murf74 461 Posted February 4, 2013 He said he was elite an has played elite entire playoffs. So is this the real Flacco or just a hot hand/team? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roroco 75 Posted February 4, 2013 Big ben, Eli, Flacco.... All good enough to win Superbowls, but all require great teams around them because of inconsistency. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,310 Posted February 4, 2013 Flacco is elite now. Learn to live with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 982 Posted February 4, 2013 I think Boldin should have been MVP though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUXBNME 1,324 Posted February 4, 2013 Put Flacco in Arizona and see how he fares. Good QB? sure. Elite? No way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,310 Posted February 4, 2013 I think Boldin should have been MVP though. Boldin had a great game for sure. Thought it was between him, Flacco, and Jacoby Jones. At the end of the day you just can't argue with Flacco's line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LunaTick 29 Posted February 4, 2013 He said he was elite an has played elite entire playoffs. So is this the real Flacco or just a hot hand/team? There is Elite, in terms of the NFL versus in terms of Fantasy Football versus in terms of HOF. As others has stated, in terms of FF, his inconsistency would prevent him from being Elite (Tier One). In terms of getting your team to Post Season and into the Super Bowl. He maybe close, but not quite the Top Dollar dog yet. HOF, as of today only reason he may have a shot is he got a Ring. Its too early. He is going to command it for a few reasons. 1) timing (FA quality next few sucks) 2) Fitting the System of the Ravens. Just think, it has taken until now for the Ravens to be back in the Super Bowl after having made it with Trent Dilfer and Tony Banks. I think it fair to equate him with Ben, Eli, ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadLizard 73 Posted February 4, 2013 Big ben, Eli, Flacco.... All good enough to win Superbowls, but all require great teams around them because of inconsistency. There isn't a QB that's ever won a Super Bowl who didn't need a great team around them. Brady, manning, Montana, any of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf74 461 Posted February 4, 2013 There isn't a QB that's ever won a Super Bowl who didn't need a great team around them. Brady, manning, Montana, any of them. EXACTLY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted February 4, 2013 I think the real question is just what created the success we eventually saw? I firmly believe that Flacco's success is certainly the supporting cast, but also Jim Caldwell. The insipid play calling and scheme management of Cam Cameron was always the factor denying this team access to greatness. His removal, above all else, was pivotal in allowing the talent that they had on offense to manifest. I believe Cameron is probably an excellent QB coach, and likely could be a good OC on another team with talent more suitable to his system, but his presence within the Ravens was the factor holding back the development of what we eventually saw. Flacco likely gets his $$ after all this, which means the team has to get rid of talent. SO once gain, you unfortunately have one player causing his team to be diminished, and likely lose its competitiveness, but getting that $$ is always going to trump being successful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted February 4, 2013 There isn't a QB that's ever won a Super Bowl who didn't need a great team around them. Brady, manning, Montana, any of them. Absolutely true. No one does it alone, never has, never will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 59 Posted February 4, 2013 I think Boldin should have been MVP though. I agree with this. Flacco had a very good first half, but where was he in the second? After the power outage, the Ravens seemed flat, and it certainly wasn't Flacco that gave any life to them. I thought the coaches did a great job mixing the play-calling to generate some stability, and Boldin made all the hard catches. He dropped two pretty easy catches, which probably weighed against him, but he was the man. That 4th-and-inches grab - credited to Flacco as a gutsy call and throw - was a tremendous catch by a determined wide receiver. He did that a few times during the game. A game that tense, that tight . . . I'm not looking for the prettiest stat line; I'm looking for the guy that made the biggest difference when it counted the most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roroco 75 Posted February 4, 2013 There isn't a QB that's ever won a Super Bowl who didn't need a great team around them. Brady, manning, Montana, any of them. I agree. But, great QBs can hide some deficiencies in certain teams and make some players much better. I don't think Ben, Eli, or Flacco are those kind of players. I think they are talented enough, but if their teams struggle in one aspect of the game, they can't put the team on their shoulders - on a consistent basis - like the other guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jarvis Basnight 119 Posted February 4, 2013 Everything lined up for Fucco this offseason, and he's going to cash in. Boldin had one last great few games in the playoffs. The defense heated up for the playoffs. The OL gave Fucco plenty of time. He's about to get a huge contract while many other guys will be moving on. In fantasy I want nothing to do with him next year......Kaepernick on the other hand... