Trade between Fightn' Whities and Jed's Clamp It

[Dan Sez 0]

I got a message from Scatterjack about a trade. I would like both to post and confirm the trade. Please read the following closely.

 

 

Once a team has posted a trade and either the Commish or Trade Czar has approved it, teams may use those players in their lineups while the rest of the league has a time period to impose their own challenge process.

 

That was the verbage I tried to add in the rules about starting players that could later be taken off your roster (resulting in a corresponding zero score).

 

This is a different situation. We have a player who has already scored points this week and was in a legal lineup for a team. Jed's Clamp It has already used/claimed the points of Peyton Manning for Week 1. Those points can not be transferred any more than a team could transfer a player from inactive to active status after their score is known.

 

 

This is a paste and copy of Scatterjack's email:

420 and I agrred on a trade.

Fighting Whities send Trent Green and Stephen Davis to Jed

for Peyton Manning and Justin McCareins.

 

I sent the offer Wed but he didnt accept until Friday. Its up to you to decide whether these players are eligible to use on our new rosters this week. Below is the email that went back and forth. I guess you need him to confirm still? Please advise on how to proceed.

 

Currently FnW is using Trent Green as his starting QB. If you confirm and execute this trade before Trent Green plays, Scatterjack will have to use either Rich Gannon or Mark Brunnell as his starter. He can not use Peyton Manning as his starter for Week 1 because he has already been used this week.

 

Currently FnW is also listing Stephen Davis as a starter.

 

Jed listed Peyton Manning as starter and the game has already occured for this week. We can not shift that player for Week 1 score.

 

Jed also list Justin McCariens as a starter.

 

If you confirm and the trade is approved today:

Fightn' Whities can use Justin McCariens in his lineup

Jed's Clamp It can use Stephen Davis in his lineup

 

Jed can not replace Peyton Manning for Week 1 scores even if he gets Trent Green today.

 

Comments?

 

My rationale is that once a player plays a game, a result is KNOWN and his position as starter, backup or whatever can not be changed after the fact.

 

I will codify this clarification into the rules set for the 2004 season along with nots and rulings about the ownership change and pass it out with the Free Agent

results of Week 1.

 

Please state your opinions and lets get have a positive resolution to this question.

 

Thanks

 

(Note: one team or the other may wish to NOT confirm the trade until after week one due to the Peyton Manning rule - hey that sounds catchy.)

[FourTwoOh 0]

I'm feeling a definate delay in being able to confirm this coming on. I agree that a players known score should not be tradeable.

 

Scatt, you still good with this if we make it effective Tuesday?

[whoisjgalt 0]

Dan - I think that the process you've outlined could be dangeous. Here's why...

 

Basically, it works out to be two trades. The first trade is Green & Davis for McCareins now. The second trade is Manning for free next week.

 

The two trade aspect is dangerous. It can lead to "rent-a-player" scenarios. I could write out a long story of how this could be unfairly used. Instead, I believe that we should rule that the trade doesn't take effect until the end of this week's games.

 

In a two-for-two trade, why should the one guy get use of three of them the first week and the other guy only one? If the first game of the players involved in the trade has already kicked off, all the players are locked on their current rosters until the end of the last of their games for that week. How does that sound? Also, if Green or Davis or McCareins get hurt between now and the trade's effective date then the trade czar's ruling may change.

 

... which is what FourTwoOh suggested anyway ...

[Dan Sez 0]

I am not saying split the trade, sorry for the confusion. I ment that if they confirm the trade today, then Peyton Manning moves to a new roster, but that team can not use his points for week one.

 

Yes please do confirm and lets pass the trade if you guys wish to. I just don't think:

1. that the score for a known game should transfer

2. that Jed be allowed to plug in another starter for this week since that player has already recorded a score.

 

I hope that clears up my meaning and warning. I am not trying to add a delay or split the trade into parts.

 

If Scatter would rather have Step. Davis in his lineup (and risk the injury bug) instead of getting Justin McCariens, he will not be "compensated" with Peyton's addition to WEEK 1 lineup. He can be on his roster within an hour if both post and confirm the trade.

 

Maybe I am thinking too much.

 

The brunt on the ruling is to not let an KNOWN score be transferred. How best can I phrase that type of ruling and does anyone have objection or comment to that part?

[whoisjgalt 0]

Dan - Honestly, I think you are thinking too much.

 

Think of it this way:

 

Week One) 420 has Manning & Davis & Green available to him and Scatter has only McCareins available to him. The only way to look at that is that it's effectively Davis & Green for McCareins as trade phase one.

 

Week Two) 420 now has Davis & Green and Scatter now has Manning & McCareins. Effectively it's Manning for free as trade phase two.

 

If Manning had gotten a goose egg for Manning, then the ability to swap in another player would buy him something. Since Manning had a decent but not spectacular game, he's now has the ability to take that so-so score off the board and replace it.

 

We'd all love to be able to swap out low scorers for guys we'd had on our benches who ended up scoring more. But that's not in the spirit of this game. Right?

 

(It doesn't matter whether 420 would or wouldn't want to do this in this situation. It's the precident.)

[Dan Sez 0]

Think of it this way:

 

Week One) 420 has Manning & Davis & Green available to him ...

420 has already used Payton Manning for his week 1 score so he can not sub in Trent Green either.

 

They can trade the players, but 420 has already locked in Peyton Manning as his qb of choice, the game played and he has to keep that score - can not sub in Trent Green.

 

Scatterjack can't use Peyton Manning's points this week either and if he trades Trent Green before the kickoff of the KC Den game, the he can not use Trent Green's points either.

