Dynasty Draft Talk - Quarter Back's

[RLLD 3,455]

1) Jimmy Clausen ~ 6'3", 217lbs ~ Perhaps the best QB in the draft. Has shown the skills to be successful in the NFL, and has had the luxury of working in a "pro-style" offense at Notre Dame. Likely drafted by - The Redksins? blech.....

 

2) Colt McCoy ~ 6'2", 212lbs ~ Lacks the kind of size that draws serious attention from NFL scouts and teams. Likely a second round pick with likely suitors being the Vikings, Cardinals and Bengals. One might drop him a notch or two due to his performance likely being elevated by playing for such a good college team, but he is worthy of being taken as the second QB in your dynasty league IMHO

 

3) Tim Tebow ~ 6'3", 245lbs ~ We already know all about him. My main concern is whether or not he can develop the ability to read NFL defenses, avoid injury in the NFL and fix his throwing motion. I place him as an early second round pick, likely going to either Cleveland, St Louis or perhaps even Tampa Bay.

 

4) Tony Pike ~ 6'6", 210lbs ~ Prototypical NFL size. Has a strong arm, though he seems to arc his long passes a bit(JMHO). He also seems to have trouble with his throwing motion while moving that leads to off-target throws on those down-field throws (again JMHO). I think he has the potential to be another Flacco (not that Flacco is yet that great) But I think he could start right away in the NFL. Likely drafted in early second round to perhaps Oakland, Buffalo or Seattle.

 

5) Sam Bradford ~ 6'4", 223lbs ~ Great size, great physical ability and perhaps no other QB in this draft has the head for playing in the nFL that this kid does. BUT - the injury is a pretty significant concern, and if you are looking for good return on your dynasty draft pick you would wait to draft this kid unless there was more information to ease concerns. If he were roundly heralded as healthy and back to full form, he could emerge as the #1 QB in the draft. I think he could likely be taken just about anywhere in the coming draft. If he slides past Oakland, Buffalo and Washington in the early first, he perhaps makes it back to them in the early second......its hard to know right now on January 4th

 

6) Jevan Snead ~ 6'3", 218lbs ~ Snead is below the radar right now, and one can make a case for going with Locker, Mallet and perhaps LeFevour here. But I see some things with this guy that I love. He does need to develop his progressions a bit, but I think an NFL QB coach can help him greatly there. I think his potential is impressive. If you watch his game films he seems to improve as the game progresses and slowly makes adjustments on his own 0- the kid is smart and savvy and with NFL-level coaching could easily emerge as a tangible FF QB in a few years. I say just watch where he goes, and look for him later in your draft.

[jgcrawfish 232]

1) Jimmy Clausen ~ 6'3", 217lbs ~ Perhaps the best QB in the draft. Has shown the skills to be successful in the NFL, and has had the luxury of working in a "pro-style" offense at Notre Dame. Likely drafted by - The Redksins? blech.....

 

2) Colt McCoy ~ 6'2", 212lbs ~ Lacks the kind of size that draws serious attention from NFL scouts and teams. Likely a second round pick with likely suitors being the Vikings, Cardinals and Bengals. One might drop him a notch or two due to his performance likely being elevated by playing for such a good college team, but he is worthy of being taken as the second QB in your dynasty league IMHO

 

3) Tim Tebow ~ 6'3", 245lbs ~ We already know all about him. My main concern is whether or not he can develop the ability to read NFL defenses, avoid injury in the NFL and fix his throwing motion. I place him as an early second round pick, likely going to either Cleveland, St Louis or perhaps even Tampa Bay.

 

4) Tony Pike ~ 6'6", 210lbs ~ Prototypical NFL size. Has a strong arm, though he seems to arc his long passes a bit(JMHO). He also seems to have trouble with his throwing motion while moving that leads to off-target throws on those down-field throws (again JMHO). I think he has the potential to be another Flacco (not that Flacco is yet that great) But I think he could start right away in the NFL. Likely drafted in early second round to perhaps Oakland, Buffalo or Seattle.

 

5) Sam Bradford ~ 6'4", 223lbs ~ Great size, great physical ability and perhaps no other QB in this draft has the head for playing in the nFL that this kid does. BUT - the injury is a pretty significant concern, and if you are looking for good return on your dynasty draft pick you would wait to draft this kid unless there was more information to ease concerns. If he were roundly heralded as healthy and back to full form, he could emerge as the #1 QB in the draft. I think he could likely be taken just about anywhere in the coming draft. If he slides past Oakland, Buffalo and Washington in the early first, he perhaps makes it back to them in the early second......its hard to know right now on January 4th

 

6) Jevan Snead ~ 6'3", 218lbs ~ Snead is below the radar right now, and one can make a case for going with Locker, Mallet and perhaps LeFevour here. But I see some things with this guy that I love. He does need to develop his progressions a bit, but I think an NFL QB coach can help him greatly there. I think his potential is impressive. If you watch his game films he seems to improve as the game progresses and slowly makes adjustments on his own 0- the kid is smart and savvy and with NFL-level coaching could easily emerge as a tangible FF QB in a few years. I say just watch where he goes, and look for him later in your draft.

