart and Greg Jennings, I think I likely take that deal knowing that I'll get more pts out of Stewart and Jennings combined. However, on the other side of the coin, if I had Stewart and Jennings and still had a good RB core, I would definitely look into moving them both for Calvin. It all depends on the strenght of your roster and the weakness of the guy with Calvin.

 

 

Why is Stewart the RB everyone keeps using in examples? Has his value gone up while I was sleeping? Didn't D Will have an amazing year and thus solidify his value on that team?

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If I had calvin johnson I would trade him... simply because you would never get more for him.

I would want two elite players: say brees and Jennings... if I needed a quarterback

or Slaton and moss

or roddy white/brees...

etc.

 

If you own calvin you should trade him for a good #1 wideout who can come close to the numbers and pick up the extra exceptional player...

 

Too much uncertainty in fantasy...

jdon

 

 

I would take the Brees offers for sure. I would think other owners wouldn't offer this much though. That seems like a lot.

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If I had calvin johnson I would trade him... simply because you would never get more for him.

I would want two elite players: say brees and Jennings... if I needed a quarterback

or Slaton and moss

or roddy white/brees...

etc.

 

If you own calvin you should trade him for a good #1 wideout who can come close to the numbers and pick up the extra exceptional player...

 

Too much uncertainty in fantasy...

jdon

 

 

huh? how would you never get more for him? He was #3 wr with no QB all year in his sophomore year, no way Stafford cant be better than Orlofsky(sp?) or Kitna in which he got these numbers. He is all they got, he will get the ball.

 

also on your trade options: who would actually offer up those people? Honestly, it would be an easy option to trade CJ for the #1 QB and a top 10 Wr that you are sayin, but no way anyone would offer that. Those options you put up are never gonna happen if you are playin with semi intelligent people.

 

Also the people sayin they would take the trade of Stewart and a WR for CJ... why would u want Stewart? At best he will be splitting carries with D. Williams for a bit, Williams is young and is coming off a career year. Unless Williams gets hurt, playing Stewart any week would seem risky to me.

 

I have CJ in a PPR league too and no way I would trade him. If you have glaring holes in your team then yes I would think about it but it would take a lot to move him, his potential is just sky high for years to come.

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