Active Shooter At Naval Station

[mobb_deep 920]

Get used to it people. Bush stirred up the hornets nest. Obama left it behind (a mess). Religious nuts here, there, everywhere. I wish all the religious individuals and gun enthusiasts would join the military. Go fight your focking "god" war and leave the rest of us alone. This is the future of America

 

This is, always has been, and always will be a byproduct of a religion based society. It's just greater magnified and intensified by the advancements in technology and weapons of modern day.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I think it basically comes down to gun crime vs gun accidents. You can make a more compelling case that gun restrictions will reduce gun accidents than you can say more guns will reduce gun violence. Certainly there are plenty of anecdotal stories to support either one.

 

In this case though...how would more guns have reduced this or prevented it?

Outside of having snipers on the roof of these buildings.

The guy opened fire from a car...then with police chasing went to the next place to do the same.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/world/us-australia-gun-control/

[porkbutt 897]

 

This is, always has been, and always will be a byproduct of a religion based society. It's just greater magnified and intensified by the advancements in technology and weapons of modern day.

yeah atheists never kill people.

 

stalin, pol pot, mao, ho chi min, hitler, etc

[crackattack 520]

yeah atheists never kill people.

 

stalin, pol pot, mao, ho chi min, hitler

The difference is atheists don't kill in the name of atheism. Atheists don't kill because a book tells them to. Atheists don't kill to spread atheism. Those guys you mentioned killed for power, territory etc etc. Of course there are bad individuals who were atheists. Religious fanatics kill for their god. Religion fanatics kill if people don't convert. Can you provide an example of an athiest murdering in the name of atheism? It's an idiotic comparison. When atheists rise up to kill people who won't give up their religious beliefs, then we'll compare.

[porkbutt 897]

The difference is atheists don't kill in the name of atheism. Atheists don't kill because a book tells them to. Atheists don't kill to spread atheism. Those guys you mentioned killed for power, territory etc etc. Of course there are bad individuals who were atheists. Religious fanatics kill for their god. Religion fanatics kill if people don't convert. Can you provide an example of an athiest murdering in the name of atheism? It's an idiotic comparison. When atheists rise up to kill people who won't give up their religious beliefs, then we'll compare.

they kill to spread something! don't want to sidetrack this thread....it's about 4 dead marines....but it's even more idiotic to say religion causes all the problems when the world biggest atrocities were because of basically avowed atheists.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

they kill to spread something! don't want to sidetrack this thread....it's about 4 dead marines....but it's even more idiotic to say religion causes all the problems when the world biggest atrocities were because of basically avowed atheists.

Oh, I recall several instances of divinely orders genocide in the bible itself.

[porkbutt 897]

Oh, I recall several instances of divinely orders genocide in the bible itself.

was one of them WWI or II ?

[crackattack 520]

they kill to spread something! don't want to sidetrack this thread....it's about 4 dead marines....but it's even more idiotic to say religion causes all the problems when the world biggest atrocities were because of basically avowed atheists.

Pretty sure it's safe to say those 4 Marines are dead because of a religious fanatic. It's also safe to say the world is extremely violent right now due to religion. It's safe to say all those beheadings are due to religion. It's very safe to say that this will continue to happen due to religious fanatics. All those points can't be disputed. Your athiest argument can and has been disputed for decades.

 

That's why I say all the abled bodied religious individuals who think Islam is a trying to take over, kill Christians, and we should be fighting them, well....go sign up and fight your god war. Leave the rest of us alone.

[mobb_deep 920]

yeah atheists never kill people.

 

stalin, pol pot, mao, ho chi min, hitler, etc

 

 

 

The two aren't mutually inclusive. HTH.

[porkbutt 897]

Pretty sure it's safe to say those 4 Marines are dead because of a religious fanatic. It's also safe to say the world is extremely violent right now due to religion. It's safe to say all those beheadings are due to religion. It's very safe to say that this will continue to happen due to religious fanatics. All those points can't be disputed. Your athiest argument can and has been disputed for decades.

 

That's why I say all the abled bodied religious individuals who think Islam is a trying to take over, kill Christians, and we should be fighting them, well....go sign up and fight your god war. Leave the rest of us alone.

not saying they aren't dead because of a religious fanatic. dude you know how dumb you sound?...go fight your god war? are our military all religious zealots?

 

all i said was people who sit there and say all the problems thru history are because of religion are idiotic. was WWII because of religion? more people killed then than any other time in history.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

was one of them WWI or II ?

Depends who you ask I guess. I'm sure many nazis felt it was divinely mandated to kill the Jews.

 

I'm sure many Japanese, while following the son of heavens divine orders, were in religious fervor as they bayoneted babies.

