Concussion Factor

[OrangeSoda 2]

Some the more savvy folks on here may have already thought about this, but I ll share my 2 cents...

 

As I understand it - The new rule change with Concessions is that an NFL Doctor NOT a Team Doctor will determine if a player may re-enter a game after being Concussed!

 

Wouldn't this directly affect players Like Aaron Rodgers for example who played thru numerous concussions last season. Under the new rule, they would not be able to return to the game, and may miss signifigant time, if the NFL doctors are not ready to clear the player?

 

How many games would Aaron Rodgers not been able to complete last year had this rule been in affect already? I think he finnished #1 or #2 in most league formats last year, with this new rule its likely he wouldnt have been in the top 10!

 

Just Something to consider....

 

( I personally have guys like Rodgers, Cutler, Big Ben, ranked a few spots lower this year!)

[Houston Texans 10]

Some the more savvy folks on here may have already thought about this, but I ll share my 2 cents...

 

As I understand it - The new rule change with Concessions is that an NFL Doctor NOT a Team Doctor will determine if a player may re-enter a game after being Concussed!

 

Wouldn't this directly affect players Like Aaron Rodgers for example who played thru numerous concussions last season. Under the new rule, they would not be able to return to the game, and may miss signifigant time, if the NFL doctors are not ready to clear the player?

 

How many games would Aaron Rodgers not been able to complete last year had this rule been in affect already? I think he finnished #1 or #2 in most league formats last year, with this new rule its likely he wouldnt have been in the top 10!

 

Just Something to consider....

 

( I personally have guys like Rodgers, Cutler, Big Ben, ranked a few spots lower this year!)

What are you talking about?

 

Rodgers suffered 2 concussion last year (in OT against the Redskins-week 5), and against the Lions. He was cleared to play the week after the 'Skins game, and he was not cleared to play against the Pats (after the Lions game). He never "played through numerous concussions;" he suffered two. The one he suffered against the 'Skins was on the last offensive play for the Packers; he didn't play again until he was cleared. In the Lions game, Rodgers was concussed either on an 18 yard scramble, or a sack on the next play (he got up slow after each play). He finished the series, and the didn't return until he was cleared (after missing the next game).

 

So Rodgers "playing through numerous concussions" was for a total of 2 or 3 plays. The stats he accumulated while "playing through numerous concussions" was either 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, or 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, and 1 sack for -13 yards.

 

Yeah, I can see why you would rank Rodgers a few spots lower. Where would he have finished without those extra 4 passing yards?

[420allstars 13]

What are you talking about?

 

Rodgers suffered 2 concussion last year (in OT against the Redskins-week 5), and against the Lions. He was cleared to play the week after the 'Skins game, and he was not cleared to play against the Pats (after the Lions game). He never "played through numerous concussions;" he suffered two. The one he suffered against the 'Skins was on the last offensive play for the Packers; he didn't play again until he was cleared. In the Lions game, Rodgers was concussed either on an 18 yard scramble, or a sack on the next play (he got up slow after each play). He finished the series, and the didn't return until he was cleared (after missing the next game).

 

So Rodgers "playing through numerous concussions" was for a total of 2 or 3 plays. The stats he accumulated while "playing through numerous concussions" was either 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, or 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, and 1 sack for -13 yards.

 

Yeah, I can see why you would rank Rodgers a few spots lower. Where would he have finished without those extra 4 passing yards?

 

 

HAHAHA... nice!!

[OrangeSoda 2]

What are you talking about?

 

Rodgers suffered 2 concussion last year (in OT against the Redskins-week 5), and against the Lions. He was cleared to play the week after the 'Skins game, and he was not cleared to play against the Pats (after the Lions game). He never "played through numerous concussions;" he suffered two. The one he suffered against the 'Skins was on the last offensive play for the Packers; he didn't play again until he was cleared. In the Lions game, Rodgers was concussed either on an 18 yard scramble, or a sack on the next play (he got up slow after each play). He finished the series, and the didn't return until he was cleared (after missing the next game).

 

So Rodgers "playing through numerous concussions" was for a total of 2 or 3 plays. The stats he accumulated while "playing through numerous concussions" was either 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, or 1 for 1 passing for 4 yards, and 1 sack for -13 yards.

 

Yeah, I can see why you would rank Rodgers a few spots lower. Where would he have finished without those extra 4 passing yards?

