It’s Impossible to “Get By” In the US

[GutterBoy 2,900]

The only time sex is NEEDED is if you want to procreate.

 

I'd hate to be married to you.

[edjr 6,899]

Seriously. My wife thinks we "need" a TV in the bedroom. We live in a 1100 square foot condo with a 37" flatscreen in the living room. She can watch whatever show she wants, I'll find something else to do...but she thinks she needs a TV in the bedroom.

 

 

I live in a 973 sq foot condo, I have a 52 inch TV in the living room and a 37 inch tv in the bedroom on the wall.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

I live in a 973 sq foot condo

 

[TheNewGirl 1,637]

I'd hate to be married to you.

 

 

I am not saying that I don't have sex for pleasure, of course I do.

 

However, if we are talking about wants versus needs, the only time sex is really needed is if you want to have a baby. It does create intimacy in other ways, and brings your closer to your partner, etc. I guess it could be needed in a relationship, but I gather that there are several relationships out there (look at Me_2006 and his technical virginity) without intercourse.

[RLLD 4,275]

The only time sex is NEEDED is if you want to procreate.

 

I didn't realize you were Jewish....

[GutterBoy 2,900]

I am not saying that I don't have sex for pleasure, of course I do.

 

However, if we are talking about wants versus needs, the only time sex is really needed is if you want to have a baby. It does create intimacy in other ways, and brings your closer to your partner, etc. I guess it could be needed in a relationship, but I gather that there are several relationships out there (look at Me_2006 and his technical virginity) without intercourse.

 

Sometimes a guy just needs to bust a nut. I guess he can jerk off, but sex is preferable.

[edjr 6,899]

Sometimes a guy just needs to bust a nut. I guess he can jerk off, but sex is preferable.

 

does your wife ever mistakenly grab you instead of her di|do?

[TheNewGirl 1,637]

Sometimes a guy just needs to bust a nut. I guess he can jerk off, but sex is preferable.

 

 

Of course it is...and sex is perferrable to my using a toy or something.

 

I guess I should have used the qualifier that sex with another person is a want...not neccessarily a need unless you want to have a kid.

[RLLD 4,275]

Of course it is...and sex is perferrable to my using a toy or something.

 

I guess I should have used the qualifier that sex with another person is a want...not neccessarily a need unless you want to have a kid.

 

The nice thing about a toy is that it doesn't want to talk when you are finished......

[Strike 6,023]

Hmmm, I wonder what kids did when they're cars broke down before cell phones? There were probably a whole bunch of kids sitting in their broken down cars on freeways across America, until one day in 1994 Joey Motorola began handing out cell phones to these poor kids and they were saved.

 

Not to mention cars were a hell of a lot less reliable 25 years ago. If anything, a cell phone is less necessary for that scenario than they were 25 years ago, yet somehow kids got by just fine back then.....

[KSB2424 3,174]

Here is a new headline on MSN's website for tax day. With 47% of people not paying taxes and getting refunds (mainly because they don't make a lot of money), this is what the media advises you to do with it.

 

http://www.bing.com/shopping/content/searc...ea=041510refund

 

[Strike 6,023]

Here is a new headline on MSN's website for tax day. With 47% of people not paying taxes and getting refunds (mainly because they don't make a lot of money), this is what the media advises you to do with it.

 

http://www.bing.com/shopping/content/searc...ea=041510refund

 

 

Well, that is a necessity you know!!!

[redtodd 7]

I don't disagree with the fact that you can have a modest living on one income. My contention that if the average American family of four is living on a salary of 45K, it is virtually impossible to feed, clothe, educate, and shelter your family and still save money for college, retirement, etc. unless you have no extra conveniences, keep the thermostat at 55, never go to a movie or dinner, and eat ramen noodles four times a week.

