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Fumbleweed

**2019 Masters Thread**

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2 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Laugh all you want but the media did this.  He’s gotten 90% of the media attention even when he was out of contention.  I’m over it and have been for a long time.  

If Jack was in this era and had the same path it would have been the same.  Welcome to 2019.  But today you are wondering why they are talking so much about Tiger?  I mean you have had to of mis posted or something.

Im not holding it againt you.  You dont like Tiger that is fine.  If it were a guy you liked in his same spot you wouldnt care.  Its natural I suppose.  But I dont know why you would be confused today about the coverage.

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4 minutes ago, sderk said:

Woods beat out the great Xander Schauffle along with other greats:

Brooks Koepka and Tony Finau.

Legendary moments on the course. This is one for the books. :rolleyes:

I forgot the great Webb Simpson. That was a memorable performance there.

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4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If Jack was in this era and had the same path it would have been the same.  Welcome to 2019.  But today you are wondering why they are talking so much about Tiger?  I mean you have had to of mis posted or something.

Im not holding it againt you.  You dont like Tiger that is fine.  If it were a guy you liked in his same spot you wouldnt care.  Its natural I suppose.  But I dont know why you would be confused today about the coverage.

Nobody’s confused.  When you’re in the car for hours it’s beyond overkill.  

I was a fan when he first came on the scene.  I worked for Nike then so it was almost required.  

But I grew to hate his smugness and childish behavior on the course over the years.  When he insisted that he’d won the grand slam I was out for good.  No longer a fan and never will be.  

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11 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

So you're offended that some are of the opinion Jack's '86 win was bigger - why?

Im not.  Its the defensive nature of it.  YOU guy are the ones who bring up Jack today.  Because you are defensive about your hero of yesteryear.  I get it.  

You werent even one of the ones I am talking about here.  You gave props.  Others peoples thoughts on the matter is its overhyped and jacks was better.  Almost like big deal.  

Same people want to play on the side that he is totally washed up and overrated.  Are the same people who now act like winning a FOCKING grean Jacket 2 years after chipping like a 25 handicap isnt amazing.  

Predictable.  To not stop short of giving Tiger total props would be blasphemy to you hero of the past.  It cant just be amazing.  Its amazing but it isnt jack and every gave up fot him is the narrative with some here already.

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22 minutes ago, sderk said:

Woods beat out the great Xander Schauffle along with other greats:

Brooks Koepka and Tony Finau.

Legendary moments on the course. This is one for the books. :rolleyes:

I'll say this. It's a better group of players than what he faced in the early 2000s. I'll give him that, especially at age 43. Most were failing this tourney so he got to face 2 guys that are not ready for prime time in the last round. I mean, this field had Dustin, Speef (who has fallen apart), Rory, Day, Mickelson, Koepka, Bubba among others. 

The only recent hacks are Willett and Duffner. maybe Kaymer because he's flamed out. The rest are going to be plaing for a couple decades plus and competing.

Back in the early 2000s he beat up hacks like
Geoff Ogilvy
Lucas Glover
Ben Curtis
Shaun Micheel
Michael Campbell
Rich Beem
David Toms
Mike Weir
Todd Hamilton
Look at some of these guys careers. I mean one guy won a major , 2 ham & egger tourneys  and that was it. After his win it was 'cut' 'cut' 'cut' in majors.

I mean, who are these bums winning majors instead of great players back then? There was Ernie and Vjay and Mickelson and a lot of ham & eggers. Also, Padrig for 2 years.

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9 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If Jack was in this era and had the same path it would have been the same.  Welcome to 2019.  But today you are wondering why they are talking so much about Tiger?  I mean you have had to of mis posted or something.

Im not holding it againt you.  You dont like Tiger that is fine.  If it were a guy you liked in his same spot you wouldnt care.  Its natural I suppose.  But I dont know why you would be confused today about the coverage.

For me, it's not that I don't like Tiger, I despise his crowd of retards. They make it easy to root against him. I mean when some jack-ass screams , 'yeah tiger, what a great shot and he can't see where it went because he's 8 deep and woods is Woods is hacking out from behind a tree, only to watch it go into a bunker, that's a full blow retard. Yeah, someone did that a few years back. I think it was the tourney where the nut huggers moved that big boulder for him.

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15 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Laugh all you want but the media did this.  He’s gotten 90% of the media attention even when he was out of contention.  I’m over it and have been for a long time.  

This. 

Tiger deserves all the attention today as does any Masters champion. He deserves more even as his star is brighter and story more compelling. 

