Why income inequality matters

[DankNuggs 305]

it is very important to the democratic philosophy to determine that the causes of our issues are structural, unfixable, and beyond our grasp to make better in any meaningful way in the short term.

 

"Not to detract from the expected thoughtful political discussion but ... I think this is largely a cultural problem and not one we can fix." - MDC

 

 

[RLLD 4,275]

In a global economy where rules are not balances across national lines we cannot expext to sustain our standard of living when competing against economies where laborer exploitation is considered acceptable. There is no middle ground, you either have a sense of entitlement jacking up labor costs in the USA or really nasty oppression leading to exploitation of people globally.

 

Eventually these emerging economies will surpass our own faux economy as we allow ourselves to conduct cannibalism.

[Bert 1,128]

Not to detract from the expected thoughtful political discussion but ... I think this is largely a cultural problem and not one we can fix. Years ago a company would've been ashamed to pay a CEO 350 times more than its average worker or to outsource jobs overseas. Today companies feel no responsibility to their workforce.

 

What do you do about that problem?

I agree to a certain extent. CEO pay is any issue but the bigger issue is years ago there was no choice but to overpay the guy on the assembly line. In our global economy there are now options to paying a guy with a highschool education $50 an hour on an assemlby line.

[MDC 8,011]

"Not to detract from the expected thoughtful political discussion but ... I think this is largely a cultural problem and not one we can fix." - MDC

 

 

Nice, spared yourself the hassle of addressing my point by attacking my motives instead. Well played.

[MDC 8,011]

I agree to a certain extent. CEO pay is any issue but the bigger issue is years ago there was no choice but to overpay the guy on the assembly line. In our global economy there are now options to paying a guy with a highschool education $50 an hour on an assemlby line.

Maybe it was better for America to overpay American workers on the assembly line, rather than underpaying cheap foreign labor for the same job?

[NewbieJr 541]

Seems RP ran away when I asked him about job creation before Obama took over. Hmmm, must be in the Bruno Mars thread.

[DankNuggs 305]

Nice, spared yourself the hassle of addressing my point by attacking my motives instead. Well played.

If we determined things are unfixable at every downturn, we'd have a new system every 11-13 years... Of course there are ways to increase middle class jobs.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Years ago a company would've been ashamed to pay a CEO 350 times more than its average worker or to outsource jobs overseas. Today companies feel no responsibility to their workforce.

 

 

 

Or that his presidency was a good example of the problems you're talking about, where incomes at the top went up while remaining stagnant for everyone else.

 

 

Wait.....what?

 

Years ago companies would never think of outsourcing or paying their CEO so much..........but it all started years ago under Reagan.

 

Pick one side of the fence, Sport.

[DankNuggs 305]

In a global economy where rules are not balances across national lines we cannot expext to sustain our standard of living when competing against economies where laborer exploitation is considered acceptable. There is no middle ground, you either have a sense of entitlement jacking up labor costs in the USA or really nasty oppression leading to exploitation of people globally.

 

Eventually these emerging economies will surpass our own faux economy as we allow ourselves to conduct cannibalism.

You can balance isolationist strategies with the impact they have on growth.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Seems RP ran away when I asked him about job creation before Obama took over. Hmmm, must be in the Bruno Mars thread.

Itsatip I don't fetch info for morons.

 

HTH

[MDC 8,011]

If we determined things are unfixable at every downturn, we'd have a new system every 11-13 years... Of course there are ways to increase middle class jobs.

Well I'd be really happy to hear your ideas for reducing income disparity in the US, have at it.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Jan 6, 2006, 11:46 AM

President Clinton today signed into law a historic bill granting permanent normal trade relations to China.

[Bert 1,128]

Maybe it was better for America to overpay American workers on the assembly line, rather than underpaying cheap foreign labor for the same job?

It was better to overpay Americans but wishing for the good old days to return isn't going to help. The ecomony has changed adapt or get left behind. As RLLD stated the situation pretty well.

[NewbieJr 541]

Itsatip I don't fetch info for morons.

 

HTH

I never imagined you would. Once I made you realize that this job creation problem goes back way before the Obamacare bill, and even back to before (gasp!!) Obama took office.

 

You trolls hate when anyone brings up Bush, so there was no way in hell that you were going to do it yourself.

 

Game. Set. Match.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

[drobeski 3,061]

I never imagined you would. Once I made you realize that this job creation problem goes back way before the Obamacare bill, and even back to before (gasp!!) Obama took office.