 

I'm glad you posted this. My PPR/IDP Dynasty team is hurting in 2 areas, WR and QB (we get big bonuses for QB play). A lot of this is going to depend on where these guys get drafted. I'm not sure what the deal is with Washington. Campbell actually looked pretty damned respectable down the stretch. As a guy who watched McCoy at Texas for a long time, I'm not sold completely on him. I'm not sure the arm strength is there, and his offense is bit gimmicky. I will say the kid has "it", he's a competitor and doesn't know how to quit. But quietly Jerrod Johnson @ Texas A&M has put up almost the same #'s as McCoy with 1/2 the team around him.

 

I'm with you on Bradford. If the shoulder heals and doesn't show any signs of weakness, some NFL team is gonna get a steal, and lots of dynasty owners who hold onto him will as well. Kid just has a head for the game.

 

Clausen i haven't seen much of (admittedly I'm not a Notre Dame fan and tend to avoid having them shoved down my throat by the NotreDame Broadcast Company). He's really improved his stock this year and was kind of the only bright spot on a team that had high aspirations and disappointed.

[RLLD 3,455]

Jerrod Johnson @ Texas A&M

 

I will dig up what I can on him and start coming up with an opinion.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Jerrod Johnson @ Texas A&M

 

I will dig up what I can on him and start coming up with an opinion.

 

More than likely not coming out this year, I believe he's a junior and staying another season. Underrated QB and kind of the only bright spot on the Aggies as well.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Not a very good draft at QB in my opinion. If I was an NFL team, I'm not sure I'd want to waste a high pick on a QB this year. Same can be said for dynasty drafts. The only QB I think could end up playing, and playing well early is Sam Bradford. As pointed out, it will depend on his health. I think he is the best QB in this draft talent wise though. I also would consider taking a flyer on a Jake Locker later in a dynasty draft. I think he may be the 2nd or 3rd best QB in this upcoming draft. I'm not too high on McCoy, Tebow, Pike, et al, or even Claussen for where you'll have to take him.

 

I agree with you somewhat on Snead, but in my opinion, he REALLY needs to go back to school. He can work on these things while playing in college against a very tough SEC.

[9-Route 0]

jimmy clausen---charlie "weis-guy" playbook product, same stats piled up using receiver duo; brady quinn 2.0 ??

 

coly mccoy---same conference, same story. jason white, chase daniel, graham harrell, colt brennan [diff conf, same system], they're all the same. vince young? better legs, still long on development. these guys cant pass on nfl quality coverage because they have never seen anything close [reason they get smoked by sec coverages].

 

tim tebow---basically 4 qtrs of nfl potential passing between last yr's sec chmpshp and natnl chmp games; concy game was joke; mechanics are low and slow; bull running in college wont tranlate in open field in nfl [derrick brooks speaking to raiders players after jacking gannon, who held his head after not sliding down and getting hit: "tell him to slide man, tell him to slide".] qb wise, project at best' intangibles wise, great asset.

 

tony pike---body, mechanics, stats = roth 2.0??

 

sam bradford---ummm, done. period. like building a car's front bumper with charmain extra soft reinforced with northern quilted. even if he clears medically [which i dont believe he will], how the hell can u commit the most important position on the field and hefty salary to a guy who is a hit away from sitting?? chad pennington 2.0 already, and he hasnt played a down.

 

jevan snead---best prototype among these candidates. smart for leaving big12 conf and heading for sec, gaining better training against better defensive competition. last yr was great, showed great command and poise; this yr was a disaster; mike wallace heading to nfl hurt [?]; his decision making crashed; best served staying in school and becoming top selection next yr.

 

jerrod johnson---reggie mcneal 2.0 ??

[jgcrawfish 232]

jimmy clausen---charlie "weis-guy" playbook product, same stats piled up using receiver duo; brady quinn 2.0 ??

 

coly mccoy---same conference, same story. jason white, chase daniel, graham harrell, colt brennan [diff conf, same system], they're all the same. vince young? better legs, still long on development. these guys cant pass on nfl quality coverage because they have never seen anything close [reason they get smoked by sec coverages].