But, the media has made Tiger the story this entire decade. He will not be the Player of the Decade. That award (if there was such a thing) will go to Rory most likely with Dustin Johnson likely second. It hasn't been a dominant decade for either guy, but both have accomplished more than Tiger. Still, it has been Tiger 24/7 with golf media and especially with ESPN who sometimes forget that there's a world outside of Tiger and LeBron. It's like the golf media never even witnessed anything else this decade and that's sad because some compelling stuff has happened in the sport in addition to what Tiger has done or not done. Overkill. 

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43 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Im not.  Its the defensive nature of it.  YOU guy are the ones who bring up Jack today.  Because you are defensive about your hero of yesteryear.  I get it.  

You werent even one of the ones I am talking about here.  You gave props.  Others peoples thoughts on the matter is its overhyped and jacks was better.  Almost like big deal.  

Same people want to play on the side that he is totally washed up and overrated.  Are the same people who now act like winning a FOCKING grean Jacket 2 years after chipping like a 25 handicap isnt amazing.  

Predictable.  To not stop short of giving Tiger total props would be blasphemy to you hero of the past.  It cant just be amazing.  Its amazing but it isnt jack and every gave up fot him is the narrative with some here already.

I'm not here to debate who's was better or bigger. I was as excited for Tiger as I was for Jack - both are monumental moments in my sports life - I can appreciate them both.

But I understand those who want to debate it. I wish they wouldn't, but I understand. Jack and Tiger will always instantly draw comparisons - least till Tiger gets #19.

It's hard to imagine now, but one day a new kid will emerge and he will join the conversation of Jack and Tiger... Why? Bcoz the game is always improving on itself.... Old Tom Morris fans thought they'd seen it all  - then Vardon came along.. Vardon fans thought they'd seen it all - then Bobby Jones came along.. Bob Jones fans thought they'd seen it all - then Hogan came along.. Hogan fans thought they'd seen it all - then Nicklaus came along.. Nicklaus fans thought they'd seen it all - then Tiger came along........ Who will come next? Idk, but history says somebody will.

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18 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

I'm not here to debate who's was better or bigger. I was as excited for Tiger as I was for Jack - both are monumental moments in my sports life - I can appreciate them both.

But I understand those who want to debate it. I wish they wouldn't, but I understand. Jack and Tiger will always instantly draw comparisons - least till Tiger gets #19.

It's hard to imagine now, but one day a new kid will emerge and he will join the conversation of Jack and Tiger... Why? Bcoz the game is always improving on itself.... Old Tom Morris fans thought they'd seen it all  - then Vardon came along.. Vardon fans thought they'd seen it all - then Bobby Jones came along.. Bob Jones fans thought they'd seen it all - then Hogan came along.. Hogan fans thought they'd seen it all - then Nicklaus came along.. Nicklaus fans thought they'd seen it all - then Tiger came along........ Who will come next? Idk, but history says somebody will.

Rory came along and he actually has a better game than Tiger tee-to-green. But, he's turned out to be an inconsistent putter and a so-so scrambler and it has cost him wins. Tee to green, though, Rory is terrific and his A-game matches Tiger's A-game from 2005-2008. I don't think any match exists for Tiger's A-game from 1999-2002. Not even Jack. 

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3 minutes ago, Fumbleweed said:

Rory came along and he actually has a better game than Tiger tee-to-green. But, he's turned out to be an inconsistent putter and a so-so scrambler and it has cost him wins. Tee to green, though, Rory is terrific and his A-game matches Tiger's A-game from 2005-2008. I don't think any match exists for Tiger's A-game from 1999-2002. Not even Jack. 

Rory is not the successor to Tiger.........Whoever it is may not even be born yet - but they will come, least history says they will.

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3 hours ago, lod001 said:

Longest streak between green jackets. 2nd guy to have 15 majors, 2nd oldest Masters winner. 1st time coming from behind. 1st time not being a d1ck when winning a major. That was refreshing. Loads of history there.

1st time his nut huggers didn't hug his nuts. Wait a minute. That one actually got worse.  They actually almost caused him injury and could have taken him out of the tourney.

btw, did you know he was the only one to birdied #11 in round 3....in case you missed the announcers state that 35 times on Saturday.

The only one of those for history would be the longest streak between winning the Masters...  The others, not even close...

Also, I don't care if wasn't acting like a complete dickhead, he has been a terrible human being in the past and no matter what he does now will never overshadow that...

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14 minutes ago, posty said:

The only one of those for history would be the longest streak between winning the Masters...  The others, not even close...