 

You trolls hate when anyone brings up Bush, so there was no way in hell that you were going to do it yourself.

 

Game. Set. Match.

all the way back to your hero Clinton as ive pointed out

[MDC 8,011]

It was better to overpay Americans but wishing for the good old days to return isn't going to help. The ecomony has changed adapt or get left behind. As RLLD stated the situation pretty well.

Well now you're just sounding like one of those debby downer democrats that Nuggs was talking about.

 

Seriously, I think once we let the horse out of the stable on this one it was never going to be fixed. I'm not hopeful that companies are going to spontaneously decide its better to overpay for US labor or that assembly workers are going to patent some uniquely efficient way to assemble widgets. So manufacturing is out the window.

 

I really don't have any answers on this one.

[NewbieJr 541]

all the way back to your hero Clinton as ive pointed out

If you don't consider Clinton a great president, then I put you in the same category as Democrats who can't admit that Reagan was. Just a braindead sheep who can't give credit to the "bad guys".

[drobeski 3,061]

If you don't consider Clinton a great president, then I put you in the same category as Democrats who can't admit that Reagan was. Just a braindead sheep who can't give credit to the "bad guys".

was the wto with China a good thing ? do you even know what it is ? it's impact on mfg jobs ?

[TD Ryan2 316]

what if you put a tariff on chinese imports thats puts our manufacturing on an even playing field?

it would be nice, but then China just calls in the note, right? RING!! RING !! Hello! America! We want our trillions - we want them now!

[NewbieJr 541]

was the wto with China a good thing ? do you even know what it is ? it's impact on mfg jobs ?

it has pros and cons. yes.yes

[DankNuggs 305]

it would be nice, but then China just calls in the note, right? RING!! RING !! Hello! America! We want our trillions - we want them now!

I don't think they can do that without massive damage to themselves, it's a mutually assured destruction type of situation. We could just say we default. You get nothing.

[DankNuggs 305]

Well now you're just sounding like one of those debby downer democrats that Nuggs was talking about.

 

Seriously, I think once we let the horse out of the stable on this one it was never going to be fixed. I'm not hopeful that companies are going to spontaneously decide its better to overpay for US labor or that assembly workers are going to patent some uniquely efficient way to assemble widgets. So manufacturing is out the window.

 

I really don't have any answers on this one.

You level the playing field. We are net importers. Countries could pay for the privilege of selling their slave labor goods to our citizens

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

Well thats a good way to try and generate thoughtful discussion in this thread.

You have a point but I was just trying to get out ahead of the same old garbage. Some folks like Dank and RLLD are on board with that

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Dank - you seem to envision protectionist trade policies but hadn't that ship sailed? We are a globalized world now for better or worse. Plus a lot of the protectionist strategies you point to are illegal under international law and our free trade obligations.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

Well thats a good way to try and generate thoughtful discussion in this thread.

It's Worm's way of getting out in front of anyone who dares point out anything Obama has done. See, this way he can claim you are a Fox news lemming.

 

He links to an article talking about how income inequality has gone up during Obama's term, yet he tries to keep any of Obama's policies off the table.

[NewbieJr 541]

It's Worm's way of getting out in front of anyone who dares point out anything Obama has done. See, this way he can claim you are a Fox news lemming.

 

He links to an article talking about how income inequality has gone up during Obama's term, yet he tries to keep any of Obama's policies off the table.

He, like everyone else here, automatically anticipates you jumping in with your "Obama is bad" rhetoric before he starts any thread. He was just attempting to see if he could generate some good discussion with ideas and actual thoughts. And not just Fox News talking points. So he pre-empted you. And rightfully so. You came in and did exactly what he (and everyone else) thought. Because you're a one trick pony. hth

[DankNuggs 305]

Dank - you seem to envision protectionist trade policies but hadn't that ship sailed? We are a globalized world now for better or worse. Plus a lot of the protectionist strategies you point to are illegal under international law and our free trade obligations.

i don't see how any ship has sailed... If we believe in a living wage for a days worth of work, why are we subsidizing the worker exploitation of emerging economies? We want to be global policemen, and global finance bailout'ers lol.... The ship has sailed if we've given up our sovereignty. But for countries like china manipulaitng their currency to exploit us, I don't see why we wouldn't protect our own interests...