 

tim tebow---basically 4 qtrs of nfl potential passing between last yr's sec chmpshp and natnl chmp games; concy game was joke; mechanics are low and slow; bull running in college wont tranlate in open field in nfl [derrick brooks speaking to raiders players after jacking gannon, who held his head after not sliding down and getting hit: "tell him to slide man, tell him to slide".] qb wise, project at best' intangibles wise, great asset.

 

tony pike---body, mechanics, stats = roth 2.0??

 

sam bradford---ummm, done. period. like building a car's front bumper with charmain extra soft reinforced with northern quilted. even if he clears medically [which i dont believe he will], how the hell can u commit the most important position on the field and hefty salary to a guy who is a hit away from sitting?? chad pennington 2.0 already, and he hasnt played a down.

 

jevan snead---best prototype among these candidates. smart for leaving big12 conf and heading for sec, gaining better training against better defensive competition. last yr was great, showed great command and poise; this yr was a disaster; mike wallace heading to nfl hurt [?]; his decision making crashed; best served staying in school and becoming top selection next yr.

 

jerrod johnson---reggie mcneal 2.0 ??

 

i gotta disagree on the Bradford part. Guy injured the shoulder but didn't get surgery because he wanted a chance to come back to help his team. Then got the exact same injury because it wasn't structurally as strong as it had been previously. Brees had a similar injury which ushered in his departure from San Diego, and now he's widely considered among the best QB's in the NFL, isn't considered an injury risk and actually has a stronger arm now than he did prior to the injury. So long as Bradford gets the time he needs to recover and strengthen I think he's a bargain.

[Stewburtx8 67]

i gotta disagree on the Bradford part. Guy injured the shoulder but didn't get surgery because he wanted a chance to come back to help his team. Then got the exact same injury because it wasn't structurally as strong as it had been previously. Brees had a similar injury which ushered in his departure from San Diego, and now he's widely considered among the best QB's in the NFL, isn't considered an injury risk and actually has a stronger arm now than he did prior to the injury. So long as Bradford gets the time he needs to recover and strengthen I think he's a bargain.

 

 

Agree with this. I don't see how you can just write off Bradford until we see where he is at in April. To me he has the most talent of any QB coming out. You could be right and he may never fully recover, but to completely write him off right now would be a mistake in my opinion.

[enis_44 0]

Agree with this. I don't see how you can just write off Bradford until we see where he is at in April. To me he has the most talent of any QB coming out. You could be right and he may never fully recover, but to completely write him off right now would be a mistake in my opinion.

How about the fact that he throws 3/4 side-arm? Why doesn't that ever come up? Oh, and he's always hurt.

[RLLD 3,455]

How about the fact that he throws 3/4 side-arm? Why doesn't that ever come up? Oh, and he's always hurt.

 

The mechanics of the throwing motion are rather important in the NFL, and motions such as side arm and Tebow's low drop are problematic, and must be fixed.

[Stewburtx8 67]

How about the fact that he throws 3/4 side-arm? Why doesn't that ever come up? Oh, and he's always hurt.

 

 

Its a concern, but not many QB's come to the NFL with perfect mechanics. Bradford's size and quick release off set this somewhat sidearm delivery a lot in my opinion. Again, I'd like to see if he participates in the combine and how he looks leading up to the draft before I pass a ultimate judgement on him. I'm just saying I wouldn't write him off, but you could end up being right.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Its a concern, but not many QB's come to the NFL with perfect mechanics. Bradford's size and quick release off set this somewhat sidearm delivery a lot in my opinion. Again, I'd like to see if he participates in the combine and how he looks leading up to the draft before I pass a ultimate judgement on him. I'm just saying I wouldn't write him off, but you could end up being right.

 

more than likely he's not going to do the combine, well, not throw anyway. the prevailing thought is that he and Clausen (toe surgery today) will both wait to do anything until their Pro days. With Locker withdrawing, there won't be much top QB action at the combine this year.

[edjr 5,564]

I have Tony Romo, I am quite happy

[jgcrawfish 232]

I have Tony Romo, I am quite happy

 

dude in my league has Romo and Big Ben, focker won't trade me one of them

[RLLD 3,455]

dude in my league has Romo and Big Ben, focker won't trade me one of them

 

 

Sometimes owners can be reasonable, but most of the time they really don't want to trade them, so when the occasion arises they price themselves right out of the trade. They are funny like that. I appreciate the guys who flat out refuse to trade.

[nobody 2,038]

Locker said he's returning to Washington. What's the story on Snead? Can't imagine he'd go in the first two rounds. Don't see why he would come out.

[RLLD 3,455]

Locker said he's returning to Washington. What's the story on Snead? Can't imagine he'd go in the first two rounds. Don't see why he would come out.

 

I suspect Snead will stay as well. As the commits unfold over the coming weeks I will be honing my lists ever further; and adding threads for the WR's and RB's, and then later the IDP players as well.

