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wiffleball

Bible games, did Judas hang himself today?

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There's a school of thought based upon Corinthians saying that Jesus appeared to the 12 that I would say that Judas was still alive when Jesus rose from the dead.

 

Let's put that one aside. besides, it could have been cleared it in the tires who replaced Judas. Or it could just be a continuity error.

Biblically, better analysis tells us that Jesus died on a Thursday afternoon or evening. And that was at least 9 hours after being betrayed. So, did Judas kill himself before the crucifixion?

 

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According the Social Security administration 23 boys were named Judas in 2017, I'm guessing that name peaked around 32AD.

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1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

According the Social Security administration 23 boys were named Judas in 2017, I'm guessing that name peaked around 32AD.

Don't see many Adolph s anymore either.

The Next Generation probably won't have any Jussie's.

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1 hour ago, Drizzay said:

Anybody doubt Judas is in Heaven?

No way.. 

The Catholics hadn't even invented the magic sin wash box yet.

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4 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

No way.. 

The Catholics hadn't even invented the magic sin wash box yet.

But if Judas hadn't betrayed Christ, then nothing about the prophecy would have happened.

Is it possible Jesus told him to take one for the team?

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3 minutes ago, Drizzay said:

But if Judas hadn't betrayed Christ, then nothing about the prophecy would have happened.

Is it possible Jesus told him to take one for the team?

I'm just saying, the guys shoulda known something was up. in virtually every painting of the Last Supper, Judas is the one guy without a halo. - I mean geez, nobody picked up on that?  

But Judas at least got paid  - 30 pieces of silver. Frickin Pete - Denied Christ 3 times  - for nothing.  

 

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2 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Since the whole story is made up and Jesus likely didn't exist, I'll go with no. 

And Game of Thrones is a friggin documentary?

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Just now, wiffleball said:

And Game of Thrones is a friggin documentary?

They have roughly equal validity to my mind.

But if you're asking more from a literary sense than a historical one, fair enough. 

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As far as I'm concerned, if Mark Wahlberg hasn't done a movie about it, it didn't really happen. 

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12 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Since the whole story is made up and Jesus likely didn't exist, I'll go with no. 

Jesus did exist. The question is whether he was divine or not. HTH. 

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9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Jesus did exist. The question is whether he was divine or not. HTH. 

Agreed.  I never thought his actual existence was ever in question.  :dunno:

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In before kutulu posts Judas Priest.  :ninja:

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I think Judas made the right move, he got 30 pieces of silver for betraying a guy who HAS to FORGIVE him.   Judas FTW.

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1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

I think Judas made the right move, he got 30 pieces of silver for betraying a guy who HAS to FORGIVE him.   Judas FTW.

We all owe a huge debt to Judas for killing Jesus, so Jesus could die for our sins. I am sure Judas has been in heaven ever since.

 

I spent a childhood going to Sunday services; morning and night, as well as Wednesday Bible study meetings. I also mowed the church grounds and the yards for three house they owned, for free. I enjoy being completely religion free now. 

 

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The account in Matthew places Judas' suicide prior to Jesus' crucifixion...

Mat 27:1  Now when morning had come, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
Mat 27:2  and they bound him, and led him away, and delivered him up to Pontius Pilate, the governor.
Judas Hangs Himself
Mat 27:3  Then Judas, who betrayed him, when he saw that Jesus was condemned, felt remorse, and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4  saying, “I have sinned in that I betrayed innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? You see to it.”
Mat 27:5  He threw down the pieces of silver in the sanctuary, and departed. He went away and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6  The chief priests took the pieces of silver, and said, “It’s not lawful to put them into the treasury, since it is the price of blood.”
Mat 27:7  They took counsel, and bought the potter’s field with them, to bury strangers in.

In order for Jesus to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, ...

Mat 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

...that would put the deaths of both on Wednesday, just prior to dusk, (at which time it became Thursday in the manner of Jewish time).  6pm Thurs to 6pm Fri to 6pm Sat.  Sunday would begin at 6:01pm, so the resurrection happened sometime between 6:01pm and dawn, when the women came to the tomb.

As to Judas...

Mat 26:24  Indeed, the Son of Man goes, as it has been written about Him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It were good for him if that man was never born.

Joh 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that you gave me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas is mentioned as the son of perdition (in an unredeemable state).  The Matthew account notes his remorse, that Jesus was an innocent man, yet he makes no claim to Jesus being the Messiah or Son of God.  There is nothing written to have us believe that Judas is in "heaven."

