cbfalcon 824 Posted October 14, 2009 Not the most complete WR, the most complete player. Im not saying DeSean is a better WR than Calvin straight up at that position. If the ball is in the hands of Calvin Johnson vs. DeSean, I like my chances of scoring better with DeSean. Agree to disagree Returning punts isn't nearly important enough to elevate someone into a best player discussion. The #1 guy is usually about 5 yards better than the #10 guy. It matters, but 5 yards avg field position difference isn't as much of a game changer as a WR being double teamed is, or a defense having to put an extra guy in the box is. And even if it was such a big deal, then sure DJax is #1 this season by 2 yards, but last year he was 16th. And that sample size was bigger. Plus, then we'd have to start considering Reggie Bush. And that invalidates any discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,541 Posted October 14, 2009 I said solid QB play; I even bolded it. JeMarcus Russell might be the worst statistical QB in the history of the world. The Raiders really are not that bad. You put an above average QB on that team (doesn't have to be an elite guy) and they are a .500 if not better. How many pts did teh Eagles hang on them the other week? Champ Bailey has never really been on that many good teams yet he is the best CB of the last 10 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,192 Posted October 14, 2009 A lot of this thread got sidetracked on who would get drafted first, vs. who is the best player. The best player IMO is the person who sticks out the most above his peers at his position. This is why I think Jerry Rice is the greatest player of all time, with apologies to Deacon Jones, who may be the one if they had kept sack stats during his entire career. That being said, I voted Manning. With apologies to Brees (who I would have listed over Brady), there is nobody nearly as good as him in the league. Honorable mention to AP, Troy, and Nmadi. Allen, I don't think stands out as much above the rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,541 Posted October 14, 2009 A lot of this thread got sidetracked on who would get drafted first, vs. who is the best player. The best player IMO is the person who sticks out the most above his peers at his position. This is why I think Jerry Rice is the greatest player of all time, with apologies to Deacon Jones, who may be the one if they had kept sack stats during his entire career. That being said, I voted Manning. With apologies to Brees (who I would have listed over Brady), there is nobody nearly as good as him in the league. Honorable mention to AP, Troy, and Nmadi. Allen, I don't think stands out as much above the rest. I disagree that this topic is or should be about the player who sticks out most over his peers. It is just "Who is the best player in the NFL". The 2 best players can come from the same position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,192 Posted October 14, 2009 I disagree that this topic is or should be about the player who sticks out most over his peers. It is just "Who is the best player in the NFL". The 2 best players can come from the same position. But in that case you are merely picking the best player (or 2) at the position you deem most important and/or difficult. I can somewhat accept this argument at QB because it is so unique; otherwise to say AP is better than Nmadi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted October 14, 2009 A lot of this thread got sidetracked on who would get drafted first, vs. who is the best player. The best player IMO is the person who sticks out the most above his peers at his position. This is why I think Jerry Rice is the greatest player of all time, with apologies to Deacon Jones, who may be the one if they had kept sack stats during his entire career. That being said, I voted Manning. With apologies to Brees (who I would have listed over Brady), there is nobody nearly as good as him in the league. Honorable mention to AP, Troy, and Nmadi. Allen, I don't think stands out as much above the rest. I've always agreed on Rice. He is the only player at any position that would get 100 out of 100 votes as to who the best player ever was at his position. Lawrence Taylor is probably 2nd as I think he'd get the next highest % of votes for his position. Not sure after that. Maybe Deion Sanders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
