It’s Impossible to “Get By” In the US

[redtodd 7]

I agree to a certain extent, but in our parents and grandparents age, average Americans were able to live and save on one income. That is virtually impossible for the average American today.

 

Impossible is overly dramatic. A modest living can be had if you make sacrifices.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Roomates

 

what's so funny? Like I said, last I knew you were single, living in a sh!tty apartment with no dishwasher, earning an embarassing income, stealing direct TV from your neighbor. I guess that changed.

[edjr 6,899]

what's so funny? Like I said, last I knew you were single, living in a sh!tty apartment with no dishwasher, earning an embarassing income, stealing direct TV from your neighbor. I guess that changed.

 

2006?

 

[FeelingMN 273]

What's messed up? Are you suggesting that the "uncomfortable" people should be "comfortable". Everyone deserves to have a cell phone? Who's responsibility is it to pay for that?

 

What's messed up is that more and more folks work their whole lives and have less and less to show for it. Why is that? I just think if you work a decent job...are a productive member of society, you should be able to live a comfortable existence. You should be able to provide for your family, take vacations....basically enjoy your life....rather than continually having to worry how to make ends meet.

 

It's the individual's responsibility to pay for what they want. Nobody is entitled to anything. It's just that it's getting harder and harder to pay for goods that continue to increase in cost while income remains relatively fixed.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

2006?

 

 

So I guess you'd rather wave a towel and laugh than tell me what you've been up to the past 4 years. cool.

[RLLD 4,275]

Impossible is overly dramatic. A modest living can be had if you make sacrifices.

 

Here is the disconnect. You see, our sense of entitlement prevents people from accepting this notion. Everyone should have an expensive car, boat, house, clothes etc because someone else does.

 

People refuse to make sacrifices, but in the coming years they will become rather adept with it....

[GutterBoy 2,900]

What's messed up is that more and more folks work their whole lives and have less and less to show for it. Why is that? I just think if you work a decent job...are a productive member of society, you should be able to live a comfortable existence. You should be able to provide for your family, take vacations....basically enjoy your life....rather than continually having to worry how to make ends meet.

 

It's the individual's responsibility to pay for what they want. Nobody is entitled to anything. It's just that it's getting harder and harder to pay for goods that continue to increase in cost while income remains relatively fixed.

 

 

Seems as though you think that 20-30 years ago this was possible, correct? Let me ask you this, woud you call the lived\s our parents lived back then comfortable? If so, then you can live a life now of driving a shitty car, watching 5 channels on a B&W TV, listening to free FM radio, driving to your vacation spot and setting up your camping tent, etc.

 

The definition of "comfortable life" has changed. People on welfare live better lives than I did when I was a kid and both my parents worked and struggled.

 

You should be able to provide for your family, if you can't then do something about it. Don't whine like a little girl.

[Strike 6,023]

The amount of money for a cell phone without all the bells and whistles is now comparable to a land line.

 

The whole premise of this thread is a family with 2 kids. That's four people. Is it your contention that a family should have a single cell phone shared by four people?

[parrot 789]

What's messed up is that more and more folks work their whole lives and have less and less to show for it. Why is that?

 

Because they blow their discretionary income on ###### like internet capable phones. I think that's Gutterboy's point.

[KSB2424 3,174]

When the gov't picks you up and rewards bad behaivor after you blow your money on the new 3D LED ipad with spinner wheels that also makes venti cappachinos, then why not buy it?

[Frank M 181]

Impossible is overly dramatic. A modest living can be had if you make sacrifices.

 

I don't disagree with the fact that you can have a modest living on one income. My contention that if the average American family of four is living on a salary of 45K, it is virtually impossible to feed, clothe, educate, and shelter your family and still save money for college, retirement, etc. unless you have no extra conveniences, keep the thermostat at 55, never go to a movie or dinner, and eat ramen noodles four times a week.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Because they blow their discretionary income on ###### like internet capable phones. I think that's Gutterboy's point.

 

 

sort of.