Also, I don't care if wasn't acting like a complete dickhead, he has been a terrible human being in the past and no matter what he does now will never overshadow that...

Yeah, that was all sarcasm. The only thing I can think of was the time between Masters wins.

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32 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Rory is not the successor to Tiger.........Whoever it is may not even be born yet - but they will come, least history says they will.

Rory could have been but he lost the fire after a couple of majors then went for the $ with garbage nike clubs that cost him a few years. It's gonna be virtually impossible for someone to come close to 18 majors ever again because you have to find a rare guy who dedicates him to this above all else. Tiger didn't care about anyone or anything but majors.

He was 1 behind Tiger at the same age and then found chicks wanted him and Nike wanted him.

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1 minute ago, lod001 said:

...and then found chicks wanted him.

Chicks wanted his money. "Chicks" wanted him. 

"Chicks" = Ugly broke waitresses.

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6 hours ago, lod001 said:

I'll say this. It's a better group of players than what he faced in the early 2000s. I'll give him that, especially at age 43. Most were failing this tourney so he got to face 2 guys that are not ready for prime time in the last round. I mean, this field had Dustin, Speef (who has fallen apart), Rory, Day, Mickelson, Koepka, Bubba among others. 

The only recent hacks are Willett and Duffner. maybe Kaymer because he's flamed out. The rest are going to be plaing for a couple decades plus and competing.

Back in the early 2000s he beat up hacks like
Geoff Ogilvy
Lucas Glover
Ben Curtis
Shaun Micheel
Michael Campbell
Rich Beem
David Toms
Mike Weir
Todd Hamilton
Look at some of these guys careers. I mean one guy won a major , 2 ham & egger tourneys  and that was it. After his win it was 'cut' 'cut' 'cut' in majors.

I mean, who are these bums winning majors instead of great players back then? There was Ernie and Vjay and Mickelson and a lot of ham & eggers. Also, Padrig for 2 years.

Yeah no comparison to Orville Moody. Tommy Aaron.  Charles Coody. Dave Marr. Lou Graham.

Yes you are so right.  In Jacks day there were NEVER any no names to win majors.  These guys are all legends.

 

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It's the reverse Larry Bird effect.

If Tiger were white, he'd be just another good player.

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Im not even one to say Tiger is better than Jack.  But there is certainly an argument to have.  And if he gets to 18 or hell even 16 or 17 then his resume is basically the same with how many more wins he has.

Im just tired of the past backers passing off false claims like Tiger played bums Jack didnt.  Or it was harder to win back then (when simple logic woulf suggest otherwise. And actual pros would probably agree).  

Neither one has to be better than the other.   Tiger backers applaud and marvel at Jacks 18 and numerous 2nds.  The ol jack fans sit and try to tear down anything Tiger does.  There is a stark difference.

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Tiger looked like he was back on the steroids. Any record of his drug testing over the past year?

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1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Tiger backers applaud and marvel at Jacks 18 and numerous 2nds.  The ol jack fans sit and try to tear down anything Tiger does.  There is a stark difference.

I guess I missed all the Tiger fan marveling over Jack's 18. 19 runner ups and 48 top 3's (twice as many as Tiger). I have found the opposite in fact.

 

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36 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

I guess I missed all the Tiger fan marveling over Jack's 18. 19 runner ups and 48 top 3's (twice as many as Tiger). I have found the opposite in fact.

 

Where?  Young old tiger fan non tiger fan......I hardly ever hear anyone say Jack was overrated or tear him down.  

Are you on twitter or something talking to 12 year olds?  Who exactly says anything bad about Jack?  18 is amazing.  He set the bar so far ahead.  Like Jerry Rice or Wayne Gretzky.  

This thread is proof enough of  Jacks little fans of yesterday and how they feel about Tiger.  

Different POV we will see it different.  But I see Tiger fan excited to chase Jack again.  I see Jack fan as bitter, generally.  Even though their hero is as gracious as they come.  

Even your random quip about his top 3s was a stamp of your bitterness.

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40 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Where?  Young old tiger fan non tiger fan......I hardly ever hear anyone say Jack was overrated or tear him down.  

Are you on twitter or something talking to 12 year olds?  Who exactly says anything bad about Jack?  18 is amazing.  He set the bar so far ahead.  Like Jerry Rice or Wayne Gretzky.  

This thread is proof enough of  Jacks little fans of yesterday and how they feel about Tiger.  

Different POV we will see it different.  But I see Tiger fan excited to chase Jack again.  I see Jack fan as bitter, generally.  Even though their hero is as gracious as they come.  