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted February 4, 2013 The defense heated up for the playoffs. they let up 35 and 31, that's heating up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jarvis Basnight 119 Posted February 4, 2013 they let up 35 and 31, that's heating up? Created TO's and had a huge goal line stand. Playing Peyton in Denver was a tough task for any D this year. Oh, and lets not forget the 13 they gave up to the hapless Patsies and the 9 points given up to Indy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted February 4, 2013 Created TO's and had a huge goal line stand. Playing Peyton in Denver was a tough task for any D this year. Oh, and lets not forget the 13 they gave up to the hapless Patsies and the 9 points given up to Indy. 35 and 31 is NOT heating up, it's barely cooling down. they beat Denver and SF mostly because they outscored them, not because the defense heated up. without the offense outscoring Denver, they don't even see the next round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted February 4, 2013 I think Boldin should have been MVP though. UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Jacoby Jones was ROBBED of the MVP -- a 108 yd return TD and a 60 yard bomb catch which he fell to his back got up made a guy miss and scored a TD. Flacco while solid maybe had his worst game of the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted February 4, 2013 There are 4 Elite QB's still Brady/P. Manning/Brees/Rodgers Then I put Flacco -- there are 4 QB's I would rather have for 2013 -- Only Rodgers/Luck/ and maybe RGIII would I rather have long term than Flacco. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf74 461 Posted February 5, 2013 I agree. But, great QBs can hide some deficiencies in certain teams and make some players much better. I don't think Ben, Eli, or Flacco are those kind of players. I think they are talented enough, but if their teams struggle in one aspect of the game, they can't put the team on their shoulders - on a consistent basis - like the other guys. The best judge is take a QB off a team how well will their offense do. Saints would suck, Packers would suck, Steelers would suck, Ravens would be OK, Giants would be OK, Patriots wouldn't be the same but never suck, Broncos made the playoffs last year with Tebow. my 2 cents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TopTierFB_Nate 0 Posted February 6, 2013 He's here to stay as the Raven's franchise QB. His postseason play was at a very high level but I'll need to see a larger sample size to move him into the top 10 for fantasy football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IGotWorms 3,310 Posted February 6, 2013 The agent for Baltimore Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco said Tuesday he thinks his client should be the highest paid at the position in the NFL. Agent Joe Linta, when asked in an interview with CNBC if Flacco should be the highest paid quarterback, simply responded, "Yes." Flacco, 28, is younger than Peyton Manning ($18 million) and Drew Brees ($20 million) and, as of Sunday, has as many Super Bowl titles as each of them. Linta said those are the numbers that matter. "When you do a contract of this magnitude, you look at what is the player's body of work presently," Linta told CNBC. "And what are the expectations going forward over the next four, five or six years. Probably just posturing. I can't imagine him getting more than $20 million per year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Mueller 146 Posted February 6, 2013 Do you guys think Boldin stays next year? I think his loss would hurt Flacco in the short term. