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Ray_T

Big Ben's leadership

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001024303/article/tomlin-has-no-problems-with-big-bens-leadership

 

Honestly I dont know how much of a story this truly is.  it might truly be a case of some sour grapes by two disgruntled former teammates.

But, since I am a bit bored at the moment I thought I'd see what some of the homers have to say about this issue.

Big Ben has put up above average to elite numbers over the course of his career.  I think hes earned the benefit of the doubt with respect to his leadership.

and I knew from day one that Bell was a bit of a bad egg (even if hes an extremely talented bad egg)  I hadnt heard much about Browns issues until last season, but at the end of the day, it is the QB who makes the offense run (for the most part).

anyhow, speak up everyone.  lets hear what you think.

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Ben Bell and Brown Re all D Bags.

Ben has 2 rings

Other 2 have zero

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I think Bell was all about the guaranteed money and I understand his issue, but also he had to look at it from the Steelers side.  He has been in trouble in past and not far away from a long suspension if he slips again.  I think he just bandwagoned on to AB's story to help his case, but in the end he looks like a complete idiot.  Lost a year of football, and lost a lot of money and ended up on a crap team.

Now for AB - his ego is so ridiculous, with all the TV shows and cameos he really thinks he is a movie star now and if anyone is not completely kissing his ass saying how great he is non-stop...then he is a bad leader.

As a Steeler fan I loved watching these guys, and I am equally as happy watching them walk out the door.

Also bold prediction.

 

Donte Moncrief...not Juju (who also will as well)......Donte Moncrief will have better stats at the end of the year than AB.  Boom.

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R Switzer will out perform Moncrief. 

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As a long time Steeler fan the argument of Ben being a good leader is ridiculous.    I hope that the next Steeler QB has 15 straight seasons without a losing record, and I won't care what other people think about his leadership ability.  

Ben's elite stats alone prove he is a good leader.

Wins 237, losses 77, 1 tie.

6th all time passing yards with 56,194.

6th all time wins for a QB.

7th all time passing TDs 363.

1st all time more than 450 yards passing in a game 6 times.  Marino held the record at four, Brady and Peyton have 3.

Never won a Super Bowl with Antonio Brown or Le'Veon Bell.  Won two without them.   All three are elite talent, but the three B chemistry never manifested into a ring.

 

 

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You don’t find leadership in stats.  

You do find performance, but posting good stats doesn’t make for a good leader.  

With the talent that the Steelers have had, they have been a great underachieving team. 

And that in its self might show some weakness in Bens leadership ability, and a very poor coached team. 

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15 hours ago, weepaws said:

You don’t find leadership in stats.  

You do find performance, but posting good stats doesn’t make for a good leader.  

With the talent that the Steelers have had, they have been a great underachieving team. 

And that in its self might show some weakness in Bens leadership ability, and a very poor coached team. 

Well, you are correct.  You do not find leadership in stats.   

The press often labels someone as a leader just because they get lots of yards or score lots of TDs.   

That being said,  Rothlisberger is one of those players who found success early in his career, winning 2 superbowls.

As QB you are naturally the leader of the offense.  You call the plays, make audibles at the line, and in some cases actually point out coverages for your team pre snap.

some people will win, and then become spoiled by their success.   Others once they find a way to win, just keep winning.

its hard to say what is the case with Rothlisberger, but I will say one thing:   He, Bell, and Brown all have huge egos.    When things go well, the egos likely can coexist.  But when they do not, I"m certain there is a certain amount of clashing of egos that becomes undesireable.

I have no doubt that both Bell and Brown thought they were the most important piece of the puzzle.  There is little doubt of that.

once Bell was replaced and his replacement did well, I was pretty sure he was on his way out.

As for Brown:

The steelers have had their share of Diva WR's in their day.   and every time one makes a nuisance of himself and finds himself on another team, his stats drop off.  To me this suggests that Rothlisberger made them good WR's.   NOT the other way around.

While I do feel the Steelers made the right call, I also wanted to hear some other opinions on the matter.  

To that end I started the thread.

For those of you who participated, I thank you all.   good talk.     and if anyone else wants to make comment, that comment will still be welcomed.

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Tom Brady has great leadership traits. But when the Pats gets someone who starts being selfish and causes disruption, they get rid of that guy. Rothlisberger is a top notch QB. He was not the one responsible to fix Brown's or Bell's issues.