 

 

I think your missing the point - Hgow many of those games did we not hear about a concussion- the 2 you mentioned we knew it was serious enough not to return to the game, but how many other times could he have been hit and suffered a concussion and still went back in to play?

This happens more than you realize, and if player is more prone to this issue, is kept out of games the less stats they can accumulate!

[stonewall 647]

I think your missing the point - Hgow many of those games did we not hear about a concussion- the 2 you mentioned we knew it was serious enough not to return to the game, but how many other times could he have been hit and suffered a concussion and still went back in to play?

This happens more than you realize, and if player is more prone to this issue, is kept out of games the less stats they can accumulate!

 

 

Word to the wise:

 

You are wasting energy swapping talking points with "Houston Texans". Although certainly knowledgeable, he is rigidly inflexible, occasionally antagonistic, and innately contrary.

[420allstars 13]

Word to the wise:

 

You are wasting energy swapping talking points with "Houston Texans". Although certainly knowledgeable, he is rigidly inflexible, occasionally antagonistic, and innately contrary.

 

That makes me want this to continue even more!!

[Houston Texans 10]

I think your missing the point - Hgow many of those games did we not hear about a concussion- the 2 you mentioned we knew it was serious enough not to return to the game, but how many other times could he have been hit and suffered a concussion and still went back in to play?

 

This happens more than you realize, and if player is more prone to this issue, is kept out of games the less stats they can accumulate!

I realize that it does happen. However, you are just mis-informed if you believe that medical doctors are looking at a player and thinking "he is concussed, but I'm being paid by the Packers, I'll clear him to go back in the game." There are quick tests that are administered on the sidelines to players who are believed to have suffered a concussion. If a Dr administered these tests, determined that a player was concussed, and then allowed him to play again, he/she would be subject to a malpractice suit, and when dealing with players who makes millions of dollars a year, no Dr is going to risk that, regardless if he/she is paid by the NFL team or by the NFL.

[Houston Texans 10]

Word to the wise:

 

You are wasting energy swapping talking points with "Houston Texans". Although certainly knowledgeable, he is rigidly inflexible, occasionally antagonistic, and innately contrary.

 

I fail to see how my posts in this thread (or elsewhere) suggest this.

 

I posted in this thread because the OP suggested that Rodgers, Cutler, Roethlisberger, etc should be ranked lower because of the NFL's concussion policy. This is mis-information, and I replied because this is a FF message board. The reason I (and others, I would imagine) frequent this board is for information that can help in our FF leagues. Ranking these QBs lower because of a flawed premise would not help us, rather it would make it harder for us.

 

Should I be flexible and not point out mis-information when I read it? Should I avoid posting because you might find it antagonistic? Should I avoid posting information that is contrary to what has already been posted?'

 

That would make for a fairly boring forum, and would prevent a lot of important information from being discussed, don't you think?

[Phurfur 70]

I think your missing the point - Hgow many of those games did we not hear about a concussion- the 2 you mentioned we knew it was serious enough not to return to the game, but how many other times could he have been hit and suffered a concussion and still went back in to play?

This happens more than you realize, and if player is more prone to this issue, is kept out of games the less stats they can accumulate!

 

The facts sir just the facts. You were owned so leave it alone.

[OrangeSoda 2]

I guess we'll see- it'll suck for those owners who drafted Jay Cutler or Matt Stafford and started him over David Garrard (or whomevr they have as a backup) .... (becasue Cutler is the obvious choice)....But end up getting minimal to no points because he was knocked out on the 3rd play of the game and the NFL drs won't let him return.

 

My point is that some might consider moving them down a few spots if the QB is conncusion prone or has a horrific O line.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

I realize that it does happen. However, you are just mis-informed if you believe that medical doctors are looking at a player and thinking "he is concussed, but I'm being paid by the Packers, I'll clear him to go back in the game." There are quick tests that are administered on the sidelines to players who are believed to have suffered a concussion. If a Dr administered these tests, determined that a player was concussed, and then allowed him to play again, he/she would be subject to a malpractice suit, and when dealing with players who makes millions of dollars a year, no Dr is going to risk that, regardless if he/she is paid by the NFL team or by the NFL.

 

umm actually while i dont think these new rules will affect players like rodgers very much, the team doctor vs nfl doctor is a bigger issue than you think.

 

team doctors certainly act in the interest of the team. they may not send a player in to risk serious injury but i guarantee you they will get that player back in the game sooner than an NFL doctor is likely to.

[Houston Texans 10]

umm actually while i dont think these new rules will affect players like rodgers very much, the team doctor vs nfl doctor is a bigger issue than you think.