 

Those two usually do not go hand in hand. You should not be paying for your child's education if you cannot afford it. A very good financial advisor once said that unless you have cash falling out of your butt, you should be saving for one or the other because you can't have both. Plus it is a good lesson to have your earn their way through life.

 

That aside, you can get by with the above if you live modest. Maybe you have to rent a smaller condo. Maybe you own a house that is below 2,000 sq feet. Maybe you don't have the premium channels on TV, maybe your kids don't have the texting plan, maybe your car is 10 years old, maybe you don't drive a truck or SUV, maybe you don't leave all the lights on in the house, maybe your kids don't have their own computers, maybe you don't have a plasma TV, etc, etc. Relocation is also an option. I felt that living in MA was too expensive for me and it made it easier for me to justify living in the Midwest. Others can do the same.

 

You can get by, but if you don't make a lot you can't have what the people do make a lot have. There are people in other countries who get by with a lot less than we do, but we feel that we deserve more. If you feel you deserve more, work harder for it.

[redtodd 7]

"Dad, my car broke down on the freeway. Can you come get me?"

 

Or a car pulls up behind him and asks if he needs help. Yep, can you please call my Dad, I have broken down. I guess that NEED would save the kid 5 minutes of waiting.

[TD Ryan2 316]

the original article is excellent, thanks for Posting.

 

and Gutterboy is right... he's winning this thread.

This whole subject isn't anything new, I remember it from the "Interest Only" thread a few years back:

Link to thread

 

The issue again circulated around $100k being "wealthy" and I made the point that $100k is barely enough to live in an average home with a mortgage of $2200/month.

 

Here's my post from that thread 4 years ago:

exactly.

 

proninja threw out some numbers above, I believe they were to support the idea of a 2,200 mortgage on less than $100k, but I just don't see it.

 

here's a fairly conservative breakdown of monthly expenditures:

 

2200 mortgage.

100 credit card (and that's pretty conservative considering our society)

150 (cable tv & internet)

375 (primary car, again fairly conservative number... this ain't an Escalade)

250 (secondary car, used clunker)

250 (car insurance, 2 cars)

125 (heat, electric, telephone... and heat alone could be higher than this in the winter)

75 (cell phone)

 

that's $3525 per month in bills. And really, I think I'm being conservative with some of my numbers there.

 

this whole idea is nothing new.

People are dumb, broke, and generally feel they are entitled to much more than they've earned.

[Frank M 181]

Those two usually do not go hand in hand. You should not be paying for your child's education if you cannot afford it. A very good financial advisor once said that unless you have cash falling out of your butt, you should be saving for one or the other because you can't have both. Plus it is a good lesson to have your earn their way through life.

 

That aside, you can get by with the above if you live modest. Maybe you have to rent a smaller condo. Maybe you own a house that is below 2,000 sq feet. Maybe you don't have the premium channels on TV, maybe your kids don't have the texting plan, maybe your car is 10 years old, maybe you don't drive a truck or SUV, maybe you don't leave all the lights on in the house, maybe your kids don't have their own computers, maybe you don't have a plasma TV, etc, etc. Relocation is also an option. I felt that living in MA was too expensive for me and it made it easier for me to justify living in the Midwest. Others can do the same.

 

You can get by, but if you don't make a lot you can't have what the people do make a lot have. There are people in other countries who get by with a lot less than we do, but we feel that we deserve more. If you feel you deserve more, work harder for it.

 

Which is the point of the article before everyone started getting sidetracked on wants vs needs. Even living modestly, it is extremely difficult to get by on 45K a year. Can you get by? Sure, but it's not easy.

[Frank M 181]

Or a car pulls up behind him and asks if he needs help. Yep, can you please call my Dad, I have broken down. I guess that NEED would save the kid 5 minutes of waiting.

 

Or a van pulls up behind your daughter and drags her into the back and you find her body three weeks later.

 

We can do this all day. You say a cell phone is a luxury, I say it's a necessity. We disagree.