[jgcrawfish 232]

 

Sometimes owners can be reasonable, but most of the time they really don't want to trade them, so when the occasion arises they price themselves right out of the trade. They are funny like that. I appreciate the guys who flat out refuse to trade.

 

I've offered Eli + a pick in the past for either of them (high 2nd round, about the 14th pick overall if I recall). Honestly, it's a difference of about 4 pts per game on my roster, which to me is a really high price to pay for 4 measly points. no go. it'd be one thing if i was asking him to give up 4 pts per game, but there's really no drop off between the Romo puts up vs Ben. So he gets top 12 qb as his backup and a pick, but it's not good enough???

[RLLD 3,455]

I've offered Eli + a pick in the past for either of them (high 2nd round, about the 14th pick overall if I recall). Honestly, it's a difference of about 4 pts per game on my roster, which to me is a really high price to pay for 4 measly points. no go. it'd be one thing if i was asking him to give up 4 pts per game, but there's really no drop off between the Romo puts up vs Ben. So he gets top 12 qb as his backup and a pick, but it's not good enough???

 

You are taking a rather logical approach. But the other owner is clearly indicating an emotional attachment to the players that transcends their intrinsic value. I would not trade with the guy, it will never work.

[9-Route 0]

Agree with this. I don't see how you can just write off Bradford until we see where he is at in April. To me he has the most talent of any QB coming out. You could be right and he may never fully recover, but to completely write him off right now would be a mistake in my opinion.

 

if i understood the headlines/disclosed info correctly, they had different injuries. if so, they have differing prognoses.

 

bradford had a sprained ac [acromioclavicular] joint, which is comprised of two major sets of ligaments above and below the joint which stabilize it. when there is a sprain, the ligaments are stretched, often displaced, and once restabilized, there is always propensity for reinjury, especially when 1] you heal with the mostly observed non-surgical modalities, and 2] are subjected to recurrent destabilization trauma [ie big mean guys trying to kill you and shoving you to the grass on pass plays]. hence, he already has had a repeat injury.

 

brees had a torn labrum, which is the structural portion of the gh [glenohumeral] joint onto which the ligaments and, more importantly, tendons of the muscles which comprise the rotator cuff attach. surgical repair of the labrum and/or the rotator cuff are much more efficacious and documented, as well as the visible results in performance athletes injuring, treating, and recovering from such injuries. thus, we see him performing at an elite level with zero complications or remembrance of the injury. guys like chad pennington have had the rotator cuff repaired twice with multi-yr performance post-recovery.

 

again, i'm not saying this as end all, know all, i just feel the uphill battle for bradford is kilimanjaro-esque, combining his poor system/conf pedigree and this injury. [if he becomes montana, don't hold it against me].

[ringotomb 0]

if i understood the headlines/disclosed info correctly, they had different injuries. if so, they have differing prognoses.

 

bradford had a sprained ac [acromioclavicular] joint, which is comprised of two major sets of ligaments above and below the joint which stabilize it. when there is a sprain, the ligaments are stretched, often displaced, and once restabilized, there is always propensity for reinjury, especially when 1] you heal with the mostly observed non-surgical modalities, and 2] are subjected to recurrent destabilization trauma [ie big mean guys trying to kill you and shoving you to the grass on pass plays]. hence, he already has had a repeat injury.

 

brees had a torn labrum, which is the structural portion of the gh [glenohumeral] joint onto which the ligaments and, more importantly, tendons of the muscles which comprise the rotator cuff attach. surgical repair of the labrum and/or the rotator cuff are much more efficacious and documented, as well as the visible results in performance athletes injuring, treating, and recovering from such injuries. thus, we see him performing at an elite level with zero complications or remembrance of the injury. guys like chad pennington have had the rotator cuff repaired twice with multi-yr performance post-recovery.

 

again, i'm not saying this as end all, know all, i just feel the uphill battle for bradford is kilimanjaro-esque, combining his poor system/conf pedigree and this injury. [if he becomes montana, don't hold it against me].

MMMMM big words

[Stewburtx8 67]

if i understood the headlines/disclosed info correctly, they had different injuries. if so, they have differing prognoses.

 

bradford had a sprained ac [acromioclavicular] joint, which is comprised of two major sets of ligaments above and below the joint which stabilize it. when there is a sprain, the ligaments are stretched, often displaced, and once restabilized, there is always propensity for reinjury, especially when 1] you heal with the mostly observed non-surgical modalities, and 2] are subjected to recurrent destabilization trauma [ie big mean guys trying to kill you and shoving you to the grass on pass plays]. hence, he already has had a repeat injury.