Judas was the son of Simon the Zealot.  The Zealots were "righteously" opposed to Roman rule over Israel.  With the talk of the Messiah (King) walking among them, the Zealots were most interested in the new kingdom that would come to Israel and would remove Roman authority.  The Zealots were "headquartered" in, and around, Galilee at that time, where Jesus spent most of his last year.  Barclay teaches that Judas probably had political and kingdom motives in mind, believing that Jesus would reveal himself as the long-awaited Messiah that would bring Jewish rule to the earth.  Barclay argues the intentions of Judas were to simply speed up the process of bringing about the Messianic kingdom.  All of which could be true, but it didn't mean Judas was righteous with God.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Jesus did exist. The question is whether he was divine or not. HTH. 

There is absolutely no firsthand evidence of jesus' existence. Any writings that mention Jesus come from at least a century after his supposed death, And all are quite biased. 

Some historians argue that the biblical Jesus is more a composite of several preacher/teacher types who may have lives in Palestine of the time.

 

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1 minute ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

There is absolutely no firsthand evidence of jesus' existence. Any writings that mention Jesus come from at least a century after his supposed death, And all are quite biased. 

Some historians argue that the biblical Jesus is more a composite of several preacher/teacher types who may have lives in Palestine of the time.

 

Took a course in comparative religion one time. It's pretty amazing the crossover between multiple gods. Virgin birth came up consistently. Child of a God. Earthly resurrection. Resurrect the dead, etc. 

 would be grateful if somebody found an article About that.

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Can't vouch for this:

Here are names of Gods throughout history that were said to have been born by a virgin on 25th December.

HORUS
An Ethiopian-Sudanese God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 3,000 YEARS before Jesus.

BUDDHA
A Nepal God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 563 YEARS before Jesus.

KRISHNA 
An Indian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 900 YEARS before Jesus.

ZARATHUSTRA
An Iranian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 1,000 YEARS before Jesus.

HERCULES
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 800 YEARS before Jesus.

MITHRA
A Persian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin- 600 YEARS before Jesus.

DIONYSUS
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 500 YEARS before Jesus.

THAMMUZ
A Babylonian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 400 YEARS before Jesus.

HERMES
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 YEARS before Jesus.

ADONIS
A Phoenician God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 YEARS before Jesus.

JESUS CHRIST
A Roman God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 300 AD.

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4 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Took a course in comparative religion one time. It's pretty amazing the crossover between multiple gods. Virgin birth came up consistently. Child of a God. Earthly resurrection. Resurrect the dead, etc. 

 would be grateful if somebody found an article About that.

Here's one of many.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php%3Fpage%3Dmithras_and_christianity&ved=2ahUKEwjA1KzCx93hAhWfHDQIHXVBBkAQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw22AEhFiAGc_dtf2rOp3n8W&cshid=1555725118441

Christianity is basically a mishmash of mithraic and other stories grafted onto judaic principles.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can even make a cursory examination of the early church and the formation of the Bible and believe any of it. 

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8 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Here's one of many.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php%3Fpage%3Dmithras_and_christianity&ved=2ahUKEwjA1KzCx93hAhWfHDQIHXVBBkAQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw22AEhFiAGc_dtf2rOp3n8W&cshid=1555725118441

Christianity is basically a mishmash of mithraic and other stories grafted onto judaic principles.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can even make a cursory examination of the early church and the formation of the Bible and believe any of it. 

You don't believe in the Golden Rule? Or anything Jesus had to say? It's all non-sensical gibberish? 

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Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

You don't believe in the Golden Rule? Or anything Jesus had to say? It's all non-sensical gibberish? 

Of course not. Much of the message is good old common sense.

But then, the same is true of Aesop's fables. Doesn't mean I'm gonna go down to the tax free Temple of the tortise and the hare and theow down half my Sunday and 10% of my income though.

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12 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Here's one of many.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php%3Fpage%3Dmithras_and_christianity&ved=2ahUKEwjA1KzCx93hAhWfHDQIHXVBBkAQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw22AEhFiAGc_dtf2rOp3n8W&cshid=1555725118441

Christianity is basically a mishmash of mithraic and other stories grafted onto judaic principles.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can even make a cursory examination of the early church and the formation of the Bible and believe any of it. 