[KSB2424 3,174]

I will never ever forget a conversation I had with my Dad when I was in high school. I used to think he was so tight, a real penny pincher. It bugged the hell out of me as all my friends had nice stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say we were dirt poor, but we went camping in a tent as a vacation. I didn't have cable until I went to college and they had it in the dorms. ect. ect.

 

We were riding to one of my baseball games in his old ass beat up navy blue Chevy S10 truck. I was noticing all these big ass SUV's on the roads, and all these cool sports cars. I asked my dad how come everybody else had all these cars and we had this clunker. I'll never forget it, he looked at me and said: "Because the rest of the world lives up to their eyeballs in debt son, and we don't." I remember thinking first of all what is the big deal about debt, and: "So focking what!?!? I can't wait to buy a badass car".

 

Now that I own a house and am a dad I finally understand what in the hell he was talking about, and I'm turning into him.

[TD Ryan2 316]

Or a van pulls up behind your daughter and drags her into the back and you find her body three weeks later.

 

We can do this all day. You say a cell phone is a luxury, I say it's a necessity. We disagree.

 

 

the cell phone will only help find her body sooner... not save her life.

 

unless you've got that light saber app.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

A co-worker of a friend has been saving for their daughters wedding for three years. They make about fifty thousand a year and live modestly. The daughter is expecting a fity thousand dollar wedding in which she will only be paying for the dress. He tells me I should start saving now. I explained to him that me and my wife paid for our wedding with a little help from our parents and it was a good time for all. There is no need for a fifty thousand dollar wedding unles you can afford it, which they cannot. Not only is he being irresponsible, he's teaching the daughter to be also.

 

This is the mentality of our times and it needs to change.

[Frank M 181]

FrankM sounds just like my wife. We are constantly having the "want versus need" conversation.

 

You will notice that the only thing I said was a necessity was a basic cell phone. I didn't disagree with the premise that people live beyond their means. I'm actually cheap as hell when it comes to that sort of stuff. Hell, I have two TVs, one I've had for nearly twenty years that is a rebuilt floor model from the 1980s, and one that my wife brought into the relationship 19 years ago. My appliances are the same ones that came with the house I bought. The only reason I bought a new car five years ago was that my ten year old car was totalled in an accident.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,606]

Frank, you can live without your cell phone. You are so used to having it that the thought of not having it scares you. I tell people all the time to look at the amount of minutes you have each month and tell me that the majority of those minutes were NEEDED.

 

After Katrina our cell phones didn't work right for a month, in town. The cell towers were pretty fawked up and we had to make due. I made due and was fine without it. We didn't have cable TV out HS internet service for four months. Guess what? I made due. I know I was forced to, but I made due with the resources I had. It can be done.

 

Do you remember when you were a kid and you pretended to be blind? You'd walk around the house with your eyes closed seeing what it was like to make due without sight. You realized it would suck to be blind but you don't need it to live? Now insert any item you believe you cannot do without.

[Frank M 181]

Frank, you can live without your cell phone. You are so used to having it that the thought of not having it scares you. I tell people all the time to look at the amount of minutes you have each month and tell me that the majority of those minutes were NEEDED.

 

After Katrina our cell phones didn't work right for a month, in town. The cell towers were pretty fawked up and we had to make due. I made due and was fine without it. We didn't have cable TV out HS internet service for four months. Guess what? I made due. I know I was forced to, but I made due with the resources I had. It can be done.

 

Do you remember when you were a kid and you pretended to be blind? You'd walk around the house with your eyes closed seeing what it was like to make due without sight. You realized it would suck to be blind but you don't need it to live? Now insert any item you believe you cannot do without.

 

Sure. You could make do without your car, too and use a bike or public transportataion. Is there anyone here who thinks a car is a luxury in this day and age?

 

Why the need to convince me that a cell phone is a luxury? I think it's a necessity in this day and age of two parents working. If that qualifies as entitlement thinking along the lines of boats and flat screen TVs, I don't know what to say.

