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cyclone24

Ok need some commish help....

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Here's our situation....and yes we are changing it, yes I'm aware this is a dumb way we did things...

 

 

Top 6 seeds make our playoffs and there is a scenario with this weeks games where 6 teams could be tied at 7-7 vying for 3 spots. So I bring it up to our league that our tiebreaker goes head to head, season series, then points.

 

Well with 6 teams tied its impossible to get head to head and splits to determine the 3 spots

 

So what we've done over the last few years is of the tied teams....who had the most wins vs the other tied teams to determine the playoffs.

 

Well....of course NOW...even though we've done this before....owners are complaining. Some want it off points....it's not technically in the rules that we determine it this way....but we have been doing it for years.

 

Do I switch the playoff criteia prior to this weeks games to a more logical determination or do we stay the same and change it for next year?

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stay the same and change next year.

 

cant change it during the season.

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Let me guess - The teams that want it to be determined by the most points, have the most points. While I believe that total points is the best way to break ties in Fantasy (it rewards the best team for the entire year, not select games), you cannot use this as a tiebreaker this year. Rules should never be changed in season, unless you can get every team in the league to agree. If you changed it to total points one week prior to seasons end, and I had the least points - I would be furious!!! BTW, when I say every team, I mean every team. If 11 of 12 teams wanted it changed and there was just one that didn't, you can't change it from a fairness standpoint (for an in season change).

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stay the same and change next year.

 

cant change it during the season.

 

 

This

 

We had the exact same issue. We went onto the next tie breaker.

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Someone who says "I think we should use the most points as the tiebreaker" is basically the same as saying "hey guys, you should all vote for me to make the playoffs". Because it's not like that guy hasn't bothered to check whether that might help him or not.

 

You keep the same system for now, change it next year.

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Let me guess - The teams that want it to be determined by the most points, have the most points. While I believe that total points is the best way to break ties in Fantasy (it rewards the best team for the entire year, not select games), you cannot use this as a tiebreaker this year. Rules should never be changed in season, unless you can get every team in the league to agree. If you changed it to total points one week prior to seasons end, and I had the least points - I would be furious!!! BTW, when I say every team, I mean every team. If 11 of 12 teams wanted it changed and there was just one that didn't, you can't change it from a fairness standpoint (for an in season change).

This. We use head-to-head first tiebreaker between two teams, total pts next. Tiebreakers with multiple teams is always total pts. With decimal scoring it's fool proof.

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You have to go with status quo and vote to change for next season. It's the only fair way for everyone.

 

I consistantly laugh at people who use most points as a first tiebreaker or as an indication of "best" team.

 

If it were just about points, then there wouldn't be wins and losses. Just do like some roto baseball leagues and do categories or just rank by points straight up. It's foolish.

 

If an NFL team scores the most points in the season it means nothing, and it shouldn't. Football is about wins and losses, not points. What did Denver's total points matter when they played New England (they are now +144, and only a 1 game lead)?

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Your Tiebreaker...

1 head to head,

2 season series,

3 points.

 

I don't see a problem with the tiebreakers that you have, you just have to apply them properly. First off Head to Head is Win/Loss/Tie percentage, in a 6 way tie that would be the record in the games played within the tie ie; 5-1 or 2-3 or 1-5, get it?

You apply your tie breakers in order until you can eliminate 1 or more teams, then you start over at 1 with the remaining teams and again apply the tiebreakers in order and eliminate more teams, once you eliminate all but 1 team THAT TEAM ADVANCES.

Now you repeat the process with the remaining teams.

 

Here are our tiebreakers...

 

Division Tie Breakers
1) Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2) Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3) total points
4) total points against opp in tie
5) margin of victory over opp in tie
6) cbs sportsline power ranking
7) coin flip

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM

If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs , the following steps will be taken.

If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Playoff tie breakers
1) head to head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2) total points
3) total points against opp in tie
4) margin of victory over opp in tie
5) cbs sportsline power ranking
6) coin flip
as a team in a multiple team tie ADVANCES
tie breakers start over at head to head
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1
**REGULAR SEASON TIES REMAIN TIES**
NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs.

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Someone who says "I think we should use the most points as the tiebreaker" is basically the same as saying "hey guys, you should all vote for me to make the playoffs". Because it's not like that guy hasn't bothered to check whether that might help him or not.

 

You keep the same system for now, change it next year.

 

Well this person has a valid point.....they are second in the league in scoring, will win their division and there's a scenario under our current rules that if they tie a certain team they beat twice this year....who is tied for 3rd in their division and scored many less points....he would actually not make playoffs and the lesser tied team would.

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Well this person has a valid point.....they are second in the league in scoring, will win their division and there's a scenario under our current rules that if they tie a certain team they beat twice this year....who is tied for 3rd in their division and scored many less points....he would actually not make playoffs and the lesser tied team would.

 

If he wins his division how does he not make the playoffs? Doesn't that guarantee a playoff spot?

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Well this person has a valid point.....they are second in the league in scoring, will win their division and there's a scenario under our current rules that if they tie a certain team they beat twice this year....who is tied for 3rd in their division and scored many less points....he would actually not make playoffs and the lesser tied team would.

 

Valid point... for NEXT year.

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You guys keep saying head to head....but with 3 divisions you have some teams that are 1-0 against each other...and a couple that are 1-1 or 2-0 vs some of the other teams they are tied with.....that make sense?

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If he wins his division how does he not make the playoffs? Doesn't that guarantee a playoff spot?

Not in ours because we didn't like rewarding a team in a crap division. I know....dumb....wasn't my rule.

