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giantwarrior

Jamaal Charles Owners?

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We can agree to disagree.....and just see what unfolds......and I will be right.....once again....because Jones IS the better RB. :)

 

sorry Ray, i have to politely disagree with you on this one. Unfortunately you were correct about Eddie Royal last year (though im not sure you had the correct reasoning) so its tough for me to go against you but I havn't seen any reasoning for why TJ is the better RB.

 

he without a doubt did not outplay Charles in the preseason.

 

Thomas Jones was brought in for a reason. Leadership, toughness, pass blocking and blitz pickup and the ability to grind for tough yards.... but the better back? Not behind this line. Alot of people are going to see just how much of a product of the Jet line he was.

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We can agree to disagree.....and just see what unfolds......and I will be right.....once again....because Jones IS the better RB. :)

 

And we can all agree that you're wrong. :cheers:

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Nice try....

 

Jones is closer to Emmitt Smith...a true professional. He gives 120% in the weight room and on the field. He is a known commodity. He blocks like a beast (see Todd Haley's comments). His coaches and teammates look to him as a leader on the field.

 

There is no doubt Jamaal Charles is super fast and broke several long runs against weak defenses last season. But the jury is still out on his work ethic, pass blocking and his durability.

 

People are saying that Charles will take over by mid-season. I think there is a better chance that Charles will be hurt by mid-season than being a full-time featured back.

 

By the way, I don't have either of them...lol.

 

I'm sorry. I'm confused. Did Emmitt Smith also sign with the Chiefs? Nice evade. You know why I chose LJ, but I suppose that doesn't work for your argument.

 

Better chance that he'll be hurt . . . based on what, exactly?

 

Jury still out on work ethic, pass blocking and durability. Um . . . again, based on what? Your desire to rationalize Haley's inane insistence on declaring Jones the starter? Pleaase. Durability cannot possibly be measured at this point, as this is his third year, and first with a significant opportunity. Work ethic? You seem to have a short memory regarding Mr. Jones, who was not known for his work ethic coming out of college. Regarding Charles, I guess we'll wait and see.

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sorry Ray, i have to politely disagree with you on this one. Unfortunately you were correct about Eddie Royal last year (though im not sure you had the correct reasoning) so its tough for me to go against you but I havn't seen any reasoning for why TJ is the better RB.

 

he without a doubt did not outplay Charles in the preseason.

 

Thomas Jones was brought in for a reason. Leadership, toughness, pass blocking and blitz pickup and the ability to grind for tough yards.... but the better back? Not behind this line. Alot of people are going to see just how much of a product of the Jet line he was.

 

Yes, I was right on Royal, the year before LJ, then there was Walker and many more....but I digress. I make my call, and time will tell....:)

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Yes, I was right on Royal, the year before LJ, then there was Walker and many more....but I digress. I make my call, and time will tell....:)

 

I thought the one you were hanging your hat on this year was Ward's demise. :dunno:

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No real argument that Jones is, by all accounts, a true professional that had three productive years in New York---I also don't think there can be much of an argument, however, that he was running behind a team built on the line to be a smash mouth running team...He had two good years in Chicago prior to signing with New York, but was also in his prime for those seasons (27 and 28 years old)---prior to that, he was a quintessential journeyman Rb, doing nothing of note during his first six pro seasons...He is now a 32 year old pile mover, which is not really what the doctor ordered running behind a line that is shaky at best and a team that will be playing from behind in many cases...The KC backfield situation is almost a mirror image of the Jets current backfield situation, with LT signing to play behind a power back in an offense that is built for the power running game...Jones signed to play in an offense that already had a shifty back and is playing for an offense that will need a player who can make plays without excellent blocking...Thomas Jones, this season, may play the Willis McGahee-role from a season ago in a best case scenario...The Chiefs offense will end up forced to use Charles' skill set far more frequently than Jones' and I would be shocked if TJ ends up outproducing Charles in this offense...

 

That said, I guess no one really knows until the bullets start flying for real, just educated (or not) opinions...

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No real argument that Jones is, by all accounts, a true professional that had three productive years in New York---I also don't think there can be much of an argument, however, that he was running behind a team built on the line to be a smash mouth running team...He had two good years in Chicago prior to signing with New York, but was also in his prime for those seasons (27 and 28 years old)---prior to that, he was a quintessential journeyman Rb, doing nothing of not during his first six pro seasons...He is now a 32 year old pile mover, which is not really what the doctor ordered running behind a line that is shaky at best and a team that will be playing from behind in many cases...The KC backfield situation is almost a mirror image of the Jets current backfield situation, with LT signing to play behind a power back in an offense that is built for the power running game...Jones signed to play in an offense that already had a shifty back and is playing for an offense that will need a player who can make plays without excellent blocking...Thomas Jones, this season, may play the Willis McGahee-role from a season ago in a best case scenario...The Chiefs offense will end up forced to use Charles' skill set far more frequently than Jones' and I would be shocked if TJ ends up outproducing Charles in this offense...