[TheNewGirl 1,637]

Sure. You could make do without your car, too and use a bike or public transportataion. Is there anyone here who thinks a car is a luxury in this day and age?

 

Why the need to convince me that a cell phone is a luxury? I think it's a necessity in this day and age of two parents working. If that qualifies as entitlement thinking along the lines of boats and flat screen TVs, I don't know what to say.

 

 

A car would be considered a luxury item, IMO. You mentioned bikes and public transportation. My dad took public transportation for YEARS. Would it take me longer to get to work? Sure. Would it also save me around $400 in a car payment and insurance, gas, upkeep?

 

My husband has been unemployed for almost 3 months. I have the ability to work from home. We still have two cars. One of those cars could be considered a luxury right now.

 

You feel a cell phone is neccessary and could avoid your child being murdered? It could also provide a means for your child to get into a huge fiery wreck because s/he decides to be an idiot and talk on their phone, or text while driving. You can tell me that s/he NEVER texts while driving and I will disagree with you 100%. If they have a phone during school hours, they are likely texting while at school, too...avoiding opportunities to learn and not be a dumbass the rest of their lives. But, dad! I NEED IT!!!

[redtodd 7]

Which is the point of the article before everyone started getting sidetracked on wants vs needs. Even living modestly, it is extremely difficult to get by on 45K a year. Can you get by? Sure, but it's not easy.

 

I guess I was focused more by the earlier use of the word "impossible." It is not easy, I will admit that, but it is not next to impossible. That was all I said.

 

The want vs. need arguement is definitley interesting. I do laugh sometimes and wonder "how did I get by when I was in high school/college without a cell phone?" But I somehow did. It is definitely (IMO) not a need, but it is a REALLY, REALLY nice to have. I could definitely get by without one, but I would rather not.

[Frank M 181]

A car would be considered a luxury item, IMO. You mentioned bikes and public transportation. My dad took public transportation for YEARS. Would it take me longer to get to work? Sure. Would it also save me around $400 in a car payment and insurance, gas, upkeep?

 

My husband has been unemployed for almost 3 months. I have the ability to work from home. We still have two cars. One of those cars could be considered a luxury right now.

 

You feel a cell phone is neccessary and could avoid your child being murdered? It could also provide a means for your child to get into a huge fiery wreck because s/he decides to be an idiot and talk on their phone, or text while driving. You can tell me that s/he NEVER texts while driving and I will disagree with you 100%. If they have a phone during school hours, they are likely texting while at school, too...avoiding opportunities to learn and not be a dumbass the rest of their lives. But, dad! I NEED IT!!!

 

My point was that a cell phone is a necessity for a family with two people working to coordinate the activities of life, then GutterBoy and Strike disagreed, then it became an about when cell phones were needed and not needed. So no, a cell phone is not necessary for my kid to avoid getting murdered, I think it's necessary for the much more mundane activities of life. The others disagree.

 

But while we're at it, you can argue that anything outside of food, shelter, and clothing are luxuries.

 

What I'm seeing is that the basic argument here is that if something wasn't needed back when you were a kid, it's not needed now. I just don't buy that in every circumstance. With the advent of technology, some things become more necessary to complete the daily activities in life. We have almost come to the point where a computer is a necessity. People like GutterBoy would have been arguing that you don't need a computer ten, fifteen years ago.

[Frank M 181]

I guess I was focused more by the earlier use of the word "impossible." It is not easy, I will admit that, but it is not next to impossible. That was all I said.

 

The want vs. need arguement is definitley interesting. I do laugh sometimes and wonder "how did I get by when I was in high school/college without a cell phone?" But I somehow did. It is definitely (IMO) not a need, but it is a REALLY, REALLY nice to have. I could definitely get by without one, but I would rather not.

