Fears of a second civil war grow among democrat & republican pundits

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Well, it is certain that 1/19/21 is the date for the next right wing action.  I would expect it to be much larger and nationwide.  State capitols again.  Maybe corporate and media headquarters.

[Voltaire 4,558]

1 hour ago, naomi said:

This part went  Rephrase, please.

Maybe the left and right would agree to a divorce. I know if California and/or New York had wanted to secede during the Trump administration, I'd have been  with no hard feelings whatsoever. Perhaps the left would feel the same way were red states to want to secede. It'd take a constitutional amendment and a great deal of negotiation. If they don't, if they keep us around, we're liable to re-install President Trump or somebody like him on their asses and I know that they don't want that.

Just go. Leave. We have two different realities and irreconcilable differences. I look at these next four years with nausea which is how they felt these past four years. Neither needs that. Split the country in two peacefully without violence. I know that I have my shoes on.

[nobody 2,037]

Social media is really sad.  It amplifies the echo chamber effect and really distorts people's perceptions.

[naomi 343]

Thanks for the clarification, Volty.

You might enjoy this if you're able to see it:

Tom Woods on the reasonableness of secession. I'm about a third in (started a couple days ago, about to pick it back up) and have been wondering if he's going to speak to the difficulty of negotiating resources.

JustinCharge, I hear what you're saying, but if you absorb what their vision is, and what fronts they're active on, and try to grasp the influence they currently hold, it seems like things are on the trajectory they clearly want. But I might respond again later with a more thoughtful reply. I'd prefer to be too tinfoil hat on the reset.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

6 hours ago, naomi said:

JustinCharge, I hear what you're saying, but if you absorb what their vision is, and what fronts they're active on, and try to grasp the influence they currently hold, it seems like things are on the trajectory they clearly want. But I might respond again later with a more thoughtful reply. I'd prefer to be too tinfoil hat on the reset.

as i said, the communist leaders had ideas and goals in 1917.  in the end it was swept away by a guy named stalin just running a brutal dictatorship with no plan beyond eliminating internal threats.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

3 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

as i said, the communist leaders had ideas and goals in 1917.  in the end it was swept away by a guy named stalin just running a brutal dictatorship with no plan beyond eliminating internal threats.

You know, I think the civil war already is under way, only it's not happening like you thought it would.

The war began when Clownzo came into power and spent four years bitterly dividing the country, emboldening the extremes, with Antifa and BLM rising up on the left and the racist hate groups such as the Proud Boys and Boogaloo forming on the right.

What neither side saw coming were the moderates, independent thinkers who grew tired of the noisy extremes. They grew tired of the summer violence. They grew tired of the alt-right rhetoric and intolerance as that group moved farther and farther away from the center, clinging to infortainment sources that churned out blatantly wrong information that affirmed their beliefs. Those on the left devoured the likes of MSNBC and CNN, buying into liberal opinions rather than unbiased facts.

Our Gettysburg and battle for the nation's soul came Nov. 4, when the moderates rose up and took a side, that being evicting Clownzo from the White House.

Myriad battles followed as the Clownzo loyalists desperately clung to hope that somehow their boy would prevail. These battles were fought in court, with Clownzo and his loyalists suffering one staggering defeat after another at the hands of federal judges he appointed and thought were allies.

The battle of political attrition continued until it became clear it was the loyalists vs. a growing army of everything to the left of themselves. 

Clownzo's last-gasp call of action was to whip his followers into a frenzy and display their might last Wednesday. They came by the thousands - many of them heavily armed - and descended on the Capitol, crashing into our cradle of democracy, terrorizing Congress and the vice president and briefly halting confirmation proceedings.

But their efforts had the opposite effect. Congress returned to chambers and confirmed Biden as president. Conservatives Vice President Pence, Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham, among others, had turned their backs on Clownzo and joined his enemies in the civil war, leaving only the Seditious 16 to fight for the cause.

In the wake of the Capitol insurrection, the isolation of the alt-right continued. Twitter permanently banned Clownzo. Facebook suspended him until after the inauguration. Apple, Google and Amazon pulled the plug on Parler. Big businesses announced they would not be contributing money to the seditious G.O.P. members.