listen2me 23 1,541 Posted October 15, 2009 But in that case you are merely picking the best player (or 2) at the position you deem most important and/or difficult. I can somewhat accept this argument at QB because it is so unique; otherwise to say AP is better than Nmadi... I just look at it as the player you would want on your team if your organization depended on it. Obviously position comes into play, it has to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tubby_mcgee 686 Posted October 15, 2009 Ryan Clady - Through 21 games he is yet to allow a sack. Neither has Flozell Adams. Although that includes two trips, and three tackles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CantTouchThis 23 Posted October 15, 2009 How do people put AJ above Moss? Last year was AJ's only elite year. And even then, Moss had more TDs with a backup QB throwing to him. Moss has had 8 seasons with more TDs than AJ's career high. Moss has 8 of 11 seasons over 1000 yards. Johnson has 3 of 6. Moss has 8 of 11 seasons over 10 TDs. Johnson is 0 for 6. I just don't get the lack of respect for Randy Moss in this topic. He hasn't shown anything to indicate he is past his prime yet. We've all seen that if Brady was even close to being on, Moss would have another 200 yards and 4 TDs this season as well. Oh, i wasn't arguing who has had a better career. Besides Rice and maybe Marvin, Moss is the best ever at the position. However, i would rather have both Andre Johnson and Fitz right now...and Moss and Johnson are neck and neck. I think Calvin has the most raw talent out of any WR in the league and i think that him and Stafford are going to be the next Manning-Harrison, cept Calvin is much more explosive. I think Calvin could end up being better than all of them, but he is still raw. Now, Moss 2-3 years ago, absolutely, i think that year on offense for the Pats is MUCH more attributed to Moss's ability than Brady's ability. I mean, it was when it doubt, lob it to Moss, and he came down with it over and over again, it was amazing. He is NOT past his prime, but he is on the tail end of his prime. I think Andre has more ability than him now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted October 15, 2009 Im getting this suspicious feeling from the commitee DeSean is a bad choice. Its not his fault he plays in a system that spreads the ball around as much as Philly does, im talking about his capabilities as a rounded player which I felt at least deserved consideration. From a punt return standpoint, he gives you better field positioning than any of the rest of the mentioned players, and probably better than any other punt returner in the NFL, huge positive since field position is key in most games. His WR ability while only in his second year, could match Torry Holts in his prime if he got the looks and passes IMHO, and Holt was considered the best WR for a breif time there. Then, with his speed and talent he can be used for the wildcat or end arounds, and probably is/could be more effective on end arounds than any other NFL player. If there is a faster more sure handed WR in the NFL, fill me in. Im more impressed with what I see in him as a complete player than any other WR in the NFL right now Personally im torn between Peyton and Polamalu Dood, let it go. You're embarrassing yourself here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,545 Posted October 15, 2009 You're embarrassing yourself here. You get used to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted October 15, 2009 Seriously, if I didn't know better, I would have been sure the Moz had started this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLS 313 Posted October 15, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vuoUJaiY5E The play at 1:05 is freakin sick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted October 15, 2009 Oh, i wasn't arguing who has had a better career. Besides Rice and maybe Marvin, Moss is the best ever at the position. However, i would rather have both Andre Johnson and Fitz right now...and Moss and Johnson are neck and neck. I think Calvin has the most raw talent out of any WR in the league and i think that him and Stafford are going to be the next Manning-Harrison, cept Calvin is much more explosive. I think Calvin could end up being better than all of them, but he is still raw. Now, Moss 2-3 years ago, absolutely, i think that year on offense for the Pats is MUCH more attributed to Moss's ability than Brady's ability. I mean, it was when it doubt, lob it to Moss, and he came down with it over and over again, it was amazing. He is NOT past his prime, but he is on the tail end of his prime. I think Andre has more ability than him now. I understand the difference, but I just don't see the signs that indicate Moss isn't as good a WR right now as he was last year or the year before. if Brady was even hitting 50% of those deep balls that he'd normally hit 90% of the time, Moss would easily be leading the league in yards and TDs right now. Going back to the draft part of the discussion. In a redraft league with all NFL GMs, Moss still should be 1st or 2nd WR off the board.....Dynasty draft, sure AJ would be first because he probably has 7 more years of prime compared to Moss's 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JT 137 Posted October 15, 2009 Why not on this seasons performance aren't Antwon Odom or Elvis Dummervil considered then? And they don't have close to the talent Allen has next to him. I went with Allen because, in addition to doing everything you want from a player at that position, he has also put points on the board each of the last two weeks. But if you think it's that close between he and the other guys, no problem. I'll drop consideration of anyone but Manning, because it's not that close between he and any other QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackie sherrill 0 Posted October 16, 2009 Hard to argue with Peyton... but, if