 

My point is that we have so much more cooler sh!t than we did years ago and the culture today is that we all expect to own it, when in reality the cool ###### is for the rich people. If you don't make a lot of money, live in a sh!tty house, drive a sh!tty car and sit on your ikea couch watching your SD OTA broadcasts while talking on your Nokia track phone. Don't expect to live the life of luxury. We all think we deserve everything, we don't.

[Frank M 181]

Way to make an irrelevant point.

 

More and more people are getting smartphones, with $30/month data plans, $10 unlimited texting, etc. My cell phone bill used to be like $50/month. Now it's almost $150. Now people are adding their kids. There are people dropping $200/month on family cell phone bills that can't afford it, but everyone else has cool cell phones, so why not them.

 

You said a cell phone is a luxury. Unless your contention is that a phone itself is a luxury, a cell phone is literally the same as a land line if you have no extras.

 

A cell phone with all the extras? Yeah, that's a luxury, but that's not what you said.

[Frank M 181]

The whole premise of this thread is a family with 2 kids. That's four people. Is it your contention that a family should have a single cell phone shared by four people?

 

No, that was my answer to GutterBoy's contention that a cell phone is a luxury. I said with kids, it's a necessity.

[Strike 6,023]

I don't disagree with the fact that you can have a modest living on one income. My contention that if the average American family of four is living on a salary of 45K, it is virtually impossible to feed, clothe, educate, and shelter your family and still save money for college, retirement, etc. unless you have no extra conveniences, keep the thermostat at 55, never go to a movie or dinner, and eat ramen noodles four times a week.

 

1) 45k is doable depending where you live. The fact that we're taxed up the yahoo doesn't help though. And I'm not talking just income tax.

 

2) No need to save for retirement. We force everyone to pay SS and I'm sure we're all comfortable SS will serve us well when we retire.

 

3) Obama is going to pay for all kids to go to college so we don't need to save for that either. Also, in some states the state systems are still fairly reasonable.

 

4) In the old days people did keep the thermostat at 55, rarely if ever go to the movies, and eat ramen noodles quite frequently. It's sad that we think everyone is ENTITLED to every convenience EVERYONE else has, regardless of income.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

You said a cell phone is a luxury. Unless your contention is that a phone itself is a luxury, a cell phone is literally the same as a land line if you have no extras.

 

A cell phone with all the extras? Yeah, that's a luxury, but that's not what you said.

 

It's a luxury when you have a home phone, which a family of 4 probably has. If you wanna replace home phone with 1 cell phone, fine.

[Strike 6,023]

No, that was my answer to GutterBoy's contention that a cell phone is a luxury. I said with kids, it's a necessity.

 

Why?

[GutterBoy 2,900]

No, that was my answer to GutterBoy's contention that a cell phone is a luxury. I said with kids, it's a necessity.

 

No it's not. Why does a cell phone become a necessity when you have kids? We grew up without cell phones. I have kids and don't need a cell phone.

[Call me...Tim? 0]

It's not so much the outsourcing of jobs, as someone indicated (that's merely a symptom of the underlying problem); rather, the problem (vastly oversimplified) flows from 2 related, but seperate, issues: (i) inflationary policy of the fed (which allows, or is driven by, depending upon your point of view, massive deficit spending by the federal government [which is driven by reckless politicians or greedy, unrealistic voters, again depending on your pov]), and (ii) refusal of people to live within their means (both as a society - see point (i) - and individully [everyone always has to have the best of everything (and in fact most people seem to feel ENTITLED to have certain things that require someone elses labor to obtain)]).

 

The one thing you should be entitiled to is being left alone to pursue opportunities. Unfortunately, we have created a system wherein we demand entitlements from the government, but expect someone else to pay for them (whether its social saftey nets, pork and earmarks masquerading as job creation, etc.). Then we're shocked when all that massive spending on credit leads to constant inflation which wipes out the ability of people to save/get ahead.

[parrot 789]

sort of.