Now, the civil war is winding down, and the alt-righties have lost, the party they love left in tatters thanks Clownzo and his four years of jaw-dropping, self-serving actions that deeply hurt and embarrassed this country.

Let this serve as a lesson to never again let a narcissistic wanna-be despot into the White House.

Let the reconstruction begin!

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

No one read that. Maybe civil war guy. 

[TheNewGirl 1,028]

16 minutes ago, Rusty Syringes said:

 

Let this serve as a lesson to never again let a narcissistic wanna-be despot into the White House.

 

You realize to BE a politician in general you have to have a certain level of narcissism? 

Grandiosity

Success

Uniqueness

Admiration

Entitlement 

Lack of Empathy 

Explotative

Envious 

Domineering 

Ironically, these are the same traits seen in sociopaths, psychopaths, and serial killers. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

47 minutes ago, Rusty Syringes said:

The war began when Clownzo came into power and spent four years bitterly dividing the country, emboldening the extremes, with Antifa and BLM rising up on the left and the racist hate groups such as the Proud Boys and Boogaloo forming on the right.

LOL, yeah, that's when it started.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, yeah, that's when it started.  

I remember when police officers were being assassinated  for political purposes during the Obama admin. Rusty does not. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I remember when police officers were being assassinated  for political purposes during the Obama admin. Rusty does not. 

Yeah, he just pretends it didn't start under the Obama administration.  It makes him feel better about his white guilt.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

54 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

You realize to BE a politician in general you have to have a certain level of narcissism? 

Grandiosity

Success

Uniqueness

Admiration

Entitlement 

Lack of Empathy 

Explotative

Envious 

Domineering 

Ironically, these are the same traits seen in sociopaths, psychopaths, and serial killers. 

Acreed!

[GutterBoy 2,281]

Why does Rusty keep calling Trump "Clownzo"?  Is he looking for a laugh here?

[TheNewGirl 1,028]

4 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Why does Rusty keep calling Trump "Clownzo"?  Is he looking for a laugh here?

I don't know, but it's annoying. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

I'm  pretty sure George Orwell wrote a book warning us about this... Just sayin

 

 

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

I swear this is an episode of Man in the high castle.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

7 minutes ago, Cloaca du jour said:

I'm  pretty sure George Orwell wrote a book warning us about this... Just sayin

 

 

Older sibling who identifies as male is watching you. 

[RLLD 3,455]

The divisions in this nation were exacerbated by Obama, he really fed the divisions and ensured people distrusted each other, Trump did not help much.

[t.j 35]

14 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Maybe the left and right would agree to a divorce. I know if California and/or New York had wanted to secede during the Trump administration, I'd have been  with no hard feelings whatsoever. Perhaps the left would feel the same way were red states to want to secede. It'd take a constitutional amendment and a great deal of negotiation. If they don't, if they keep us around, we're liable to re-install President Trump or somebody like him on their asses and I know that they don't want that.

Just go. Leave. We have two different realities and irreconcilable differences. I look at these next four years with nausea which is how they felt these past four years. Neither needs that. Split the country in two peacefully without violence. I know that I have my shoes on.

I know you really hate liberals, but that makes zero geographical and practical sense. It's not just that, like I said before, the division is less at a state level than a city vs urban level (and even within those it's not a clean divide). And even if it were, you're taking about blue states separated over vast distances by red states.

But more than that, now that we've begun to deplete our natural resources, made enemies of much of the world and said fock you to our allies, racked up debt, and rapidly increased our population, the best things the United States really has going for it are geographical security and military superiority. You divide up the country and you lose both of those.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

2 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Why does Rusty keep calling Trump "Clownzo"?  Is he looking for a laugh here?

My pet theory is he is using a unique identifier so that its much easier to google and find his posts / this forum.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

14 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Maybe the left and right would agree to a divorce. I know if California and/or New York had wanted to secede during the Trump administration, I'd have been  with no hard feelings whatsoever. Perhaps the left would feel the same way were red states to want to secede. It'd take a constitutional amendment and a great deal of negotiation. If they don't, if they keep us around, we're liable to re-install President Trump or somebody like him on their asses and I know that they don't want that.