You should move to china and become a teacher. If you do, thank you....:thumbsup:

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2 minutes ago, sderk said:

You should move to china and become a teacher. If you do, thank you....:thumbsup:

Just yesterday I did a lesson on Easter. Ever try explaining that to people who have never heard it before?

Well, you see there was Jesus, and he died, and then Rose from the dead, and now we have this rabbit who brings us chocolate.

I mean, their holidays are every bit as silly, but damn.  

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 The chocolate from Rabbits is fine. But I damn sure avoid the rabbits raisins.

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Been awhile since I've been to church, but today is the day that Jesus was buried right? And then on Sunday, he rolled the stone aside, saw his shadow and what now?

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2 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Just yesterday I did a lesson on Easter. Ever try explaining that to people who have never heard it before?

Well, you see there was Jesus, and he died, and then Rose from the dead, and now we have this rabbit who brings us chocolate.

I mean, their holidays are every bit as silly, but damn.  

I agree that holiday traditions can get silly. But they are what they are. There are a bunch of people in areas in Africa that don't want to be introduced to various medications. Things you don't know anything about can be crazy. Black holes for example. What do your kids say about them? Or diffy Q. etc... 

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1 minute ago, wiffleball said:

Been awhile since I've been to church, but today is the day that Jesus was buried right? And then on Sunday, he rolled the stone aside, saw his shadow and what now?

Hey look, the cool guy is making fun of Christianity  again. You're one of a kind 

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6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Hey look, the cool guy is making fun of Christianity  again. You're one of a kind 

My thing is this.

Most guys here (you very much so HT) are very skeptical of any news source or story.

And fair enough. They've shown their bias and lies.

But you are far less skeptical of an ancient book with ridiculously obvious bias and holes.

I personally think religion is a natural stage of human progression that we have outgrown and should leave behind. The west more or less has. 

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38 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Can't vouch for this:

Here are names of Gods throughout history that were said to have been born by a virgin on 25th December.

HORUS
An Ethiopian-Sudanese God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 3,000 YEARS before Jesus.

BUDDHA
A Nepal God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 563 YEARS before Jesus.

KRISHNA 
An Indian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 900 YEARS before Jesus.

ZARATHUSTRA
An Iranian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 1,000 YEARS before Jesus.

HERCULES
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 800 YEARS before Jesus.

MITHRA
A Persian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin- 600 YEARS before Jesus.

DIONYSUS
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 500 YEARS before Jesus.

THAMMUZ
A Babylonian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 400 YEARS before Jesus.

HERMES
A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 YEARS before Jesus.

ADONIS
A Phoenician God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 YEARS before Jesus.

JESUS CHRIST
A Roman God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 300 AD.

hmm thats a good list, but I am positive its wrong

cause Jesus Christ wasn't born 300 AD

also he wasn't born on Dec 25

 

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6 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

My thing is this.

Most guys here (you very much so HT) are very skeptical of any news source or story.

And fair enough. They've shown their bias and lies.

But you are far less skeptical of an ancient book with ridiculously obvious bias and holes.

I personally think religion is a natural stage of human progression that we have outgrown and should leave behind. The west more or less has. 

Good for you. Teach this all you want to your Chinese kids. Doesn't make you right. Religion is deeper than what you make it. And you will most likely go back to it before your demise. 

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1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

hmm thats a good list, but I am positive its wrong

cause Jesus Christ wasn't born 300 AD

also he wasn't born on Dec 25

 

Very true. But wiffle doesn't pay much attention to detail.

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19 minutes ago, sderk said:

Good for you. Teach this all you want to your Chinese kids. Doesn't make you right. Religion is deeper than what you make it. And you will most likely go back to it before your demise. 

No I won't. I have my faults, but rank hypocrisy isn't one of em. 

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51 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

My thing is this.

Most guys here (you very much so HT) are very skeptical of any news source or story.

And fair enough. They've shown their bias and lies.

But you are far less skeptical of an ancient book with ridiculously obvious bias and holes.

I personally think religion is a natural stage of human progression that we have outgrown and should leave behind. The west more or less has. 

I feel a lot of the bashers point out the absurdity of Jonah and the Whale, Christ walking on water and the rest of the nonsense but never bother to make mention ion of the message, which is the whole point. Just because some guys hyped things up for sales shouldn't diminish the parts that are great for humanity to attempt to live up to. 

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On 4/18/2019 at 9:39 PM, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

 Jesus likely didn't exist,

🤔  How did you come to this conclusion?

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