To PPR or Not to PPR?

[Matt Mueller 146]

This is an article by John Paulsen, who if you don't know his stuff, has been one of the top ranked fantasy experts by fantasypros.com over the past couple seasons.

 

Anyway, I think he makes some excellent points and I was curious as to other's thoughts on the topic.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/47757/71/to-ppr-or-not-to-ppr

 

 

Personally, I play in a standard league, 2 .5 PPR leagues and 2 Full PPR dynasty leagues. I almost do feel that the .5 setup lends to the most fair scoring but full PPR seems to be taking over more and more.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

Just a couple of thoughts on the topic. Last year Alf Morris ran for 1,275 yards and 7 tds. He added 9 catches for 78 yards. Finished as PPR RB #21 with $183 points.

 

Danny Woodhead ran for 469-2 and added 76-605-6. He finished as PPR RB #12 with 225 points points.

 

In total yardage 1,353-7 for ALf vs 1,074-8 for Woody.

 

Wasn't ALF more valuable to his team last year? More yards same about the same number of tds? I'd argue yes but he scored less. Is that the ideal setup?

 

 

Then you look at Julian Edelman type guys. Is 8 catches for 100 yards, 18 points, really more valuable than someone who caught caught 4 passes for 60 yards but scored a td, 16 points, ?

 

I might argue yes there too...anyway I thought it was good article.

 

Really curious to others thoughts on the topic.

 

 

Do you guys have any experience with .5 PPR leagues? Is there a scoring system you like best-think is fairest?

[rholio 339]

Most of my leagues have switched to 0.5 PPR, some from full PPR and some from Standard. It is easily my favorite and seems to work well at balancing things out.

[weepaws 2,456]

I like the standard one point PPR more then the half . Because it makes the point value to the RB and WR and a few TE position players much closer to the QB point value .

[weepaws 2,456]

And no don't thank that Morris was more valuable to the Redskins then Woodhead was to the Chargers. Because the game has changed so much from the time I started playing FF back in 1988 . I thank their value to there teams is based on the teams needs from that player .

[Stewburtx8 67]

No, I do not necessarily believe Alf Morris was more valuable than Danny Woodhead.

 

Just looking at total yards fails to take in to consideration touches. Alfred Morris had 285 touches. Danny Woodhead had only 183 touches. So Alf Morris produced 4.75 yards per touch. Woodhead produced 5.87 yards per touch.

 

If the Chargers got an additional 280 total yards on an extra 102 touches, then the way they used Woodhead was probably more beneficial overall to their offense than the way the Redskins used Morris.

 

Grind it out backs can be valuable to close out games or grind out first downs, but overall the NFL has gone the way of the more versatile, pass catching backs. They are the guys who have essentially replaced a portion of the running game for many teams. They are also much more difficult to defend for defenses.

[Matt Mueller 146]

^ That's a great point.

 

If we are gonna just by 'yards per touch' a WR will always be more valuable than a running back though in that sense. They are always going to have a higher per touch average.

 

 

I guess for me it comes down to what's a fairer estimation of value:

 

Woody vs Morris PPR

 

225 vs 183-

 

or

 

Woody vs Morris .5 PPR

 

187- 178.5

[WhiteWonder 2,171]

All of my ppr leagues are full ppr and I've been running my leagues as ppr sonce before it was the more popular format.

 

It brings receivers and tight ends more in line with stud rbs and allows for decisions to be made on draft day where it's now feasible to take a WR in the mid first round.

 

Now part of that has also been the changing nfl landscape but 10 years ago, rbs ruled.

 

What I hate is 1.5 ppr for tight ends and the abuse I saw of this format when graham and gronK broke out. People loved running leagues like this th inking they would grab one of those tight ends early before people caught on. It's just not needed anymore when so many tight ends act as receivers

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

^ That's a great point.

 

If we are gonna just by 'yards per touch' a WR will always be more valuable than a running back though in that sense. They are always going to have a higher per touch average.

 

 

I guess for me it comes down to what's a fairer estimation of value:

 

Woody vs Morris PPR

 

225 vs 183-

 

or

 

Woody vs Morris .5 PPR

 

187- 178.5

Well considering how devalued the rb position is, i would say that wrs are more valuable. They are also two different positions so comparing yards per touch is apples to oranges.

[BufordT 371]

.5 PPR in 3 of my 4 leagues. The other is non-ppr. I think .5 is the way to go these days. Was never a fan of 1ppr leagues. For one thing, it sometimes makes these forums confusing. At least .5 ppr makes these forums half as confusing.

[OrangeSoda 2]

I agree on the Touches point Matt Mueller Brings up ... however one wrinkle to throw in here is what if that touch goes for negative yardage. Example: Players like Quizz Rodgers who might only have 2 catches a game both for negative yardage. Is it fair that he still be awarded 2 pts for negative production?

 

That is the only hiccup with the argument...

 

I remember losing a playoff matchup one year because James Stewart caught 2 balls for negative 11 yards, that 2 pts put my opponent over the top and i lost by 1.1 pts.... to this day i still hate James Stewart! Uggggh

[tanatastic 2,061]

I agree on the Touches point Matt Mueller Brings up ... however one wrinkle to throw in here is what if that touch goes for negative yardage. Example: Players like Quizz Rodgers who might only have 2 catches a game both for negative yardage. Is it fair that he still be awarded 2 pts for negative production?

 

That is the only hiccup with the argument...