Just go. Leave. We have two different realities and irreconcilable differences. I look at these next four years with nausea which is how they felt these past four years. Neither needs that. Split the country in two peacefully without violence. I know that I have my shoes on.

There's a thread on this other forum started 1/8/21 about secession.  16 pages already.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/3233434-only-option-going-forward-secession.html

[Rusty Syringes 478]

22 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

My pet theory is he is using a unique identifier so that its much easier to google and find his posts / this forum.

God forbid anyone get called or go by a nickname around here.

[Fnord 1,137]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:02 PM, Voltaire said:

I read this a while ago but never commented and want to get back to it. Do people in your organization get hired, promoted, or treated differently based on ideology or the color of their skin or is it merit based? To my understanding of it, woke organizations are not color blind, they are color obsessed and those employees that don’t buy in are bullied, passed over for promotion, intimidated into silence and not hired in the first place.

 If I were a leading researcher in your field, knowing that I support President Trump and think their hiring practices are bullsh1t, would I be offered a job? How about if I were a 23 y/o cisgendered white male fresh out of school?

Political conversation within the work place is frowned upon. Anyone with a social media feed that wants to be involved in politics is expressly forbidden to bring their place of employment into the conversation. Political work of any kind is forbidden on company property. Your political beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with the hiring or promotion process. Promotion is merit based, but interviews are given a ton of weight in the selection process.

If you were a leading researcher in your field you'd have an excellent chance of being hired, and likely coddled, by my org, regardless of all other considerations, as long as you weren't a known POS. If you were a 23 y/o cis white man, you'd have just as good of a chance of getting hired as anyone else, all other things (CV, education level/grades, letters of recommendation, relevant experience, etc) being equal. I could certainly see someone with lesser bona fides being hired over someone with a better CV based on the interview. But in all likelihood that would favor white, American-born individuals with English as their primary language.

[Fnord 1,137]

18 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Look at how Stalin ran the USSR.  You would think he would promote the best people into positions of power to make the nation run like a well-oiled machine. Nope.  He would identify the best and brightest young up-and-comers and KILL them because they represented a threat that would take his power.  He just wanted idiots in charge of anything because they were no threat.

Do you happen to see any parallels from this statement to the way Trump operated for his whole term? If not, well...

[Fnord 1,137]

23 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Woke is a giant problem, no matter what FNord says. I wouldn’t pay much attention to what any leftist has to say about the matter. 

How about you articulate what the giant problem is? Most 'woke' people (and there really aren't as many as you and others are led to believe there are) consider the 'problem' to be that a bunch of bigots can't just go about continuing to be bigots without being shamed for it. You don't strike me as a bigot, so what's the big fukin problem?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

28 minutes ago, Fnord said:

How about you articulate what the giant problem is? Most 'woke' people (and there really aren't as many as you and others are led to believe there are) consider the 'problem' to be that a bunch of bigots can't just go about continuing to be bigots without being shamed for it. You don't strike me as a bigot, so what's the big fukin problem?

Woke culture makes it okay to discriminate. Look at what a Biden just said, that minority businesses affected by Covid will be the priority for relief. WTF? 

[Gladiators 1,904]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Woke culture makes it okay to discriminate. Look at what a Biden just said, that minority businesses affected by Covid will be the priority for relief. WTF? 

Yep. I mentioned to a couple of my other business partners today that it may be in our best interest to bring a black woman into the ownership group. No qualifications required.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

4 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Yep. I mentioned to a couple of my other business partners today that it may be in our best interest to bring a black woman into the ownership group. No qualifications required.

And Woke has also ruined television and movies. Every Fockin one of them preach at us now. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

47 minutes ago, Fnord said:

How about you articulate what the giant problem is? Most 'woke' people (and there really aren't as many as you and others are led to believe there are) consider the 'problem' to be that a bunch of bigots can't just go about continuing to be bigots without being shamed for it. You don't strike me as a bigot, so what's the big fukin problem?

woke is a code word for being racist against white people in the minds of far far too many people.  If you are woke, you are a racist in their minds.  if that continues, you will get war.  people will rather die fighting than live in a woke culture.  if you want woke culture to succeed, you'll have to kill everyone with a gun.  and it sounds like we're about 8 days from open warfare.