 

brees had a torn labrum, which is the structural portion of the gh [glenohumeral] joint onto which the ligaments and, more importantly, tendons of the muscles which comprise the rotator cuff attach. surgical repair of the labrum and/or the rotator cuff are much more efficacious and documented, as well as the visible results in performance athletes injuring, treating, and recovering from such injuries. thus, we see him performing at an elite level with zero complications or remembrance of the injury. guys like chad pennington have had the rotator cuff repaired twice with multi-yr performance post-recovery.

 

again, i'm not saying this as end all, know all, i just feel the uphill battle for bradford is kilimanjaro-esque, combining his poor system/conf pedigree and this injury. [if he becomes montana, don't hold it against me].

 

 

You always have waaay too much information and insight that makes it hard for me to make much of a rebuttal. Same thing often happened in the GM Scratch Draft.

 

By that I mean, thanks for this information. I think the repeat injury was also somewhat of a case of him trying to come back too fast and help his team and bring his draft stock back up, but we will see how he looks in the upcoming months I guess. All this does is reaffirm my stance that this is a pretty weak QB class when the guy I like the best is still a big concern, especially with Locker and Snead both likely returning to school.

[9-Route 0]

sorry stew, just wanted to back up my stance, didn't mean to overuse the occupational talk [although i find it necessary sometimes when guys here, not present company, try to question points of view.]

 

i agree, the qb class is weak and terrible. i feel badly for the teams needing qb in this draft---there is no talent. the defensive tackle position is the elite group at the top, featuring superstar 4-3 player suh and 3-4 nose tackle cody. the offensive tackles are deep, but we need to see evaluations to determine whether there is any [if at all] separation among them [brown, campbell, davis, etc].

 

teams like carolina are fortunate to have potentially found there guy, while detroit and tampa drafted a guy last yr which looks to be solid for their future. the rams, browns, and skins are not so lucky, as they did not find future solutions this yr, and need a qb in this poor market.

[enis_44 0]

sorry stew, just wanted to back up my stance, didn't mean to overuse the occupational talk [although i find it necessary sometimes when guys here, not present company, try to question points of view.]

 

i agree, the qb class is weak and terrible. i feel badly for the teams needing qb in this draft---there is no talent. the defensive tackle position is the elite group at the top, featuring superstar 4-3 player suh and 3-4 nose tackle cody. the offensive tackles are deep, but we need to see evaluations to determine whether there is any [if at all] separation among them [brown, campbell, davis, etc].

 

teams like carolina are fortunate to have potentially found there guy, while detroit and tampa drafted a guy last yr which looks to be solid for their future. the rams, browns, and skins are not so lucky, as they did not find future solutions this yr, and need a qb in this poor market.

Funny cause everyone in the D last year was so pissed about Stafford saying that 2010 was gonna be such a far superior Qb draft. Now the 2010 Qb draft looks like a bunch of turds. Not that Stafford is anything good yet, but he's better than the current options this season.

[Dan 59]

dude in my league has Romo and Big Ben, focker won't trade me one of them

 

Sometimes what happens is overcompensation.

 

In my second dynasty league, I drafted Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Now, fiscally, they are going to be tough to hang onto for very long. But I must be careful not to "give one away." It's easy for that to happen, because another may look and say, "He doesn't need both of those; I should be able to get one cheap." My attitude is, "I'm not giving one of them away; I want good value in return."

 

The overcompensation comes in protection against the expected lowball offer(s) that I will likely hear.

[enis_44 0]

Sometimes what happens is overcompensation.

 

In my second dynasty league, I drafted Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Now, fiscally, they are going to be tough to hang onto for very long. But I must be careful not to "give one away." It's easy for that to happen, because another may look and say, "He doesn't need both of those; I should be able to get one cheap." My attitude is, "I'm not giving one of them away; I want good value in return."

 

The overcompensation comes in protection against the expected lowball offer(s) that I will likely hear.

My brother has had Brees and Brady since 2006 in our Dynasty league. He has tried to trade one or the other, but it's impossible when like you said nobody offers fair value when they think someone has someone they don't need.

[RLLD 3,455]

sorry stew, just wanted to back up my stance, didn't mean to overuse the occupational talk [although i find it necessary sometimes when guys here, not present company, try to question points of view.]

 

i agree, the qb class is weak and terrible. i feel badly for the teams needing qb in this draft---there is no talent. the defensive tackle position is the elite group at the top, featuring superstar 4-3 player suh and 3-4 nose tackle cody. the offensive tackles are deep, but we need to see evaluations to determine whether there is any [if at all] separation among them [brown, campbell, davis, etc].

 

teams like carolina are fortunate to have potentially found there guy, while detroit and tampa drafted a guy last yr which looks to be solid for their future. the rams, browns, and skins are not so lucky, as they did not find future solutions this yr, and need a qb in this poor market.