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You should always break ties within the division to come up with a division winner first. for wildcards, you apply your tiebreakers in order, if you cannot apply a step you go to the next step.

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Not in ours because we didn't like rewarding a team in a crap division. I know....dumb....wasn't my rule.

Then why have divisions at all if they are arbitrary? Baffles me.

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Then why have divisions at all if they are arbitrary? Baffles me.

Ehh...scheduling, we are geographically spread out across the country so it fits....I dunno.

 

We just had a year where a 6-8 team made playoffs and people got bent out of shape....I know...football works that way...

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You guys keep saying head to head....but with 3 divisions you have some teams that are 1-0 against each other...and a couple that are 1-1 or 2-0 vs some of the other teams they are tied with.....that make sense?

Without division winners and with the first 2 tiebreakers unusable then Points it is. I say your written rules trump precedent.

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Total points should be the first tiebreaker. It reveals the best team. If I lost a bunch of games where I had the second highest league point total but was randomly playing the team with the highest, I should not be penalized.

 

EDIT: I mean I believe that this should be the case in general. You should keep your rules set at the beginning of the season and change only after.

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Total points should be the first tiebreaker. It reveals the best team. If I lost a bunch of games where I had the second highest league point total but was randomly playing the team with the highest, I should not be penalized.

 

EDIT: I mean I believe that this should be the case in general. You should keep your rules set at the beginning of the season and change only after.

Agreed 100%.

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I consistantly laugh at people who use most points as a first tiebreaker or as an indication of "best" team.

 

If it were just about points, then there wouldn't be wins and losses. Just do like some roto baseball leagues and do categories or just rank by points straight up. It's foolish.

 

If an NFL team scores the most points in the season it means nothing, and it shouldn't. Football is about wins and losses, not points. What did Denver's total points matter when they played New England (they are now +144, and only a 1 game lead)?

Here why...

Because in the real game of football the teams actually played against each other on a field.

This game we just add stats up.

The better team is the one with most points all season, not one week.

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The OP isn't as screwed as he thinks. There's nothing quite like a good old-fashioned six-way tie for those three remaining playoff spots to get everyone's attention along with their agreement that it's time to take another look at your playoff structure and a bunch of other stuff.

 

I received some great advice from the folks here when our train wreck finally happened a few years back and we set out to find a fix for the following season. We assembled the more coherent posts and distributed them by email to those in our league who had advanced their reading skills beyond the third grade level. As you sort out this mess and look forward, it's something you might wish to consider doing if only to shut up the pathological whiners who, for some odd reason, won't listen to you but will accept without question the collective wisdom of a bunch of total strangers. It works. Go figure.

 

With H2H, just hope you don't have anyone in your league who was recruited by NASA for their math skills. There's a landmine lurking in H2H that, if someone has the brights to find it, can blow up your entire playoff gig. It's kind of abstract, and I get a migraine just thinking about how to explain it. But it's real and it's there. And there's no fix. None. The good news is that it only affects the last two teams vying for that one remaining spot, so nobody else cares. If you spot it, and if you have any hope of ever answering the door again with your wife and kids present, just shut up, flip a coin, announce the winner and pray. If you don't spot it, good. Don't go looking.

 

Landmines aside, H2H can work as a tie-breaker if you take the deadlocked teams and use them to create an imaginary mini-league on paper where you rank them by their won-loss percentage against each other rather than against the league as a whole. The rest of the league no longer matters because you're now focused on H2H performances, right?. Toss out the bottom team, remove that team's games from the equation (its wins and losses, because this is H2H, are no longer a factor), calculate another mini-league with the survivors, remove the newest bottom dweller, stir, rinse and repeat until the number of teams remaining equals the number of playoff spots up for grabs.

 

If you're lucky, those final two teams won't be 1-1 against each other (do you see the landmine now?) and you'll have a clear-cut winner. If you stick with H2H, write your new rules to make points the tie-breaker if you get that dreaded 1-1 thing. Combined points scored against each other should obviously come first. If this also results in a tie, feel free to get hammered on whatever you can find around the house. Once your cooking sherry hangover has passed, award the final slot to the team with the most points on the season. Then change your email address, phone number, last name and your kids' school bus stop. You should now be good to go.

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If you're lucky, those final two teams won't be 1-1 against each other (do you see the landmine now?)

 

No? If the commish here were to apply your H2H methodology (which probably isn't the way that his league has in the past, and therefore problematic, but I digress...) he has Points as a backup tie-breaker should there be a H2H tie. Splitting H2H happens all the time. Hence backup tie-breakers?

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No? If the commish here were to apply your H2H methodology (which probably isn't the way that his league has in the past, and therefore problematic, but I digress...) he has Points as a backup tie-breaker should there be a H2H tie. Splitting H2H happens all the time. Hence backup tie-breakers?

Maybe I missed something, but I think this covers it:

 

If you stick with H2H, write your new rules to make points the tie-breaker if you get that dreaded 1-1 thing.

We discovered the landmine, or whatever, when the commish and I separately computed the H2H in different, but equally valid, ways. In an attempt to sort out the problem, we discovered a case could be made to justify both approaches.Without going all Euclid, we had each solved the same equation by using a different order that gave us different results. Back when we put together our "bullet proof" H2H-based playoff thing, we never anticipated having nearly half the league tied and in contention for just two spots, including multiple teams in the same division that had gone 1-1 against each other. His system put a team I'd initially eliminated into a playoff berth. And my method returned the favor. We even had, depending on your choice of math, a H2H point tie. Or maybe not. Either way, your solution was our day-late, dollar-short fix for the following season. Where, of course, we didn't have a single tie that needed broken.

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