[tubby_mcgee 686]

59 minutes ago, Fnord said:

How about you articulate what the giant problem is? Most 'woke' people (and there really aren't as many as you and others are led to believe there are) consider the 'problem' to be that a bunch of bigots can't just go about continuing to be bigots without being shamed for it. You don't strike me as a bigot, so what's the big fukin problem?

The problem is, the woke crowd won't listen to the common sense crowd, and the common sense crowd won't listen to the woke crowd...so yeah.  Civil war is the only thing that can get us all to agree. 
If one side is bloodied and dead, pretty easy to get them to agree. 

 

Don Lemon will end up a slave.

[Voltaire 4,558]

4 hours ago, t.j said:

I know you really hate liberals, but that makes zero geographical and practical sense. It's not just that, like I said before, the division is less at a state level than a city vs urban level (and even within those it's not a clean divide). And even if it were, you're taking about blue states separated over vast distances by red states.

But more than that, now that we've begun to deplete our natural resources, made enemies of much of the world and said fock you to our allies, racked up debt, and rapidly increased our population, the best things the United States really has going for it are geographical security and military superiority. You divide up the country and you lose both of those.

No, let me clarify and get this straight. I had been a swing voter who mostly feel in line with the Dems until Trump came along. I can handle liberals. I voted for Obama twice, before him Kerry and Gore..  I'm glad the Republican's attempt to scrap Obamacare failed. I still despise George W. Bush and only merely dislike Joe Biden*. It shocks me how the intensity of my disdain for Bush has waned now that "Woke" has arrived. Being asleep on 9/11 and two wars fought on borrowed money along with tax cuts targeting the wealthy and corporations and he can fock himself.  

So, no. It isn't liberals. I don't mind arguing about tax rates and health care and immigration. I use to have a half dozen policies I agreed with Dems on and six I'd agree with the GOP. Both parties are equally complicit in exporting jobs overseas and hollowing out America. The GOP, despite their rhetoric, has been more irresponsible on deficit matters than the Dems. Budget deficits had been a top priority of mine until five minutes ago. When the George Washington statues were toppled, I re-evaluted things to put culture and tradition first, front and center. I use to get bent out of shape over Creationism in public schools and made many posts in this forum arguing against it.  Woke is a hundred zillion to the infinity power worse than creationism. My mistake. Although my position on Creationism hasn't changed any, I absolutely do not care anymore. I apologize a trillion times over. Bring back the fundie teachers, please.

It's the left that I can't stand. Bashing America, tearing down statues, enflaming racial division, blowing up the nuclear family, bashing the police, pissing on our cultures and traditions. The scumball QB of my former favorite football team knelt for the national anthem on Thanksgiving. "Hey, all you kids out there watching, your police are racist and your country sucks ass." That's all new and too few care. The only thing I blame liberals for is embracing them. Liberals have no immune resistance to "Woke". They just roll over like the dipsh*t chancellor at the University of Missouri did, alongside mayors like those in Portland and Seattle. If you complain about this stuff online, you get banned. Us people who actually support the first amendment didn't and would have never dreamed of supressing the speech of "Woke" on the way up but now that "Woke" runs everything, they don't mind doing so on us.  

"Woke" is cancerous rot that destroys and consumes all. I just want to salvage the parts of the country that it hasn't infested. You talk of geographical security and militarty superiority, I'm telling you the enemy inside is worse than any enemy outside. If everybody hates their country and the beliefs and traditions that use to bind us, what are we defending against?

[JustinCharge 2,397]

the left has no end game.  if they continue to pursue their current course of action, they are looking at open warfare with 80 million trump supporters most of them armed in a nationwide guerrilla action that will never end.  most of the democrat leaders in government, media, and academia will be hunted down and shot in guerrilla actions in the war the democrats are spurring on.  they will never be able to walk the streets safely again, even if they technically control most of the infrastructure.  they will need to hide with armed guards the rest of their lives.

moral of the story:  dont tell 80 million armed people they are terrorists and threaten their existence.