 

 

No apology. It's only too rare that someone uses actual thought and analysis as a basis for their ideas on a player. I know I lack the zeal to type so much on my own ideas, and rarely put the effort forth.

 

I love it that you explain your position in such clearly outlined logic.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Sometimes what happens is overcompensation.

 

In my second dynasty league, I drafted Rodgers and Roethlisberger. Now, fiscally, they are going to be tough to hang onto for very long. But I must be careful not to "give one away." It's easy for that to happen, because another may look and say, "He doesn't need both of those; I should be able to get one cheap." My attitude is, "I'm not giving one of them away; I want good value in return."

 

The overcompensation comes in protection against the expected lowball offer(s) that I will likely hear.

 

right, and at the same time i'm not willing to hurt my team further over a 4 pt swing in offensive average. I understand his view, but I also thought that Eli Manning + 2.02 pick was very fair for Roethlisberger, particularly since last year wasn't as good a season for him.

[RLLD 3,455]

right, and at the same time i'm not willing to hurt my team further over a 4 pt swing in offensive average. I understand his view, but I also thought that Eli Manning + 2.02 pick was very fair for Roethlisberger, particularly since last year wasn't as good a season for him.

 

 

I think what you have found is that the trade is just wrong for you.

 

The end result is that he keeps the two QB's, and ultimately his "best" return is that no one is able to use either one against him, and there is a value to be found in that strategy too.

 

Therefore, the two will waste away on his roster, with their main value be situational from game to game, and they never "hurt" his team.

 

Whatever......

 

A confident owner would use the value to bolster his team elsewhere and also enhance with some reasonable draft picks, and proceed with the notion that he can keep making good player selections, and does not have to hold on to players in that manner.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I think what you have found is that the trade is just wrong for you.

 

The end result is that he keeps the two QB's, and ultimately his "best" return is that no one is able to use either one against him, and there is a value to be found in that strategy too.

 

Therefore, the two will waste away on his roster, with their main value be situational from game to game, and they never "hurt" his team.

 

Whatever......

 

A confident owner would use the value to bolster his team elsewhere and also enhance with some reasonable draft picks, and proceed with the notion that he can keep making good player selections, and does not have to hold on to players in that manner.

 

Unfortunately, I can't knock the guy, take a gander at his roster:

 

QB: Romo, Roethilisberger

RB: Jones-Drew, ADP, Tim Hightower, Justin Forsett, Chester Taylor, Jerious Norwood

WR: Fitzgerald, Jennings, Marshall, Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones

TE: Finley, Carlson

 

Bear in mind it's a PPR league, flex for RB/WR/TE. That's about as stacked a team as you can get, so the guy is obviously doing something right. He went 12-1 on the season and lost in the championship game. At least I have piece of mind in saying that I'm not among the many people he's fleeced to build up that powerhouse.

 

Edit: of course, I should add that the guy who beat him sports this:

 

QB: Schaub

RB: Gore, Ray Rice

WR: Randy Moss, Andre Johnson

TE: Dallas Clark, Jason Witten

 

My team has such a long way to go to compete with those guys...

[Dan 59]

right, and at the same time i'm not willing to hurt my team further over a 4 pt swing in offensive average. I understand his view, but I also thought that Eli Manning + 2.02 pick was very fair for Roethlisberger, particularly since last year wasn't as good a season for him.

 

I understand this thinking . . . BUT . . . from my standpoint (sake of argument), I don't care about the difference in points that you're looking to net. That has no bearing on my intentions in the trade. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm thinking of my team, and the value I get in return for my gem. If I don't get that value, then yes, he sits on my bench, but he's not on someone else's roster . . . potentially hurting me.

 

Now, a couple of other things. Who I'm trading with has had an impact in the past. Is it a division opponent? Is there team in general stiff competition, or still struggling to get better? Those things have weighed in.

Second, regarding trade value. You mention Eli and 2.02. You can say the the deal is fair, and it probably is. But I would not take it. For two reasons. First, I'm not a fan of Eli or his lack of consistency. So I wouldn't do it with the player involved. Second, you're offering me a guy who will be a backup QB for me, and will only play one week. So your offer is fair from your standpoint, but my intention in trading away one of the QBs is to strengthen the whole of my team, perhaps upgrading an area of weakness. I can get a prospect QB to "train" in that backup role. So from this standpoint as well, there is no value in this trade for me. I'm giving away a top-7 QB for a 2nd round dynasty pick. Just perspective.

 

I've been on both sides. I just happen to be on the really deep side right now.