[DankNuggs 305]

He, like everyone else here, automatically anticipates you jumping in with your "Obama is bad" rhetoric before he starts any thread. He was just attempting to see if he could generate some good discussion with ideas and actual thoughts. And not just Fox News talking points. So he pre-empted you. And rightfully so. You came in and did exactly what he (and everyone else) thought. Because you're a one trick pony. hth

healthcare hurts job creation, it is a simple fact of life. Is it the entire situation? no, not at all. But it is indicative of alot of other stuff that contributes in a negative way as well...

 

 

Someone smart said that all companies are pass throughs... All the regulation cost, tax cost, healthcare cost, and everything else simply flows through to the end consumer in prices. Those companies that can't do that go out of business and those jobs are lost.

[Phurfur 70]

The problem is effort inequality.

 

Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

― Alexis de Tocqueville

 

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong

3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

 

Reagans First Inaugural: Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

He, like everyone else here, automatically anticipates you jumping in with your "Obama is bad" rhetoric before he starts any thread. He was just attempting to see if he could generate some good discussion with ideas and actual thoughts. And not just Fox News talking points. So he pre-empted you. And rightfully so. You came in and did exactly what he (and everyone else) thought. Because you're a one trick pony. hth

Once again, his link addresses 2009-2012.

 

I addressed the income disparity by pointing out the solution is creating jobs. Then pointed out that during the time period his link deals with Obamacare forced companies to refuse, or postpone, hiring until they know how it will affect them after it is implemented.

 

I have not read anything you posted that actually addressed the issue. I did see where you had your usual knee-jerk reaction: BUSH!

 

One trick pony indeed.

[DankNuggs 305]

The problem is effort inequality.

 

“Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

 

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

2. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong

3. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

4. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

5. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

6. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

7. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

8. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

9. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

10 You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.

alot of these are redundant... and #9 isn't necessarily true... Some debt is good. keeps you from being stagnant.

[Geezil 25]

The government has been buying billions of rounds of ammunition for quite awhile because they have foresight and know there will be mass rioting against wealth. People are pissed. If you post here and you are wealthy I would definitely consider liquid assets and an out.

[NewbieJr 541]

Once again, his link addresses 2009-2012.

 

I addressed the income disparity by pointing out the solution is creating jobs. Then pointed out that during the time period his link deals with Obamacare forced companies to refuse, or postpone, hiring until they know how it will affect them after it is implemented.

 

I have not read anything you posted that actually addressed the issue. I did see where you had your usual knee-jerk reaction: BUSH!

 

One trick pony indeed.

Sorry Buck Tooth. I didn't cry Bush. I simply asked a question that would have led you to have to answer with Bush. And predictably, you then avoided the question and moved the goal posts to a position more comfortable to your agenda.

[SUXBNME 1,611]

$16.00 / hr minimum wage should take care of this problem, right?

[drobeski 3,061]

$16.00 / hr minimum wage should take care of this problem, right?

the promise will win elections, and that's all any of this is about

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I didn't cry Bush. I simply asked a question that would have led you to have to answer with Bush.

[DankNuggs 305]

$16.00 / hr minimum wage should take care of this problem, right?

The devil is in the details, if they cut business expenses and superfluous handouts to offset the cost of it, and put .gov money in peoples hands who will spend it better it would be a boon...

 

 

What is better?

 

$16 in min wage or a guy making $10 an hour who needs $6 and hour worth of .gov foodstamps and programs governed by a massive inefficient bureaucracy?

[Geezil 25]

The devil is in the details, if they cut business expenses and superfluous handouts to offset the cost of it, and put .gov money in peoples hands who will spend it better it would be a boon...

 

 

What is better?

 

$16 in min wage or a guy making $10 an hour who needs $6 and hour worth of .gov foodstamps and programs governed by a massive inefficient bureaucracy?

Ten dollars an hour will kill many small business who are barely hanging on as we speak. Sixteen dollars an hour would be like a nuclear bomb.

[Phurfur 70]

The devil is in the details, if they cut business expenses and superfluous handouts to offset the cost of it, and put .gov money in peoples hands who will spend it better it would be a boon...

 

 

What is better?

 

$16 in min wage or a guy making $10 an hour who needs $6 and hour worth of .gov foodstamps and programs governed by a massive inefficient bureaucracy?

They get the food stamps so they can spend their money on X-Boxes, big screen TVs, designer clothes. Etc. They would not need the food stamps if they spent their money on needs instead of wants. HTH

 

Obesity is a major problem of the American poor. Go figure.