Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

 

Actually I think this game was his gutsiest performance of all time. The 1989 Eagles were knocking him silly, and he got up off the Vet Stadium concrete to pull it off. I hate the 49ers, but even I got inspired watching a normally stoic Montana getting fired up after the winning score. Point of the post being, he is often thought of as a frail and pretty boy QB with those stork legs of his (especially by people who never saw him play), but dude was a freaking assassin.

 

Best QB all time? Montana, hands down.

 

http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/7/6/3141942/49ers-vs-eagles-joe-montanas-big-comeback

 

I remember that one as well. He was sacked like 7 or 8 times, with the hostile Eagles' fans frothing at the mouth....and blistered Buddy Ryan's defence for four (4) 4th quarter TDs.

 

 

I remember it well. The "soft" California team was supposed to walk into the frozen tundra and get killed by the big bad Bears. Montana would be lucky to survive

He played a near-perfect game that day.

 

That's the exact type of scenario where we've seen Manning go into cold, nasty Foxboro, play lousy, lose, and then cry about the refs.

 

Yes, the pre-game hype even had me worried a bit as well. But we know how that game turned out.

 

You make a good point about Manning. Montana got his nickname, Joe Cool, due to the confidence his team had in him in clutch and pressure situations, and the fact that when they did lose the odd time, he never groused or pointed fingers. I might be wrong but it seems like every time Manning has lost in the playoffs, it was either the refs' fault, or he was throwing teammates under the bus. To me, he's never really had the "it" factor that true leaders do.

 

I think these "best ever" discussions are funny, because the QBs discussed are invariably from the 80's onwards. There were some fantastic QBs from previous eras that are never mentioned, as we've never really seen them play - I think the odd person mentions Unitas, but as a token throw-in. What about the Jurgensens, Starrs, Staubachs, Tittles, and Luckmans of this world? How would they fare in today's pass-first era?

[R8RMick 242]

Staubach would be the guy I'd want, with his strong arm and scrambling ability.

[highsider5 36]

How about passing in an era before today's skirt like additions to the game, can't hit the QB, that stupid tuck rule, the escalating pass interference barriers... +1 on today's game being different, I think it's gotten way easier for QB's, touchdowns come easier today IMO.

[seattleslew 0]

How about passing in an era before today's skirt like additions to the game, can't hit the QB, that stupid tuck rule, the escalating pass interference barriers... +1 on today's game being different, I think it's gotten way easier for QB's, touchdowns come easier today IMO.

 

True but I think winning championships has gotten more random (talent margin between teams smaller in playoffs, thus more of a crapshoot)

[skinsrule05 30]

Peyton is certainly top 3, and I actually think he's the best QB of all-time. But when discussing Greatest-of-all-Time, one must look at the entire resume.

 

Unfortunately for Manning, some things like playoff records and SB rings are on that resume, and that is what is (for the time being, at least) keeping Manning from claiming the top spot.

 

But anyone who thinks Peyton isn't clutch is just downright lazy. You probably did nothing but look up Peyton's playoff record...Failing to recognize that his defense has given up 5 4th-quarter playoff leads - most in NFL history (2nd place only had it happen to them twice). Failing to recognize that his kicker has hurt him nearly as much as Vinatieri helped Brady. Failing to recognize that his playoff QB rating is actually higher than Brady's. I really don't mean to make this into a Brady vs. Manning - just pointing out that Brady is widely regarded as "clutch", while Manning isn't.

 

I do think Peyton needs at least 1 more ring to equal or surpass Joe Montana. Until then, he's "just" the best regular-season QB the NFL has ever seen who also has a SB MVP to his name.

 

You are right I never looked it up and I would have never thought this in a million years. Regular season it was always a slam dunk that Manning is the best. But now with these I am taking the choke label off him for the playoffs. He moves ahead of Montana in my mind.

[highsider5 36]

 

True but I think winning championships has gotten more random (talent margin between teams smaller in playoffs, thus more of a crapshoot)

 

Well I have two words for anyone who only measures players by the presence of a ring...

 

Trent Dilfer

[seattleslew 0]

Amazing Peyton has won anything with head coaching like this.

 

Next play after this time management gem by Caldwell, Jets complete a long pass for an easy game winning FG to eliminate Colts.

 

[WR Guru 31]

NFL was a different league when Montana won 4 Super Bowls.

 

Teams much easier to hold together for a longer period of time.

 

If Manning wins a SB with Denver he will have gotten there with head coaches Dungy, Caldwell, and Fox. Not exactly Bill Walsh.

 

I am not a guy who considers # of championships most important, but two SB on diff teams with those coaches would have to put him in the "greatest of all time" conversation

Again, this is just flat out wrong.

 

You could make this argument with Bradshaw, but not Montana. He won his 4 titles with 3 very different teams. Yes, the 88 and 89 teams were largely the same, but the 81 team and the 84 team were entirely different. The constants were Montana and Bill Walsh.

[seattleslew 0]

Again, this is just flat out wrong.

 

You could make this argument with Bradshaw, but not Montana. He won his 4 titles with 3 very different teams. Yes, the 88 and 89 teams were largely the same, but the 81 team and the 84 team were entirely different. The constants were Montana and Bill Walsh.

 

Agreed they were different in early and later parts of the decade, naturally. But the market allowed them to keep a lot more pieces from year to year, and remain competitive (49ers also went to two more NFC championships that decade). Today in a QB league you pay Flacco 120 million after he wins a title and gut the entire franchise. Much harder to win multiple titles.