Even your random quip about his top 3s was a stamp of your bitterness.

Bitterness? You sound like the stereo typical butt hurt Tiger fan who's not even made it out their 20's yet.

The top 3 mark was a direct reference to the discussion - not some shot.

And where? Everywhere. I've been playing for over 40 years, 2 to 3 times a week for over 20 years - I see and hear it all the time in the golf circles I travel. What I seldom hear is those who think golf was invented in 1997 ever recognize Jack.

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52 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Where?  Young old tiger fan non tiger fan......I hardly ever hear anyone say Jack was overrated or tear him down.  

Are you on twitter or something talking to 12 year olds?  Who exactly says anything bad about Jack?  18 is amazing.  He set the bar so far ahead.  Like Jerry Rice or Wayne Gretzky.  

This thread is proof enough of  Jacks little fans of yesterday and how they feel about Tiger.  

Different POV we will see it different.  But I see Tiger fan excited to chase Jack again.  I see Jack fan as bitter, generally.  Even though their hero is as gracious as they come.  

Even your random quip about his top 3s was a stamp of your bitterness.

I don't really see anyone denying Tiger's greatness on the course.  He was absolutely dominant at times.  That cannot be denied.  That doesn't mean I have to like him or root for him.  I don't and I won't.  

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What's interesting about Tiger is how people who follow golf primarily to follow him feel about the other golfers. My mother, for example, is a huge Tiger fan and talks about all of his personal struggles and how she wants him to overcome them. When I point out to her that other golfers have struggles and cool back-stories, too, she is almost incredulous. It's like Tiger fans see all the other golfers as the Washington Generals and Tiger as the Globetrotters. They're just props set up for Tiger to conquer. It's one of the most bizarre phenomenons I've ever seen. My mom is super smart and it really doesn't dawn on her that other golfers aren't zombies with stories that could also inspire if you took the time to learn them.  

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5 hours ago, edjr said:

It's the reverse Larry Bird effect.

I know I've said it here before, but when I was in Boston in the late 80s I ended up drinking next to Bob Ryan in Faneuil Hall after a Celts game.  After a few beverages I made this comment about Bird.  He looked like he wanted to throw down with me.  :D

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4 minutes ago, Fumbleweed said:

What's interesting about Tiger is how people who follow golf primarily to follow him feel about the other golfers. My mother, for example, is a huge Tiger fan and talks about all of his personal struggles and how she wants him to overcome them. When I point out to her that other golfers have struggles and cool back-stories, too, she is almost incredulous. It's like Tiger fans see all the other golfers as the Washington Generals and Tiger as the Globetrotters. They're just props set up for Tiger to conquer. It's one of the most bizarre phenomenons I've ever seen. My mom is super smart and it really doesn't dawn on her that other golfers aren't zombies with stories that could also inspire if you took the time to learn them.  

Interesting take.  His early career was pretty intriguing.  First black golfer to _________________., and __________ and so on. 

But I have a hard time mustering up much sympathy for his whoring around and getting busted.  I also suspect he was on the roids.  He and ARod had that same doctor. 

If so, the roids likely contributed to some of his health problems.  

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16 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yeah no comparison to Orville Moody. Tommy Aaron.  Charles Coody. Dave Marr. Lou Graham.

Yes you are so right.  In Jacks day there were NEVER any no names to win majors.  These guys are all legends.

 

Fair enough. Find me equivalents of Palmer, Seve, Watson, Player and Trevino in the early 2000s. Each with 5 or more majors. Let me save you the trouble. You cannot. The case is closed.

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Tiger's a solid #2 alltime. He's great. He's just not the best ever. Maybe he will be but he has to pass Jack for that. Until he does, he's #2.

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21 hours ago, sderk said:

Chicks wanted his money. "Chicks" wanted him. 

"Chicks" = Ugly broke waitresses.

Boy, you sure seem jealous of a black man.  :lol:

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2 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Boy, you sure seem jealous of a black man.  :lol:

Yeah. That's what it must be. 

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28 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I know I've said it here before, but when I was in Boston in the late 80s I ended up drinking next to Bob Ryan in Faneuil Hall after a Celts game.  After a few beverages I made this comment about Bird.  He looked like he wanted to throw down with me.  :D

Another good writer gone liberally insane. It's sad.  Peter Gammons is the worst of em all.

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2 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Bitterness? You sound like the stereo typical butt hurt Tiger fan who's not even made it out their 20's yet.

The top 3 mark was a direct reference to the discussion - not some shot.