 

That said, I guess no one really knows until the bullets start flying for real, just educated (or not) opinions...

 

 

Not only that but people forget during TJ's years in Chicago that the Bears actually HAD a decent OLine.

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TJ is going to play. Of course he will, they brought him in to produce and add depth. Duh.

 

But you guys go and find me a RB in the history of the NFL that was over the age of 32 AND had over 2000 lifetime carries that was really productive. You might find one guy named Emmitt Smith. Who is a Hall of Famer behind a steallar Cowboy line. TJ is not Emmitt and doesn't have that in KC.

 

Absolutely no chance Jones outproduces Charles (barring injury). To think so would be sticking your head in the sand of history. Will he cut into Charles production some? Sure. But not much more than Sproles will Matthews or Tomlinson will Green or Bell/Weaver will McCoy or ect. ect. ect.

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TJ is going to play. Of course he will, they brought him in to produce and add depth. Duh.

 

But you guys go and find me a RB in the history of the NFL that was over the age of 32 AND had over 2000 lifetime carries that was really productive. You might find one guy named Emmitt Smith. Who is a Hall of Famer behind a steallar Cowboy line. TJ is not Emmitt and doesn't have that in KC.

 

Absolutely no chance Jones outproduces Charles (barring injury). To think so would be sticking your head in the sand of history. Will he cut into Charles production some? Sure. But not much more than Sproles will Matthews or Tomlinson will Green or Bell/Weaver will McCoy or ect. ect. ect.

 

This.

 

Also, as a side note I think it's so funny that everyone has Greene as a SUREFIRE second-round pick but Charles is not. Charles did WAY more to prove himself last season than Greene. Because Jones was there, yeah I know. But for some reason I have a lot more respect for a guy who ran behind a terrible OLine. Also Charles can catch the ball well unlike Greene. You can argue for number of touches and that hte Jets are a running team all you want but I would take Charles in a heartbeat over Greene. And don't even try to bring TJ into this argument, you don't think LT is going to steal more touches from Greene?

 

I will actually say right here and now that Charles (barring injury) will despite having less touches have more yards and TDs at the end of the season than Greene.

 

Okay sorry about that...had to get it off my chest.

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I'm sorry. I'm confused. Did Emmitt Smith also sign with the Chiefs? Nice evade. You know why I chose LJ, but I suppose that doesn't work for your argument.

 

Better chance that he'll be hurt . . . based on what, exactly?

 

Jury still out on work ethic, pass blocking and durability. Um . . . again, based on what? Your desire to rationalize Haley's inane insistence on declaring Jones the starter? Pleaase. Durability cannot possibly be measured at this point, as this is his third year, and first with a significant opportunity. Work ethic? You seem to have a short memory regarding Mr. Jones, who was not known for his work ethic coming out of college. Regarding Charles, I guess we'll wait and see.

 

Aug 28th-- Charles is "fine" after leaving Friday night's game with a minor arm injury. "Charles just landed awkwardly on his funny bone last night," said Schefter.

 

Aug 27th-- Charles started the Chiefs' third preseason game Friday night, but fumbled the handoff on the first play from scrimmage. Philadelphia scored a touchdown two plays later. Fumbling has been an on-again, off-again problem for Charles dating back to his Longhorn days.

 

Aug 26th-- Todd Haley finally admitted that he trusts Thomas Jones more than Jamaal Charles as he has already proven an ability to hold up over an entire 16 game+ season. He notes that Charles only has a 8 game sample size and that he is concerned about Charles durability. This was a common knock on this former sprinter coming out of college and it is why he was ticketed as a change of pace back in the NFL.

 

Aug 24th-- Todd Haley-- Jamaal Charles is being "limited" as a No. 2 back and nursed back into to mix of things due to offseason shoulder surgery. "We want this guy to be playing when the games count," said Haley. "He's coming off a pretty significant (surgery).

 

Aug 17th -- Haley referred to Charles as "a developing player" who's "had good days, bad days, and in-between days."

 

June 18-- “Thomas Jones is a special dude,” Haley said. “He has a high football character guy. He hasn’t missed a day. He helps set the tone.”