[t.j 35]

54 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

...

So, no. It isn't liberals. ...

It's the left that I can't stand. ...

... You talk of geographical security and militarty superiority, I'm telling you the enemy inside is worse than any enemy outside. If everybody hates their country and the beliefs and traditions that use to bind us, what are we defending against?

That's my mistake for mixing up left and liberal. Mostly because you were speaking in terms of halves---i.e. you also said "Just go. Leave. We have two different realities and irreconcilable differences." and "Split the country in two peacefully without violence."--but most people are not left or right.

What your post doesn't clarify clarify is the part I was actually interested in, which is what "Maybe the left and right would agree to a divorce" might look like.

[Voltaire 4,558]

18 minutes ago, t.j said:

That's a valid clarification about what you can't stand. However it doesn't at all clarify the part I was interested in, which is what "Maybe the left and right would agree to a divorce" might look like.

Well, ideally it'd be done county to county as what we're dealing with is mostly an urban/rural divide with suburbs varying one way or the other. But state by state would suffice. Obviously the nation and states and communities are intertwined very closely, a yin/yang arrangement with blue counties in red states and red counties in blue states. Open borders for citizens and legal immigrants (not for illegals) and free trade and local cooperation, much of this would be as the EU does it. Crossing in and out back and forth, no problem as is. That would be a nightmare to regulate and totally unnecessary. But different laws decided by different elected officials and judged in different courts all the way up through different foreign policies and different presidents.

[t.j 35]

7 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Well, ideally it'd be done county to county as what we're dealing with is mostly an urban/rural divide with suburbs varying one way or the other. But state by state would suffice. Obviously the nation and states and communities are intertwined very closely, a yin/yang arrangement with blue counties in red states and red counties in blue states. Open borders for citizens and legal immigrants and free trade and local cooperation, much of this would be as the EU does it. But different laws decided by different elected officials and judged in different courts all the way up through different foreign policies and different presidents.

So the west coast, the northeast, the Great Lakes, and Georgia are one country, and everything in between all of those regions is another? That makes zero sense.

[Voltaire 4,558]

23 minutes ago, t.j said:

So the west coast, the northeast, the Great Lakes, and Georgia are one country, and everything in between all of those regions is another? That makes zero sense.

I just got done putting up some scaffolding on what it would look like if done at a county by county level which is even more complicated.

State by state would be easier to work and understand since we have 40 that could easily be classified one way or the other blue/red and only ten that would be purple and need to figure it out.

And what makes zero sense? I want to inflict Trump on you and you don't want that. Horrible! Terrible! You want to teach my kids to tear down George Washington statues, that the country sucks, that the first amendment doesn't matter, that cops are evil, and I absolutely do not want anything to do with that.  I think it makes perfect sense. You can bring about your glorious androgynous, copless, socialist paradise without us around mucking it up on you. All we do is get in your way. We can just wish each other luck and go our separate ways.

[Hawkeye21 1,853]

19 minutes ago, t.j said:

So the west coast, the northeast, the Great Lakes, and Georgia are one country, and everything in between all of those regions is another? That makes zero sense.

None of it makes sense. 

[t.j 35]

17 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

And what makes zero sense?

The whole thing.

17 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

I want to inflict Trump on you and you don't want that.

No problem, he lost, he's out.

18 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

You want to teach my kids to tear down George Washington statues, that the country sucks, that the first amendment doesn't matter, that cops are evil

Wrong on all counts.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,633]

4 minutes ago, t.j said:

The whole thing.

No problem, he lost, he's out.

Wrong on all counts.

If you’re on the left he’s right. That’s who they are now. You too if you’re with them 

[Fnord 1,137]

Sad. Watching people that normally seem to be decent, normal American citizens demonize each other over what is mostly imaginary transgressions amplified infinitely by the cancers of social media and politically biased national/ corporate media. Now everyone needs to be a radical zealot for one team or the other.

I reject it all. This is the USA godammit. We're better than this. Or we should be.