Bernie-mania running wild as Hillary Clinton sputters

[KSB2424 3,174]

Why is my labor taxed at a higher rate than a capital gain? It would be one thing if the capital gains were actually at risk, but as we found out, the risk was only for the little guy and the tax payer.

 

I'm willing to bet you paid less than 15% on your Federal and State Tax return (including any Capital Gains). After you took all your deductions and credits.

 

The ONLY reason a middle class person's "effective tax rate" would be more than a rich guys has to do with Payroll taxes that are capped or flat. Like social security and medicare/medicaid. If you want to uncap those a bit, I'm on board, but thats a different conversation.

[Mungwater 601]

Why is my labor taxed at a higher rate than a capital gain? It would be one thing if the capital gains were actually at risk, but as we found out, the risk was only for the little guy and the tax payer.

Capital gains assumes the risk, you have to incentivize the people to invest.

[edjr 6,898]

Because your labor isn't worth jackshit to the millionaire investors who have bought and paid to have laws and tax codes written to favor them by lawmakers who by and large are also millionaire investors (at least in the Senate).

 

America may be the greatest country in the world, but it's greater and beterer for the rich

[KSB2424 3,174]

 

it's time for a change, time to try something new.

 

I understand this, I really do. A Hillary versus a Jeb will be ho-hum for a lot of folks.

 

With that said, it has to be the right kind of change. Not just change, for changes sake.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Capital gains assumes the risk, you have to incentivize the people to invest.

Right, I assume the risk. The game that's played by the big boys obviously didn't entail any risk. Get it?

[edjr 6,898]

 

I understand this, I really do. A Hillary versus a Jeb will be ho-hum for a lot of folks.

 

With that said, it has to be the right kind of change. Not just change, for changes sake.

 

Agree 100%

[hoytdwow 202]

you have to incentivize the people to invest.

By this do you mean the companies incentivize investors by lobbying Congress to have tax rules written to favor them?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

I'm willing to bet you paid less than 15% on your Federal and State Tax return (including any Capital Gains). After you took all your deductions and credits.

 

The ONLY reason a middle class person's "effective tax rate" would be more than a rich guys has to do with Payroll taxes that are capped or flat. Like social security and medicare/medicaid. If you want to uncap those a bit, I'm on board, but thats a different conversation.

I probably pay about 17% Fed after all is said and done. But if it's a capital gain, you only pay when you take the money out, which could take years, and it's at a lower rate. I have to pay immediately, every year.

[parrot 789]

 

I'm willing to bet you paid less than 15% on your Federal and State Tax return (including any Capital Gains). After you took all your deductions and credits.

 

The ONLY reason a middle class person's "effective tax rate" would be more than a rich guys has to do with Payroll taxes that are capped or flat. Like social security and medicare/medicaid. If you want to uncap those a bit, I'm on board, but thats a different conversation.

 

This isn't necessarily true, especially as you go way up the income ladder where capital gains and/or carried interest become a bigger and bigger share of people's income. Capital gains are highly concentrated in the upper income ranges.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Right, I assume the risk. The game that's played by the big boys obviously didn't entail any risk. Get it?

 

Well that isn't speaking about the capital gain rate then. That is a conversation about common sense regulation on the banking industry and Wall Street where they are "cheating" the system.

 

You won't find many people in disagreement.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Because your labor isn't worth jackshit to the millionaire investors who have bought and paid to have laws and tax codes written to favor them by lawmakers who by and large are also millionaire investors (at least in the Senate).

Bingo, bullseye, right on the mark

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

Well that isn't speaking about the capital gain rate then. That is a conversation about common sense regulation on the banking industry and Wall Street where they are "cheating" the system.

 

You won't find many people in disagreement.

I find damn near every republican and a lot of democrats in congress in disagreement, or it would have happened by now.

[Mungwater 601]

I probably pay about 17% Fed after all is said and done. But if it's a capital gain, you only pay when you take the money out, which could take years, and it's at a lower rate. I have to pay immediately, every year.

In mutual funds you pay on the gains every year

[KSB2424 3,174]

I find damn near every republican and a lot of democrats in congress in disagreement, or it would have happened by now.