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Moz 69 Posted February 6, 2013 I would not go higher than 14 million a year. I could see a long term 8-10 year deal front loaded but adding up to about 1g mil a year. Eli and Big Ben barely get over 15 mil and they have 2 rings each. You have an aging D and a aging Line and Boldin is old as well. Is Flacco that Manning , Brady , Favre type QB that can make any team into a playoff team? -- NO he isn't so rebuild instead of paying him 20-22 mil Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphster 274 Posted February 6, 2013 I would not go higher than 14 million a year. I could see a long term 8-10 year deal front loaded but adding up to about 1g mil a year. Eli and Big Ben barely get over 15 mil and they have 2 rings each. You have an aging D and a aging Line and Boldin is old as well. Is Flacco that Manning , Brady , Favre type QB that can make any team into a playoff team? -- NO he isn't so rebuild instead of paying him 20-22 mil Do you think they would trade him to KC or someone else like AZ? Pure speculation, but its an intriguing idea. You can pay the guy and kill your team because of the cap, or you can send him packing, get a boatload of picks (or fitz) in return and keep the team intact. Is Troy Smith any good at all? As is sits they're losing Lewis, Reed will likely go to the highest bidder, and Boldin + probably Birk + a couple others are gone due to cap space... I think Biscioti would consider this except the fan base would revolt en masse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,556 Posted February 6, 2013 Do you guys think Boldin stays next year? I think his loss would hurt Flacco in the short term. I'd be curious to see the numbers on qbs getting huge deals and their teams not winning a super bowl from there on out. it seems as if when QBs get a huge payday, it makes it harder for the team to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lesjroza 70 Posted February 6, 2013 Do you guys think Boldin stays next year? I think his loss would hurt Flacco in the short term. If I had to guess, I would think Boldin makes it to the open market. Whether he finds a team that will give him a significant multi-year deal at his age is in question. It would not surprise me if he were to end up back in Baltimore on some kind of weirdly structured deal after testing FA. I think if Baltimore signs Flacco to a long term deal despite other needs they will draft WRs early this year and maybe next as well. This is a solid WR class. There are no obvious elite prospects but in terms of the depth of the class there are some really good guys who are going to go later than they probably should in the NFL draft due to the quality of depth. It would not surprise me if Balt were to use multiple high picks this year on WR if Boldin is gone and possibly the 1st round pick even if he stays. I suspect it will be big bodied guys with a wide target area but I do think Flacco's stats would be hurt in the short term and who knows, that could even be the negotiating plan, tag him this year, let Boldin walk and push the multi-year deal out for another year. Assuming they sign Flacco long term I do think the team will focus on offense and it will be very positive for Flaccos stats. This is only part of what I speculated in a different Flacco thread prior to the Super Bowl you can find here... http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=416211 Interestingly, the senitiment I'm seeing now seems to be that Flacco "will never be more than a low end QB1". Mid-season and for the previous year sentiment was that he was at best "an average QB2 with no upside". FF players are a fickle lot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted February 6, 2013 35 and 31 is NOT heating up, it's barely cooling down. they beat Denver and SF mostly because they outscored them, not because the defense heated up. without the offense outscoring Denver, they don't even see the next round. Well the Ravens' defense only gave up 21 points to the Broncos' offense because they scored on 2 returns. And while we're at it, Baltimore's offense 'only' scored 28 points that day because their defense returned an INT for a TD. The best judge is take a QB off a team how well will their offense do. Saints would suck, Packers would suck, Steelers would suck, Ravens would be OK, Giants would be OK, Patriots wouldn't be the same but never suck, Broncos made the playoffs last year with Tebow. my 2 cents Soooooo by that logic - Ben Roethlisberger is a better QB than Peyton Manning? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted February 7, 2013 Contractually, Flacco could emerge as the top paid player, not just the top paid QB. Mainly because of timing and leverage. I think he is perhaps the 8th best QB in the league right now. However, the Ravens are going to want to lock him up, I bet they do not go the franchise route at all on this guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmbryant09 1 Posted February 7, 2013 Contractually, Flacco could emerge as the top paid player, not just the top paid QB. Mainly because of timing and leverage. I think he is perhaps the 8th best QB in the league right now. However, the Ravens are going to want to lock him up, I bet they do not go the franchise route at all on this guy. I'm sure they want to lock him up, but this is the absolute WORST time for the Ravens to negotiate with Flacco. Free agent? Check Weak QB Class/FA Class? Check Coming off of his best season? Check Coming off of, perhaps, his