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I participated in several drafts and was surprised at how far Charles fell. I was happy to scoop him up in each instance. As a Charles owner, I'm pleased as punch that he's teamed with Jones. Charles can score from anywhere on the field, rushing or receiving. He doesn't need 30 carries to gain 100 yds. The last thing I want is for the Chiefs to use him like he's Eddie George, banging him up and wearing him down long before the playoffs. I doubt that even Jones himself expects to finish with more yards than a healthy Charles. The key is keeping Charles healthy.

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Aug 28th-- Charles is "fine" after leaving Friday night's game with a minor arm injury. "Charles just landed awkwardly on his funny bone last night," said Schefter.

 

Aug 27th-- Charles started the Chiefs' third preseason game Friday night, but fumbled the handoff on the first play from scrimmage. Philadelphia scored a touchdown two plays later. Fumbling has been an on-again, off-again problem for Charles dating back to his Longhorn days.

 

Aug 26th-- Todd Haley finally admitted that he trusts Thomas Jones more than Jamaal Charles as he has already proven an ability to hold up over an entire 16 game+ season. He notes that Charles only has a 8 game sample size and that he is concerned about Charles durability. This was a common knock on this former sprinter coming out of college and it is why he was ticketed as a change of pace back in the NFL.

 

Aug 24th-- Todd Haley-- Jamaal Charles is being "limited" as a No. 2 back and nursed back into to mix of things due to offseason shoulder surgery. "We want this guy to be playing when the games count," said Haley. "He's coming off a pretty significant (surgery).

 

Aug 17th -- Haley referred to Charles as "a developing player" who's "had good days, bad days, and in-between days."

 

June 18-- “Thomas Jones is a special dude,” Haley said. “He has a high football character guy. He hasn’t missed a day. He helps set the tone.”

 

Its all talk until the Chiefs are down 14 after the first quarter. Then, the quotes will be, "We used Jamaal more than we wanted to this game because we were down 24 at halftime and needed to improve the pace and throw it around more."

 

The Chiefs' Defense is pathetic. It makes a guy like Jamaal immune to what the coach wants to do. Its what the coach will have to do that matters, and they'll have to play Jamaal. That's almost the beauty of Jamaal. They will HAVE to get him the ball. :pointstosky:

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Yes, I was right on Royal, the year before LJ, then there was Walker and many more....but I digress. I make my call, and time will tell....:)

 

understandable, im just looking for reasons why

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understandable, im just looking for reasons why

 

This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

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This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

Are we talking about the same player???

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDJg6cW5lc

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Yes.

 

Don't get "married" to your opinion there - you're starting to sound like an idiot who can't stop arguing for arguing's sake.

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This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

 

interesting. I wont say you're wrong...... simply incorrect :thumbsup:

 

seriously though, after watching Jones up close these past few years I just don't know how to respond to anyone who thinks his running style is a better fit for this KC team.

 

he was brought in to play, there is no doubt about that but I just dont see him having as large a role. the way this KC team is currently set up, they need a playmaker. Someone capable of making a few guys miss on their own. That is not Thomas Jones.

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Don't get "married" to your opinion there - you're starting to sound like an idiot who can't stop arguing for arguing's sake.

 

Not at all. I can easily be incorrect, it happened once back in 2002. If I am wrong I will certainly admit as such. And I certainly won't call people names if I disagree either. ;)

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interesting. I wont say you're wrong...... simply incorrect :thumbsup:

 

seriously though, after watching Jones up close these past few years I just don't know how to respond to anyone who thinks his running style is a better fit for this KC team.

 

he was brought in to play, there is no doubt about that but I just dont see him having as large a role. the way this KC team is currently set up, they need a playmaker. Someone capable of making a few guys miss on their own. That is not Thomas Jones.

 

Pay attention kids, this is how to disagree.

 

I see your point. My perspective if derived from small things as I watch each perform.

 

In high school I was a tailback, and linebacker, and we had this nasty contraption we called the "chute"....it was metal paddles, four on each side that were spring-hinged.....if you followed your fullback through it properly you would be fine......if not, you were not merely hitting the paddles, you were hitting them as they sprung back on to you....it taught one the important of hitting the hole at the proper timing, and I think Jones is simply better at reading, finding and hitting the holes....JMHO

 

Let's keep an eye on it see how it unfolds. Frankly, I would like to know if I see what I think I am seeing and the only way to know is by letting it unfold.:cheers:

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We can agree to disagree.....and just see what unfolds......and I will be right.....once again....because Jones IS the better RB. :)

 

Sure...we will see what unfolds.