 

I think we actually are close to agreement. If you throw in saving for college and/or retirement in any meaningful amount, that pushes it pretty close to the "next to impossible" category, no?

[Strike 6,023]

My point was that a cell phone is a necessity for a family with two people working to coordinate the activities of life, then GutterBoy and Strike disagreed, then it became an about when cell phones were needed and not needed. So no, a cell phone is not necessary for my kid to avoid getting murdered, I think it's necessary for the much more mundane activities of life. The others disagree.

 

ROFLMAO. Gutterboy asked for a specific reason he'd need to be contacted at a specific time and all you could come up with is a broken down car on the freeway. YOU are the one who tried to make it about your kid getting murdered or something. Much like most libs on political issues you speak in vagueness and when asked for specifics to support your assertions you come up dry.

[Frank M 181]

ROFLMAO. Gutterboy asked for a specific reason he'd need to be contacted at a specific time and all you could come up with is a broken down car on the freeway. YOU are the one who tried to make it about your kid getting murdered or something. Much like most libs on political issues you speak in vagueness and when asked for specifics to support your assertions you come up dry.

 

I gave him a specific reason, he disagreed. The murder thing was in response to redtodd to point out that whatever he said, I could come up with something to refute it since we don't agree. in fact, since reading comprehension has never been proven to be your strong suit, here is the whole exchange. Maybe you should read it slowly:

 

Me: "Dad, my car broke down on the freeway. Can you come get me?"

 

redtodd: Or a car pulls up behind him and asks if he needs help. Yep, can you please call my Dad, I have broken down. I guess that NEED would save the kid 5 minutes of waiting.

 

Me: Or a van pulls up behind your daughter and drags her into the back and you find her body three weeks later.

We can do this all day. You say a cell phone is a luxury, I say it's a necessity. We disagree.

 

 

As usual, you don't understand what's being said and have to turn it into a lame "libs think this or that" argument. Since when is a cell phone a political issue? I gave a specific response to a specific question. Not my fault if you and GutterBoy don't like the answer I gave. In fact, many posts earlier, I said I disagree and left it at that. You and Gutter are the ones with a burr up your ass about it.

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Frank M, if your kid breaks down on the freeway and forgot his cell phone, do you think the kid will be OK?

[Frank M 181]

Frank M, if your kid breaks down on the freeway and forgot his cell phone, do you think the kid will be OK?

 

Probably. Point being?

 

Dude, you should just drop it. You think a cell phone is a luxury, I think it's a necessity. Why do you feel such a great need to convince me that you're right?

[GutterBoy 2,900]

Probably. Point being?

 

Dude, you should just drop it. You think a cell phone is a luxury, I think it's a necessity. Why do you feel such a great need to convince me that you're right?

 

the point being he didn't need the cell phone.

 

I'm done, agree to disagree.

[Strike 6,023]

I gave him a specific reason, he disagreed. The murder thing was in response to redtodd to point out that whatever he said, I could come up with something to refute it since we don't agree. in fact, since reading comprehension has never been proven to be your strong suit, here is the whole exchange. Maybe you should read it slowly:

As usual, you don't understand what's being said and have to turn it into a lame "libs think this or that" argument. Since when is a cell phone a political issue? I gave a specific response to a specific question. Not my fault if you and GutterBoy don't like the answer I gave. In fact, many posts earlier, I said I disagree and left it at that. You and Gutter are the ones with a burr up your ass about it.

 

You forgot a couple of quotes from the exchange. First, there was your reasoning for this being a necessity:

 

That's not a necessity. But in a family with two kids and two parents who work, it is necessary to coordinate life, activities, etc.

 

Which is an emergency situation. You know, cause you're worried about you kid getting murdered or something.

 

Then there was Gutterboy asking why he'd ever need to be contacted at a specific point in time:

 

Never. Give me one reason why I need to make or receive a call wherever I am at a specific time.