And where? Everywhere. I've been playing for over 40 years, 2 to 3 times a week for over 20 years - I see and hear it all the time in the golf circles I travel. What I seldom hear is those who think golf was invented in 1997 ever recognize Jack.

Oh the youth joke.  Bitterness continues.  

I said jacks 18 and numerous 2nd is impressive and Tiger fans respect it.  You know the discussion is how old vs new is handling this.   Then you come with the exact numbers randomly for no real reason other than being defensive.

We dont hear the same things and Im closer to the youth and Tiger era fans than you are.  Ive played golf for 25 years and play 2 times a week.  None of my friends, a few raging Tiger fan...ever down what Jack did.  Actually most are amazed by the number 18.  They didnt see it.  But they have seen Tiger win at an alarming rate and to know he was still 4 short for years amazed them and still does.  Everyone respects what Jack did.  We must have completey different experiences.  

But call me names and stay on your defensive mode.  You prove my point.

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2 hours ago, vuduchile said:

I don't really see anyone denying Tiger's greatness on the course.  He was absolutely dominant at times.  That cannot be denied.  That doesn't mean I have to like him or root for him.  I don't and I won't.  

No you dont.  But people hate Tiger and clouds their judgement.

Sderk. Posty.  Prime examples.  

Others here down play last weekend when they wrote him off completely not long ago.  Other run straight to Jacks defense when there is no one attacking him.

I get it though.  Jack is done playing.  His fans and people that hate Tiger will go overboard in defense of his legacy.

 

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24 minutes ago, sderk said:

Yeah. That's what it must be. 

Seems like every post you have in this thread is about Tiger shtupping some cheap waitresses a decade ago.  A lot of vitriol in your posts.  Just saying.  :dunno:

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1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Seems like every post you have in this thread is about Tiger shtupping some cheap waitresses a decade ago.  A lot of vitriol in your posts.  Just saying.  :dunno:

I guess I got nothing else to say about the dude. I mean, why all the hype?

Any sport where a guy like John Daly can win championships in, isn't a sport. ;)

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1 hour ago, vuduchile said:

Interesting take.  His early career was pretty intriguing.  First black golfer to _________________., and __________ and so on. 

But I have a hard time mustering up much sympathy for his whoring around and getting busted.  I also suspect he was on the roids.  He and ARod had that same doctor. 

If so, the roids likely contributed to some of his health problems.  

No one is claiming to have sympathy.  This reminds me of what a co-worker (you guessed it who doesnt like Tiger) saod to me.   I brought his comeback route.  He says "he brought that on himself"

Well partly "no duh".  That isnt thr point.  The fact is he was taking chipping lessons from Stricker before an event.  He didnt play in any majors for 2 years in a row, missing many others.  Several injuries to every part of his body.   Went from the top to people thinking he had zero chance of even comepeting out on tour.  

Fact is that happened.  All of it.  And then he worked hi way back and won thr Masters.  You dont have to feel sorry for him to acknowledge what just went down the last 2 3 4 years.

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56 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Fair enough. Find me equivalents of Palmer, Seve, Watson, Player and Trevino in the early 2000s. Each with 5 or more majors. Let me save you the trouble. You cannot. The case is closed.

Ive went over this before.  And im not saying Tiger is better.  You cant really compare eras in any sport.  Not even the argument Im having in this thread. 

But to talk with basic logic I would say...would the fact that many guys won multiple time be a prime example of it being easier to win back then and the cream rising the the top.?

-technology over the year has made it easier for more pros to win.  Narrowed the gap.  Less technology meant the very best could separate themselves.  Is that not logical?

-in any sport ever you would say players have gotten better over time.  Expect for people on your side of the fence on this.  Back in the 50s 60s and even 70s not all the guys even made it to the British Open.  A lot of Euros didnt come over to America to play in the other 3 majors.  Golf has gotten more and more popular spanning many more countries.  Molinari from Italy for example.  More talent is found and given a chance.  More tours to get players ready.  

It is simple logic to expect players to be better as years go on.  

 

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Bill Russell won 11 championships

Wooden coached UCLA to 10 in 12 years

Most people say these guys were great.  All timers.  And most would concede that it was probably easier to win back then.  Cream rised.  Those 2 marks are basically impossible in today's world.

But when it comes to this golf stuff no one can concede that.  Logic isnt used.  Players actually have gotten much worse and their is less competition.  

Some how.

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Jesus you people will argue about anything. :lol:

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7 minutes ago, edjr said:

Jesus you people will argue about anything. :lol:

You couldn't be more wrong, dumbass :wave:

  • Haha 1

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