Stuff You Gave Up for Your Health

[penultimatestraw 473]

You've got a point there. I just can't tell if you're deliberately trolling or a complete blowhard.

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind. Just passing the time like everyone else.

[MDC 5,890]

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind. Just passing the time like everyone else.

Okay. Well in that case I think buffalo wings, pepperoni and bacon are delicious and don't care how much the animals suffer, not my fault they taste so damn good.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Okay. Well in that case I think buffalo wings, pepperoni and bacon are delicious and don't care how much the animals suffer, not my fault they taste so damn good.

Fair enough. Your health will exact revenge for them soon enough.

[MDC 5,890]

Fair enough. Your health will exact revenge for them soon enough.

Lots of non vegans seem to live long healthy lives.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Lots of non vegans seem to live long healthy lives.

None of them eat a diet rich in buffalo wings, pepperoni and bacon.

[MDC 5,890]

None of them eat a diet rich in buffalo wings, pepperoni and bacon.

Neither do I. Sorry pens, I may enjoy great food AND live a long healthy life.

 

It's all so unfair.

[Frank M 181]

Neither do I. Sorry pens, I may enjoy great food AND live a long healthy life.

 

It's all so unfair.

 

 

I worked with a woman in her 70s that smoked unfiltered Pall Malls for 60 years or more. She was still in great shape, no cough, looked good for her age.

 

 

Pretty sure she was an outlier, though.

[MDC 5,890]

 

 

I worked with a woman in her 70s that smoked unfiltered Pall Malls for 60 years or more. She was still in great shape, no cough, looked good for her age.

 

 

Pretty sure she was an outlier, though.

I'm banking on people who occasionally eat wings, bacon, pork etc. and live long lives being much less of an outlier than smokers.

[edjr 5,562]

being a gigantic douche.

 

now I'm just partial douche

[Frank M 181]

I'm banking on people who occasionally eat wings, bacon, pork etc. and live long lives being much less of an outlier than smokers.

 

 

I think pen is talking about the people whose only green contribution to their diet is the occasional lime jello.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

 

I worked with a woman in her 70s that smoked unfiltered Pall Malls for 60 years or more. She was still in great shape, no cough, looked good for her age.

 

 

Pretty sure she was an outlier, though.

Good genes trump everything. Just hope you got 'em.

[MDC 5,890]

 

 

I think pen is talking about the people whose only green contribution to their diet is the occasional lime jello.

He seems to lecture everyone who isn't vegan.

[penultimatestraw 473]

He seems to lecture everyone who isn't vegan.

Dude, I'm not vegan. I don't care what you eat, but as worms correctly stated, the health benefits of a plant-rich diet are irrefutable.

[edjr 5,562]

He seems to lecture everyone who isn't vegan.

 

 

Woman Trying To Prove That “Vegans Can Do Anything” Dies Climbing Mount Everest

 

http://time.com/4344556/mount-everest-death-climbing-vegan/

[Frank M 181]

Good genes trump everything. Just hope you got 'em.

 

 

Pretty sure I don't.

 

[MDC 5,890]

Dude, I'm not vegan. I don't care what you eat, but as worms correctly stated, the health benefits of a plant-rich diet are irrefutable.

That's true but I think you've got to balance the potential health benefits vs enjoyment / quality of life. Lots of things reduce your life expectancy to some degree but if we didn't do any of then life would be pretty damn boring.

 

Lumping eating meat at all in with smoking or hard drug use is to me kinda silly.

[Frank M 181]

That's true but I think you've got to balance the potential health benefits vs enjoyment / quality of life. Lots of things reduce your life expectancy to some degree but if we didn't do any of then life would be pretty damn boring.

 

Lumping eating meat at all in with smoking or hard drug use is to me kinda silly.

 

I don't know, dude. Diabetes is a sh1tshow and it can mostly be avoided by proper eating.

[TheNewGirl 1,028]

I stopped eating meat to minimize animal cruelty. I only eat things like scallops and shrimp, which have rudimentary nervous systems and arguably cannot suffer. There is some debate whether they feel pain or not, but anywhere higher on the evolutionary tree this argument falls apart.

 

As far as health concerns, diets which include seafood are almost as good as true vegetarian and vegan ones. Most of the data for harm related to animal protein consumption is based on land based sources, especially red meat. There are some problems with eating seafood though, such as mercury consumption and PCBs.

 

I don't quite have the discipline for veganism, but am slowly migrating in that direction as more vegan choices become widely available. Eliminating dairy has become pretty easy in the last few years with all the soy and nut milk products, for example. Eggs are tough to avoid.