best/biggest 4 games in his career? Check SB MVP? Check There's no way Flacco will be a top3 QB for the next 5 years, which is why I can't fathom any team giving him $20+ million a year. Flacco can't really do anything to improve his leverage. He already wants to be paid like the best, when we all know he isn't. Franchise him for 2013, and when he has another mediocre season with 3,800 yards, 24 TD's and the Ravens lose in the playoffs, lock him up with a 5 year, $75 million contract. The only way this situation gets complicated is if Flacco threatens a holdout. For the record, though, I fully expect Baltimore to sign him to a 5 year/$100 million contract. And I fully expect them to regret that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,455 Posted February 7, 2013 I'm sure they want to lock him up, but this is the absolute WORST time for the Ravens to negotiate with Flacco. Free agent? Check Weak QB Class/FA Class? Check Coming off of his best season? Check Coming off of, perhaps, his best/biggest 4 games in his career? Check SB MVP? Check There's no way Flacco will be a top3 QB for the next 5 years, which is why I can't fathom any team giving him $20+ million a year. Flacco can't really do anything to improve his leverage. He already wants to be paid like the best, when we all know he isn't. Franchise him for 2013, and when he has another mediocre season with 3,800 yards, 24 TD's and the Ravens lose in the playoffs, lock him up with a 5 year, $75 million contract. The only way this situation gets complicated is if Flacco threatens a holdout. For the record, though, I fully expect Baltimore to sign him to a 5 year/$100 million contract. And I fully expect them to regret that. Agree across the board, he will not be worth what they will have to pay to keep him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted February 9, 2013 There isn't a QB that's ever won a Super Bowl who didn't need a great team around them. Brady, manning, Montana, any of them. What there are a ton of though, is great all all around teams that didnt win because they didnt have a good enough QB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf74 461 Posted February 9, 2013 I'm sure they want to lock him up, but this is the absolute WORST time for the Ravens to negotiate with Flacco. Free agent? Check Weak QB Class/FA Class? Check Coming off of his best season? Check Coming off of, perhaps, his best/biggest 4 games in his career? Check SB MVP? Check There's no way Flacco will be a top3 QB for the next 5 years, which is why I can't fathom any team giving him $20+ million a year. Flacco can't really do anything to improve his leverage. He already wants to be paid like the best, when we all know he isn't. Franchise him for 2013, and when he has another mediocre season with 3,800 yards, 24 TD's and the Ravens lose in the playoffs, lock him up with a 5 year, $75 million contract. The only way this situation gets complicated is if Flacco threatens a holdout. For the record, though, I fully expect Baltimore to sign him to a 5 year/$100 million contract. And I fully expect them to regret that. Great analysis....and this contract is going to handcuff them on salary cap for years to come. He is a very solid qb but will be paid waaaaay more than he should because of hot hand in playoffs Didnt ravens lose 4 or last 5 games and lose games to QB great Batch barely beat KC and the Browns? Looking forward to Flacco making his team offensive heavy in cap space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgcrawfish 232 Posted February 10, 2013 As a Steelers fan I can only hope he takes them to the cleaners and hamstrings their cap situation for years to come, just like Roethlisberger is doing to Pittsburgh. : Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DankNuggs 305 Posted February 11, 2013 I'm sure they want to lock him up, but this is the absolute WORST time for the Ravens to negotiate with Flacco. Free agent? Check Weak QB Class/FA Class? Check Coming off of his best season? Check Coming off of, perhaps, his best/biggest 4 games in his career? Check SB MVP? Check There's no way Flacco will be a top3 QB for the next 5 years, which is why I can't fathom any team giving him $20+ million a year. Flacco can't really do anything to improve his leverage. He already wants to be paid like the best, when we all know he isn't. Franchise him for 2013, and when he has another mediocre season with 3,800 yards, 24 TD's and the Ravens lose in the playoffs, lock him up with a 5 year, $75 million contract. The only way this situation gets complicated is if Flacco threatens a holdout. For the record, though, I fully expect Baltimore to sign him to a 5 year/$100 million contract. And I fully expect them to regret that. Agreed, he is a second tier QB, above average. they should DEFINITELY franchise him unless that can lock him down <15mm per season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