 

I remember losing a playoff matchup one year because James Stewart caught 2 balls for negative 11 yards, that 2 pts put my opponent over the top and i lost by 1.1 pts.... to this day i still hate James Stewart! Uggggh

Lol thats a great story. Reminds me of the INFAMOUS Travis Henry fumblegate where he posted a line of 2 carries, 2 fumbles or something like that and cost owners who were ahead by a few pnts the game. Anyone remember that?

[cnasty 5]

I'll play in whatever format you want to throw at me, but the league that I run is a .5er. There's definitely a balance with the .5. Having said that, I think saying one is "better" than the other is kind of a misnomer.

 

Each type requires a different strategy in its approach and each has its pros & cons. While I prefer a .5 league, I'll find a way to beat you at whatever you want to throw at me.

[rholio 339]

Lol thats a great story. Reminds me of the INFAMOUS Travis Henry fumblegate where he posted a line of 2 carries, 2 fumbles or something like that and cost owners who were ahead by a few pnts the game. Anyone remember that?

 

Yep. My favorite was the Vikings QB Brad Johnson throwing a TD pass... to himself.

[Bishop82 61]

Non PPR leagues are for wimmen and newbies.

[Stewburtx8 67]

^ That's a great point.

 

If we are gonna just by 'yards per touch' a WR will always be more valuable than a running back though in that sense. They are always going to have a higher per touch average.

 

 

I guess for me it comes down to what's a fairer estimation of value:

 

Woody vs Morris PPR

 

225 vs 183-

 

or

 

Woody vs Morris .5 PPR

 

187- 178.5

 

 

I was just trying to give a counterargument to the point that Morris was more valuable than Woodhead.

 

While all my season long leagues are 1 PPR, I don't have a problem with 0.5 PPR. In today's NFL, I think it still makes WR's very valuable. I play a ton on Fanduel and they use the 0.5 PPR scoring. But then I site like Draftkings uses full PPR. I like both. Can't stand non-PPR.

[Stewburtx8 67]

I agree on the Touches point Matt Mueller Brings up ... however one wrinkle to throw in here is what if that touch goes for negative yardage. Example: Players like Quizz Rodgers who might only have 2 catches a game both for negative yardage. Is it fair that he still be awarded 2 pts for negative production?

 

That is the only hiccup with the argument...

 

I remember losing a playoff matchup one year because James Stewart caught 2 balls for negative 11 yards, that 2 pts put my opponent over the top and i lost by 1.1 pts.... to this day i still hate James Stewart! Uggggh

 

 

This is true. Sometimes you get a point for a useless reception that goes for negative yards. I hear that argument a lot. But then other times, maybe that -1 yard catch on a checkdown bailed his QB out from taking a 10 yard loss on a sack. So I wouldn't make the blanket statement that a negative yardage catch isn't "worth" anything.

[plasma george 52]

Fock touches, 3 screen catches for 0 yards = 3pts ?

That's BS FANTASY at it's best.....and has nothing to do with production on the field.

How do you measure production ?....YARDS.

This is so simple, yards moves the team up and down the field, puts them in position to score, not touching the ball.

Another great example is Gore vs the TD vulture du jour.

Gore had the Sunday that moved the chains, controlled the clock, and won the game for the 49ers....not some vulture or dink and dunker.

 

If he gets yards, he gets points........1pt/ 10 yards.

[AnaheimRams 28]

Sorry... but PPR is a cop out... "We need to make WR's and TE's more valuable! RB's get too many points! It's not fair!"

 

Hate it. Won't play it.

 

!0 yard run - 1 point.

2 yard loss on a screen pass - 1 point?

 

Seems legit.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I play in both and wouldnt change one to the other. Play in both, expand your horizons, make each league as fun and unique as you can, dont be a douche. Rules we can all live by

[AnaheimRams 28]

dont be a douche. Rules we can all live by

That is a pretty good rule.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

That is a pretty good rule.

[Boilermaker04 11]

Another way to play the same game. Just as valid as 2qb, no free agents, long play bonus.....

[Quickolas1 80]

0.5 PPR is very fair middle ground. No PPR is old and tired.

 

I do think 1.5 PPR for TE really adds fairness to RB/WR/TE equality but no issues w/people who hate it.

 

The argument for PPFD (First down) is an interesting one, but has similar issues of "fairness" imo.

[the spanker 28]

Like the poster who said I'll play in anything and make the proper adjustments to win.

 

I hate people who say PPR is nonsense because of the the way the scoring shakes out.

 

So what? Everyone's playing under the same rules.

 

Be creative and find a way to win in every type of scoring format instead of being a snot-nosed whiner.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Part of the reason I posted this as well is that I'm considering commishing a new dynasty startup.

 

I do want to consider .5 PPR both b/c I kinda like the format and for the unique factor that it might add a bit of a different spin to the league...considering most dynasty leagues and the two I play in are full PPR.

 

Is that a bad idea? Would anyone not consider a league or a dynasty startup that is .5 PPR?

 

Let me hear it b/c I want to know if it's a bad idea or if anyone really wouldn't like it for some reason.

 

 

P.S. I have a short list of possible names for the league but if you are interested send me a private message here. I will use my discretion as to how I decide to setup up the league but any active and interested owners will be considered.

[ralphster 274]

.5 ppr is fine - perfect balance between all players imo.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Not a fan of ppr or 2qb or long play bonuses but I'll happily play with them If need be. I am a fan of stat benchmark bonuses like 20 Carrys or 7 rec. it adds an incredible drama of counting the plays and when ur guy is just 1 away from a 5pnt bonus it's very exciting. Been using them in my big league for a decade and I miss it when I play other leagues without them.