 

My point is that we have so much more cooler sh!t than we did years ago and the culture today is that we all expect to own it, when in reality the cool ###### is for the rich people. If you don't make a lot of money, live in a sh!tty house, drive a sh!tty car and sit on your ikea couch watching your SD OTA broadcasts while talking on your Nokia track phone. Don't expect to live the life of luxury. We all think we deserve everything, we don't.

 

Agreed. It's not that many people don't make enough money to get the things they need and even still save a little. It's that people don't make enough money to get the things they need, the things they want, and still save a little. People have no restraint anymore. Easy credit has created a lot of monsters.

[Frank M 181]

1) 45k is doable depending where you live. The fact that we're taxed up the yahoo doesn't help though. And I'm not talking just income tax. Not in most parts of the country. I live in Ohio, which is extremely low in terms of cost of living comparable to the rest of the country, and I would hate to try to raise four kids on that here.

 

2) No need to save for retirement. We force everyone to pay SS and I'm sure we're all comfortable SS will serve us well when we retire. Whatever.

 

3) Obama is going to pay for all kids to go to college so we don't need to save for that either. Also, in some states the state systems are still fairly reasonable. Really? Discounting your initial stupid comment, even with financial aid, a state school is still going to cost you 5-10K a year. Do you really believe that someone can save 10-20% of this salary and still survive? That's dream world talk right there.

 

4) In the old days people did keep the thermostat at 55, rarely if ever go to the movies, and eat ramen noodles quite frequently. It's sad that we think everyone is ENTITLED to every convenience EVERYONE else has, regardless of income. .

Sorry that I don't believe a little warmth in the dead of winter, some entertainment on occasion, or a balanced diet is the same as someone believing they're ENTITLED to every convenience EVERYONE else has

[Frank M 181]

No it's not. Why does a cell phone become a necessity when you have kids? We grew up without cell phones. I have kids and don't need a cell phone.

 

Do you have a cell phone?

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Do you have a cell phone?

 

Sure I do, it's a Motorola Droid and it kicks ass. Got some really cool apps like I can buy movie tickets instead of waiting in line, I can strap it to my arm while I run to get all the calculations and upload to facebook, twitter feed in my hand. I also have FIOS so I can program my DVR and move photos to the TV with a flick of the finger.

 

Now tell me why it's a necessity.

[Strike 6,023]

1) 45k is doable depending where you live. The fact that we're taxed up the yahoo doesn't help though. And I'm not talking just income tax. Not in most parts of the country. I live in Ohio, which is extremely low in terms of cost of living comparable to the rest of the country, and I would hate to try to raise four kids on that here.

I didn't say it would be easy. 45k is not a great deal of money. Of course, a two income household should earn more than that in most places. If 45k is not enough just have the other spouse go back to work, or at least when the kids get old enough that they don't need constant supervision.

 

2) No need to save for retirement. We force everyone to pay SS and I'm sure we're all comfortable SS will serve us well when we retire. rolleyes.gif Whatever.

I was being sarcastic. But wouldn't it be nice if I didn't have to give thousands of dollars to the gov't. each year that I may or may not see. If I could keep that money from when I'm 25 and invest it I would get a lot more for it when I retire. So you can at least partially blame the govt. for the problem of people not saving for retirement.

 

3) Obama is going to pay for all kids to go to college so we don't need to save for that either. Also, in some states the state systems are still fairly reasonable. Really? Discounting your initial stupid comment, even with financial aid, a state school is still going to cost you 5-10K a year. Do you really believe that someone can save 10-20% of this salary and still survive? That's dream world talk right there.

 

So what? Let the kids pay their own way through college. Plenty always have. It's a nice luxury for parents to save for their kids college but it's not always possible. And that isn't a new phenomena.

 

4) In the old days people did keep the thermostat at 55, rarely if ever go to the movies, and eat ramen noodles quite frequently. It's sad that we think everyone is ENTITLED to every convenience EVERYONE else has, regardless of income. .