 

Sarbanes-Oxly

 

Dodd-Frank

 

Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act (2009)

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

In mutual funds you pay on the gains every year

Hey, if you want to counter every point I make with a small example to buttress your point go right ahead. But here is the overall point. The game is rigged in favor of the financial industry, and they make sure it happens by spending a lot of money on our politicians to make sure it benefits them, first and foremost. They may throw a few crumbs our way to make us feel like we're getting a benefit too, but it's just crumbs. Do you think they would continue to spend money on our politicians if it weren't benefitting them? They spend it because it's a guaranteed return on investment.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

Sarbanes-Oxly

 

Dodd-Frank

 

Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act (2009)

Toothless. All of them. The guts of those bills were ripped out before they ever got out of committee. They sound good though.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Capital gains assumes the risk, you have to incentivize the people to invest.

 

Bingo

[Sho Nuff 720]

Right, I assume the risk. The game that's played by the big boys obviously didn't entail any risk. Get it?

 

Really...you tihnk those big boys have not lost millions based on those risks?

You think those big boys have not gone bankrupt and lost everything before?

 

Hah

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

Really...you tihnk those big boys have not lost millions based on those risks?

You think those big boys have not gone bankrupt and lost everything before?

 

Hah

Not last go round. You want to go back in history fine, but I'll live in the here and now. I don't recall anyone jumping out of windows during the last crash. And they won't be next time, they will be fine. Your 401k? Probably not. Hah.

[Thornton Melon 648]

I'd vote for Bernie from Weekend at Bernie's before I voted for this guy.

[edjr 6,898]

I'd vote for Bernie from Weekend at Bernie's before I voted for this guy.

 

[DankNuggs 305]

Taxing the rich at the same rate as the rest of us is considered far left wing now? Not wanting college to cost as much as a house is far left wing? Tax credits for working families for child care, making sure social security is protected is far left wing? Talk about moving the goal posts.

the rich are taxed more than the poor. College costs are soaring because college loans are easier to get than a value meal at mcdonalds.

[DankNuggs 305]

Hey, if you want to counter every point I make with a small example to buttress your point go right ahead. But here is the overall point. The game is rigged in favor of the financial industry, and they make sure it happens by spending a lot of money on our politicians to make sure it benefits them, first and foremost. They may throw a few crumbs our way to make us feel like we're getting a benefit too, but it's just crumbs. Do you think they would continue to spend money on our politicians if it weren't benefitting them? They spend it because it's a guaranteed return on investment.

replace 'financial industry' with the liberal elite bureaucrats...

 

You guys rail on wall street, then whine when your retirement accounts suffer.... Can't have it both ways.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

replace 'financial industry' with the liberal elite bureaucrats...

 

You guys rail on wall street, then whine when your retirement accounts suffer.... Can't have it both ways.

Our retirement accounts suffer because of the shenanigans and theft that Wall Street and the banks ltake part in. Ever here of Wall Street buying stocks right ahead of institutional buyers like pension funds and mutual funds because they have insider info that pushes the cost up? Ever hear of hi frequency trading? Front runner trading. Look it up.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

the rich are taxed more than the poor. College costs are soaring because college loans are easier to get than a value meal at mcdonalds.

And who's giving out those loans?

[hoytdwow 202]

replace 'financial industry' with the liberal elite bureaucrats...

 

...hordes of whom are in the financial industry

[DankNuggs 305]

And who's giving out those loans?

ultimately its backed by .gov

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

ultimately its backed by .gov

And someone takes a cut in between

[DankNuggs 305]

And someone takes a cut in between

You think banks should loan money for free?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

You think banks should loan money for free?

Do you think college loans should be easier to get than a McDonald's happy meal?

[DankNuggs 305]

Do you think college loans should be easier to get than a McDonald's happy meal?

I'd hope people who need loans to get an education can get them. But the landscape we are in right now is that people see college as a 4 year vacation paid for by someone else. I can see both sides of the argument. What is strange to me is people railing for more education money while screaming at the rising cost of tuition. They are directly related

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I'd hope people who need loans to get an education can get them. But the landscape we are in right now is that people see college as a 4 year vacation paid for by someone else. I can see both sides of the argument. What is strange to me is people railing for more education money while screaming at the rising cost of tuition. They are directly related

I would say the rise in education costs is directly related to the easy cash made available through the loans. Not much difference than the housing bubble. Both created by the banks and Wall Street. I think most people see a college education as a necessity in our current system, regardless of how many keggers they go to. Partying at college isn't a new phenomena.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Taxing the rich at the same rate as the rest of us is considered far left wing now? Not wanting college to cost as much as a house is far left wing? Tax credits for working families for child care, making sure social security is protected is far left wing? Talk about moving the goal posts.

