Bernie-mania running wild as Hillary Clinton sputters

[IGotWorms 4,063]

That's because you make your money off of work. That's second class money.

According to KSB I am wildly successful. Perhaps even moreso than a man who was born into wealth. I guess I'll take it

[MDC 7,894]

That's because you make your money off of work. That's second class money.

You sound like Phurfur.

[Baker Boy 1,710]

Video: Young Americans Shocked to Learn of Hillary’s Multiple Mansions

http://patriotrising.com/2015/06/30/video-young-americans-shocked-to-learn-of-hillarys-multiple-mansions/

 

 

 

Young Americans being quizzed on the homes of 2016 Presidential candidates were in for a shock this week after learning of the multiple mansions owned by Hillary Clinton.

 

In a game dubbed “Candidate’s Cribs,” Campus Reform Correspondent Cabot Phillips asked participants to match four pictures of multi-million dollar homes to their candidate owners.

 

Unaware that the mansions had actually been owned by Clinton, each participant attempted to link other candidates such as Donald Trump, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio to the extravagant properties.

 

After several rounds of the game, Phillips says the participants were shocked to learn that Clinton had lived in all four homes, which hold a total value of more than $31 million.

 

“What, really? You’re pulling my leg,” one man said in response.

 

Nearly every respondent reacted similarly, with some even stating that the revelation had altered their opinions on the upcoming Presidential race

[wiffleball 4,797]

call me when bernie can actually work a f****** comb.

[Baker Boy 1,710]

I paid a higher effective rate than mitt Romney. Guess I must be super-rich!

Actually Mitt donates Millions of dollars which are tax deductable and lowers his tax rate. The bottom feeders don't understand this concept.

[Baker Boy 1,710]

The rich pay a much lower percentage of their income to taxes than the rest of us. It's called capital gains, and it's a flat 15%. Why don't I get that rate, or you? Because we didn't write the tax laws, the rich do, that's why. And let's not forget carried interest.

Actually it is 20% for most of us.

[Baker Boy 1,710]

Taxing the rich at the same rate as the rest of us is considered far left wing now? Not wanting college to cost as much as a house is far left wing? Tax credits for working families for child care, making sure social security is protected is far left wing? Talk about moving the goal posts.

The top 10% of wage earners pay 68% of the Federal Income tax, the bottom 47% pay nothing. Many get more back, up to $5000, than they put in. You are nothing but a big blow hard!

[DankNuggs 305]

Everyone is the hero of their own story

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

The top 10% of wage earners pay 68% of the Federal Income tax, the bottom 47% pay nothing. Many get more back, up to $5000, than they put in. You are nothing but a big blow hard!

Hmmm. So, the top 10% and the top .05 pct are in the same stratosphere? How much does it take to get in the top 10% vs the amount to get in the top .05%. Get back to me with those numbers. But you know what, I'll explain it to you:

 

3 guys riding in a car

One makes 75k, another makes 100k, and the last makes 125k

Average salary of the people in that car? - 100k

Bill gates gets in the car. What's the average salary of the car now? Let's say Gates makes a billion. Average salary- 999 million and change.

Get it now simpleton?

[KSB2424 3,174]

According to KSB I am wildly successful. Perhaps even moreso than a man who was born into wealth. I guess I'll take it

It's not according to me. It's according to statistics from the IRS, Tax Policy Center, etc.

 

We can use theses statistics on taxes and have a discussion or we can post wild rhetoric stories then end it with :wavestowel:

 

I don't make this up, the rich pays a higher percentage than the rest. It's all in black and white. And frankly I'm okay with that.

 

Does a low capital gains, which has since been raised since 2011, flatten the progressiveness of the tax system? Yes. Is it still progressive though? You betcha

[Sho Nuff 720]

It's not according to me. It's according to statistics from the IRS, Tax Policy Center, etc.

 

We can use theses statistics on taxes and have a discussion or we can post wild rhetoric stories then end it with :wavestowel:

 

I don't make this up, the rich pays a higher percentage than the rest. It's all in black and white. And frankly I'm okay with that.

 

Does a low capital gains, which has since been raised since 2011, flatten the progressiveness of the tax system? Yes. Is it still progressive though? You betcha

Exactly.. And this is where I do side with reasonable conservatives.

 

And then think most here do agree the tax system is too complicated and needs streamlining.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,605]

I like Rand and am on board with a lot of his ideas, but I just can't stomach this whole "the free market is the answer to every problem." Or that markets should be largely free of any regulation or taxes or any other "interference" from the government. As just one example, coal and oil companies and their lobbyists writing environmental policy and rules is asinine.