[Stewburtx8 67]

No apology. It's only too rare that someone uses actual thought and analysis as a basis for their ideas on a player. I know I lack the zeal to type so much on my own ideas, and rarely put the effort forth.

 

I love it that you explain your position in such clearly outlined logic.

 

 

Oh I agree completely. No apologies necessary. I love how he always lays out his arguments and points of view completely. I try to do this when I can, but I don't always have the time. If anyone wants to get some good information on just about any player in the NFL, look at his round by round commentary from the GM Scratch Draft board.

 

I just meant it jokingly because he doesn't leave a whole lot of room for rebuttal, which is what he should do.

[Stewburtx8 67]

I understand this thinking . . . BUT . . . from my standpoint (sake of argument), I don't care about the difference in points that you're looking to net. That has no bearing on my intentions in the trade. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm thinking of my team, and the value I get in return for my gem. If I don't get that value, then yes, he sits on my bench, but he's not on someone else's roster . . . potentially hurting me.

 

Now, a couple of other things. Who I'm trading with has had an impact in the past. Is it a division opponent? Is there team in general stiff competition, or still struggling to get better? Those things have weighed in.

Second, regarding trade value. You mention Eli and 2.02. You can say the the deal is fair, and it probably is. But I would not take it. For two reasons. First, I'm not a fan of Eli or his lack of consistency. So I wouldn't do it with the player involved. Second, you're offering me a guy who will be a backup QB for me, and will only play one week. So your offer is fair from your standpoint, but my intention in trading away one of the QBs is to strengthen the whole of my team, perhaps upgrading an area of weakness. I can get a prospect QB to "train" in that backup role. So from this standpoint as well, there is no value in this trade for me. I'm giving away a top-7 QB for a 2nd round dynasty pick. Just perspective.

 

I've been on both sides. I just happen to be on the really deep side right now.

 

 

Very good points Dan. It's why trading is often difficult. Yes, the trade may be fair, BUT it has to fit the needs of both teams. In this case, the guy with Romo and Roethlisberger has a pretty loaded team. He really has no need to trade one of his QB's unless it upgrades his current roster. His team is already extremely young and loaded with pro bowl talent, therefore draft picks really don't help him that much. He is in "win NOW" mode. For him to trade one of his QB's, he would need to be improving his current starting roster in my opinion. It would take a Andre Johnson and Eli Manning for Greg Jennings and Tony Romo type trade for him to maybe feel the need to budge on either of his QB's. Otherwise, he is just fine carrying both of them, playing matchups, and not letting anyone else use them against him. Trading with a team this loaded is going to be pretty difficult, because he doesn't have a whole lot of room for improvement. Tight end I guess would be the one spot he could try to get a Gates or Clark maybe.

[Dan 59]

Very good points Dan. It's why trading is often difficult. Yes, the trade may be fair, BUT it has to fit the needs of both teams. In this case, the guy with Romo and Roethlisberger has a pretty loaded team. He really has no need to trade one of his QB's unless it upgrades his current roster. His team is already extremely young and loaded with pro bowl talent, therefore draft picks really don't help him that much. He is in "win NOW" mode. For him to trade one of his QB's, he would need to be improving his current starting roster in my opinion. It would take a Andre Johnson and Eli Manning for Greg Jennings and Tony Romo type trade for him to maybe feel the need to budge on either of his QB's. Otherwise, he is just fine carrying both of them, playing matchups, and not letting anyone else use them against him. Trading with a team this loaded is going to be pretty difficult, because he doesn't have a whole lot of room for improvement. Tight end I guess would be the one spot he could try to get a Gates or Clark maybe.

 

Clark, Gates, Vernon Davis. Now I'm listening. Maybe talk to me with a couple really good depth players that we can start mixing.

 

I had an owner - same league as the Rodgers/Roethlisberger combo - approach me an offer to try to get AP. Initially, I felt he was the charts. When we talked and he finally came into the discussion with a good offer, the key pieces were AP (me) and Andre Johnson (him). I covet, on an annual basis, Andre Johnson like nobody's business. It's almost disturbing. But I ultimately turned down the offer. Right now? I would take it. But then, AP was my only "sure thing" RB, and my WRs were loaded. Look:

 

RB: Adrian Peterson, Joseph Addai, Donald Brown, Tim Hightower, Jamaal Charles

 

WR: Greg Jennings, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Devin Hester, Hakeem Nicks, Eddie Royal (oops)

 

This was about week 5 . . . before the emergence of Charles, and while Addai was not carrying a huge load for an Indy offense that wasn't clicking on all cylinders yet.

 

I turned down the offer, telling him that the offer was very fair - it was - but AJ was a bauble, a luxury, whereas AP was a need. I couldn't get rid of him.