[WR Guru 31]

 

 

 

I think these "best ever" discussions are funny, because the QBs discussed are invariably from the 80's onwards. There were some fantastic QBs from previous eras that are never mentioned, as we've never really seen them play - I think the odd person mentions Unitas, but as a token throw-in. What about the Jurgensens, Starrs, Staubachs, Tittles, and Luckmans of this world? How would they fare in today's pass-first era?

I think you almost have to differentiate between the modern era, which encompasses the late 70s to the present, and the older era.

 

The dividing line is the rule changes in the '70s that allowed offensive lineman to use their hands, making pass blocking much easier, and the "5-yard chuck" rule, allowing receivers a free release off the line of scrimmage, which revolutionized timing routes and the short passing game (such as Walsh's "west coast offense"). Those rule changes, plus subsequent ones, made the NFL much more of a quarterback's league.

[kmbryant09 1]

Amazing Peyton has won anything with head coaching like this.

 

Next play after this time management gem by Caldwell, Jets complete a long pass for an easy game winning FG to eliminate Colts.

 

Don't forget the 50 yard kick return allows by his special teams with under a minute to go in that game. Ya know, after Manning marched Jacob Tamme and Blair White down the field for what should have been a game-winning FG.

 

Or when Vanderjagt shanked a FG against the Steelers.

 

Or when his defense gave up a game-tying-TD at the end of the 4th quarter to the Chargers, only to see the Chargers win the toss in OT, and win the game without ever allowing Manning a chance to score.

 

We all know Manning SUCKED in playoff games early in his career. But if you look at what he's done since ~2005, he's really been a very good playoff QB.

[parrot 789]

We all know Manning SUCKED in playoff games early in his career. But if you look at what he's done since ~2005, he's really been a very good playoff QB.

 

In the 2006 playoffs, their Superbowl winning season, he threw 3 touchdowns and 7 picks in 4 games, averaged ~ 64% - 250 yds a game, and had a passer rating of 70.5. Against Baltimore he threw three picks and they never scored a touchdown, winning on five Vinatieri field goals. In his defense, he did bring them back in the second half against NE, after falling in a 21-6 hole in the first half. Of course he helped put them in that whole by throwing a pick-6. Tying back into our last exchange, this was another game where the Pats defense gave up two more fourth quarter leads.

[seattleslew 0]

 

In the 2006 playoffs, their Superbowl winning season, he threw 3 touchdowns and 7 picks in 4 games, averaged ~ 64% - 250 yds a game, and had a passer rating of 70.5. Against Baltimore he threw three picks and they never scored a touchdown, winning on five Vinatieri field goals. In his defense, he did bring them back in the second half against NE, after falling in a 21-6 hole in the first half. Of course he helped put them in that whole by throwing a pick-6. Tying back into our last exchange, this was another game where the Pats defense gave up two more fourth quarter leads.

 

That year was a good indication of how random NFL playoffs have become (if we don't need fantasy football to know that). Manning's best postseasons statistically didn't lead to a championship, but one of his worst did. Besides the Pats game which WAS the 2007 Super Bowl IMO. Let's also not forget the best team by a mile that year was sitting at home at that point because of Marty ball (Chargers).

[WR Guru 31]

How do you Manning apologists just completely dismiss the fact that, in the biggest moment of his career - the one moment that would have erased the naysayers - with the Super Bowl on his arm, he throws a pick-6 to lose it? That is a career-defining moment. You can say that's unfair all you want, but it's a fact.

[tanatastic 2,061]

How do you Manning apologists just completely dismiss the fact that, in the biggest moment of his career - the one moment that would have erased the naysayers - with the Super Bowl on his arm, he throws a pick-6 to lose it? That is a career-defining moment. You can say that's unfair all you want, but it's a fact.

So true. There are career defining moments and stretches. Favre throwing the int vs eagles is one of them, mannings pick6 is another. Brady's last decade without a ring, blowing a perfect season and flaming out in the playoffs after being a yearly SB favorite is another. The popular sentiment was that Brady is close to Montana but needs 1 more ring...However I feel that even if he wins 1 more, the futility of last bunch of years makes it not stack up and he still falls short by a hair. I'm sorry but playoff body of work has to carry heavy weight. Not so much SB rings, but overall postseason career.

 

 

Someone in this thread commented that Marino>Favre. This is sickening. Look at favres yearly stats, his mvps, erasing Marino from the record book single handedly, then throw in the 1 SB and u have a STRICTLY better QB. Marino didn't even have that many great years, he had a few and then a ton of meh years.

 

Montana

Manning

Brady

Favre

[WR Guru 31]

In Marino's defense, the Dolphins failed for years to put talent around him. He never had a premiere RB to work with. He turned a couple of dwarfs - Clayton and Duper - into stars. Rejuvenated the career of an infamous 1st round bust, Irving Fryar. It's criminal that the Dolphins never gave him the weapons. He's the best pure passer I ever saw, hands down, and it's not particularly close. Scary to think what he might have done with a Marvin Harrison or a Wayne or a Demaryius Thomas. Or an Edge James in the backfield...

[tanatastic 2,061]

In Marino's defense, the Dolphins failed for years to put talent around him. He never had a premiere RB to work with. He turned a couple of dwarfs - Clayton and Duper - into stars. Rejuvenated the career of an infamous 1st round bust, Irving Fryar. It's criminal that the Dolphins never gave him the weapons. He's the best pure passer I ever saw, hands down, and it's not particularly close. Scary to think what he might have done with a Marvin Harrison or a Wayne or a Demaryius Thomas. Or an Edge James in the backfield...

He did get the shaft for teammates. But to me that's part of it, making ur guys appear like stars when they might not be. Defenses can be good just cuz the qb keeps so many drives alive they stay fresh. Ill agree Marino got a raw deal but it is what it is, I'd rank Brees and Rodgers ahead of him altho premature a little, I feel it's safe.