 

That's what I like about Bernie, is he knows that's bullshit. He's far too liberal for me in general, but he is absolutely right about needing to limit corporate influence on our political and legislative lives. And he's the only one who has the ballz to say so and who would do something about it.

 

The strict constructionist and overly theoretical view of the Constitution Paul has is also invalid at this point in history IMO.

Free speech and it's detractors approve of this message. Why don't we tackle term limits and then move on to theoretical views about the what's set in the constitution?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,605]

Hmmm. So, the top 10% and the top .05 pct are in the same stratosphere? How much does it take to get in the top 10% vs the amount to get in the top .05%. Get back to me with those numbers. But you know what, I'll explain it to you:

 

3 guys riding in a car

One makes 75k, another makes 100k, and the last makes 125k

Average salary of the people in that car? - 100k

Bill gates gets in the car. What's the average salary of the car now? Let's say Gates makes a billion. Average salary- 999 million and change.

Get it now simpleton?

I'm guessing none in the car besides Gates has their own business that employs millions world wide and has far more responsibility than those in every capacity than they do. The guy who owns a tire shop making 125 K in Jersey ,who should be in the trunk of that car, has no business being in that car. Microsoft helps run the world. Jersey tire guy gets fat ass Diego's across a bridge he agreed to pay tolls to.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

It's not according to me. It's according to statistics from the IRS, Tax Policy Center, etc.

 

We can use theses statistics on taxes and have a discussion or we can post wild rhetoric stories then end it with :wavestowel:

 

I don't make this up, the rich pays a higher percentage than the rest. It's all in black and white. And frankly I'm okay with that.

 

Does a low capital gains, which has since been raised since 2011, flatten the progressiveness of the tax system? Yes. Is it still progressive though? You betcha

"You betcha"? Now you sound like Sarah Palin

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

I'm guessing none in the car besides Gates has their own business that employs millions world wide and has far more responsibility than those in every capacity than they do. The guy who owns a tire shop making 125 K in Jersey ,who should be in the trunk of that car, has no business being in that car. Microsoft helps run the world. Jersey tire guy gets fat ass Diego's across a bridge he agreed to pay tolls to.

It has nothing to do with who does what. It's to show how averages and percentages can be misleading.

[Chronic Husker 86]

"You betcha"? Now you sound like Sarah Palin

How is your hopey changey workin for ya?

[nobody 2,889]

3 guys riding in a car

One makes 75k, another makes 100k, and the last makes 125k

Average salary of the people in that car? - 100k

Bill gates gets in the car. What's the average salary of the car now? Let's say Gates makes a billion. Average salary- 999 million and change.

Get it now simpleton?

Wish I was in a car where 1 billion and change averaged over 4 guys was still almost a billion.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Wish I was in a car where 1 billiond and change averaged over 4 guys was still almost a billion.

Sorry. 249 million. I was in a hurry. Meant to say 4 billion

[BunnysBastatrds 2,605]

It has nothing to do with who does what. It's to show how averages and percentages can be misleading.

It does. Does the guy making 125k contribute any where near what Gates does? One sells tires for a living while one globalizes business infrastructure that makes it easier for all of us to live and work. Tire guy is noble in his profession. Can't argue that. Gates guy has made it all work profoundly better. Tire guy gets to jerk off to porn after work while his tramp wife orders stretch pants on QVC and their kids spend hours attached to the same kind of screen you are starring at now.

 

See how that works?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

It does. Does the guy making 125k contribute any where near what Gates does? One sells tires for a living while one globalizes business infrastructure that makes it easier for all of us to live and work. Tire guy is noble in his profession. Can't argue that. Gates guy has made it all work profoundly better. Tire guy gets to jerk off to porn after work while his tramp wife orders stretch pants on QVC and their kids spend hours attached to the same kind of screen you are starring at now.

 

See how that works?

No. And neither do you.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,605]

No. And neither do you.

And I can live with that. There are a handful of those who have changed the world. For the better or worse. I'm along for the ride. And I appreciate that. If I was the driver, I'd expect the fare.

[hoytdwow 202]

Free speech and it's detractors approve of this message. Why don't we tackle term limits and then move on to theoretical views about the what's set in the constitution?

Absolutely. Term limits are sorely needed. Rand Paul supports them. Not sure if Sanders does.

[edjr 6,898]

How is your hopey changey workin for ya?

 

Miserably. He never should have won the 2nd election.