 

You're right, Stew. Needs have to match up.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I understand this thinking . . . BUT . . . from my standpoint (sake of argument), I don't care about the difference in points that you're looking to net. That has no bearing on my intentions in the trade. I understand where you're coming from, but I'm thinking of my team, and the value I get in return for my gem. If I don't get that value, then yes, he sits on my bench, but he's not on someone else's roster . . . potentially hurting me.

 

Now, a couple of other things. Who I'm trading with has had an impact in the past. Is it a division opponent? Is there team in general stiff competition, or still struggling to get better? Those things have weighed in.

Second, regarding trade value. You mention Eli and 2.02. You can say the the deal is fair, and it probably is. But I would not take it. For two reasons. First, I'm not a fan of Eli or his lack of consistency. So I wouldn't do it with the player involved. Second, you're offering me a guy who will be a backup QB for me, and will only play one week. So your offer is fair from your standpoint, but my intention in trading away one of the QBs is to strengthen the whole of my team, perhaps upgrading an area of weakness. I can get a prospect QB to "train" in that backup role. So from this standpoint as well, there is no value in this trade for me. I'm giving away a top-7 QB for a 2nd round dynasty pick. Just perspective.

 

I've been on both sides. I just happen to be on the really deep side right now.

 

Again, i completely see your point (and his as well). I went back and looked, in 15 possible starts, he played Romo in 7, Ben in 7 and had a replacement QB in 1. Either way it's a 50% split on the playing time, or obviously he's playing the matchups. I went back and compared what he got vs what he could have gotten on a week by week basis He made right call on the QB spot 7 times, made the wrong call on the QB spot 8 times. Ben was the better scoring QB 8 times, Romo 7 times. Let's say assume that he played Big Ben for most of the season, based on the true premise that he scored more points in that league AND was more consistent as well (which he was). The difference in pts on the season was .5 per game, minimal to say the least. I'm trying to chart the difference between what he had, what he could have had, and what he could have had with Eli vs one of the other two. I believe I can make a case that not only would he not have lost anything in trading one of them, he likely would have actually gained from not picking the wrong QB so frequently not mention picking up a draft pick (for what it's worth, I also had a late 1st round pick that would have probably done in lieu of the early 2nd round pick. again, my contention is that not only would it not have weakened his team, but could have strengthened his team with that extra pick.

[enis_44 0]

2nd round Dynasty picks are only worth so much.

I'd rather have Romo or Roeths than Eli + some random Wr project who will prolly flame out.

 

(note: I understand you can find talent there, it's just the odds aren't with you)

[Dan 59]

Again, i completely see your point (and his as well). I went back and looked, in 15 possible starts, he played Romo in 7, Ben in 7 and had a replacement QB in 1. Either way it's a 50% split on the playing time, or obviously he's playing the matchups. I went back and compared what he got vs what he could have gotten on a week by week basis He made right call on the QB spot 7 times, made the wrong call on the QB spot 8 times. Ben was the better scoring QB 8 times, Romo 7 times. Let's say assume that he played Big Ben for most of the season, based on the true premise that he scored more points in that league AND was more consistent as well (which he was). The difference in pts on the season was .5 per game, minimal to say the least. I'm trying to chart the difference between what he had, what he could have had, and what he could have had with Eli vs one of the other two. I believe I can make a case that not only would he not have lost anything in trading one of them, he likely would have actually gained from not picking the wrong QB so frequently not mention picking up a draft pick (for what it's worth, I also had a late 1st round pick that would have probably done in lieu of the early 2nd round pick. again, my contention is that not only would it not have weakened his team, but could have strengthened his team with that extra pick.

 

Interesting argument, but this actually sounds like spin. I have an owner in primary dynasty - the one we've had for 13 years now - who puts a trade to an owner as how it's good. Nothing wrong with that . . . except that it doesn't address my needs, perceived or real. Your evaluation becomes moot in light of my intention. If I want to trade one of my two QBs, it's because I am comfortable starting the remaining QB in all the weeks. I don't need or want an Eli-caliber QB as my backup. I will accept a project with potential, because then I get more in areas need or desire.

 

The other factor is this: your selling pitch here is that by subtracting one of my high-caliber QBs, I'll be better because I won't make as many mistakes going the wrong way. Um, that's essentially calling the owner inept. I am confident enough to pick the "right QB" a high percentage of the time, and am willing to try to do so again next year if I can't get the right deal. What it sounds like you're trying to convince me to do is give away quality for my own safety's sake. That benefit is so very much greater for you than it is for me, unless I really am that unconfident.

 

And that still doesn't get around the fact that no matter how "fair" the trade is or isn't (I acknowledged earlier that the trade was fair) . . . it doesn't fit my needs, and I don't want Eli.