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1 hour ago, sderk said:

Tom Brady has great leadership traits. But when the Pats gets someone who starts being selfish and causes disruption, they get rid of that guy. Rothlisberger is a top notch QB. He was not the one responsible to fix Brown's or Bell's issues.

agreed.  it is not Rothlisbergers fault.   A player is responsible for their own behaviour.  and if management lets players get away with it, it sets the culture for the team and the dressing room.    This is why the pats have stayed on top.   a player becomes a diva, they trade him away. plain and simple.

if you go back in time, there are past WR's on this team (walllace, Bryant) who had their best years of their career playing with Rothlisberger.  I suspect there are others out there.   

but in general when you see this, and then said player moves on to another team and their stats are down from where they were, that speaks to the team and/or the QB being responsible for those stats.  not the player.

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 True but those stats that those WRs produce while playing with Ben, doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. 

 

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24 minutes ago, weepaws said:

 True but those stats that those WRs produce while playing with Ben, doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. 

 

no, but it does likely say the QB or the offensive system is better than the new team who was unable to produce the same results.

We will likely never know how good a leader Rothlisberger truly is.   But I'd expect hes a better leader than the two players who just left (Brown and Bell)

I acknowledge the bar there is pretty low.   But if the team felt the fault was with Ben, there is a good chance they would have dumped him instead.

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No I don’t agree, a team isn’t likely to say good bye to a Qb with his talent. 

Can’t say it’s all his fault that those players left the Steelers, but that they did and where willing to go play for another Qbs that at this time aren’t as good as Ben says a lot.  

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

No I don’t agree, a team isn’t likely to say good bye to a Qb with his talent. 

Can’t say it’s all his fault that those players left the Steelers, but that they did and where willing to go play for another Qbs that at this time aren’t as good as Ben says a lot.  

It says they are divas and not team players. Nothing of it is Ben's fault. The Steelers always seem to draft good receivers. Why? Because Ben knows how to lead an offense and he makes them good. Which makes Ben a very good leader on the field.

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No it says he’s a very good Qb on the field, that doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. 

A leader, leads on and off the field, production does not = leadership. 

 

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44 minutes ago, weepaws said:

No it says he’s a very good Qb on the field, that doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. 

A leader, leads on and off the field, production does not = leadership. 

 

Sure. It's Ben's fault Bell has family friends and agents in his ears telling him to hold out. And it's Ben's fault that Brown whines about not getting 90% of passes thrown his way and that he films team meetings in the locker room and posts them online and whines for more money.

I blame you then for your lack of leadership in the religious/spiritual world for not turning this forum into a Christian sports reading room.

  • Haha 2

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well,  you also need to look at the source of the complaint.  

2 malcontents.  one of which (Bell) had a bad reputation almost from day one.    The other, going so far, hes likely discredited himself with his online rants and demands.

compared to those guys, Ben looks like a Saint.   I know when he was a younger man he sure wasnt one.   Tough to say if hes cleaned it up as hes aged or if hes just kept a lower profile.

Either way, As Ben has won the team 2 superbowls I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.    But I do think it would be prudent for the coaching staff to start looking into a succession plan.   Given Ben's Age, I dont know how much time he legitimately has left.   My thought is once a QB passes the age of 35, the decline can start at any time.   

Sometimes that is a decline in skills.  sometimes it's the body wearing down (injuries)  But after 36 years of age, it can literally happen at any time.

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I would argue that Ben only won the team one Super Bowl, did you see Qb rating in the first super bowl vs the Seahawks. 

If he didn’t have a good passing wr in Randal el and the refs on his side they would have lost his first super bowl. 

 

 

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On 4/1/2019 at 5:46 PM, weepaws said:

 True but those stats that those WRs produce while playing with Ben, doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. 

 

No.  But Brown quitting on the team does prove hes a terrible teammate.

There is the one fact of this situation.

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I would agree with that, and Bell, him sitting out last season was quitting on his teammates. 

Cant recall a time when I saw two super star players do this. 

Both proved to be terrible teammates, but guess what, another team picked them up. 

So neither of them really had anything to lose, they will both be playing this next season, and getting paid even though they quit. 

Only in the NFL. 

And yet fans will keep spending hours and hours watching the game and spending money to show their loyalty to a team and to individual players, and then pow they pack up and leave. 

Ive heard so called Steeler fans call sports shows, and saying how happy they are to see Bell and Brown leave, oh really come on, no your not, but hey keep buying their stuff and hoping for another super bowl and sitting around for hours on end watching a game the nfl keeps watering down. 

If not for ff  and stats I wouldn’t have any interest in the game. 

But I agree it does show how bad of teammates they where and will continue to be.  

Good luck Raiders and Jet fans, now go spend some money and time hoping for a winner  

just saw that Andre Hall a db for the Texans just retired at 26 years old, good for you young man, don’t sale your body to the wicked industry known as the nfl.  I hope and pray to see more player retire before the age of 27  and make something of their life’s, and not leave their body parts on the football field.  

With all that said I can’t wait to start a new ff season, 14 team non ppr, it’s going to kick butt  

thanks  

 

 

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