Sorry that I don't believe a little warmth in the dead of winter, some entertainment on occasion, or a balanced diet is the same as someone believing they're ENTITLED to every convenience EVERYONE else has

 

The OP allows for the family to have Cable TV. That doesn't qualify as "entertainment on occasion"? And I'm sure you can have a balanced diet on the same budget as Ramen noodles. As far as warmth goes, they have these things called blankets, and jackets, and stuff. Heck, you can even get a blanket with sleeves now!!!! Shocking I know!!! Isn't technology great? It's even considered "hip" to do so!!!!!!

[Strike 6,023]

Do you have a cell phone?

 

I'm pretty sure Gutterboy makes more than 45k a year so how is this relevant?

[Frank M 181]

Sure I do, it's a Motorola Droid and it kicks ass. Got some really cool apps like I can buy movie tickets instead of waiting in line, I can strap it to my arm while I run to get all the calculations and upload to facebook, twitter feed in my hand. I also have FIOS so I can program my DVR and move photos to the TV with a flick of the finger.

 

Now tell me why it's a necessity.

 

That's not a necessity. But in a family with two kids and two parents who work, it is necessary to coordinate life, activities, etc.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

That's not a necessity. But in a family with two kids and two parents who work, it is necessary to coordinate life, activities, etc.

 

No it's not, stop being silly.

[Frank M 181]

I'm pretty sure Gutterboy makes more than 45k a year so how is this relevant?

 

Just asking him because I'm quite sure that if he wa without one, he'd deem it a neccesity.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Just asking him because I'm quite sure that if he wa without one, he'd deem it a neccesity.

 

 

Never. Give me one reason why I need to make or receive a call wherever I am at a specific time.

[Frank M 181]

No it's not, stop being silly.

 

I disagree. In this day and age, it's not a luxury.

[Frank M 181]

Never. Give me one reason why I need to make or receive a call wherever I am at a specific time.

 

"Dad, my car broke down on the freeway. Can you come get me?"

[parrot 789]

That's not a necessity. But in a family with two kids and two parents who work, it is necessary to coordinate life, activities, etc.

 

Yeah, that's why there were no two kid families where both parents worked before cell phones.

[KSB2424 3,174]

FrankM sounds just like my wife. We are constantly having the "want versus need" conversation.

[Frank M 181]

Yeah, that's why there were no two kid families where both parents worked before cell phones.

 

 

While I'm sure that we'd all love to go back to the 1970s, the world has changed a bit. I'm sure they thought the electric light bulb was a luxury back when it was new, too.

[Frank M 181]

FrankM sounds just like my wife. We are constantly having the "want versus need" conversation.

 

What, like this?

 

"Honey, I want some sex tonight."

 

"Sorry, you may want it, but you don't need it."

[GutterBoy 2,900]

"Dad, my car broke down on the freeway. Can you come get me?"

 

Hmmm, I wonder what kids did when they're cars broke down before cell phones? There were probably a whole bunch of kids sitting in their broken down cars on freeways across America, until one day in 1994 Joey Motorola began handing out cell phones to these poor kids and they were saved.

[parrot 789]

 

While I'm sure that we'd all love to go back to the 1970s, the world has changed a bit. I'm sure they thought the electric light bulb was a luxury back when it was new, too.

 

 

In what ways has the world changed that makes cell phones a necessity?

[parrot 789]

Hmmm, I wonder what kids did when they're cars broke down before cell phones? There were probably a whole bunch of kids sitting in their broken down cars on freeways across America, until one day in 1994 Joey Motorola began handing out cell phones to these poor kids and they were saved.

 

Wolves probably got them. The world has changed you know.

[FeelingMN 273]

FrankM sounds just like my wife. We are constantly having the "want versus need" conversation.

 

Seriously. My wife thinks we "need" a TV in the bedroom. We live in a 1100 square foot condo with a 37" flatscreen in the living room. She can watch whatever show she wants, I'll find something else to do...but she thinks she needs a TV in the bedroom.

 

[TheNewGirl 1,637]

What, like this?

 

"Honey, I want some sex tonight."

 

"Sorry, you may want it, but you don't need it."

 

 

The only time sex is NEEDED is if you want to procreate.