 

He was going against McCain/Palin in 2008, you really wanted them? even knowing what we know now.

[Baker Boy 1,710]

Hmmm. So, the top 10% and the top .05 pct are in the same stratosphere? How much does it take to get in the top 10% vs the amount to get in the top .05%. Get back to me with those numbers. But you know what, I'll explain it to you:

3 guys riding in a car

One makes 75k, another makes 100k, and the last makes 125k

Average salary of the people in that car? - 100k

Bill gates gets in the car. What's the average salary of the car now? Let's say Gates makes a billion. Average salary- 999 million and change.

Get it now simpleton?

The top 1% of wage earners pay 30% of the federal income taxes. The bottom 47% pay nothing with many getting more, up to $5000, than they put in.

 

What is sad is that a White guy living in White America where White privilege is the rule of the land can't get ahead. White people don't even have to try to be successful, it is handed to them with minimal effort. Maybe if you didn't spend your life posting on an Internet Message Board all day and put forth a little effort you could be successful too. Don't villianize the successful blame yourself for being such a loser.

[parrot 789]

Actually it is 20% for most of us.

 

Are you actually suggesting you pay 20% on capital gains?

[KSB2424 3,174]

The top 1% of wage earners pay 30% of the federal income taxes. The bottom 47% pay nothing with many getting more, up to $5000, than they put in.

 

What is sad is that a White guy living in White America where White privilege is the rule of the land can't get ahead. White people don't even have to try to be successful, it is handed to them with minimal effort. Maybe if you didn't spend your life posting on an Internet Message Board all day and put forth a little effort you could be successful too. Don't villianize the successful blame yourself for being such a loser.

 

I don't even understand the last paragraph. If I was you I would've stopped at the first sentence. Those are the facts, the rest was balony.

[edjr 6,898]

 

I don't even understand the last paragraph. If I was you I would've stopped at the first sentence. Those are the facts, the rest was balony.

 

Old men tend to start out well and then ramble until you want to kill yourself

[KSB2424 3,174]

Not sure how the Bernie thread got to only talking about capital gains taxes, but anyway Baker Boy's post above is the reason, reasonable minds can't come together.

 

Republicans think investment spurs growth

Democrats want more income equality and more progressive taxation.

 

Capital Gains taxes are historically low, the reason was that as th economy started tanking years ago we needed investment, so it made sense to lower them to entice investment. Even as a guy that leans right, it makes sense to raise the Capital Gains Tax up closer to the historical mean now, in 2015. From 15-20% to 20-25%. It makes sense and even those rates are below where they used to be in certain times. I don't think a 5% hike would keep investors out of the market place.

 

Now a guy like Bernie Sanders? He'd want Capital Gains to be 50% or some stupid number.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Not sure how the Bernie thread got to only talking about capital gains taxes, but anyway Baker Boy's post above is the reason, reasonable minds can't come together.

 

Republicans think investment spurs growth

Democrats want more income equality and more progressive taxation.

 

Capital Gains taxes are historically low, the reason was that as th economy started tanking years ago we needed investment, so it made sense to lower them to entice investment. Even as a guy that leans right, it makes sense to raise the Capital Gains Tax up closer to the historical mean now, in 2015. From 15-20% to 20-25%. It makes sense and even those rates are below where they used to be in certain times. I don't think a 5% hike would keep investors out of the market place.

 

Now a guy like Bernie Sanders? He'd want Capital Gains to be 50% or some stupid number.

I doubt that he would want that, but if he did then I can't support him. There's certainly a risk of making things so punitive on investors that they take their money and go elsewhere. I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet as they have it absolutely focking made in this country these days, so imo there's quite a bit of wiggle room to work in. I think Sanders intends to stay within that wiggle room

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

I don't even understand the last paragraph. If I was you I would've stopped at the first sentence. Those are the facts, the rest was balony.

 

That is what happens when phurfur doesn't cut and paste/plagiarize from someone else and tries actually writing something.

It typically does not make any sense.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Some pretty good analysis here saying Bernie has no chance with moderate democrats and minorities: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/upshot/why-bernie-sanderss-momentum-is-not-built-to-last.html

[DankNuggs 305]

I doubt that he would want that, but if he did then I can't support him. There's certainly a risk of making things so punitive on investors that they take their money and go elsewhere. I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet as they have it absolutely focking made in this country these days, so imo there's quite a bit of wiggle room to work in. I think Sanders intends to stay within that wiggle room

Bernie said no one should make more than a million $.. guy is nuts and just capitalizing on the irrationality of left wingers who have come to the conclusion that their economic ideas are DOA and want to double down

[parrot 789]

Not sure how the Bernie thread got to only talking about capital gains taxes, but anyway Baker Boy's post above is the reason, reasonable minds can't come together.