I'm talking about the best football player in the NFL, I've said for several years now... It's Anquan Boldin - based on pure football ability He played QB in college. He catches everything thrown anywhere near him. He's tough as freaking nails.... and he's as good and dangerous after the catch with the ball in his hand as anybody in the league. Just throwing my opinion and a different view out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted October 16, 2009 Hard to argue with Peyton...but, if I'm talking about the best football player in the NFL, I've said for several years now... It's Anquan Boldin - based on pure football ability He played QB in college. He catches everything thrown anywhere near him. He's tough as freaking nails.... and he's as good and dangerous after the catch with the ball in his hand as anybody in the league. Just throwing my opinion and a different view out there. So the op claims the 25th best WR is the best player in the NFL, and now we got another guy claiming the 10th best WR is the best player in the NFL. Brilliant! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted October 16, 2009 So the op claims the 25th best WR is the best player in the NFL, and now we got another guy claiming the 10th best WR is the best player in the NFL. Brilliant! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackie sherrill 0 Posted October 17, 2009 So the op claims the 25th best WR is the best player in the NFL, and now we got another guy claiming the 10th best WR is the best player in the NFL. Brilliant! 25th, 10th... WTF "rankings" are you talking about? Did you read anything I wrote? I made two things clear, I was talking about pure football ability and it was my mothafocking opinion... I realize it's one that's not going to be popular I also said it's hard to argue against Peyton... but, where Peyton is a much better passer than Boldin, Boldin can do it (play QB) and has done it for a legitimate - well, Florida State - team. I would be willing to bet that Boldin can run faster, catch better, run better routes, tackle better, elude tacklers better, jump higher, on and on and on... so, what makes you be the end all be all to decide that just because a guy is the best thrower in the game that he is the best overall football player? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itsbigmoni 1 Posted October 17, 2009 I understand the difference, but I just don't see the signs that indicate Moss isn't as good a WR right now as he was last year or the year before. if Brady was even hitting 50% of those deep balls that he'd normally hit 90% of the time, Moss would easily be leading the league in yards and TDs right now. Going back to the draft part of the discussion. In a redraft league with all NFL GMs, Moss still should be 1st or 2nd WR off the board.....Dynasty draft, sure AJ would be first because he probably has 7 more years of prime compared to Moss's 3. 60% of the time it works everytime? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kutulu 1,545 Posted October 21, 2009 Hines Ward is the most complete WR in the NFL. Not sure if anyone outside of Pittsburgh has noticed, but Ward is putting the foundation in place for a career season. With Sunday’s 159 receiving yards and a touchdown, he’s now got 599 receiving yards this season. Heath Miller’s(notes) play in the red zone is taking away some of Ward’s touchdown opportunities, but he’s still having a very impressive year. Considering his overall contributions to a game – receiving, blocking and leadership, there aren’t many receivers you would pick over him right now if you absolutely needed a guy to help you win one contest. link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dain11279 927 Posted October 21, 2009 I'm not sure who the best player is but I know who's the most swiftest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yer mom 2 Posted October 27, 2009 After watching him enough, its evident that he may have the highest probablility to take it to the house of any NFL player when he has the ball. Add that he has exceptional hands and from overall player standpoint, he deserves to be on the list. Then, with his speed and talent he can be used for the wildcat or end arounds, and probably is/could be more effective on end arounds than any other NFL player. Highest probability to take it to the house- Probably a check End arounds- Check Would put up ridiculous numbers with more looks and/or had a QB with an arm- Check 2 touches, two TD's 3rd and 23? DeSean burnt that secondary so bad he made a fair catch to run it in. Its fun embarrassing myself, I really dont know what im talking about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yer mom 2 Posted December 14, 2009 Ahead of the prognosticators as always, nothing new here. DeSean is so much better than people think, just a matter if he touches the ball or not Thanks for playing though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peenie 1,690 Posted December 14, 2009 well...i can't really argue that peyton manning is good. he's consistent, he's a play maker but i like drew brees and larry fitzgerald. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