 

Can't use Manning, who out of Green, Brunnell and Gannon does Scat want to start. If he prefers to start Gannon or Brunnel, then it doesn't matter, post a confirm now, trade is done and 420 can use Step Davis, Scat can use Justin McCariens.

 

420's QB score for week one is already settled. It was Payton Manning and we can not transfer those points. It is a Known variable.

 

I think we agree in intent.

[Scatterjack 0]

LOL, dammit 420, why didnt you just answer my email Wednesday when I sent it? Just kidding.

 

Right, we cant go replacing known scores.

JGalt has a point about the 2 phase/Manning for free thing, that isnt fair either.

 

Is it fair to say:

 

420 and I have agreed to terms of a deal. Neither of us can back out of said deal unless a major injury occurs to one of the involved players this weekend. I have absolutely no problem waiting until Tuesday for the deal to go through, but I also dont want anyone to be able to come in and outbid anyone for any of the players involved.

[FourTwoOh 0]

Is it fair to say:

 

420 and I have agreed to terms of a deal. Neither of us can back out of said deal unless a major injury occurs to one of the involved players this weekend. I have absolutely no problem waiting until Tuesday for the deal to go through, but I also dont want anyone to be able to come in and outbid anyone for any of the players involved.

Yup, concurr. Those players are off limits for trading purposes.

 

So we agree to a Tuesday morning trade of Manning/ McCariens for T Green/S Davis.

 

[Dan Sez 0]

Good.

A clarification will be included in the rules set.

Thanks

[whoisjgalt 0]

Good.

A clarification will be included in the rules set.

Thanks

[Scatterjack 0]

 

Is it fair to say:

 

420 and I have agreed to terms of a deal. Neither of us can back out of said deal unless a major injury occurs to one of the involved players this weekend. I have absolutely no problem waiting until Tuesday for the deal to go through, but I also dont want anyone to be able to come in and outbid anyone for any of the players involved.

Yup, concurr. Those players are off limits for trading purposes.

 

So we agree to a Tuesday morning trade of Manning/ McCariens for T Green/S Davis.

 

agreed and concurred...............

[whoisjgalt 0]

Here was the concern I had/have. (hypothetical situation alert)

 

I'm in a big game against Hig Chew with the division title in the balance (somebody's win puts him up by two games plus the tiebreaker advantage). It's week nine (or something close to the trade deadline) and he's up by 18 after the Sunday at 4pm games with nobody left and I've got Chambers going in the Sunday night game. Miami is playing the Chargers on Sunday night (a stinker ESPN game, per usual).

 

I get O on the phone and deal him a package that includes Chambers and Owens and Westbrook for Tomlinson. We get the approval before the Sunday night game kickoff and we've followed all the "rules." I swap out Chambers from my lineup and start Tomlinson instead. He scores 20 and I win. I get to keep the points scored by Owens and Westbrooks too.

 

I wouldn't have cheated per the rules, but that's not a ethical way to get a win. I realize that 420 and Scatter aren't trying to pull a funny one here. It's just that when we open the window on this sort of thing, someone could eventually take advantage of the loophole we've allowed. I'm creative enough to think of these ideas, but luckily I choose not to follow through on them.

[Scatterjack 0]

Thats when the Dungeon Commissioner's office steps in and makes a judgement that may or may not be spelled out in the rules. I think we've all "commished" leagues and run into situations not perfectly spelled out in the rules (even if the rules are 3,982 pages ). With only 12 hand picked owners here, I think we have an ethical group where that it would be next to impossible to find 2 owners willing to damage the integrity of the league. But now we have all seen the sinister mind of JGalt at its worst and I think someone should keep a close eye on him in the seasons to come......

[whoisjgalt 0]

But now we have all seen the sinister mind of JGalt at its worst and I think someone should keep a close eye on him in the seasons to come......

I'm the kind of guy who thinks up "perfect crime" scenarios during moments of insomnia. It's too bad I hate to write, 'cause I could really come up with some great novel ideas.

 

Luckily, this mindset does come in handy in my line of work. Not directly, but the mental framework does pay off.

 

If you're worried, just wish for me to get more .

[Hog Chow 0]

Screw the rules......I would hunt you down with my baseball bat!!!!!!

[Scatterjack 0]

As far as I'm concerned we can transact now....

[Orgazmo 2]

Alrighty then. I'll update the trade a little later today.

[Orgazmo 2]

Holy cow, 420.

 

Panthers | Davis Out 2-5 Weeks, Surgery Coming - from www.KFFL.com

Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:07:44 -0700

 

Jay Glazer, of Fox Sports, reports on Foxsports.com that Carolina Panthers RB Stephen Davis (knee) will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery Friday, Sept. 17, and will miss two to five weeks. Davis has had some swelling in the knee since the preseason, when he missed the third preseason game. Davis had an MRI on his knee Thursday, Sept. 16, and the team decided to have a scope done on it.

[FourTwoOh 0]

Holy cow, 420.

 

Panthers | Davis Out 2-5 Weeks, Surgery Coming - from www.KFFL.com

Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:07:44 -0700

 

Jay Glazer, of Fox Sports, reports on Foxsports.com that Carolina Panthers RB Stephen Davis (knee) will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery Friday, Sept. 17, and will miss two to five weeks. Davis has had some swelling in the knee since the preseason, when he missed the third preseason game. Davis had an MRI on his knee Thursday, Sept. 16, and the team decided to have a scope done on it.

Yup! Sure solved my problem just fine.

 

Anybody need a RB jinxed, send him my way and I'll see to it that he doesn't do shiat.

 

 

where's the gun to the head smilie when ya need it?