 

team doctors certainly act in the interest of the team. they may not send a player in to risk serious injury but i guarantee you they will get that player back in the game sooner than an NFL doctor is likely to.

Not in the context of this thread, it isn't.

 

The OP suggested that Rodgers may have played with concussions (plural) that weren't made public because team doctors didn't diagnose them. There isn't a team doctor who would do that, because there medical license would be on the line, and that is far more valuable than their position on the team.

 

And since the rules already say once a player is diagnosed with concussion symptoms, he can't play until he's cleared, that would mean a team doctor would have to ignore symptoms in order to allow a player to return any earlier than an NFL doctor would. That ain't gonna happen.

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

Not in the context of this thread, it isn't.

 

perhaps not, i was just saying there will be a difference in how quickly some of these guys get back on the field as NFL doctors will have no vested interest or pressure from coaches.

 

because there medical license would be on the line, and that is far more valuable than their position on the team.

 

dont be so sure of that

 

And since the rules already say once a player is diagnosed with concussion symptoms, he can't play until he's cleared, that would mean a team doctor would have to ignore symptoms in order to allow a player to return any earlier than an NFL doctor would. That ain't gonna happen.

[giraldi02 470]

I understand what the OP was trying to get at, but like the others I disagree to a certain extent about his argument. And I'm certainly not going to lower rodgers from the number one quarterback because of a possibility of concussions.

 

Having said that...when you've had one concussion, you are more susceptible to another. That's proven medical science. It's the very reason that they're doing this. Rodgers, Cutler, etc all are at more risk for another head injury.

 

Just don't draft because you're afraid of injuries, otherwise I'm guessing your draft board would be about 15 names, all of whom serve beverages with little G's on the side of the cup.

[devildog 0]

I understand what the OP was trying to get at, but like the others I disagree to a certain extent about his argument. And I'm certainly not going to lower rodgers from the number one quarterback because of a possibility of concussions.

 

Having said that...when you've had one concussion, you are more susceptible to another. That's proven medical science. It's the very reason that they're doing this. Rodgers, Cutler, etc all are at more risk for another head injury.

 

Just don't draft because you're afraid of injuries, otherwise I'm guessing your draft board would be about 15 names, all of whom serve beverages with little G's on the side of the cup.

 

Not sure id call it proven medical science. Sustaining a 2nd concussion when still recovering from the effects of a 1st is in fact much easier and also more serious. But whether you are more susceptible after you have completely recovered from a prior concussion is very much up for debate and has not been proven one way or he other.

[De Novo 0]

However, you are just mis-informed if you believe that medical doctors are looking at a player and thinking "he is concussed, but I'm being paid by the Packers, I'll clear him to go back in the game."

I think there is a big difference between a team doctor being told to look at a player and an NFL doctor saying "let me look at that player." Do you remember the game last year where Stewart Bradley got his bell rung, started running off the field, and then blacked out and fell flat on his face? Nobody checked him, even though it was obvious to anyone who's ever had a concussion that the guy had one. He was, of course, removed later due to a concussion and as I recall claims he doesn't remember most of the game.

 

With teams in charge, even the most extreme concussions slip through the cracks. With the league in charge, I think you will see a marked uptick in the number of players removed due to concussions. We won't hear as many quotes like "He just had his bell rung a little, he went back in there and did a great job."

[De Novo 0]

Not sure id call it proven medical science. Sustaining a 2nd concussion when still recovering from the effects of a 1st is in fact much easier and also more serious. But whether you are more susceptible after you have completely recovered from a prior concussion is very much up for debate and has not been proven one way or he other.

While it is up for debate, most people believe you are more susceptible. For example, I'd been diagnosed with 6 to 8 concussions (can't remember the exact number, and I'm sure there are at least 3 that weren't diagnosed). Each successive time, it takes less for for me to get one and longer to recover. The last concussion I had was from a fender bender that wouldn't have affected me at all when I was younger. But, I had headaches for 2 months and I'm still highly sensitive to light a year later. I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday, whether something happened 2 weeks ago or 4 months ago, and can't even shake my head side to side lest I feel like my brain is being punched and nearly falling down. So, I'm pretty confident that you are more susceptible after completely recovering (unless you never completely recover).