 

That's when you pulled out the car by the side of the road BS, which is completely different than your "coordinate life, activities, etc..." Bullsh*t. So which is it that makes it a necessity, the mundane activity stuff or the emergency stuff? If it's the former you still haven't given an example. If it's the latter, give your kid a $5 prepaid and be done with it.

[Strike 6,023]

Probably. Point being?

 

Dude, you should just drop it. You think a cell phone is a luxury, I think it's a necessity. Why do you feel such a great need to convince me that you're right?

 

It's not about being right. It's about you supporting your argument. That's the difference between you and I. If I make a statement I'm willing to back it up. The best you could come up with is a kid stuck by the side of the road, which you now acknowledge doesn't even put them in harms way.

[Frank M 181]

You forgot a couple of quotes from the exchange. First, there was your reasoning for this being a necessity:

Which is an emergency situation. You know, cause you're worried about you kid getting murdered or something.

 

Then there was Gutterboy asking why he'd ever need to be contacted at a specific point in time:

That's when you pulled out the car by the side of the road BS, which is completely different than your "coordinate life, activities, etc..." Bullsh*t. So which is it that makes it a necessity, the mundane activity stuff or the emergency stuff? If it's the former you still haven't given an example. If it's the latter, give your kid a $5 prepaid and be done with it.

 

I don't care. Seems like you do.

 

A cell phone is a necessity for a family with kids and two parents working. I could care less if you agree or not, but spend as much time thinking about it as you want.

[Frank M 181]

It's not about being right. It's about you supporting your argument. That's the difference between you and I. If I make a statement I'm willing to back it up. The best you could come up with is a kid stuck by the side of the road, which you now acknowledge doesn't even put them in harms way.

 

This is the second time that you've gotten in a twist about my opinion on something trivial. Why?

 

I'll say it again: A cell phone is a necessity for a family with kids and two parents working. I could care less if you agree or not, but spend as much time thinking about it as you want.

[sheadtoo 1]

Cell phone are almost definitely a necessity now when i was coming up not all that long ago (early 90's) there were pay phones all over you could always find one to use... I had a pager with an 800 number (a real luxury) but look around today there are almost NO pay phones around anymore unless in a BIG metro area. And has anyone even asked to use a phone in a business in the last 5 years? I watched a lady try in a wawa(7-11 type store) the kid behind the counter looked like she was crazy that she didn't have a cell phone.

[jerryskids 7,091]

This is the second time that you've gotten in a twist about my opinion on something trivial. Why?

 

I'll say it again: A cell phone is a necessity for a family with kids and two parents working. I could care less if you agree or not, but spend as much time thinking about it as you want.

The reason you are getting your ass kicked here is that you insist on using the word "necessity." Families with kids and two parents working have existed for a long time before cell phones and got by. Families without food or water, not so much.

[Strike 6,023]

This is the second time that you've gotten in a twist about my opinion on something trivial. Why?

 

I'll say it again: A cell phone is a necessity for a family with kids and two parents working. I could care less if you agree or not, but spend as much time thinking about it as you want.

 

It's not something trivial. It's a significant expense when you're talking about $1200/year for a family making 45k gross. You'd have a point if it was truly a necessity, and we've asked you to support that position, but you choose to just keep repeating that it's a necessity. And it's not.

[Strike 6,023]

Cell phone are almost definitely a necessity now when i was coming up not all that long ago (early 90's) there were pay phones all over you could always find one to use... I had a pager with an 800 number (a real luxury) but look around today there are almost NO pay phones around anymore unless in a BIG metro area. And has anyone even asked to use a phone in a business in the last 5 years? I watched a lady try in a wawa(7-11 type store) the kid behind the counter looked like she was crazy that she didn't have a cell phone.

 

As I said earlier, if it's that important for a kid to have a cell phone for urgent matters/emergencies get them a prepaid. It's significantly cheaper and is a reasonable compromise for a family of four trying to get by on 45k/year.