 

Bottom line... I don't really give a Fock why a crazy bastard does what he does. I just want to keep highly efficient killing machines away from him.

[porkbutt 897]

 

The two aren't mutually inclusive. HTH.

that's convenient.

[mobb_deep 920]

not saying they aren't dead because of a religious fanatic. dude you know how dumb you sound?...go fight your god war? are our military all religious zealots?

 

all i said was people who sit there and say all the problems thru history are because of religion are idiotic. was WWII because of religion? more people killed then than any other time in history.

 

You don't seem to grasp the idea that just because every conflict through history was not directly caused by religion, does not mean that religion is/was not a huge catalyst of most violent conflicts throughout history. Aka, you're dumb.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

In this case though...how would more guns have reduced this or prevented it?

Outside of having snipers on the roof of these buildings.

The guy opened fire from a car...then with police chasing went to the next place to do the same.

wasnt really talking about this case, just in general to the gun control sidetrack the thread went on

[crackattack 520]

not saying they aren't dead because of a religious fanatic. dude you know how dumb you sound?...go fight your god war? are our military all religious zealots?

 

all i said was people who sit there and say all the problems thru history are because of religion are idiotic. was WWII because of religion? more people killed then than any other time in history.

I never said all problems in the world are caused by religion. I said the world is extremely violent right now because of it. I never said all problems in history were caused by religion. My issue is this. Christians/religious people want us to fight in the ME to stop the persecution of Christians. Well, those saying that, those who want us over there, go sign up and fight for your religion.

 

Innocent people are being slaughtered right now in the name of religion, yet you want to talk about something that happened 70 plus years ago. The innocent athiests, moderate Christians, moderate Islamists, and all other religious people are dying in the name of religion. It's tiresome and old. Every talking head who thinks we should be fighting in the ME due to religion, grab a gun and go fight.

[crackattack 520]

And for the record. I'm not anti-religion. I think religion provides great services. I think it helps individuals. There are great things religion provide. I'm just tired of religious fanatics murdering. I'm tired of our troops dying for a religious war. I know it's not the Christians fault, but it's the Christians that want us to go fight to defend Christians in the ME. No thanks.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Religion has killed more people than every war put together x10 most likely. Killing in the name of some fake god has been going on since they were invented. If there were no christians or muslims, the world would be a far better place. Christianity and islam..(ism?) is a plague on mankind and you are all dumb for believing in the equivilent of santa clause.

[Sho Nuff 720]

wasnt really talking about this case, just in general to the gun control sidetrack the thread went on

OK...no problem.

[edjr 6,898]

has there ever been a non-active shooter?

[parrot 789]

yeah atheists never kill people.

 

stalin, pol pot, mao, ho chi min, hitler, etc

“Besides that, I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples.” [1] ~Adolf Hitler

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out” [2] ~Adolf Hitler

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

 

[crackattack 520]

Good post. Religious people use athiests or possible atheists to excuse their atrocities throughout history. Even though there is zero evidence to suggest athiest leaders murdered in the name of atheism.

[porkbutt 897]

Religion has killed more people than every war put together x10 most likely.

wrong. WWI and II for example. WWII killed more people that anything in history.

 

and to go along with parrot...are you going to say Hitler was a religious nut? i could find a million quotes that lead me to beleive he was an atheist

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

wrong. WWI and II for example. WWII killed more people that anything in history.

 

and to go along with parrot...are you going to say Hitler was a religious nut? i could find a million quotes that lead me to beleive he was an atheist

Is your point that people don't kill in the name of religion? Because even if people do kill in the name of atheism, that doesn't let religion off the hook.

[crackattack 520]

wrong. WWI and II for example. WWII killed more people that anything in history.

 

and to go along with parrot...are you going to say Hitler was a religious nut? i could find a million quotes that lead me to beleive he was an atheist

And I could find quote after quote saying he used religion to mass murder. At best nobody factually knows since he spoke out of both sides of his mouth. Plus there's evidence that Pol Pot was a Buddhist.

[tanatastic 2,062]

wrong. WWI and II for example. WWII killed more people that anything in history.

 

and to go along with parrot...are you going to say Hitler was a religious nut? i could find a million quotes that lead me to beleive he was an atheist

WW2 was craziness for sure. I actually like that Hitler wasnt some overly religious nut, he wanted to be god himself! I can respect that brand of tyranny.

[parrot 789]

wrong. WWI and II for example. WWII killed more people that anything in history.

 

and to go along with parrot...are you going to say Hitler was a religious nut? i could find a million quotes that lead me to beleive he was an atheist

 

Religious nut? No, except for maybe that thing where he tried to wipe out an entire religion that numbered in the millions. But there are plenty of indications that he was not an atheist.