 

Republicans think investment spurs growth

Democrats want more income equality and more progressive taxation.

 

Capital Gains taxes are historically low, the reason was that as th economy started tanking years ago we needed investment, so it made sense to lower them to entice investment. Even as a guy that leans right, it makes sense to raise the Capital Gains Tax up closer to the historical mean now, in 2015. From 15-20% to 20-25%. It makes sense and even those rates are below where they used to be in certain times. I don't think a 5% hike would keep investors out of the market place.

 

Now a guy like Bernie Sanders? He'd want Capital Gains to be 50% or some stupid number.

 

 

Good post KSB. But why not just tax it as income? Do we really think people need more incentive to invest their money than to invest their labor? And do away with carried interest while we're at it. Maybe have a one-time lifetime exemption for people who end up selling the business they spend their life building. Bottom line, people who handle their money well are going to keep it working for them even if they have to pay marginally more in taxes.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Bernie said no one should make more than a million $.. guy is nuts and just capitalizing on the irrationality of left wingers who have come to the conclusion that their economic ideas are DOA and want to double down

Ridiculous hysteria you don't even believe.

 

Economic ideas have sent the stock market through the roof and cut unemployment in half. There's more work to be done but to say it's DOA just betrays your extreme bias

[DankNuggs 305]

Ridiculous hysteria you don't even believe.

 

Economic ideas have sent the stock market through the roof and cut unemployment in half. There's more work to be done but to say it's DOA just betrays your extreme bias

what are you talking about? the FED? Making money cheaper or making taxes lower boosts economic output... does that have anything to do with democratic economic ideas of redistribution and raising taxes?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

 

The top 1% of wage earners pay 30% of the federal income taxes. The bottom 47% pay nothing with many getting more, up to $5000, than they put in.

 

What is sad is that a White guy living in White America where White privilege is the rule of the land can't get ahead. White people don't even have to try to be successful, it is handed to them with minimal effort. Maybe if you didn't spend your life posting on an Internet Message Board all day and put forth a little effort you could be successful too. Don't villianize the successful blame yourself for being such a loser

 

So, where did you come up with the notion that I'm struggling?

[KSB2424 3,174]

 

 

Good post KSB. But why not just tax it as income? Do we really think people need more incentive to invest their money than to invest their labor? And do away with carried interest while we're at it. Maybe have a one-time lifetime exemption for people who end up selling the business they spend their life building. Bottom line, people who handle their money well are going to keep it working for them even if they have to pay marginally more in taxes.

 

A millionairre who invests and knows that 39.6% of his capital gains will be taken may put his money elswhere. I know it doesn't sit well with us but millionairres invest a lot of money and that helps us all. Think about it, if a Mitt Romney is putting all his money in the markets (to get a lower tax rate) instead of just taking it as income and hording it in some other vehicle, that IS a good thing for the economy. I know it doesn't sit well with people that they get a better rate than if it was income, but the good part of the story is they are INVESTING. Which helps everybody.

 

The other carried interest stuff, sure, okay....to be honest I don't know enough about it to comment. If its a God to honest loophole then yes, close it.

[parrot 789]

 

A millionairre who invests and knows that 39.6% of his capital gains will be taken may put his money elswhere. I know it doesn't sit well with us but millionairres invest a lot of money an that helps us all.

 

The other carried interest stuff, sure, okay....to be honest I don't know enough about it to comment. If its a God to honest loophole then yes, close it.

Where is he going to put it? In a mattress? I totally appreciate that millionaires invest a lot of money that help us. I also appreciate that they are going to continue to invest it even at a higher tax rate, because they aren't dumb. They are going to have their money earning.

 

I'm not even saying that the top rate has to stay 39.6%, I'm just philosophically and pragmatically against this different treatment of income based on its source. We treat short term CG as income, why is that? I say treat it all as regular income and be done with it.

[DankNuggs 305]

it will push money overseas and into tax havens... People will just do what Apple is doing and park everything overseas...

[parrot 789]

So, where did you come up with the notion that I'm struggling?

 

 

Are you paying 20% on your capital gains?

 

All right then, you're a bottom feeder, sorry.

 

Of course, keep in mind, that is coming from a guy who lives off his wife's pension.