[devildog 0]

While it is up for debate, most people believe you are more susceptible. For example, I'd been diagnosed with 6 to 8 concussions (can't remember the exact number, and I'm sure there are at least 3 that weren't diagnosed). Each successive time, it takes less for for me to get one and longer to recover. The last concussion I had was from a fender bender that wouldn't have affected me at all when I was younger. But, I had headaches for 2 months and I'm still highly sensitive to light a year later. I can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday, whether something happened 2 weeks ago or 4 months ago, and can't even shake my head side to side lest I feel like my brain is being punched and nearly falling down. So, I'm pretty confident that you are more susceptible after completely recovering (unless you never completely recover).

 

Sounds very much like you had pile on concussions and have had some brain damage as a result unfortunately.

[giraldi02 470]

Not sure id call it proven medical science. Sustaining a 2nd concussion when still recovering from the effects of a 1st is in fact much easier and also more serious. But whether you are more susceptible after you have completely recovered from a prior concussion is very much up for debate and has not been proven one way or he other.

 

The Journal of the American Medical Association says otherwise. Likewise several other reputable medical sources. I have never heard anyone refute this FACT. Oh...wait...I guess if John Clayton says so its true.

[devildog 0]

The Journal of the American Medical Association says otherwise. Likewise several other reputable medical sources. I have never heard anyone refute this FACT. Oh...wait...I guess if John Clayton says so its true.

 

no they don't. there are experts on both sides of the debate. its hardly a fact

[giraldi02 470]

http://jama.ama-assn.org/search?fulltext=concussion&submit=yes&x=15&y=10.

 

Please...do read many of the studies performed regarding concussions. Now...please do provide me with some..or one..that says that recurrence of concussions is not more likely after your first.

 

Rodgers, cutler, and anyone else that have been concussed are more susceptible. Sorry, but they are. I never said I wouldn't take them, so don't think I'm trying to fish here to lower your ranking or make you worried.

 

The original poster made a valid point but went a little overboard in his/her total argument. I merely spoke the truth though...and the facts are there...you just have to deviate from ESPN.com and rotoworld ok?

[devildog 0]

http://jama.ama-assn.org/search?fulltext=concussion&submit=yes&x=15&y=10.

 

Please...do read many of the studies performed regarding concussions. Now...please do provide me with some..or one..that says that recurrence of concussions is not more likely after your first.

 

Rodgers, cutler, and anyone else that have been concussed are more susceptible. Sorry, but they are. I never said I wouldn't take them, so don't think I'm trying to fish here to lower your ranking or make you worried.

 

The original poster made a valid point but went a little overboard in his/her total argument. I merely spoke the truth though...and the facts are there...you just have to deviate from ESPN.com and rotoworld ok?

 

You havent listed a single article that states once fully recovered you are more likely to get another concussion. Are you more likely if you are still experiences effects of the 1st? yes. Can it take up to a year to recover? yes. Are you probably more likely in the same season? yes. Are you more likely a year or more later if fully recovered and experiencing no effects? that has not been proven one way or the other yet. ESPN and rotoworld lol. This research is a big part of my job.

[OrangeSoda 2]

the point of the post was to just install some thought - i just think about how many times this year a player (regardless of position) will be held out of the game because of this new rule, and how that might effect the weekly matchup outcome from week to week!

 

Got to admit it sucked when Deshaun Jackson got his bell rung in the 2nd qtr of that game last year- and when it's all said and done if he would have 20 more yrds you would have won that week?

 

in the QB case- how much of a disadvatnage are you in if your QB gets a concusion on the first drive, and cant return.

 

I'm just guessing your going to see more guys missing more playing time becasue of this!

[giraldi02 470]

You havent listed a single article that states once fully recovered you are more likely to get another concussion. Are you more likely if you are still experiences effects of the 1st? yes. Can it take up to a year to recover? yes. Are you probably more likely in the same season? yes. Are you more likely a year or more later if fully recovered and experiencing no effects? that has not been proven one way or the other yet. ESPN and rotoworld lol. This research is a big part of my job.

 

I haven't seen anything from you that states that its debated. What physician or neurological doctor is arguing this? Additionally, a concussion is brain damage. So do tell me....who is debating whether after suffering brain damage, regardless of the "severity", the likelihood of suffering additional brain damage isn't increased?

 

 

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/290/19/2549.full

http://www.aans.org/Patient%20Information/Conditions%20and%20Treatments/Concussion.aspx?p=1

 

http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/head.html

 

http://www.childrenshospital.org/clinicalservices/Site1172/mainpageS1172P36.html

 

brainsafety.com/your-brain-and-concussions.html