[porkbutt 897]

Is your point that people don't kill in the name of religion? Because even if people do kill in the name of atheism, that doesn't let religion off the hook.

no my point was more people have been killed not in the name of religion after those two guys comments.

 

and no it does not let religion off the hook....

 

...another scumbag muslim "religion of peace" terrorist.

[porkbutt 897]

 

Religious nut? No, except for maybe that thing where he tried to wipe out an entire religion that numbered in the millions. But there are plenty of indications that he was not an atheist.

so are you saying that hitler killing jews was for religious reasons? and WWII was over religion?

[crackattack 520]

so are you saying that hitler killing jews was for religious reasons? and WWII was over religion?

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

[parrot 789]

so are you saying that hitler killing jews was for religious reasons? and WWII was over religion?

 

Nope. Never said anything close to that. I'm saying Hitler was not an atheist.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Good post. Religious people use athiests or possible atheists to excuse their atrocities throughout history. Even though there is zero evidence to suggest athiest leaders murdered in the name of atheism.

 

Does it matter what "cause" some psycho claimed was his reasoning to murder?

[crackattack 520]

 

Does it matter what "cause" some psycho claimed was his reasoning to murder?

Yes.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Yes.

 

Why?

IMO...its window dressing.

Psychos will find reasons anywhere they can.

[crackattack 520]

It's a root cause. You find out why and learn from it. These aren't individuals killing for sport. These aren't individuals killing because a dog told them to. These are religious fanatics. Make no mistake. They are not crazy. They are in the sheer belief that their actions (murder) will get them to Allah.

[Sho Nuff 720]

It's a root cause. You find out why and learn from it. These aren't individuals killing for sport. These aren't individuals killing because a dog told them to. These are religious fanatics. Make no mistake. They are not crazy. They are in the sheer belief that their actions (murder) will get them to Allah.

 

I think the root cause is people will use things to influence others.

I don't think on his own...this kid would not have done this. It wasn't the dog telling him to...but it certainly seems like its more than just some thoughts in their head to do this before it is put upon them by others they may know, respect, or for whatever reason...look up to.

They buy into the thought that this will get them to Allah...as told to them by others.

Gets fed up with events or his treatment...seeks out others thinking like him and gets influenced more by a group or people similar to ISIS or ISIS itself.

Those people who prey upon others "leading them" to commit acts in the name of whatever at the time (currently and in this case its Allah). Things those people seem eager to tell others to do...but not do themselves much of the time.

 

Again...not excusing him for buying into it and believing it.

 

But the root cause itself is not that this kid was Muslim.

Its what influenced him beyond just that.

[crackattack 520]

Never said the root cause was because we was Muslim. The root cause was an ideology based on religion. Was he peer pressured? Don't know.

[Djgb13 2,339]

Here's the bottom line: people are always going to kill other people. It happens. Is it easier with guns? Yes. They have made even the wimpiest, most cowardly people able to kill people. People can die from long range with deadly force. Before that there was arrows, knives, and swords. If someone wants to kill someone they will. Guns just make it easier. I am pro gun and believe our right to have a gun should be protected. However, does this sound like the type of guy who wouldn't go out to kill someone cause he couldn't get a gun? No it doesn't. He would have resorted to a homemade bomb or black market gun. Make guns harder to get all you want but it's not going to change how people are

[KSB2424 3,174]

 

Nope. Never said anything close to that. I'm saying Hitler was not an atheist.

You'd be wrong too making a definitive statement. From everything I've read Hitler was religious early in life but became further and further away from religion as he became older and especially during his last years ( during the wars).

 

It's why you can find quoted talking about religion and there are a bunch of him talking the opposite. It depends which part of his life they came from.

 

Irregardless, if it's not religion, it's land, or some king screwed over another king or whatever. Or some country or kingdom wants to expand or,...humans will find something.

[naomi 360]

You can have destructive religious-like fervor for ideologies without an appeal to a divine being in the mix (although even when they're non-theist it seems like there's often some creepy spiritual, mystical sense of specialness and destiny with the leaders). Whether you need the God factor to really effectively have masses corralled under the umbrella of a cause is a good question. I don't think you do because history has seen masses unified without that. But why is the God narrative so effective...is it because a divine being resonates with us, and we're not yet evolved beyond that?

 

It's not far fetched to me to see how the idea of institutionally marginalizing or even eradicating religious believers can truly be seen as good, especially in light of a more connected than ever, relatively civilized globe dealing with a brutal, warring, domination seeking group tied together with religious beliefs, while you also have the steady annoyance of progressive obstructionists with their outdated moors in the first world. The way Nazi thinking forwarded that Jews have innate character deficiency can be applied to people who just don't get enlightened out of their superstition. If you're the material that is the conduit for evil, you're a dreg of society.