 

This is basically my view as well. I cut out red meat and pork over 25 years ago, now working to cut out poultry and just keep it to seafood. I still keep eggs on hand, but they are the brown fee range/cage free, etc. I also cut out dairy, but also eliminated soy.

 

It's becoming easier and easier to find vegan/vegetarian options. I have recently learned more about making my own fresh juices, too, which keeps things interesting.

[MDC 5,890]

 

I don't know, dude. Diabetes is a sh1tshow and it can mostly be avoided by proper eating.

You're not likely to get diabetes from occasionally eating meat absent any other factors.

[penultimatestraw 473]

That's true but I think you've got to balance the potential health benefits vs enjoyment / quality of life. Lots of things reduce your life expectancy to some degree but if we didn't do any of then life would be pretty damn boring.

 

Lumping eating meat at all in with smoking or hard drug use is to me kinda silly.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, which is shared by many. Personally I don't miss meat one iota and when I did eat it I never felt it added excitement to my life.

 

I also don't recall anyone equating meat consumption with smoking or hard drug use.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I have recently learned more about making my own fresh juices, too, which keeps things interesting.

[parrot 789]

[MDC 5,890]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, which is shared by many. Personally I don't miss meat one iota and when I did eat it I never felt it added excitement to my life.

 

I also don't recall anyone equating meat consumption with smoking or hard drug use.

I know the comparison has been made in past threads although I can't entirely recall the context.

 

What's the average life expectancy of vegetarians vs non vegs all other things being equal?

[penultimatestraw 473]

I know the comparison has been made in past threads although I can't entirely recall the context.

 

What's the average life expectancy of vegetarians vs non vegs all other things being equal?

The Adventist Health studies have probably the most extensive data on this topic. Vegetarian males in one of their studies lived 7+ years longer than non-Adventist controls who ate meat. Of course Adventists also have other heathy behavior which confounds things a bit. But I don't think that tells the whole story, as I'm willing to bet the quality of disease-free life makes their longevity even more meaningful. IIRC the life expectancy difference between adventist vegans and those who ate some meat was ~3 years.

[MDC 5,890]

The Adventist Health studies have probably the most extensive data on this topic. Vegetarian males in one of their studies lived 7+ years longer than non-Adventist controls who ate meat. Of course Adventists also have other heathy behavior which confounds things a bit. But I don't think that tells the whole story, as I'm willing to bet the quality of disease-free life makes their longevity even more meaningful. IIRC the life expectancy difference between adventist vegans and those who ate some meat was ~3 years.

Are there any controls though? I'm assuming vegetarians and vegans have far lower rates of say smoking / drinking / drug use and generally exercise much more. If I thought vegetarians lived for 5-10 years more I would consider it but my guess is absent other factors there isn't a whole lot of difference between them and healthy meat eating.

[12th Man 884]

FFTODAY.

[TheNewGirl 1,028]

Are there any controls though? I'm assuming vegetarians and vegans have far lower rates of say smoking / drinking / drug use and generally exercise much more. If I thought vegetarians lived for 5-10 years more I would consider it but my guess is absent other factors there isn't a whole lot of difference between them and healthy meat eating.

 

 

Isn't 7 between 5 and 10 ?

 

[MDC 5,890]

 

 

Isn't 7 between 5 and 10 ?

 

Did you not understand the issue of controls? In all likelihood vegetarians aren't living 7 years more because they don't eat meat, they're living longer because they also don't smoke, over drink, do drugs, they exercise etc.

 

You really think you're going to live 7 more years cause you don't eat meat?

[tanatastic 2,061]

Meat is delicious and will be mass produced, otherwise this ranks among your more idiotic, dogmatic rants.

You admit that it is delish and nothing you do will stop its mass production (my 2 major points) yet call it idiotic. Its more like dead on, nail on the head.

 

I don't know why penny always gets so much sh1t for the vegetarian thing.

 

It is pretty much indisputably a healthier lifestyle.

 

 

If he said he was a veggie to be healthy, that would be fine. But he said he was a vegetarian to protest cruelty to animals. Then admits meat will be mass produced regardless of his vegetarianism and that meat is delicious. So we have a guy who deprives himself of something that is good, for a cause he knows he has zero effect on. Im a Penny fan but im sorry, that is silly.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You admit that it is delish and nothing you do will stop its mass production (my 2 major points) yet call it idiotic. Its more like dead on, nail on the head.