KSB is a textbook right winger despite his a attempts to appear otherwise, so keep that in mind

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

I'm willing to bet you paid less than 15% on your Federal and State Tax return (including any Capital Gains). After you took all your deductions and credits.

 

The ONLY reason a middle class person's "effective tax rate" would be more than a rich guys has to do with Payroll taxes that are capped or flat. Like social security and medicare/medicaid. If you want to uncap those a bit, I'm on board, but thats a different conversation.

Not true at all. The rich get their money primarily or even exclusively through investments, which are taxed at a far lower rate than most income. So you're just wrong, HTH

[KSB2424 3,174]

 

Not true at all. The rich get their money primarily or even exclusively through investments, which are taxed at a far lower rate than most income. So you're just wrong, HTH

 

Income tax brackets are A. done on a progressive scale so if you are in the 25% tax bracket you don't pay 25% its more like 16% and B. That is BEFORE any of these thousands of deductions and credits people use.

 

 

Federal taxes on middle-income Americans are near historic lows,[1] according to the latest available data. That's true both for federal income taxes and total federal taxes.[2]

• Income taxes: A family of four in the exact middle of the income spectrum filing its taxes for 2013 this filing season paid only 5.3 percent of its 2013 income in federal income taxes, according to estimates from the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC).[3] Average income tax rates for these typical families have been lower during the Bush and Obama Administrations than at any time since the 1950s. (See Figure 1.) As discussed below, 2009 and 2010 were particularly low because of the temporary Making Work Pay Tax Credit.
• Overall federal taxes: Overall federal taxes -- which include income, payroll, and excise taxes, and imputed corporate taxes -- on middle-income households in 2009 were at their lowest levels in decades, according to the latest data from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

 

[KSB2424 3,174]

Capital Gains tax rates are similar to a company setting a price point for their product. You want to charge the most you can, withoutt running the customer off to a competitor. As in the tax rate needs to be high, but you don't want it so high that it doesn't spur investing.

 

Maybe that "point" is up to 18% to 23% or 20% to 25% instead of 15% to 20% (where it is now). I think most reasonable people can try to agree there.

 

But can we stop with all the rhetoric? The middle class hasn't paid this less in income taxes in half a Century. We pay more in payroll taxes for SS and Medicare than we do in income taxes once you count all these dedcutions and credits. The middle class gets killed on sales taxes, sin taxes and payroll taxes.

[MDC 7,894]

I'd hope people who need loans to get an education can get them. But the landscape we are in right now is that people see college as a 4 year vacation paid for by someone else. I can see both sides of the argument. What is strange to me is people railing for more education money while screaming at the rising cost of tuition. They are directly related

I can tell you that I didn't take college seriously at all way back in the 90s.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Capital Gains tax rates are similar to a company setting a price point for their product. You want to charge the most you can, withoutt running the customer off to a competitor. As in the tax rate needs to be high, but you don't want it so high that it doesn't spur investing.

 

Maybe that "point" is up to 18% to 23% or 20% to 25% instead of 15% to 20% (where it is now). I think most reasonable people can try to agree there.

 

But can we stop with all the rhetoric? The middle class hasn't paid this less in income taxes in half a Century. We pay more in payroll taxes for SS and Medicare than we do in income taxes once you count all these dedcutions and credits. The middle class gets killed on sales taxes, sin taxes and payroll taxes.

The middle class wages haven't increased in a long time, so why would the pay more? And no, the middle class does not pay more in SS and Medicare. SS is 6.2 and Medicare is 1.45. I pay a lot more than 8% fed tax even after deductions.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

 

Income tax brackets are A. done on a progressive scale so if you are in the 25% tax bracket you don't pay 25% its more like 16% and B. That is BEFORE any of these thousands of deductions and credits people use.

 

 

I paid a higher effective rate than mitt Romney. Guess I must be super-rich!

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I paid a higher effective rate than mitt Romney. Guess I must be super-rich!

That's because you make your money off of work. That's second class money.