Does not change that Im still wondering in what way did TJ outplay Charles this preseason?

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Sure...we will see what unfolds.

Does not change that Im still wondering in what way did TJ outplay Charles this preseason?

 

Not sure if that is a question or not, check the format. If we all agreed on every player this hobby would be pretty boring.....:thumbsup:

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This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

 

Oh come on now. LMAO. Charles's reads, vision, quick decisions and setting up of blocks made him look like Chris Johnson last year. Watch the tape again. You're out of ideas for an argument now and throwing **** at the wall to see if it sticks.

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Not at all. I can easily be incorrect, it happened once back in 2002. If I am wrong I will certainly admit as such. And I certainly won't call people names if I disagree either. ;)

 

Way to take the high road Ray - my apologies.

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Not sure if that is a question or not, check the format. If we all agreed on every player this hobby would be pretty boring.....:thumbsup:

 

Sure...we can disagree on players...but again, how did Jones outplay Charles this preseason?

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Sure...we can disagree on players...but again, how did Jones outplay Charles this preseason?

 

Sorry for the repost, but i think sho missed it...

 

This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

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Sorry for the repost, but i think sho missed it...

 

This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

 

Then why did the Jets let him go?

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Then why did the Jets let him go?

 

I don't know. Not sure how Jones and Charles relates to the jet's.....:unsure:

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Sorry for the repost, but i think sho missed it...

 

This is purely my own individual assessment of what I see in them each on the field. Their running style, how they recognize the blocks forming and unforming in front of them, their "pace" as the play unfolds and how well they judge the play in terms of exploiting holes, or not.

 

Jones is clearly the back with better vision and understanding of reading the blocks and play pace, a fact apparently the coaches have recognized as well. Charles may or may not figure it out, given time. But right now i would play Jones over him on his sheer ability to individually exploit the opportunities his team is able to provide.

 

No, I didn't miss it.

None of that is talking about outplaying him.

Its simply your opinion of each of them and what they bring to the table.

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No, I didn't miss it.

None of that is talking about outplaying him.

Its simply your opinion of each of them and what they bring to the table.

 

Correct. That is my opinion as to why Jones is the better RB.:thumbsup:

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Read a article last week their coach said T.J. was not signed to sit on the bench.He has been a proven back for years and has alot left in him.He also said that Charles was great the last half of the season but he has alot to learn and he was inconsistent.So being that Jones is a proven back for several years he will be the starter for now but both backs will see a lot of work.By the way im a Charles owner.

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Read a article last week their coach said T.J. was not signed to sit on the bench.He has been a proven back for years and has alot left in him.He also said that Charles was great the last half of the season but he has alot to learn and he was inconsistent.So being that Jones is a proven back for several years he will be the starter for now but both backs will see a lot of work.By the way im a Charles owner.

 

Haley is such a jagoff. Charles was inconsistent? Yeah, sometimes he'd run for only 4 yards and then he'd bust a 60 yard td.

 

Now he can get the consistency he wanted with TJ...consistently getting him between 2 and 4 yards. :thumbsup:

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From CBS...I think they're stealing what I wrote earlier. Who can I call about this! :music_guitarred:

 

Sit'em:

Thomas Jones (vs. SD): Jones is going to find out that running behind the Jets offensive line was a luxury he will miss now that he's in Kansas City. And this is a game where Jamaal Charles will prove he's still the most valuable running back for the Chiefs because if Kansas City falls behind as expected, Jones will be on the sidelines in passing situations. The Chargers run defense was efficient last year and only allowed nine rushing touchdowns to opposing running backs. Jones also had 14 carries for 41 yards against San Diego last year in the playoffs for the Jets, but he was limited by a knee injury.

 

So here's the real fantasy argument for Jamaal. He's the better back because the Chiefs suck.

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I don't know. Not sure how Jones and Charles relates to the jet's.....:unsure:

 

:lol:

 

The Jets let him go because they had fresher legs waiting in the wings. TJ ran outta gas late last year. Charles has fresher legs in KC.

 

The Jets also felt fine letting him go because he doesn't excel on 3rd downs as a check down option. Something Charles clearly excels at.

 

So while the Jets don't really have anything to do with Jones potential success in KC, the reasons they were comfortable letting him go are warning signs for why he will not continue to be a 1,000 yard, double digit TD rusher in KC.

 

 

Im telling you flat out that his running style will not be best for this KC team.

 

I readily acknowledge that Jones was brought in to play, certainly not to ride the pine, I just don't think it will be nearly as much or as effective as TJ supporters wish to believe.

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