 

If he said he was a veggie to be healthy, that would be fine. But he said he was a vegetarian to protest cruelty to animals. Then admits meat will be mass produced regardless of his vegetarianism and that meat is delicious. So we have a guy who deprives himself of something that is good, for a cause he knows he has zero effect on. Im a Penny fan but im sorry, that is silly.

I didn't say I wouldn't make an impact, albeit small. I slowly think our culture is shifting, with people caring a bit more about what they eat. Vegetarianism is becoming more mainstream, and even vegans have a lot more choices nowadays. I believe there will be a significant dip in meat consumption in our lifetime, although it will probably be motivated in large part due to economic concerns.

 

Regardless, if I want to minimize harm to animals, what is wrong with personally choosing to lessen my consumption of animal products? And there are plenty of delicious vegetarian dishes.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Did you not understand the issue of controls? In all likelihood vegetarians aren't living 7 years more because they don't eat meat, they're living longer because they also don't smoke, over drink, do drugs, they exercise etc.

 

You really think you're going to live 7 more years cause you don't eat meat?

It is bit less than that, but it is probably somewhere between 3-5 years when you adjust for confounders like smoking, alcohol use and exercise (all the studies have slightly different methodology, so it is hard to give a single number; the Adventist data is probably the most rigorous). But as I said above, I also bet their quality of life is higher, as living relatively disease free until old age far outweighs the pleasure and excitement eating meat adds to one's shortened life.

[MDC 5,890]

It is bit less than that, but it is probably somewhere between 3-5 years when you adjust for confounders like smoking, alcohol use and exercise (all the studies have slightly different methodology, so it is hard to give a single number; the Adventist data is probably the most rigorous). But as I said above, I also bet their quality of life is higher, as living relatively disease free until old age far outweighs the pleasure and excitement eating meat adds to one's shortened life.

I would be very surprised to find that absent any other factors, vegetarians are expected to live 3-5 years longer than non vegs. My guess is you're probably talking about a year with no significant difference in quality of life.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I would be very surprised to find that absent any other factors, vegetarians are expected to live 3-5 years longer than non vegs. My guess is you're probably talking about a year with no significant difference in quality of life.

I don't know what to tell you. It seems you've already made up your mind that diet doesn't make that big of a difference in longevity. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

This is one of the Adventist studies; they control for smoking, exercise and alcohol intake. They don't give lifespan unfortunately, just relative risk of death. http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1710093

[Me_2006 14]

Red heads.

[Me_2006 14]

I gave up sunflower seeds during baseball season. Caused internal bleeding.

Try eating them instead.

[MDC 5,890]

I don't know what to tell you. It seems you've already made up your mind that diet doesn't make that big of a difference in longevity. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

I actually said nothing of the kind - it looks like you're bowling for strawmen today.

 

Of course diet makes a difference in longevity. I just don't think that vegetarianism vs. non-vegetarianism is the single biggest indicator of a healthy diet. I also don't believe meat eaters die on average 5-10 years sooner than their vegetarian counterparts all other things being equal. I'm open to changing my mind on that but you don't seem to have any evidence to back this claim up.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Try eating them instead.

[tanatastic 2,061]

 

I actually said nothing of the kind - it looks like you're bowling for strawmen today.

 

Of course diet makes a difference in longevity. I just don't think that vegetarianism vs. non-vegetarianism is the single biggest indicator of a healthy diet. I also don't believe meat eaters die on average 5-10 years sooner than their vegetarian counterparts all other things being equal. I'm open to changing my mind on that but you don't seem to have any evidence to back this claim up.

I am dubious of any and all of those studies that track years left, years lived etc. The amount of variables we are talking about is innumerable. So many factors go into a lifespan, it cannot be calculated, estimated or approximated. It certainly cannot be a subject of drawn conclusions like "so and so ate meat and died at 40, other guy didnt and died at 70." . There are 2 pack a day smokers who live to 90 and there are health nuts who die at 38. All these studies that show this or that had this or that effect on a lifespan are totally bogus. I can find any narrative I want if I look for it. Im sure I could track 2 people and discover the one who wore red more died earlier, so the color red has a chance to shorten lifespan.

[TheNewGirl 1,028]

No I don't think I am going to magically live longer because I lean towards a vegan/vegetarian/clean diet.

 

I DO know that it makes me feel better, makes me perform better athletically, and helps with stuff like skin and hair, etc.

[Vic_Rattlehead 0]

... and helps with stuff like skin and hair, etc.

 

So does my spunk.